Howdy. This IS my first post, and yes, that means I don't have street cred on MMORPG.com, but I've been on the MMORTS scene for more than 5 years now (I helped with MMORTSGamers.com), and honestly I don't care what people think! So, either welcome me with open arms or feel free to waste your time yelling at me over the interwebs...
To mjelz:
I do have to agree with most of what you said. Of course, when I pay $50 for a game, I'd expect to get at least a month's play time with it, like Eve and Beyond Protocol do it (or did it when I began playing). @ piracy, you bet, MMO is the easiest way to prevent it, of course, that's an argument to lower initial cost, but w/e
To Dana Massey:
Like others... really? No one's done a successful MMORTS? It's the "Sasquatch of the video game industry"?
Well, perhaps that's true if you're counting only media frenzy, pr campaigns, and total revenue. However, there are some great MMORTS's out there. I do doubt that we will ever see one with the popularity of WoW, but honestly, that's not necessary to have a great game.
My favorites are Beyond Protocol (BP) and Star Alliances (SA), but I really enjoyed Boundless Planet, Mankind, Shattered Galaxy and Time of Defiance as well (with Mankind and Shattered Galaxy being the two most popular, but also most dated).
As for network issues, yes they often become problematic, however, this is where BP and SA step way ahead of everyone else. In the beginning, BP had issues yes, but after nearly a year of operation and constant development, it's no longer an issue. I've frequently had fights involving at least 4 players with 300 units each in one tight area and no lag, while skirmishes rage simultaneously in many other environments. It can be slow, because of the vast amount of strategy that goes into actually creating an empire, but that's why we have SA now.
SA is like Shattered Galaxy for those who know MMORTS. Don't let the initial site throw you off, this game is solid. You get a huge amount of customization, with none of the empire building that slows BP down. Build units, go into battle, earn influence (like credits for research) and experience (so you can have better/more ships), lose all your ships or repair, and redesign, then do it all again.
Ok, that's my piece, take it or leave it. Just know that upon posting this, I'll be off to play some MMORTS!
I'm also having freshly killed sasquatch for dinner if anyone want's to come over
"Without havoc there is no order, but without order there is only havoc, therefore, Havoc is inescapable" - The Origin(al) Havoc
I'm tired of this, the people that want $50 for a game plus a $10-15 monthly charge. There is no rationale for the $50 investment, if you are developing a game, then you as a business have already accepted the risk it will fail. Charging people upfront for your development costs is unreasonable bar minimum and shows how little faith gaming companies have in selling their games. Long term costs (service wise) can be mitigated with instances/other p2p methods, look at guild wars for that. Thus, sell the game for free (and only charge monthly) and what do you get? Oh right, no piracy and more customers (Since people can afford $10 or $15 a month easier).
I read your post and literally did a "WTF?!?!?!!??!"...two times! Not too good at thinking on our feet are we? Not offering a game for free has nothing to do with the confidence the company has in their product, its about making sure their people get paid and the business stays afloat. Millions of dollars in development and time and all you can say is "Why isn't it free?"
And just something to ponder on here...companies like NCSoft, Sony, and even Blizzzard had cashcows to draw funding from in the first place, but even then, how does that mean that they should invest all that time and money in creating something new and not ask for something up front for you to use? Tell ya what, come mow my yard for a year and at the end of the year I will pay you $15 a month. Don't forget to stop by on New Year's Eve...I'll have that check ready...I promise. Hypothetical transactions don't sound as appealing now, do they?
And since I am on the topic, the status of it being an MMO is what helps prevent piracy. Since the playability of the game is not fully reliant upon or isn't fully held on a disk that a player "obtains" and you have to authenticate into it to use it, there is less of a chance that piracy can occur as it can be more easily controlled and prevented.
do some research. Venture capitalists have to weigh their gains, but the cost *of* a game reflects solely on the investment value perceived by the company and nothing to do with the actual value of the game and is basically asking the consumers to pay the company's bills in an inappropriate fashion.
Free MMO's get more popularity because nobody has to buy the game. Of course that makes goldfarming more prominent too. Doesn't mean you can't have ways to make a profit (more than before), but means that charging for the game is just asinine.
Games are on a server only because companies think that it is better if they force people to duplicate server functionality and the concept of "well nobody will be able to steal it from us" that the average person won't be able to play somewhere else. Look at WOW private servers on that one. It's just a hassle. Give it a few years of education and you'll see how wasted such an idea is.
Piracy should be 0 focus. Absolutely none. All it means is you don't understand what the term represents and it shows how out of wack with reality you are.
The main problem with MMORTS games...most people mentioned big/small army's, solo/co-op plays, payment etc. etc. etc.
Sure all those could be a big problem but the accual problem is Balance of Units. In most of the mmorts's its the biggest problem. That is if they have Faction/Race units.
How Profitable is an MMORTS? If someone made Starcraft Online (mmorts) or Warcraft Online (mmorts) or hell... even Diablo Online (mmorts). And accualy made it good of course. It would be as profitable/more profitable than WoW.
The BIG names will always get profit like Warcraft,Starcraft,Diablo,Heroes of Might & Magic, Final Fantasy etc.
The reason why MMORTS ain't working as of yet (properly atleast) is becouse of gameplay.
Sure some games have proper gameplay like Saga Online and Beyond Protocol. While i didint play much of Beyond Protocol i can only talk about Saga Online since i played it since alpha up to long long time after release (about 2 years total) and eventualy quit it becouse of developers (not the game itself).
What people look for in an MMO-RTS?
1. Building
2. Command Lots of different units
3. Big Battles
4. PvP (PvE not so much)
5.Gameplay
6. Graphics
Sure some people don't look for Graphics much , some don't even like PvP much, but what when they make mere 10% of total players. Same why can't you Huggle (Hold in arms) Male-Male or Female-Female in Perfect World and other games.
Someone mentioned something like a 6v6 players battle where 1 player controls archers, 2nd player controls footmen and 3rd controls cavalry. I say why not?
Online & Offline issues
Sure you can't be online 24/7, some might even be Casual players not Hardcore gamers.Some might have a life.
But its accualy the cause of developers lack of imagination and/or skill to make proper AI.
Hell theres even so called "Super Computer" Mastermind of Chess with all known moves and impossible to beat.
That's 1 of the reasons why no1 wants to play Bot/PC , becouse their too damn stupid.
If a dev made proper AI for their own game they would be good enough to defend your own base while your offline, or copy your play style and use it vs. enemy. IT CAN BE DONE, but the only reason no1 does it is becouse "The Big Boss" doesn't wish to waste time on something like that.
IT CAN BE DONE, Saga Online done it, sure its an alternative as in their AI is extreamely bad (doesn't use abilitys properly and has no knowledge of formations(same like ability , gives passive bonuses when activated) but they done it so , you set the terrain you Can be attacked at, you can lose buildings there but you set it up as you wish and put in units you wish to use, by doing that you can attack other players that done the same, of course if you done it you gain some special resources on daily basis , that is if it doesnt get destroyed in the duration.
But again, the main problem is balance, if devs dont know how to balance, even things like that wont work, and Saga Online is a great example of that. Like that thing i just sayed before, you attack someone and you wish to capture his mines that provide that special resource, but of course its walled and you gotta kill enemy units AND destroy part of wall to accualy get to it, so they buzzed it up and made units that can teleport. yay... there goes the whole idea.
Comments
To Everyone:
Howdy. This IS my first post, and yes, that means I don't have street cred on MMORPG.com, but I've been on the MMORTS scene for more than 5 years now (I helped with MMORTSGamers.com), and honestly I don't care what people think! So, either welcome me with open arms or feel free to waste your time yelling at me over the interwebs...
To mjelz:
I do have to agree with most of what you said. Of course, when I pay $50 for a game, I'd expect to get at least a month's play time with it, like Eve and Beyond Protocol do it (or did it when I began playing). @ piracy, you bet, MMO is the easiest way to prevent it, of course, that's an argument to lower initial cost, but w/e
To Dana Massey:
Like others... really? No one's done a successful MMORTS? It's the "Sasquatch of the video game industry"?
Well, perhaps that's true if you're counting only media frenzy, pr campaigns, and total revenue. However, there are some great MMORTS's out there. I do doubt that we will ever see one with the popularity of WoW, but honestly, that's not necessary to have a great game.
My favorites are Beyond Protocol (BP) and Star Alliances (SA), but I really enjoyed Boundless Planet, Mankind, Shattered Galaxy and Time of Defiance as well (with Mankind and Shattered Galaxy being the two most popular, but also most dated).
As for network issues, yes they often become problematic, however, this is where BP and SA step way ahead of everyone else. In the beginning, BP had issues yes, but after nearly a year of operation and constant development, it's no longer an issue. I've frequently had fights involving at least 4 players with 300 units each in one tight area and no lag, while skirmishes rage simultaneously in many other environments. It can be slow, because of the vast amount of strategy that goes into actually creating an empire, but that's why we have SA now.
SA is like Shattered Galaxy for those who know MMORTS. Don't let the initial site throw you off, this game is solid. You get a huge amount of customization, with none of the empire building that slows BP down. Build units, go into battle, earn influence (like credits for research) and experience (so you can have better/more ships), lose all your ships or repair, and redesign, then do it all again.
Ok, that's my piece, take it or leave it. Just know that upon posting this, I'll be off to play some MMORTS!
I'm also having freshly killed sasquatch for dinner if anyone want's to come over
"Without havoc there is no order, but without order there is only havoc, therefore, Havoc is inescapable" - The Origin(al) Havoc
I read your post and literally did a "WTF?!?!?!!??!"...two times! Not too good at thinking on our feet are we? Not offering a game for free has nothing to do with the confidence the company has in their product, its about making sure their people get paid and the business stays afloat. Millions of dollars in development and time and all you can say is "Why isn't it free?"
And just something to ponder on here...companies like NCSoft, Sony, and even Blizzzard had cashcows to draw funding from in the first place, but even then, how does that mean that they should invest all that time and money in creating something new and not ask for something up front for you to use? Tell ya what, come mow my yard for a year and at the end of the year I will pay you $15 a month. Don't forget to stop by on New Year's Eve...I'll have that check ready...I promise. Hypothetical transactions don't sound as appealing now, do they?
And since I am on the topic, the status of it being an MMO is what helps prevent piracy. Since the playability of the game is not fully reliant upon or isn't fully held on a disk that a player "obtains" and you have to authenticate into it to use it, there is less of a chance that piracy can occur as it can be more easily controlled and prevented.
do some research. Venture capitalists have to weigh their gains, but the cost *of* a game reflects solely on the investment value perceived by the company and nothing to do with the actual value of the game and is basically asking the consumers to pay the company's bills in an inappropriate fashion.
Free MMO's get more popularity because nobody has to buy the game. Of course that makes goldfarming more prominent too. Doesn't mean you can't have ways to make a profit (more than before), but means that charging for the game is just asinine.
Games are on a server only because companies think that it is better if they force people to duplicate server functionality and the concept of "well nobody will be able to steal it from us" that the average person won't be able to play somewhere else. Look at WOW private servers on that one. It's just a hassle. Give it a few years of education and you'll see how wasted such an idea is.
Piracy should be 0 focus. Absolutely none. All it means is you don't understand what the term represents and it shows how out of wack with reality you are.
/rant
The main problem with MMORTS games...most people mentioned big/small army's, solo/co-op plays, payment etc. etc. etc.
Sure all those could be a big problem but the accual problem is Balance of Units. In most of the mmorts's its the biggest problem. That is if they have Faction/Race units.
How Profitable is an MMORTS? If someone made Starcraft Online (mmorts) or Warcraft Online (mmorts) or hell... even Diablo Online (mmorts). And accualy made it good of course. It would be as profitable/more profitable than WoW.
The BIG names will always get profit like Warcraft,Starcraft,Diablo,Heroes of Might & Magic, Final Fantasy etc.
The reason why MMORTS ain't working as of yet (properly atleast) is becouse of gameplay.
Sure some games have proper gameplay like Saga Online and Beyond Protocol. While i didint play much of Beyond Protocol i can only talk about Saga Online since i played it since alpha up to long long time after release (about 2 years total) and eventualy quit it becouse of developers (not the game itself).
What people look for in an MMO-RTS?
1. Building
2. Command Lots of different units
3. Big Battles
4. PvP (PvE not so much)
5.Gameplay
6. Graphics
Sure some people don't look for Graphics much , some don't even like PvP much, but what when they make mere 10% of total players. Same why can't you Huggle (Hold in arms) Male-Male or Female-Female in Perfect World and other games.
Someone mentioned something like a 6v6 players battle where 1 player controls archers, 2nd player controls footmen and 3rd controls cavalry. I say why not?
Online & Offline issues
Sure you can't be online 24/7, some might even be Casual players not Hardcore gamers.Some might have a life.
But its accualy the cause of developers lack of imagination and/or skill to make proper AI.
Hell theres even so called "Super Computer" Mastermind of Chess with all known moves and impossible to beat.
That's 1 of the reasons why no1 wants to play Bot/PC , becouse their too damn stupid.
If a dev made proper AI for their own game they would be good enough to defend your own base while your offline, or copy your play style and use it vs. enemy. IT CAN BE DONE, but the only reason no1 does it is becouse "The Big Boss" doesn't wish to waste time on something like that.
IT CAN BE DONE, Saga Online done it, sure its an alternative as in their AI is extreamely bad (doesn't use abilitys properly and has no knowledge of formations(same like ability , gives passive bonuses when activated) but they done it so , you set the terrain you Can be attacked at, you can lose buildings there but you set it up as you wish and put in units you wish to use, by doing that you can attack other players that done the same, of course if you done it you gain some special resources on daily basis , that is if it doesnt get destroyed in the duration.
But again, the main problem is balance, if devs dont know how to balance, even things like that wont work, and Saga Online is a great example of that. Like that thing i just sayed before, you attack someone and you wish to capture his mines that provide that special resource, but of course its walled and you gotta kill enemy units AND destroy part of wall to accualy get to it, so they buzzed it up and made units that can teleport. yay... there goes the whole idea.