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Things I had forgotten I missed
afoaa
Member UncommonPosts: 578
After having played AoC, WaR and recently CO I on a whim downloaded Fallen Earth and after only 1 evening I sort of rediscovered things I loved about MMOs back in the old days.
Being used to playing in small boxes with everything handed to me and being pointed endlessly in the right direction for the next quest and the next all of a sudden I was standing in a freaking HUGE gameworld, with little idea about what to do or how to do it.
And then I began to explore... and learn... and discover... and getting ahead and whoa all of sudden all the good old stuff was back! _I_ had to think, _I_ had to figure out, the world wasn't just a playground with premade entertainment elements I could visit, it was a PLACE to be and do your stuff.
This is not really an add for FE but the game made me think about the general development of MMOs in the past 5 years. I have played so many MMOs in the past few years that I had stopped missing the feeling of actually being in a virtual world with other players and instead just blown through whatever was served to me on a platter.
The developers have more and more created railroading games where people are supposed to do certain things and be pushed through them in a way and a pace predesigned for them by developers and the end result of that have been that games have become more and more shallow and content poor because that design takes a lot of development time so the games always end up with too little content and have little replay value.
Why do so few development teams dare to make games that actually create a gameworld? Create a world system that is a self contained entity that create its own need for action and content? Why do they prefer to create more and more pre-scripted content that players then blow through and get bored again?
Is it because most players want it that way or it is because developers generally lack vision?
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
Comments
If you mean why isn't there more sandbox game. Maybe it's because there arn't many if any successful sandbox game(in terms of revenue).
And sandbox game typical takes longer and is more difficult to develop.
I'm so close to buying Fallen Earth. Dying for a nice little sandbox. Just need to a bit more research thanks for the post!
It is easier to build a game with pregenerated content, than build a freeform sandbox where people can do whatever they want, and still keep it balanced and fair for all parties. I think that is the main reason. You can spend more time on creating content, and less time trying it out, balancing it, discussing it brainstorming it and micromanage it to fit the world, all sorts of player types and protect it from possible exploits. And I agree... Fallen Earth was like going back to the good old days. And that is only positive.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Why?
The truth is; Idiots runs the economy. I dont say that to be rude or anything, but if it werent for idiots, the economic system would collapse in 10 minutes.
No strong, healthy and self-secure person needs anyone to tell them what tennis shoes, underarmspray or dental paste to buy, how to talk, think and behave, or in what general direction to go, what to do or how to play in a computer game.
But to be sucessful in the MMO market, you must sell your game to the big mass of idiots just like you try to sell that underarmspray to the mass of idiots thinking they will get laid and become sucessful by using it. And so the themepark MMO is born. Over and over again. The idiots dont know anything else, they just do as they are being told by the TV comercials.
There is money to be made from sandbox games as well, but since the idiots are far greater in numbers, making a themepark MMO will always yield more money. Its like making a new TV-show and you have two options. 1, put ten clearly pshychotic ppl in the same room and fill it will liquor or make a new documentary about space. What do YOU think will get the most viewers? Then tell me im wrong if you can.
I felt kind of weird when people say why isn't developer making sand box game.
They are. It's out there already. If sandbox game are so good, why arn't you playing them, and keep asking developer to make new sandbox game?
Because only one of the many sandbox games that has ever been made have good graphics and animations (EVE Online). The rest look like crap.
Hm, from my point of view it looks like the result is the reverse; the more you micromanage the less content you end up with and the more content are you forced to produce to keep your customers.
Don't misunderstand me, I don't have anything against quests, quite the contrary, I am not a sandbox fanatic at all. I just wish more developers would ask: "What fun and meaningful stuff can you do in the game when you are not questing or raiding?"
If they could just make the base world enviroment interesting enough so players don't have to quest or raid at the endgame to have any fun or feel that their actions have any meaning or purpose, then half their problems in maintaining players is gone.
Fallen Earth for example is said to have over 5000 quests in it yet you don't feel you _have_ to do a quest to progress or do something that have meaning and purpose and is fun, that is a strong base for a game and I wish more developers took some more time to think about the world before they populate it with quests.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
OK so I know you are not pimping FE, but you have sold me on it. GOing to buy it now :P
So to get back to the original topic about how the old MMOs required you to learn...
You just made me think about something. The MMO market used to be a niche market for us gamers who wanted to get INTO the world and story of the game we played. And they did a great job back then. But as we have all noticed, slowly... well not slowly, when WoW came out, we were given every little tool (and the option to create our own tools).
The MMO market went mainstream.
Sure we get more people to play with, but not in the truly fun games we remember playing.
Anyway thanks for the topic. It was nostalgic.
Treues. Or people who started with later MMOs like wow and aren't tired of the model yet. They still have fun and say people who have been playing since EQ/UO must be malfunctional if they don't enjoy WoW on planet B.
Playing: DO Trial, EVE 1 Day Buy a PLEX promo.
Played: UO, EQ, AC, GW, WoW, CoX, EQ2, AoC, WURM Online, Ryzom, Eve Online, FE Trial
Genres: 4x strategy, Sim Racing, American/Euro RPG, Fighters
Treues. Or people who started with later MMOs like wow and aren't tired of the model yet. They still have fun and say people who have been playing since EQ/UO must be malfunctional if they don't enjoy WoW on planet B.
Well we will always have those good old fashioned developers out there trying to make games for the older generation of MMORPGers. But all we need is enough of us to support those games.
But I was thinking though. Look at WoW. Yea, it hasn't had RPG element we want from the start. But they are slowly resorting back to that way because people are getting tired of the level and quest grinding. The BIGGEST new feature that has come out for MMOs are Achievements (or the Tome of Knowledge for Warhammer). Both do encourage questing and leveling but they also are there to have some fun and make a name for yourself some other ways. Now in my opinion I think this is a step toward (i think even the developers don't realize it yet) in bringing back features (or taking away new features) to MMOs. I'm not saying WoW or Warhammer are going to change cause that is just ridiculous. But there are other MMOs out there being developed that are taking note.
Well what I don't understand is why does the one exclude the other? It seems to me that it should be possible to both have themepark playstyle and a living game world that in itself contains enough for you to have fun on your own terms. Sort of well you have done some quests and do content like any themepark and all of a sudden you see someone building a house somewhere . . . how did he learn that? Could it be fun to add your own stuff to the world? And then more people could be pulled over into the the more freeform parts of the game by discovering they can do stuff on their own.
Also there is no reason to make enviroment XP silly compared to quest xp. For example in CO a 5 min instanced mission give you the same XP as killing around 2-300 mobs . . . . so the second you don't have a quest to go on you feel that all you do is pointless and wasted time there. Instead the game should keep quests yes but it should also seriously reward all the other actions you do. If you build something, farm stuff, pvp kill something or just plain grind mobs it gives viable XP that is comparable to quest XP.
It _is_ possible to have the best of both worlds, a "mainstream" themepark and heavy sandbox like elements working together and my theory is that such a design will take less development time compared to player enjoyment time than your typical MMO you see these days.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
Most sandbox games do have quests of some kind.
When UO was released, they tried something kind of neat. If you walked up to a NPC and said "rumor", they'd do a quick local search for magic items and reply something like "I hear there's a (specific magic) sword somewhere to the north east. The problem was that UO was so full of players that someone had killed the MOB with that item on and taken it as soon as you heard about it. Nowadays, UO is filled with quests. Good sandbox style quests too, not the linear stuff of most other games.
SWG had quests, although they seemed pretty basic to me, but I didn't stay long enough to get into higher level quests. SWG was barely sandbox, in my opinion. The tiered system for skills was really pretty much like a level grind. At least in my opinion.
Once upon a time....