Everything I've heard from beta pretty much backs up exactly what the OP is saying.
No one in beta is happy. The game is a LONG LONG way off from being functional, and they are seeking money any way they can, even charging for beta (one of the most underhanded things I've ever heard of from an MMO company). We could have seen this coming though, from a company that was selling hats and tshirts when all that was on the website was one pre rendered trailer they were pretending was in game footage.
They've pushed the game back like 3 times already whats a few more?
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
"They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift."
Taken from above reponse,
How is preordering (buying) the game being the only way to get into beta not equal to paying for the beta? Look at how insane your sentence is. Their not inviting people into the beta for free, its a paid beta, take the blinders off.
finally - someone else gets it
was beginning to wonder
and along with what you stated it has been admitted that beta would not even be taking place if not for those who paid to work for them
and, that's just fine by me - i like what we are being promised - just wish more would admit the above facts (not sure why though - just a quirk i guess)
Its as simple as this, if I was offered the ability to pre-order just the game out of 10000 copies I would pre-order it because there is an actual limitation. If I was offered the ability to buy the beta I would not. So in turn I paid for the final copy of the game I did not pay for beta, and anyone who paid the 75 bucks or whatever it was for them just for the beta are retards simple as that and they have shown that by wanting charge-backs because beta wasn't what they expected but were told how beta would be even before they pre-ordered.
Ablo, I could agree with you only if they called it something different, like a preview. But their not, its called a beta, and to get in you have to pre order, so in my book it falls under the category of a paided beta. Also I'm not even saying its bad, If i was interested enough in the game I would pay to be in the beta also. But at least I could admit thats whats happening.
They called it a preorder with a bonus. The bonus is a chance to help test the game. SV stated, before you paid for the preorder, that the testing will not be fun. Anyone expecting an open beta build to test were delutional. You get the chance to bang your head against a wall for SV, that is it for the bonus. Everyone who paid for the preorder will get a LE or boxed version of the game. Or if you paid for just the digital download, you get that.
Why is it so difficult to understand that some people want a game like MO to succeed and have the cash on hand to buy the game early? Why are these people called fanbois? Is paying for a game that is not out yet and may never make it cause the end of the world as we know it?
It is a game and the preorder was offered for anyone to buy as an option. No one forced you to buy the game and there was no deception. Any one who dissagrees with me. I just want to say "YOU LIE!". (that is an Obama refference if you didn't get that)
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I could completely understand the 5/10 bucks for preording the game. That's normal. Your credit card gets charged 5/10 bucks, than when the game releases, you pay the rest in full since you are getting the product you paid for.
But you are paying money to a company, the entire 50+++ dollars, in hopes that in a few (many) months, you will get to play the game...Like the 10 other people that want to play it. Look at any other game out for the past few years. They never ever asked players, pay for our Alpha/beta test. They have enough money to not worry about having to bring in more. That's a sign of a game will come out. Even F2P games don't charge for beta/alpha.
This.
I have been in the Friends and Family Alpha all the way through Beta / Open Beta till launch with Fallen Earth.
I have seen a game, in Alpha stage developing into a fun playable game (altho it still has plenty issues. But that aside).
I never paid a single dime. But I still did help them out a lot, with good, decent, reproducable bug reports!
StarVault is abusing and scamming their diehard fans, by making them pay FULL upfront, with a game that is in even a far worse state than Fallen Earth was when I entered more then 9 months ago. In fact, Mortal Online is even in a worse state than Fallen Earth was a year ago, when the Friends and Family Alpha started.
The fact, that they go to these great lenghts and try scam... ehh squeeze out money from their diehard fans, means they have run out of funding!
Wich is very dangerous and a very high risk!
Because if they already have to go to these drastic and dramatic lengths to pour in money, for a game that is still i the early stages of development (reading reports... this game isn't even in Alpha state yet).... there is a very very high chance this game will NEVER EVER see the light of day!
In fact, seeing how better and more finished, and above all better funded games have bitten the dust the last couple years. It's pretty much sertain that this game will never launch!
And if it launches, it will be early beta quality, with pleatora of bugs, full of non-functional or half finished game systems. Pretty much just as worse as Darkfall, maybe even worse.
But hey! Who am I to dictate in wich sewer you throw you 50-80 bucks in.
I'm just going to go ahead and agree with OP. I payed for the pre-order mainly to help out Star Vault. This is supposed to be a bad thing? Really? You're so neck deep in consumerist psychosis that you only buy from people who look like they don't need your busyness?
I was enthusiastic about helping with beta testing as well, but it turned out that I actually don't have enough time on my hands for the time being. That, and since beta started the MO forums have been thick with people like OP and his ilk and I don't have the stomach to read what they spout on daily basis.
I'm just going to go ahead and agree with OP. I payed for the pre-order mainly to help out Star Vault. This is supposed to be a bad thing? Really? You're so neck deep in consumerist psychosis that you only buy from people who look like they don't need your busyness? I was enthusiastic about helping with beta testing as well, but it turned out that I actually don't have enough time on my hands for the time being. That, and since beta started the MO forums have been thick with people like OP and his ilk and I don't have the stomach to read what they spout on daily basis.
They have a beta forum now for beta players only. If your group is in beta, you can upgrade your forum account and link it to your beta account. No more "ilk".
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I'm just going to go ahead and agree with OP. I payed for the pre-order mainly to help out Star Vault. This is supposed to be a bad thing? Really? You're so neck deep in consumerist psychosis that you only buy from people who look like they don't need your busyness? I was enthusiastic about helping with beta testing as well, but it turned out that I actually don't have enough time on my hands for the time being. That, and since beta started the MO forums have been thick with people like OP and his ilk and I don't have the stomach to read what they spout on daily basis.
They have a beta forum now for beta players only. If your group is in beta, you can upgrade your forum account and link it to your beta account. No more "ilk".
Yeah, I remember getting an email about it yesterday or the day before but I wasn't sure if it was already up and running. That's a very good thing certainly, I think I just might jump in once again this weekend.
Ok came into MMORPG.com and this thread was on the front page so thought i would take a look.
First, i payed for the game and have been in beta since block a. It's my money and it wasn't even that much money, I make 3 times that in 1 day of work. It's not a scam if people are willing to do something knowing that they need the money to continue developing the game. I knew when i paid that's what it was for and i wanted to support them considering they're the only company making a good Fantasy UO style MMO atm (well maybe dawntide as well).
Second, Beta is far more enjoyabel now, i waited for a few weeks cause i moved to another state and had to wait to get cable and internet. When i came back they have made vast improvements in a short period of time. When it started it was nothing more than a combat beta and server stress testing. Now the server is pretty stable now and i actually don't mind logging in to play even though i'm beta testing. They have also changed alot of other stuff and they are getting ready to do some other things i can't say cause i'll break the NDA. Either way it's getting there and i think by end of the year or Q1 of 2010 it will be ready to go. Will it be bug ridden, probably, never seen an MMO launch that wasn't. Will everything get ironed out in a couple months and new content patches ensue, probably since that's the trend of a MMO's following release.
Last, I saw someone say that SV said they were releasing Q1 09 then summer of 09, i never saw or heard that. I saw a business model they had and it clearly showed beta starting in the summer and game releasing in the fall. Will it release in the fall, no, but never seen a game release the first time they expected it to release. Will it release somewhat soon, probably, might not be fall when it does, but probably in the winter whether it's 09 or 2010 who knows.
Either way, if you don't want to spend money to help SV develop their game, don't. Just wait for release and pay the 50$ like normal and stop bitching about it. Is it really that hard for you to make an informed decision on how to spend a WHOLE 80$!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG imma go bankrupt, oh SV my children will starve to death!!!!! Look, stop the bitching and just wait for release, if you bought a copy ahead of time and don't like where the beta is, that was your choice from the beginning, the devs never lied about anything and have been up front on where the game dev. was, is, and will be.
Those of you who are comparing Star Vault to large MMO companies are being very short-sighted. Do you have any idea how much less money and resources Star Vault has in comparison to the larger companies? Star Vault is a new (relatively), independent development company, and should not be compared to Sony, Blizzard, NCSoft, or any of the big names, which have years upon years of experience and resources at their disposal. It's naturally going to be much harder for SV to develop and maintain a product. And so it's no wonder they're trying to grab at every little penny they can in order to progress; they need it!
I don't think many of you realize how grave of an undertaking SV is taking. This isn't some ordinary MMO made by a big developer. Keep in mind that there's no other product like Mortal Online out at the moment besides Darkfall, and consensus says Darkfall isn't too great. SV is taking a huge risk here -- they are attempting to create, with limited money and resources, a niche hardcore PVP MMO. This niche isn't as popular as mainstream MMOs (themeparks, mainly). They know this, and they know this equates to a smaller consumer base. They even know that they're probably going to make shit profits and lose a great deal of their investment. Despite this, they're still trying to give us, the hardcore pvp niche, what we want. A game we've been fantasizing about some UO.
And instead of acknowledging their dedication and courageous attempt to do this, you ridicule them for not being like the big MMO companies? I don't really know what else to say. If you can't understand what I've just said, you probably shouldn't be following MO in the first place.
Those of you who are comparing Star Vault to large MMO companies are being very short-sighted. Do you have any idea how much less money and resources Star Vault has in comparison to the larger companies? Star Vault is a new (relatively), independent development company, and should not be compared to Sony, Blizzard, NCSoft, or any of the big names, which have years upon years of experience and resources at their disposal. It's naturally going to be much harder for SV to develop and maintain a product. And so it's no wonder they're trying to grab at every little penny they can in order to progress; they need it!
I don't think many of you realize how grave of an undertaking SV is taking. This isn't some ordinary MMO made by a big developer. Keep in mind that there's no other product like Mortal Online out at the moment besides Darkfall, and consensus says Darkfall isn't too great. SV is taking a huge risk here -- they are attempting to create, with limited money and resources, a niche hardcore PVP MMO. This niche isn't as popular as mainstream MMOs (themeparks, mainly). They know this, and they know this equates to a smaller consumer base. They even know that they're probably going to make shit profits and lose a great deal of their investment. Despite this, they're still trying to give us, the hardcore pvp niche, what we want. A game we've been fantasizing about some UO.
And instead of acknowledging their dedication and courageous attempt to do this, you ridicule them for not being like the big MMO companies? I don't really know what else to say. If you can't understand what I've just said, you probably shouldn't be following MO in the first place.
Still those big companies with all that "experience" spitting out crap games for years on end.
Those of you who are comparing Star Vault to large MMO companies are being very short-sighted. Do you have any idea how much less money and resources Star Vault has in comparison to the larger companies? Star Vault is a new (relatively), independent development company, and should not be compared to Sony, Blizzard, NCSoft, or any of the big names, which have years upon years of experience and resources at their disposal. It's naturally going to be much harder for SV to develop and maintain a product. And so it's no wonder they're trying to grab at every little penny they can in order to progress; they need it!
I don't think many of you realize how grave of an undertaking SV is taking. This isn't some ordinary MMO made by a big developer. Keep in mind that there's no other product like Mortal Online out at the moment besides Darkfall, and consensus says Darkfall isn't too great. SV is taking a huge risk here -- they are attempting to create, with limited money and resources, a niche hardcore PVP MMO. This niche isn't as popular as mainstream MMOs (themeparks, mainly). They know this, and they know this equates to a smaller consumer base. They even know that they're probably going to make shit profits and lose a great deal of their investment. Despite this, they're still trying to give us, the hardcore pvp niche, what we want. A game we've been fantasizing about some UO.
And instead of acknowledging their dedication and courageous attempt to do this, you ridicule them for not being like the big MMO companies? I don't really know what else to say. If you can't understand what I've just said, you probably shouldn't be following MO in the first place.
Still those big companies with all that "experience" spitting out crap games for years on end.
Well, you're right -- regardless of the amount of experience or resources a company has, they can still produce shit games. That wasn't my point, though.
For the record, I'm in MO beta, and while it isn't anywhere near polished (as others have mentioned), I honestly don't think it's a shit game. We will see what they do with this, though.
I could completely understand the 5/10 bucks for preording the game. That's normal. Your credit card gets charged 5/10 bucks, than when the game releases, you pay the rest in full since you are getting the product you paid for.
But you are paying money to a company, the entire 50+++ dollars, in hopes that in a few (many) months, you will get to play the game...Like the 10 other people that want to play it. Look at any other game out for the past few years. They never ever asked players, pay for our Alpha/beta test. They have enough money to not worry about having to bring in more. That's a sign of a game will come out. Even F2P games don't charge for beta/alpha.
This.
I have been in the Friends and Family Alpha all the way through Beta / Open Beta till launch with Fallen Earth.
I have seen a game, in Alpha stage developing into a fun playable game (altho it still has plenty issues. But that aside).
I never paid a single dime. But I still did help them out a lot, with good, decent, reproducable bug reports!
StarVault is abusing and scamming their diehard fans, by making them pay FULL upfront, with a game that is in even a far worse state than Fallen Earth was when I entered more then 9 months ago. In fact, Mortal Online is even in a worse state than Fallen Earth was a year ago, when the Friends and Family Alpha started.
The fact, that they go to these great lenghts and try scam... ehh squeeze out money from their diehard fans, means they have run out of funding!
Wich is very dangerous and a very high risk!
Because if they already have to go to these drastic and dramatic lengths to pour in money, for a game that is still i the early stages of development (reading reports... this game isn't even in Alpha state yet).... there is a very very high chance this game will NEVER EVER see the light of day!
In fact, seeing how better and more finished, and above all better funded games have bitten the dust the last couple years. It's pretty much sertain that this game will never launch!
And if it launches, it will be early beta quality, with pleatora of bugs, full of non-functional or half finished game systems. Pretty much just as worse as Darkfall, maybe even worse.
But hey! Who am I to dictate in wich sewer you throw you 50-80 bucks in.
Good luck!
All im ganna say is with the amount of bullshit speculation in your post there really isn't any point in responding passed this.
SV is not holding a gun to your head telling you to pre-order. Pipe down. If you don't want to pre-order, don't! Nuff said. They are a small company and I CHOSE to support them by pre-ordering.
Personally I would never ever pay full price to beta test a game. I am supposed to be helping them... not with money but by bug reports.
Certainly after the stupidity that was DF launch they should have thought long and hard about this pre-order into beta non-sense. Though, I am beginning to think SV are running out of money. Though Perhaps the features of MO will get switched on in the next few months. Though to be honest I am dubious. It must be incredibly hard to make a MMORPG as a small company...
Things are not looking like the first couple of months will be easy riding. Still not as bad as DF dismal pre-launch.
Personally I would never ever pay full price to beta test a game. I am supposed to be helping them... not with money but by bug reports. Certainly after the stupidity that was DF launch they should have thought long and hard about this pre-order into beta non-sense. Though, I am beginning to think SV are running out of money. Though Perhaps the features of MO will get switched on in the next few months. Though to be honest I am dubious. It must be incredibly hard to make a MMORPG as a small company... Things are not looking like the first couple of months will be easy riding. Still not as bad as DF dismal pre-launch.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
Personally I would never ever pay full price to beta test a game. I am supposed to be helping them... not with money but by bug reports. Certainly after the stupidity that was DF launch they should have thought long and hard about this pre-order into beta non-sense. Though, I am beginning to think SV are running out of money. Though Perhaps the features of MO will get switched on in the next few months. Though to be honest I am dubious. It must be incredibly hard to make a MMORPG as a small company... Things are not looking like the first couple of months will be easy riding. Still not as bad as DF dismal pre-launch.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
Those of you who are comparing Star Vault to large MMO companies are being very short-sighted. Do you have any idea how much less money and resources Star Vault has in comparison to the larger companies? Star Vault is a new (relatively), independent development company, and should not be compared to Sony, Blizzard, NCSoft, or any of the big names, which have years upon years of experience and resources at their disposal. It's naturally going to be much harder for SV to develop and maintain a product. And so it's no wonder they're trying to grab at every little penny they can in order to progress; they need it!
I don't think many of you realize how grave of an undertaking SV is taking. This isn't some ordinary MMO made by a big developer. Keep in mind that there's no other product like Mortal Online out at the moment besides Darkfall, and consensus says Darkfall isn't too great. SV is taking a huge risk here -- they are attempting to create, with limited money and resources, a niche hardcore PVP MMO. This niche isn't as popular as mainstream MMOs (themeparks, mainly). They know this, and they know this equates to a smaller consumer base. They even know that they're probably going to make shit profits and lose a great deal of their investment. Despite this, they're still trying to give us, the hardcore pvp niche, what we want. A game we've been fantasizing about some UO.
And instead of acknowledging their dedication and courageous attempt to do this, you ridicule them for not being like the big MMO companies? I don't really know what else to say. If you can't understand what I've just said, you probably shouldn't be following MO in the first place.
Still those big companies with all that "experience" spitting out crap games for years on end.
Well, you're right -- regardless of the amount of experience or resources a company has, they can still produce shit games. That wasn't my point, though.
For the record, I'm in MO beta, and while it isn't anywhere near polished (as others have mentioned), I honestly don't think it's a shit game. We will see what they do with this, though.
I know what your points was but there is so many people who says that big companies are better then indi ones, tbh it's the indi companies who make the fun and innovated games.
When will these companies learn to stop throwing money down the toilet?
Companies like this that keep relying on people who don't know how to properly critique a game during their beta phase (let alone fill out a bug report) and give them info and what's wrong with their games are just asking for it.
Most of those people just want to get a heads up sneak peek and aren't interested in "working". And now these guys are charging to beta test?
That's classic. I guess they think it's like those restaurants that allow you to cook your own steak just the way you like it, while charging you full price, lol.
But hey, it's your money. Spend it as you see fit. If I had the disposable income to spend paying to beta a game I was completely psyched up about, I'd probably be tempted myself. Of course, I sure as heck wouldn't be doing any 'beta' duties, I'd just be playing the game, as others have said.
I just cant get past the fact for $75 you could buy a finished game, sub for at least a month and still have some money left. Or buy two or three single player games. Guess im just not thinking right.
Personally I would never ever pay full price to beta test a game. I am supposed to be helping them... not with money but by bug reports. Certainly after the stupidity that was DF launch they should have thought long and hard about this pre-order into beta non-sense. Though, I am beginning to think SV are running out of money. Though Perhaps the features of MO will get switched on in the next few months. Though to be honest I am dubious. It must be incredibly hard to make a MMORPG as a small company... Things are not looking like the first couple of months will be easy riding. Still not as bad as DF dismal pre-launch.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
I am debt free.
Wow must be nice to have free electricity, gas, food, no property taxes, etc.....
Personally I would never ever pay full price to beta test a game. I am supposed to be helping them... not with money but by bug reports. Certainly after the stupidity that was DF launch they should have thought long and hard about this pre-order into beta non-sense. Though, I am beginning to think SV are running out of money. Though Perhaps the features of MO will get switched on in the next few months. Though to be honest I am dubious. It must be incredibly hard to make a MMORPG as a small company... Things are not looking like the first couple of months will be easy riding. Still not as bad as DF dismal pre-launch.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
I am debt free.
Wow must be nice to have free electricity, gas, food, no property taxes, etc.....
I knew someone would say something ignorant like that. So i guess Star Vault doesnt have utility bills either then?
Personally I would never ever pay full price to beta test a game. I am supposed to be helping them... not with money but by bug reports. Certainly after the stupidity that was DF launch they should have thought long and hard about this pre-order into beta non-sense. Though, I am beginning to think SV are running out of money. Though Perhaps the features of MO will get switched on in the next few months. Though to be honest I am dubious. It must be incredibly hard to make a MMORPG as a small company... Things are not looking like the first couple of months will be easy riding. Still not as bad as DF dismal pre-launch.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
I am debt free.
Wow must be nice to have free electricity, gas, food, no property taxes, etc.....
I knew someone would say something ignorant like that. So i guess Star Vault doesnt have utility bills either then?
Its as simple as this, if I was offered the ability to pre-order just the game out of 10000 copies I would pre-order it because there is an actual limitation. If I was offered the ability to buy the beta I would not. So in turn I paid for the final copy of the game I did not pay for beta, and anyone who paid the 75 bucks or whatever it was for them just for the beta are retards simple as that and they have shown that by wanting charge-backs because beta wasn't what they expected but were told how beta would be even before they pre-ordered.
I am sorry but you have apparently confused pre-order with pre-purchase (a much less common practice).
Pre-Order means you order a game before it is released and then when it is released they charge you the money and then send it. A Pre-Order can be withdrawn at any time before the release.
Pre-Purchase means that you actually buy something that is not released yet and they charge you right away and then later send you the game. A refund for pre-purchase is like a refund for any other purchase and is thus harder than withdrawing a pre-order. Judging from how hard it is to get a refund for your MO "pre-order" I would definetely say that it is a pre-purchase and nothing else.
So before calling other people retards then keep in mind that it is you who have mixed up two different concepts. Withdrawing a pre-order is usually very easy so those "retards" have like you, confused the Mortal Online pre-purchase with a pre-order.
Furthermore you do not get the "privileage" or "bonus" to test a software. Software Testing is WORK and people are payed for that but there are also those that volonteur to perform that work but in no way are companies doing you a favour by "allowing" you to test their product. It is you who are doing them a favour by not charging for doing something that people are paid to do.
Firstly, how many times is it possible to have the same thread with a different title, the contents of each one being nothing but flame and reflame.
Secondly, SV put forward an offer, to pre-order/purchase their game. At which point everyone gets to make their decision to take them up on it or not. (I would like to point out at this is nothing really new in regards to indy devs making games. I have donated to a number of games in development and will most likely if I feel the project has merit, do so again in the future). Instead of asking for donations SV offered a prepurchase scheme, and those that took up the offer got to beta the game, which to me seems like a massive plus, those beta'ing the game have an investment in it and will give more constructive feedback than people just looking for a bit of free play.
Purely from a personal perspective, I want to play a new mmo that offers the features being touted by MO, I know there is not a chance in hell any large dev is going to make that game in my lifetime (not when they can make another wow and cash in) so indy is all I have. Is it preferential? No, but instead of sitting on these boards continuously moaning, whinning, bitching and crying about the 'good ol days' I am more than happy to put my money where my mouth is and put some cash up for any dev willing to make that game,.... then come to these boards maon whine and bitch anyway!
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Firstly, how many times is it possible to have the same thread with a different title, the contents of each one being nothing but flame and reflame. Secondly, SV put forward an offer, to pre-order/purchase their game. At which point everyone gets to make their decision to take them up on it or not. (I would like to point out at this is nothing really new in regards to indy devs making games. I have donated to a number of games in development and will most likely if I feel the project has merit, do so again in the future). Instead of asking for donations SV offered a prepurchase scheme, and those that took up the offer got to beta the game, which to me seems like a massive plus, those beta'ing the game have an investment in it and will give more constructive feedback than people just looking for a bit of free play. Purely from a personal perspective, I want to play a new mmo that offers the features being touted by MO, I know there is not a chance in hell any large dev is going to make that game in my lifetime (not when they can make another wow and cash in) so indy is all I have. Is it preferential? No, but instead of sitting on these boards continuously moaning, whinning, bitching and crying about the 'good ol days' I am more than happy to put my money where my mouth is and put some cash up for any dev willing to make that game,.... then come to these boards maon whine and bitch anyway!
You can do whatever you want with your money, throw it in a lake for all I care, but the fact is that Starvault sold non existing copies of the game (pre-purchases) and used the privileage to beta test their game as a bait. Hence at this moment what you are actually paying for is to beta test their game since you have not received any copy of the game yet. So depending on how you twist it you can say that you (pre)purchased the game and got beta as a bonus but you can just as much say that you paid to pre-purchase the game AND beta test it.
Add do this that it is very hard to cancel your pre-purchase (something that was NOT clear when doing the so called pre orders since pre orders are almost always very easy to cancel) then it is natural that most "normal" customers are upset. I for one pre-ordered the game and thought that if the game did not release when they, at that time, estimated it would (Q3 -09) then I would just cancel my pre-order. But since apparently this is a pre-purchase such a cancelation does not seem to be possible so theoretically they could hang on to my money indefinetely, and delaying the release for years (like Darkfall) without shipping anything to me.
And again most "normal" customers would be upset if such a thing happened.
Comments
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
"They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift."
Taken from above reponse,
How is preordering (buying) the game being the only way to get into beta not equal to paying for the beta? Look at how insane your sentence is. Their not inviting people into the beta for free, its a paid beta, take the blinders off.
finally - someone else gets it
was beginning to wonder
and along with what you stated it has been admitted that beta would not even be taking place if not for those who paid to work for them
and, that's just fine by me - i like what we are being promised - just wish more would admit the above facts (not sure why though - just a quirk i guess)
Its as simple as this, if I was offered the ability to pre-order just the game out of 10000 copies I would pre-order it because there is an actual limitation. If I was offered the ability to buy the beta I would not. So in turn I paid for the final copy of the game I did not pay for beta, and anyone who paid the 75 bucks or whatever it was for them just for the beta are retards simple as that and they have shown that by wanting charge-backs because beta wasn't what they expected but were told how beta would be even before they pre-ordered.
Ablo, I could agree with you only if they called it something different, like a preview. But their not, its called a beta, and to get in you have to pre order, so in my book it falls under the category of a paided beta. Also I'm not even saying its bad, If i was interested enough in the game I would pay to be in the beta also. But at least I could admit thats whats happening.
They called it a preorder with a bonus. The bonus is a chance to help test the game. SV stated, before you paid for the preorder, that the testing will not be fun. Anyone expecting an open beta build to test were delutional. You get the chance to bang your head against a wall for SV, that is it for the bonus. Everyone who paid for the preorder will get a LE or boxed version of the game. Or if you paid for just the digital download, you get that.
Why is it so difficult to understand that some people want a game like MO to succeed and have the cash on hand to buy the game early? Why are these people called fanbois? Is paying for a game that is not out yet and may never make it cause the end of the world as we know it?
It is a game and the preorder was offered for anyone to buy as an option. No one forced you to buy the game and there was no deception. Any one who dissagrees with me. I just want to say "YOU LIE!".
(that is an Obama refference if you didn't get that)
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
This.
I have been in the Friends and Family Alpha all the way through Beta / Open Beta till launch with Fallen Earth.
I have seen a game, in Alpha stage developing into a fun playable game (altho it still has plenty issues. But that aside).
I never paid a single dime. But I still did help them out a lot, with good, decent, reproducable bug reports!
StarVault is abusing and scamming their diehard fans, by making them pay FULL upfront, with a game that is in even a far worse state than Fallen Earth was when I entered more then 9 months ago. In fact, Mortal Online is even in a worse state than Fallen Earth was a year ago, when the Friends and Family Alpha started.
The fact, that they go to these great lenghts and try scam... ehh squeeze out money from their diehard fans, means they have run out of funding!
Wich is very dangerous and a very high risk!
Because if they already have to go to these drastic and dramatic lengths to pour in money, for a game that is still i the early stages of development (reading reports... this game isn't even in Alpha state yet).... there is a very very high chance this game will NEVER EVER see the light of day!
In fact, seeing how better and more finished, and above all better funded games have bitten the dust the last couple years. It's pretty much sertain that this game will never launch!
And if it launches, it will be early beta quality, with pleatora of bugs, full of non-functional or half finished game systems. Pretty much just as worse as Darkfall, maybe even worse.
But hey! Who am I to dictate in wich sewer you throw you 50-80 bucks in.
Good luck!
I'm just going to go ahead and agree with OP. I payed for the pre-order mainly to help out Star Vault. This is supposed to be a bad thing? Really? You're so neck deep in consumerist psychosis that you only buy from people who look like they don't need your busyness?
I was enthusiastic about helping with beta testing as well, but it turned out that I actually don't have enough time on my hands for the time being. That, and since beta started the MO forums have been thick with people like OP and his ilk and I don't have the stomach to read what they spout on daily basis.
They have a beta forum now for beta players only. If your group is in beta, you can upgrade your forum account and link it to your beta account. No more "ilk".
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
They have a beta forum now for beta players only. If your group is in beta, you can upgrade your forum account and link it to your beta account. No more "ilk".
Yeah, I remember getting an email about it yesterday or the day before but I wasn't sure if it was already up and running. That's a very good thing certainly, I think I just might jump in once again this weekend.
Ok came into MMORPG.com and this thread was on the front page so thought i would take a look.
First, i payed for the game and have been in beta since block a. It's my money and it wasn't even that much money, I make 3 times that in 1 day of work. It's not a scam if people are willing to do something knowing that they need the money to continue developing the game. I knew when i paid that's what it was for and i wanted to support them considering they're the only company making a good Fantasy UO style MMO atm (well maybe dawntide as well).
Second, Beta is far more enjoyabel now, i waited for a few weeks cause i moved to another state and had to wait to get cable and internet. When i came back they have made vast improvements in a short period of time. When it started it was nothing more than a combat beta and server stress testing. Now the server is pretty stable now and i actually don't mind logging in to play even though i'm beta testing. They have also changed alot of other stuff and they are getting ready to do some other things i can't say cause i'll break the NDA. Either way it's getting there and i think by end of the year or Q1 of 2010 it will be ready to go. Will it be bug ridden, probably, never seen an MMO launch that wasn't. Will everything get ironed out in a couple months and new content patches ensue, probably since that's the trend of a MMO's following release.
Last, I saw someone say that SV said they were releasing Q1 09 then summer of 09, i never saw or heard that. I saw a business model they had and it clearly showed beta starting in the summer and game releasing in the fall. Will it release in the fall, no, but never seen a game release the first time they expected it to release. Will it release somewhat soon, probably, might not be fall when it does, but probably in the winter whether it's 09 or 2010 who knows.
Either way, if you don't want to spend money to help SV develop their game, don't. Just wait for release and pay the 50$ like normal and stop bitching about it. Is it really that hard for you to make an informed decision on how to spend a WHOLE 80$!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG imma go bankrupt, oh SV my children will starve to death!!!!! Look, stop the bitching and just wait for release, if you bought a copy ahead of time and don't like where the beta is, that was your choice from the beginning, the devs never lied about anything and have been up front on where the game dev. was, is, and will be.
/signed
Those of you who are comparing Star Vault to large MMO companies are being very short-sighted. Do you have any idea how much less money and resources Star Vault has in comparison to the larger companies? Star Vault is a new (relatively), independent development company, and should not be compared to Sony, Blizzard, NCSoft, or any of the big names, which have years upon years of experience and resources at their disposal. It's naturally going to be much harder for SV to develop and maintain a product. And so it's no wonder they're trying to grab at every little penny they can in order to progress; they need it!
I don't think many of you realize how grave of an undertaking SV is taking. This isn't some ordinary MMO made by a big developer. Keep in mind that there's no other product like Mortal Online out at the moment besides Darkfall, and consensus says Darkfall isn't too great. SV is taking a huge risk here -- they are attempting to create, with limited money and resources, a niche hardcore PVP MMO. This niche isn't as popular as mainstream MMOs (themeparks, mainly). They know this, and they know this equates to a smaller consumer base. They even know that they're probably going to make shit profits and lose a great deal of their investment. Despite this, they're still trying to give us, the hardcore pvp niche, what we want. A game we've been fantasizing about some UO.
And instead of acknowledging their dedication and courageous attempt to do this, you ridicule them for not being like the big MMO companies? I don't really know what else to say. If you can't understand what I've just said, you probably shouldn't be following MO in the first place.
Still those big companies with all that "experience" spitting out crap games for years on end.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Still those big companies with all that "experience" spitting out crap games for years on end.
Well, you're right -- regardless of the amount of experience or resources a company has, they can still produce shit games. That wasn't my point, though.
For the record, I'm in MO beta, and while it isn't anywhere near polished (as others have mentioned), I honestly don't think it's a shit game. We will see what they do with this, though.
This.
I have been in the Friends and Family Alpha all the way through Beta / Open Beta till launch with Fallen Earth.
I have seen a game, in Alpha stage developing into a fun playable game (altho it still has plenty issues. But that aside).
I never paid a single dime. But I still did help them out a lot, with good, decent, reproducable bug reports!
StarVault is abusing and scamming their diehard fans, by making them pay FULL upfront, with a game that is in even a far worse state than Fallen Earth was when I entered more then 9 months ago. In fact, Mortal Online is even in a worse state than Fallen Earth was a year ago, when the Friends and Family Alpha started.
The fact, that they go to these great lenghts and try scam... ehh squeeze out money from their diehard fans, means they have run out of funding!
Wich is very dangerous and a very high risk!
Because if they already have to go to these drastic and dramatic lengths to pour in money, for a game that is still i the early stages of development (reading reports... this game isn't even in Alpha state yet).... there is a very very high chance this game will NEVER EVER see the light of day!
In fact, seeing how better and more finished, and above all better funded games have bitten the dust the last couple years. It's pretty much sertain that this game will never launch!
And if it launches, it will be early beta quality, with pleatora of bugs, full of non-functional or half finished game systems. Pretty much just as worse as Darkfall, maybe even worse.
But hey! Who am I to dictate in wich sewer you throw you 50-80 bucks in.
Good luck!
All im ganna say is with the amount of bullshit speculation in your post there really isn't any point in responding passed this.
SV is not holding a gun to your head telling you to pre-order. Pipe down. If you don't want to pre-order, don't! Nuff said. They are a small company and I CHOSE to support them by pre-ordering.
Personally I would never ever pay full price to beta test a game. I am supposed to be helping them... not with money but by bug reports.
Certainly after the stupidity that was DF launch they should have thought long and hard about this pre-order into beta non-sense. Though, I am beginning to think SV are running out of money. Though Perhaps the features of MO will get switched on in the next few months. Though to be honest I am dubious. It must be incredibly hard to make a MMORPG as a small company...
Things are not looking like the first couple of months will be easy riding. Still not as bad as DF dismal pre-launch.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
I am debt free.
Still those big companies with all that "experience" spitting out crap games for years on end.
Well, you're right -- regardless of the amount of experience or resources a company has, they can still produce shit games. That wasn't my point, though.
For the record, I'm in MO beta, and while it isn't anywhere near polished (as others have mentioned), I honestly don't think it's a shit game. We will see what they do with this, though.
I know what your points was but there is so many people who says that big companies are better then indi ones, tbh it's the indi companies who make the fun and innovated games.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Another failed PvP game in the making...
When will these companies learn to stop throwing money down the toilet?
Companies like this that keep relying on people who don't know how to properly critique a game during their beta phase (let alone fill out a bug report) and give them info and what's wrong with their games are just asking for it.
Most of those people just want to get a heads up sneak peek and aren't interested in "working". And now these guys are charging to beta test?
That's classic. I guess they think it's like those restaurants that allow you to cook your own steak just the way you like it, while charging you full price, lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I smell another Mourning in the making!
Yeah, I went there.
But hey, it's your money. Spend it as you see fit. If I had the disposable income to spend paying to beta a game I was completely psyched up about, I'd probably be tempted myself. Of course, I sure as heck wouldn't be doing any 'beta' duties, I'd just be playing the game, as others have said.
I just cant get past the fact for $75 you could buy a finished game, sub for at least a month and still have some money left. Or buy two or three single player games. Guess im just not thinking right.
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
I am debt free.
Wow must be nice to have free electricity, gas, food, no property taxes, etc.....
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
I am debt free.
Wow must be nice to have free electricity, gas, food, no property taxes, etc.....
I knew someone would say something ignorant like that. So i guess Star Vault doesnt have utility bills either then?
Agreed there are a lot of rough edges that need smoothing but give them time. If things are still ugly come Jan 1 then it is time to start roasting the devs at the stake
As to running out of money, well that may be true but until they incur debt they are still solvent and on the plus side. How many of you can say you are debt free? You will be a liar if you do or are still letting mommy support your lazy ass.
I am willing to cut SV or any indie company a bit of slack, but the people fawning all over them since they are indie are just another group like we saw in the Deceit-n-Lie and the Dork-n-Fail fawnbois.
People letting things slide are doing no great service and I would argue actually a dis-service to the games development. Tell them like it is and don't sugar coat it. If you get banned then you know all you need to about the games future.
I am debt free.
Wow must be nice to have free electricity, gas, food, no property taxes, etc.....
I knew someone would say something ignorant like that. So i guess Star Vault doesnt have utility bills either then?
lol, its phrank what do you expect.
That isn't debt unless you pay with some form of credit.
Its as simple as this, if I was offered the ability to pre-order just the game out of 10000 copies I would pre-order it because there is an actual limitation. If I was offered the ability to buy the beta I would not. So in turn I paid for the final copy of the game I did not pay for beta, and anyone who paid the 75 bucks or whatever it was for them just for the beta are retards simple as that and they have shown that by wanting charge-backs because beta wasn't what they expected but were told how beta would be even before they pre-ordered.
I am sorry but you have apparently confused pre-order with pre-purchase (a much less common practice).
Pre-Order means you order a game before it is released and then when it is released they charge you the money and then send it. A Pre-Order can be withdrawn at any time before the release.
Pre-Purchase means that you actually buy something that is not released yet and they charge you right away and then later send you the game. A refund for pre-purchase is like a refund for any other purchase and is thus harder than withdrawing a pre-order. Judging from how hard it is to get a refund for your MO "pre-order" I would definetely say that it is a pre-purchase and nothing else.
So before calling other people retards then keep in mind that it is you who have mixed up two different concepts. Withdrawing a pre-order is usually very easy so those "retards" have like you, confused the Mortal Online pre-purchase with a pre-order.
Furthermore you do not get the "privileage" or "bonus" to test a software. Software Testing is WORK and people are payed for that but there are also those that volonteur to perform that work but in no way are companies doing you a favour by "allowing" you to test their product. It is you who are doing them a favour by not charging for doing something that people are paid to do.
My gaming blog
Firstly, how many times is it possible to have the same thread with a different title, the contents of each one being nothing but flame and reflame.
Secondly, SV put forward an offer, to pre-order/purchase their game. At which point everyone gets to make their decision to take them up on it or not. (I would like to point out at this is nothing really new in regards to indy devs making games. I have donated to a number of games in development and will most likely if I feel the project has merit, do so again in the future). Instead of asking for donations SV offered a prepurchase scheme, and those that took up the offer got to beta the game, which to me seems like a massive plus, those beta'ing the game have an investment in it and will give more constructive feedback than people just looking for a bit of free play.
Purely from a personal perspective, I want to play a new mmo that offers the features being touted by MO, I know there is not a chance in hell any large dev is going to make that game in my lifetime (not when they can make another wow and cash in) so indy is all I have. Is it preferential? No, but instead of sitting on these boards continuously moaning, whinning, bitching and crying about the 'good ol days' I am more than happy to put my money where my mouth is and put some cash up for any dev willing to make that game,.... then come to these boards maon whine and bitch anyway!
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
You can do whatever you want with your money, throw it in a lake for all I care, but the fact is that Starvault sold non existing copies of the game (pre-purchases) and used the privileage to beta test their game as a bait. Hence at this moment what you are actually paying for is to beta test their game since you have not received any copy of the game yet. So depending on how you twist it you can say that you (pre)purchased the game and got beta as a bonus but you can just as much say that you paid to pre-purchase the game AND beta test it.
Add do this that it is very hard to cancel your pre-purchase (something that was NOT clear when doing the so called pre orders since pre orders are almost always very easy to cancel) then it is natural that most "normal" customers are upset. I for one pre-ordered the game and thought that if the game did not release when they, at that time, estimated it would (Q3 -09) then I would just cancel my pre-order. But since apparently this is a pre-purchase such a cancelation does not seem to be possible so theoretically they could hang on to my money indefinetely, and delaying the release for years (like Darkfall) without shipping anything to me.
And again most "normal" customers would be upset if such a thing happened.
My gaming blog