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PvP (Red Meat) Lovers... Joy in the MMO Beat-Down?
So, PvP lovers… whats up? I am very curios what makes you tick. (holds microphone near interviewee) What’s the thrill? I just DO NOT get it in MMORPGs.
I swear I am not picking a fight here (bud-um-pshh) I am really being very straight. I am very much looking forward to Aion’s PvE and crafting and economy but getting ganked and ganking others will totally be on the side line for me.
No need to reply with some kind of “If you don’t like PvP your in the wrong game” bologna because I am coming over from Warhammer Online and that’s PvP all up in your grill. I just had a blast with all the PvE content and the “big boss” party raids. Sure I went down on the PvP field and spammed my best attacks and drank my best pots like good little troop should, and afterward i was like, " all righty then, I guess I should get back to looking for those sweet boots I heard drop around here."
So please understand that this is not a hater thread, I just really wanted to feel out the psychological profile of what makes a PvP’r tick.
Here is my personal reasons why I always found the PvP aspects of MMO’s strange. (* I understand & agree that end-game PvP is a different story.. so when everyone is all geared up to the max and max level, I fully understand that PvP can have its charm. It’s just all the 90% of PvP that preceeds that.)
1) Almost always the fight is a done deal before it even starts. There is no elaborate rock/paper/scissor dance… it’s just big fish take little fish (yay!)
2) You either have a higher level clean the clock of a lower level or you have a person with better gear smear a poor shmuck with average gear.
3) You have a small group run across a solo player that leads to a “Well, well, well, looks like someone got lost in the woods…mwahahah!”
So I know there is a little thrill to the whole “Haha, you just got jacked fool!” but mostly it’s a hollow victory, I mean its not like playing a fighting game like Street Fighter 4 where you are putting all your skills to the limit to put the other player down so you have reason to high-five yourself after the match.
Its like the 5th graders going over to the 3rd graders and pounding on them, then one of the 5th graders turning around to see and 8th grader tapping on his should and gulping real loud… then the high school junior comes and taps on the 8th grader and clears his throat loudly…you get the point.
So please help me see the fun in PvP for Aion, I would love to be proven wrong because I am not above changing my opinion about this matter, for I too would like to enjoy more of this aspect of the game, because up to now it has just been a, “Yup… you got me Mr. 20 levels above me…yawn… that’s ok I wanted to go back to town anyway to sell my junk.”
Comments
It's human beings being...well human beings.
Trying to show dominance over another is a sign of "strength".
for me personally ( im one of those people thats pvped in a game like wow till i had the rank of high warlord ) i pvp to see who i can beat and who i cant, how many can i stare down and still win without having to resort to kiting or running for life or just dieing while taking as many with my as i can. living breathing opponents are almost always more fun to fight then static dimwit ai who will react the same way 100% of the time. also when you see the same guy come at you a few times till hes figured out he just cant win and then you dont see him again you get that feeling you showed him good and cant help but smile like an evil little man =D
also if youve kept your pvp points up and have the gear you can theoretically hold your own vs people levels above you, maybe not 20 but 10 ya, and you cant see peoples level in aion pvp and since you can make your armor look different its not going to be easy to gaige someones stregnth in pvp till you hit them, considering the penalties for picking on lowbies if you find someone too lacking to be worth the fight youre better off leaving them be and not getting debuffed for when you find some real opponents, unless of course little j w sunofabitch wont leave you to your fun then by all means smack him down into his place on the food chain.
As a veteran of many competitive teams sports Ive found that pvp in mmo's fills my craving for competition. Win or lose, I like the challenge. Really PvE hasnt changed in like 10 years, and wasnt that challenging to begin with. Let me equate it with basketball, you can shoot hoops on your driveway and enjoy every second of it, more power to you. However some of us practice with the intent of going out and pitting our skills against other players.
Unfortunately unlike sports, you arent being pushed to harness your physically optimal conditioning, you are more or less being pushed into either cheating or spending huge amounts of time on your butt to get ahead.
Yes I hear you loud and clear... but that is not sticking with my O.P. That is why I dropped the Street Fighter 4 reference in for good measure. I am on XBOX live 50% of the time playing nothing but online matches. From FPS to fighting games I am all over it. In fact most of the time I never even play the story modes for games and instead go straight for the online aspect.
My specific reasons for the thread was the MMORPG PvP. for all the above reasons I stated.
I really don't enjoy PvP unless its over some sort of objective, like a keep or relics. When I want to progress my character I prefer to just PvE and do some dungeon crawling/treasure gathering.
When fighting for a keep or something though I feel like theirs a purpose to it. In DAoC for example their were alot of bonuses associated with owning keeps and relics, so i always found PvP exciting and meaningful.
I never really could get into just plain FFA or non-objective based pvp.
Its the the rush that it's your build vs there build and the winner gets what ever he want on your body. But sadly they just shut down the last ture pvp game Shadowbane no other game out there atm has a good pvp system besides DAOC but that has been broken as well for a few years since alantis exp pack.
Well in Aion you dont really loose anything nor win anything.. pvp is pointless.
Kids with several complexes and psychological issues will still find fun to gank people i guess.. but then those are not really pvpers. Just frustraded people venting their pain by annoying others.
PVP in wow especially arena is waiting for match to start .. your behind closed doors and your waiting ..... hands have a little tremble .... TS gets a bit loud and the buzz starts ... lets hope Aion holds the same trepidation ..... the feeling yer either gonna get yer ass kicked ... or your going to kick ass
the unknown factor. its the start of any fps match or pvp or anything with team based players all wating for th eDing! round 1 feeling .. then its all a qucik blur and digest afterwards.
I like pvp and pve. Each feature offers a diferent chanlenge, as long both have a objective and be made in group.
About AION, only time will tell, but i hope PvP have some objective, not just win a fight against a enemy, but set up a group and go for some PvP that helps my faction in some way while having fun, yes, its in my plans.
And i just hope they increase the benifits to a faction when dominate the Abyss Fortress, so this way some legions can speak this way sometimes: "ok guys, today we all go to conquer a fortress, our faction need it".
Maybe im dreaming a little, but hey, dream is not a sin.
But for this , is not only about game rules/features, its all about comunity too.... lets see how is going to be.
PvE is cool too, exploring that part is also on my plans.
2 things i dont like it in AION about this matter (i might be wrong, will see when i get there):
- Personal Abyss rank shouldnt exist, it sould be Legions rank.
- Everyone attack fortress but noone defend it, so it seams fortress raid is more pve then pvp.
Anyway, i just want to start playing 9:30 hours to go.............
))))
The points 1) and 2) are of course unwanted game feautres for PVP game. To make PVP worthy, all need to have access to same equippment and chances to win the fight. Rock-paper-scissors mechanics and gear simply don't allow it.
Point no. 3 is just a layer of the PVP. It is not only stand face to face to your enemy bashing buttons but also ability and skill to pick your target, pick a place and time of the engagement.
Why to PVP?
The trajectory of the ball striked against the wall won't suprise you much, does it?
There are so many reasons to enjoy open pvp it's hard to narrow them down to core ideas. I played EVE for a number of years and some others before then plus some obligatory wow time.
Being able to pick your fights, along with the environment and the terms of the engagement tickles my strategic bone. The Art of War is like a bible of tactics. I like to plan and exploit opportunity. When I have something to lose in pvp, I will not initiate or make myself vulnerable to an attack unless I already know the outcome is victory; or in the rare case that one of my friends needs help, in which case I'll probably chide him for engaging in a fight he didn't know if he would win or not.
The enjoyment is twofold for me: The strategy and execution of a plan is purely self indulgence and really has little to nothing to do with the target opponent. The other enjoyment is their lamentation. Nothing is more enjoyable than to listen to the gripes and complaints of a sore loser; knowing that you are now inside their head, eating away at their mind, and especially when they defensively say specifically that it doesn't bother them, and they thought that they just needed to tell you that.
Unfortunately I don't think you can get hatemail in Aion =(. Hatemail in EVE was better than killmails. I would gladly take 1 hatemail over 10 killmails.
P.S. I'm going assassin if that wasn't already obvious.
QUOTE FROM THIMLEE
There are so many reasons to enjoy open pvp it's hard to narrow them down to core ideas. I played EVE for a number of years and some others before then plus some obligatory wow time.
Being able to pick your fights, along with the environment and the terms of the engagement tickles my strategic bone. The Art of War is like a bible of tactics. I like to plan and exploit opportunity. When I have something to lose in pvp, I will not initiate or make myself vulnerable to an attack unless I already know the outcome is victory; or in the rare case that one of my friends needs help, in which case I'll probably chide him for engaging in a fight he didn't know if he would win or not.
The enjoyment is twofold for me: The strategy and execution of a plan is purely self indulgence and really has little to nothing to do with the target opponent. The other enjoyment is their lamentation. Nothing is more enjoyable than to listen to the gripes and complaints of a sore loser; knowing that you are now inside their head, eating away at their mind, and especially when they defensively say specifically that it doesn't bother them, and they thought that they just needed to tell you that.
Yea... kind of.
But it feels as if you just scanned over my O.P. and said to yourself....."Yea, I get the tone of this post... this is just another one of those 'why the PvP' topics... I got this one covered." <REPLY BUTTON HIT>
But I attempted to word my O.P. as to not illicit responses such as this.
You are a good writer and youre point is elegant, and dropping such a famed text as Art of War can only help, but I have to disagree on most of your post. The only part I agree with is the lamenting of the opponent... that does happen and I suppose you could relish in it....er... that is if your not doing the 8th grader owns 4th grader scenario I painted.
All these subtle tactics, and use of the environment to your advantage and other deep West Point & Annapolis hoo-haa has nothing to do with the "Me Tarzan you Jane" crap that mostly goes on with MMO beat-downs. You dont need to evaluate that much as it's "Me older, me have bigger club" that wins the day around these parts.
What your describing comes more from a nice solid victory in an RTS like good 'ol StarCraft... then you can relish the thought of your opponent hitting his own face on their keyboard while you kindly give him the "Good game pal" note at the end.
Most game developers try too hard to create the "fine line" between PvE and PvP and end up just making a PvE game with some second-thought PvP content thrown in. The result of this is usually a FFA server with people randomly running around ganking people with no purpose or a faction system that makes small scale PvP difficult to enjoy.
The key to a fun PvP is making it fair, competative, and with an objective. People enjoy PvP cause it is competative, it's the only thing in MMORPG's that's hard. It's more enjoyable for everyone when it's fair, and it stays enjoyable longer if there is an objective or purpose to it.
I haven't played Aion specifically, but if it doesn't have those three ingrediants that Iwouldn't enjoy the PvP in it, and eventually the PvP community and structure will breakdown into a bunch of individuals randomly attacking other individuals out of boredom. Grief doesn't come from "evil PvPers", it comes from bored PvPers.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
Very well stated Awakened.
Notice the form folks... generally disagreed with my O.P but responded with a logical, unemotional and basically unarguable reply... so rare indeed. Cheers Awakened.
I dont always like to PvP...so that is why I prefer EVE over Aion, or WoW over Aion ....I really want more of a choice when I do it since Im very dependant on my mood in what I like to in a game
PvPing however gives me a sense of awareness and thoughtfulness...I need to flexible in my thinking to be able to win, not to panic and to look out for others. Ofcourse its great to win but I dont mind losing at all unless its a bunch of annoying pricks/pigs who like to smacktalk and always seem to need some sort of protective right from their friends
That really turns me off and makes me sad....so I guess I will never be a hardcore PvPer and always be more of a sensitive carebear who likes a challenge now and then ^^
mm i hate the way most gamers pvp ,yes if your in a war zone and your at war your in a meat grinder its ok
its when a gamer do his quest and all trying to level and guy shows up you never saw him etc
that kind of pvp i dont like at all
dont get me wrong same guyshow himnself far away and he made sure i saw him be it rogue or war
then i either bring my weapon out or not if i bring em out then its cool come at me we ll play
but if i dont pull out my weapon .it means i dont have time for you now ,some dont understand
this,they feel your supposed to be 100% pvp ,lot have plenty of hour in the days to level but most that play these game have lot of stuff going on outside a game so if they can only play an hour and a gamer gank him 45 min he will not have gone forward by a lot .then those gamer will complain they dont have pvp foe to fight .
most that will log in aion like pvp ,but theres a time and place if your target doesnt pull out his weapon go try someone else
theere are ton of player in mmo
I enjoy MMORPG PvP because it actually feels like something important, unlike PvE. Oh, wow~ I managed to kill a boss that 5 million people killed before me! Woooooo! /sarcasm.
Whereas, in a PvP fight (expecially if the game is geared towards PvP/RvR) if you win, you feel like you've actually accomplished something. Don't get me wrong; I enjoy equipting that new epic just as much as the next guy, but beating the same boss over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over- Well, you get the idea.
If the OP doesn't understand why some people love RvR and PvP, he never played DAOC. If a game can TRUELY immerse you into the lore and get you to be passionate about protecting your people or raiding another; RvR can be one of the best experiences I, personally, think MMORPGs has to offer.
Very well stated Awakened.
Notice the form folks... generally disagreed with my O.P but responded with a logical, unemotional and basically unarguable reply... so rare indeed. Cheers Awakened.
Yeah well done 100% agree, whats that phrase again, think its "The Devil makes use of idle hands" a pvp or pvp/pve game with some bored players equals the illusion of a server full of asshats, I say illusion as its only a % number of players doing the most rabid ganking, but generates such a large feedback.
Ganking occurs as you cant stop all little boys from pulling the wings off insects. And sandbox pvp games should be renamed Sandpit game in allot of cases.
Hmmm Tonka Toys online with pvp, HEY SOE I got a pitch for a new kiddie game.
fury was a great pvp game ,this games had ton of pvp goal
Very well stated Awakened.
Notice the form folks... generally disagreed with my O.P but responded with a logical, unemotional and basically unarguable reply... so rare indeed. Cheers Awakened.
Yeah well done 100% agree, whats that phrase again, think its "The Devil makes use of idle hands" a pvp or pvp/pve game with some bored players equals the illusion of a server full of asshats, I say illusion as its only a % number of players doing the most rabid ganking, but generates such a large feedback.
Ganking occurs as you cant stop all little boys from pulling the wings off insects. And sandbox pvp games should be renamed Sandpit game in allot of cases.
Hmmm Tonka Toys online with pvp, HEY SOE I got a pitch for a new kiddie game.
grin .yep your post is cool
Fair and competitive exclude each other.
Objective is always present in PVP - it is to beat the other player.
As for the rest of the post...why not just saying PVP is not for you?
Fair and competitive exclude each other.
Objective is always present in PVP - it is to beat the other player.
As for the rest of the post...why not just saying PVP is not for you?
korean do fair and they do pvp
most here probably wouldnt like it but thats another story
Fair and competitive exclude each other.
Objective is always present in PVP - it is to beat the other player.
As for the rest of the post...why not just saying PVP is not for you?
Umm...who were you talking to when you said "As for the rest of the post"? was that me? Ohhh... you thought this was another "I don't like PvP at all, so here is my thread about it."
-nope, sorry. that is on like page 7 of the forum topics.
Personally, as someone who pvps in WoW, i do it because i tire of having something scripted, i mean i pay for an online game so i can experience the game with others and in my opinion id rather just log on and wait a few minutes and play a pvp match, than have to wait hours and hours to get a group together to go do something that i could do offline. Just my 2 cents
"As for the rest of the post" - the rest of the post I was replying to.
And yes, this is indeed another thread 'I don't like PVP'.
People already pointed out, including myself, how invalid your view on PVP is. Then you complain about lack of 'logical' replies when you do not care about any logic but all you seek is opinion similar to your own.
I can make an example about 'ganking' complaint.
Did you ever thought that the problem is not the groups killing individuals but that lone player being at wrong place at wrong time?
That's what PVP is about.