What is fun about Lineage II?

Valhalid · January 2005

I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR FROM BASHERS

If you currently enjoy playing this game, could you please let me know what you find fun about Lineage II?

I have played EQ, AC, DAoC, CoH and AO. I have tried out The Realm, Arch Light, Horizons, SW Galaxies, Shadow Bane, Meridian 59, and The Saga of Ryzom.

This game doesnt seem to have a free trial, has a low rating and seems to support open PVP so I am reluctant to drop cash for something IM may not like.

What I like:
I like puzzles, exploring, challenging terrain and environments, tactics, having the ability to be unique as oppose to a carbon copy.

What I dislike:
I dont care for Open PVP, I prefer group vs group in which there are rewards and consequences. I dislike level grinding, aka kill rabbit, kill rabbit, kill rabbit/combine X with Y, combine X with Y, combine X with Y. While currently most MMORPGs require some amount of grinding, FFXI in my mind has gone out of its way to force grinding by making you restart from level 1 or level up two classes just to be effective and that is a perfect example of something I can not stand. Obviously I want to have fun, so a game in which you are constantly pitted against bad guys with abilities far beyond your own is not fun. Last but not least, I prefer long term goals and some RP.

Thanks in advance to anyone responding.

Nihilanth · January 2005

although i dont play it anymore, i used to and i really liked it. the only reason i quit was because i got eq2 and could only play 1 MMO at a time.

good:

-big open, seemless environment. no loading.
-beautiful scenery/graphics for the most part and the game's terrain is good.
-you can explore a lot to find new areas, but theres no DIRECT (emphasis on direct) reward.
-the combat system is pretty fun and its fast paced. it has tactical elements as well, but more by choice
-TONS of weapons/armor/other stuff that look different than each other.
-good class progression. on their website you can get a good idea of how the classes progress, and every race has completely different classes!
-CASTLE SEIGES!!!
-RIDEABLE DRAGONS!!!
-soulshot is so cool
-karma system
-community is generally really nice
-GMs that actually do their jobs!

bad:

-pretty fast leveling, but it feels like a grind to me at times
-griefers.....lots of them (but most will stop if you ask nicely)
-karma system (ya i know i have it as good too, its a really good idea but still has some kinks right now)
-not much grouping emphasis
-the economy kinda......sucks. I dunno, i just think when a n00b sword costs 64,000 adena while enemies are dropping 100 adena at a time kindof stinks.
-only one race can craft.....period....and thats dwarfs which can only be fighters. so if you wanna be a mage (mystic) crafter you're kinda out of luck.
-you cant see helmets/hats on people.

overall i really liked lineage 2, and i dont completely understand why it got such bad reviews,

hope that helps

Nihilanth · January 2005

btw ya it has fully open PVP, but there are deffinite penalities for killing an innocent person

Garrik · January 2005

OK here it is.

Good

-Stunning graphics and environments.

-Fast paced fights where tactics can be important.

-Alot of grouping for players once they get to higher levels.

-Soulshot (its a like a durg )

-Amazing castle sieges, they really give the feel of a full scale war.

-Gms that do work hard, although people knock them all the time i do belive that they try but still need to try harder. They are still bettre than the Gms in most games.

-Expansions. New content is getting added over the months so you know that the game will always have somthing new and i can promise with every chronicle update the game will become 10x better.

-Exploration. Giant maps, dungeons and towers to explore, just walking from town to town can take 20mins+ but dont fear you can also warp .

-Dragons to ride

-Great guild system, this game really shines once you get in a good guild its just such a well developed system.

-Good community for the most part, you always get the morons but since i started iv met great people who have helped me alot.(i play the Hindemith server)

-Different playable races with alot of different classes in them, eachw ith job upgrades etc and more are being added.

-Can be played on high or lower end pcs.

-Loads of weps and armour to choose from and all of it looks different and very cool. Some of the best designs iv seen in an rpg.

-Races have defined roles such as dwarfs are made to craft, this gives them a purpose of being around.

Theirs probably more but i cant think of them right now lol ill update it once i think more.

Bad

-Adena sellers.

-Bots.

-Some unbalances that are being looked into.

-Prices the game is ment to be a hard game which is a good thing but they could do with lowering the prices of equipment atleast a bit. The game can still be played though you just have to work hard and because of this it feels better in the end.

-The grind for some players can be unbarable although i dont actually feel it i just enjoy leveling and will do for a long time.

Thanks

Garrik

Valhalid · January 2005

Thank you for your response Nihilanth, it was very helpful.

In regards to some of your comments, I was wondering if you could elaborate.

good class progression. on their website you can get a good idea of how the classes progress, and every race has completely different classes!

I had explored their site and perhaps I made a hasty assumption that while each race has its own set of classes, these classes were mirror images of one another much like you would see in DAoC. An Archer by any other name is still nothing more than an Archer... The variations that I noticed were that each class had some slight variation such as regaining mana at a slower rate or doing slightly more damage. Would you let me know where I am incorrect in this assumption?

TONS of weapons/armor/other stuff that look different than each other.

Typically in other MMORPGs you will have a wide range of armor, but it is generally class specific or attribute driven in such a way that it is easy to tell from a distance, "Thats a Paladin, thats a White Mage, thats a Archer, thats a Necromancer, etc etc. " Is that the case in Lineage II or is there really a wide range of armors available within the limitations that they have setup wether that be Class/Race/Level/Or Attribute specific?

pretty fast leveling, but it feels like a grind to me at times

I have personally come to expect some type of 'grind' or periods of time in a game in which I am forced to do the same exact thing over and over again much like a person on an assembly line. The payoffs are usually the reasons any sane person would involve themselves in such an ordeal, or perhaps they just like whatever they happen to be doing on the assembly line. In the case of MMORPGs usually killing 'bad' guys is what the grind is all about. However, many MMORPGs have come up with other things to do in order to break up the monotony. Trade Skills(Dorf only that stinks ), exploration, building, taming animals (I believe that this may be part of LII), helping others, grouping for a major event (Castle Sieges?), and miriad of other things. I may have already answered this question, but can you list any of Lineage's 'breaks' or things to do to break up the grind?

the economy kinda......
still has some kinks right now

These type of statements lead me to believe that the development team does not listen to it's player base. Have they made any attempt to address these issues? Or do they constantly state "X is working as intended." etc etc. ?

It appears that you chose EQII over Lineage II, I dont mean to pry but could explain why you chose one over the other?

Thank you again for your reply, Nihilanth.

Thank you for your response Garrik , it was also very helpful.

In regards to some of your comments, I was wondering if you could elaborate.

Different playable races with alot of different classes in them, eachw ith job upgrades etc and more are being added.

When you state job upgrades, do you mean starting out as X and having the option to be come Y or Z? AKA A Rogue can eventually become an Assasin, or an Archer etc etc... Or do you mean upgrades as in new abilities?

Races have defined roles such as dwarfs are made to craft, this gives them a purpose of being around. Theirs probably more but i cant think of them right now lol ill update it once i think more

I know you said you would come back and post when you thought of others, I would earnestly like to know what the others might be when you have time.

Some unbalances that are being looked into.

IM assuming this is a PVP thing. No offense to PVPers but there mere existance seems to drive games right into the dirt with nerfs and ultimately everyone becomes vanilla. What is your persepective on the changes that have been implemented in regards to the 'past' balancing issues?

list]
[*]Different playable races with alot of different classes in them, eachw ith job upgrades etc and more are being added.
[list]

In almost every MMORPG on the market, you have what I call cookie cutters. An Agent in AO has a rifle, a thief has a dagger, clerics heal, shaman buff, blah blah blah. Although you state that there are differences, and I really do want to believe that, is there really a difference or are the characters essentially A B C D or E with no variation within the skill sets?

Thanks again for your assistance Garrik.

Garrik · January 2005

Hey Valhalid sorry for takeing a while, here are some answers to your questions, i hope these help .

-When you state job upgrades, do you mean starting out as X and having the option to be come Y or Z? AKA A Rogue can eventually become an Assasin, or an Archer etc etc... Or do you mean upgrades as in new abilities?

I should have made this more clear so here its is , basically you start as a Fighter or mystic and then at level 20 you pick what class you would like to be by takeing the specific job change quest. For example an elven fighter can take the quest to become and Elven scout, an Elven scout isnt just a bow user it uses daggers also, now at level 40 you decide what you want your true class to be for your second job change, an elven scout can then move to either Plainswalker (dagger type class) or Silver Ranger(a very good bow class). Now all races have these job changes and some are similar in little ways but each has skill difference, hp differences and play differences. You will notice their is quit alot of choice.

-I know you said you would come back and post when you thought of others, I would earnestly like to know what the others might be when you have time.

In regards to specifc roles dwarfs are the most specific for their crafting and material collecting as they have very good skills for this. Other classes such as healers have defined group roles of healing and buffing where as other characters such as orc tyrants are made for back up purposes such as damage dealing, i will list a few more below.

Dark elf Shilen knight - tanking

Light Elf Silver Ranger - pulling and big damage

Orc overlords - great in guilds as they have guild buffs and multi target buffs

Human Warlord - Gread for castle sieges, with their multi target attacks these are front line fighters.

Thats just a few of them their are lots more just try thinking of what you think they would be doing like with assassins they also damage deal .

-IM assuming this is a PVP thing. No offense to PVPers but there mere existance seems to drive games right into the dirt with nerfs and ultimately everyone becomes vanilla. What is your persepective on the changes that have been implemented in regards to the 'past' balancing issues?

Although all classes are capable in PvP at the moment their is one UBER (as they like to say) class which are the daggers users such as assassins and plainswalkers, at the moment they are highly over powerd but this will be sorted soon , its just as C2 released this happend really. Archers have always been good in pvp but they are also expected to be in most MMORPGS just due to the fact that they have high damage weps and have long range attacks. Over all i wouldnt say that the inbalances are Terrible they just need sorting out and im sure they will be.

-In almost every MMORPG on the market, you have what I call cookie cutters. An Agent in AO has a rifle, a thief has a dagger, clerics heal, shaman buff, blah blah blah. Although you state that there are differences, and I really do want to believe that, is there really a difference or are the characters essentially A B C D or E with no variation within the skill sets?

New skill sets have been added with C2 and more will be coming, but for the best answer to your question yes their are differences but more so with some classes for example the orc version of an assasin is the claw using Monk(lvl20 job)/Tyrant(lvl40 Job) they are alot different from a plainswalker or an assassin play wise, skill wise and stat wise. Some of the other classes have similaritys for balancing issues, like i said archers are strong classes and because of this they need a few of the same skills to be equal although at higher level some would say Dark elves get better skills than Light Elves (Light elves are still better ). The main differences are stats, casters are affected most by this Dark Elves cast fast with lower damage, light elves Cast high damage but slower and Humans they are in the middle now orcs on the other hand are a mix of magic/melee so thats a big difference. All in all id say alot of classes have differences, but sadly some are still similar. All classes have their strengths and weaknesses, pick one you like and enjoy it .

I hope this helps, please just use this lightly to help yourself make the descision. I love the game you may or may not im just telling you my thoughts of it . The most important thing is ignoring the bad press for this great game it really has alot of potential for gamers who like a challenge.

Take care

Garrik

P.S if you do get it, give it a good chance and join a good server like Hindemith.

Vepo · January 2005

I played Lineage 2 during Closed Beta, Open Beta and a few months into retail I even had the pleasure working for NCSoft as a volunteer forum moderator for there official US forums (got a free collectors dvd edition for my hard work). To be honest Valhalid what you said on your first post I can see you won't enjoy Lineage 2 and these are the reasons why:

1) Character features are limited to 2 faces, 4 types of hair, 2 hair colours. You can't change your character size or weight. To get straight to the point you will see many carbon copies as you put it.

2) Group vs Group fighting is very rare unless you are in a good guild that is at war with other guilds which are also good or you have the chance to be in a guild taking part in a castle siege which only happens once every 2 weeks.

3) The leveling in Lineage 2 is ridiculos. Level 1 to 20 is pretty easy as I used to do it within a few days in a good spot, but once you get over level 20 the leveling become harder and harder to be honest to get from level 1 to 75 will take you I would say 6 months+ if you do it legally, oh and to level you will need to kill the same creatures for hours on end to days on end.

4) Lineage 2 is full of bot users, farmers which is illegal. Lineage 2 also has the largest number of idiots I've seen in 1 MMORPG from all the MMORPG's I've played. Scammers are in high numbers so it's very hard to trust anyone in Lineage 2.

There are a lot more things I could post about Lineage 2, but to be honest though I could say it's best your avoid Lineage 2 and try something else like World of Warcraft or Everquest 2 or even go back to one of your old accounts in the MMORPG's you have played.

I still have my account with Lineage 2 which has my Spellhowler and Plainswalker because they may change something in future chronciles which may improve the overall gameplay and remove the annoying very long grind which made me leave Lineage 2. Spending 2 weeks grouping getting good amounts of xp to get 1 level can get to you.

Garrik · January 2005

Like i said Lineage 2 is a hardcore game and it is difficult. I dont totally agree with the above post (although the char creation is true at the moment) but as for it being hard to find people to trust lol i totally dont agree with that, their are LOTS of great people in this game especially from what iv seen on the server i play (Hindemith) but of course as in every mmorpg their are idiots. Everyone has their own opinions just go with what you think mate, thats the best you thing you can do dont let anyone put you off or spoon feed you into getting it.

Goodluck

Garrik

norbi99 · January 2005

One thing that was not mentioned until now about Lineage 2 is that there is now US dev. team. Small patches and bug fixes are almost nonexistent in L2. I played the game for 6 months, but I hardly remember them patching or fixing bugs. One time they did an 'emergency fix' but only after somebody posted on the main forum boards how to dupe money and items. Even this fix did not fix the problem, only made some change on the character selection menu so the posted method would not work. You could still dupe if you knew how to... Apparently this bug was in game and was reported since closed beta. I think it was fixed when Chronicles 1 came out, a couple of months after the game was released.

So if you find a bug in the game, don;t hold your breath untill it will get fixed.

Relicxxx · January 2005

I play L2 almost daily.

Just wanted to say, dont listen to Vepo. His sense of what is good and bad may be slightly warped. The reason I am telling you this is I know him from L2 and was in a clan with him where he scammed an honest member out of some very expensive (roughly 25-35 million adena) B grade gear (B grade meaning level 52+ to wear w/o penalty) and a weapon.

Im not going to bash on Vepo for what he did thats his own deal. However I do think you are looking for an honest opinion about Lineage 2 and I have my doubts as to Vepos honesty.

Good gaming to you whatever you decide to play.

::::39::

Valhalid · January 2005

Thank you once again Garrik your response was exceptionally helpful. I would like to make some 'assumptions' based on the information your provided. If you would let me know if I am wrong or not I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for your candor Vepo , although it does seem like you focused more on the negatives allot of your assumptions seem accurate and I will keep them in mind.

Thank you as well norbi99 your observation seems to indicate that while the company is attempting to support users but their attempts are not sufficient for the need. Personally, I would rather game developers never fix bugs, exploits or modify game formulas (AKA the way spells work, hammers to damage, etc etc.). I like the game to stay the same once its released, so that you can depend on things working the way they were intended. New content aside. I hate it when you choose a profession and suddenly its gimped or doesnt work the way it was originally developed. In my mind, PVP is usually what causes classes to go through horrid redesigns that can gimp or alter the entire functionality of a profession. All of this is done after the game has been released which in my mind is unacceptable. So in part IM glad they dont respond to issues quickly.

Thank you Relicxxx I appreciate the light your trying to shine on the issue. Although I do accept some of what Vepo had to offer as valid and applicable, because he focused so much on the negatives I knew that his vision of the game would be colored. I tried to be clear that I did not want to hear from the bashers, which unfortunately Vepo clearly is.

Garrik, here are my assumptions:

Assumption 1]
A Dark elf Shilen knight is no different than any other Dark elf Shilen knight . In other words, they all have the same skills and capabilities, armor and weapons aside. If I see a Dark elf Shilen knight looking for a group, I can assume that he is a good tanker, and that he will be wielding ... (Just guessing) a two handed sword. I would never see a Dark elf Shilen knight who wasnt a good tanker, or wielding a staff or anything other than a two handed sword.

IssueL: IM not sure if you are familiar with Fantasy XI but in that game, when you change jobs you have to start leveling from level 1 with that job. Is that the case here?

Assumption 2]
While a Dark elf Shilen knight can tank the best, a human Paladin would make a decent tank.

Issue:In otherwords, only Dwarves can use trade skills. There are other classes that can tank but not as well. But only dwarves can use trade skills, its not possible or viable (Like a mage trying to tank) to use trade skills. Perhaps a valid example is: Orc overlords - great in guilds as they have guild buffs and multi target buffs as long as nobody else can employ guild or multi target buffs?

QuestionHuman Warlord - Gread for castle sieges, with their multi target attacks these are front line fighters.

I did not see human warlords as being a class, are there more classes than what is displayed on the main site? Lineage II Profession Progression

If IM correct Are there any abilities in the game, besides trade skills, that can only be used or applied by a specific race?

Thanks again Garrik you have been exceptional! Thus far I am excited about getting a copy of Lineage II, and I look forward to some day meeting you on Hindemith.

Vampir · January 2005

i played L2 and got a character with karma so ridiculously high that it was not funny. the reason i had this karma was not im a Assholic player it is mearly that the chinese adena farmers were horrible. for example in Elven fortress the Varool foulclaw quest was farmed 24/7 by a chinese person who would chase me out going "PK PK PK PK". that when i got to higher levels i went in their and let them attack me while i was dressed up as a lower level. so that when i killed them with my top grade equip i did not buy money on ebay for. i killed them and i did this at every shift change. that is when a new non english speaking player takes the controls. i did this for 4 days till tehy caught on. they i got my character to 55 adn sold all my top B grade equip roughly 30million adena worth to buy a lot of cheap PK equip and i went crazy killing over 500 bots and farmers, each time i woud get killed and have someone of my friends deliver me a new cheap equip set. i loved doing this, then my character de leveld from 55 to 24 working of karma. or i think thats how he de leveld. im not sure since its been a while since i played. i quit first to go back into DAOC tehn into WoW. so i had fun but it was not hte fun i wanted i did not becoming "Batosai the manslayer" for those who watch anime.

Vladamir the impaler

binary_0011 · January 2005

farmers and bots are server depandent. Teon is the worst, avoid that server . It is a server made for european.(i does NOT mean avoid european)

Kain server are pretty bad too.

Bhazir · January 2005

[quote]Originally posted by binary_0011
[b]farmers and bots are server depandent. Teon is the worst, avoid that server . It is a server made for european.(i does NOT mean avoid european)

Kain server are pretty bad too.[/quote]
Perhaps we can get a list of wich servers have a good/bad community, where the farmers are and the populated ones?

Btw nice info in this thread, still waiting for mmorpg.com to send my present to me ::::02::

"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"

hodge12 · January 2005

The grind is ridiculous.

I bought six million adena and I used bots but I still never made a character high enough for a second class change.

Also there are certain classes which are useless.

I would reccomend using bots to level and farm for cash. There are some good programs out there which can help you.

Maxxx · January 2005

Originally posted by hodge12
The grind is ridiculous.
I bought six million adena and I used bots but I still never made a character high enough for a second class change.
Also there are certain classes which are useless.
I would reccomend using bots to level and farm for cash. There are some good programs out there which can help you.

rofl...

Maxxx - www.L2orphus.com Moderator

Maxxx · January 2005

http://www.l2orphus.com/skills.php
Correct list of Classes and skills
but the skills aren't updated yet for Chronicle 2 yet.

Maxxx - www.L2orphus.com Moderator

vargtass · January 2005

I've been playing Lineage 2 since the open beta, and even though I keep on playing, I don't really have any reason to do it. I don't like this game, and ima give you my reasons.

First off the community is the worst community I've ever seen in an MMORPG. Every second character you see will have a name that includes something like "1337kill3r, XxSwordxX, Loveu2000" and so on... The players overall seems to be very immature compared to other MMORPGs I've played (EQ, DAoC, AO and a few others) judging from the fact that when someone kills you in PvP combat (which rarely happens btw, but I'll get to that later) they "wtfpwn3d" you, and you are suddenly the biggest newbie they've ever seen, and they seem to want the whole server to know that.

There is really no such thing as puzzles and riddles in Lineage 2. Everything seems to be basic and simple. Theres not much equipment at all in this game. Let's say you're playing a knight from lvl 1-20, then theres like 4-5 different swords that you can use, and thats it. Same thing with 20-40, like 4-5 different weapons and the same amount of armors. You will look just the same as a lot of other players and you will be able to see what class they're playing most of the times. The skills seem to be very basic aswell, and theres not even that many of em. From what I've seen, the different players who are playing the same class, is like identical to each other, other than the fact that someone might have better equipment than someone else, even though most people have pretty much the same equipment. I was never able to give my character an identity. Whatever level I was (im about 60 now) I was always looking and playing the same as every other player playing the same class as me.

The environment is yeah, kinda big and stuff, but the character movement makes it all useless. I live in europe, and I hope that you don't, because if you do, you will barely be able to move at all in this game. First off you can't strafe, at all. Secondly, the only way to move in the game is by using the mouse since the arrow keys and the W, A, S, D keys are unusable unless you want to go around the same corner about 5 times before you actually make it to the other side of it since the pathfinding is almost non-existing. The mouse only movement makes it hard to target people and move fast in the heat of combat, and it also makes you feel kind of distanced to the game since you can't control your character the way you would want to. Moving around in the so called "great environment" is just a pain in the *** if you ask me.

The game is filled with non-english speaking people and bots who will continue to grief you through the entire game and who's only purpose seems to be getting money, selling it online, and keep on griefing you.

Lots of people are talking about how good the PvP system is, but really, I don't see how they can say such thing. There is no PvP in this game, outside castle sieges which only happens once every 2 weeks, and clan war, unless you wanna spend days recovering from the time you PvP'ed. Yes, days. If you pvp someone, they will most likely don't fight back unless they're absolutely sure they will kick your buttocks, and if they don't, and you decide to keep killing them anyway, you will turn "red". This means that anyone can hit you and kill you without penalties and you will loose pieces of your equipment when you die to them, along with hours of EXP.

There ain't really that much to do in this game except from grinding. The game lacks enough PvE encounters and it's just not worth it to PvP.

But, like I said. Even though this post explains how I feel and I don't have a reason to keep playing the game, I still do, hoping that the game will change in the future and might actually become fun.

afrOman · January 2005

Good

-Great Graphics

-Great Character looks

-Great skills and looks

-Big World for exploring

Bad

-After you get to lvl 17 so much grinding

-Items are so over priced

-Bots

-Farmers

-Pkers and very annoying

-Cant enter the arena without getting killd by a higher lvl

-Cant make enough money

binary_0011 · January 2005

dont go to orphus. go to :

http://lineage.warcry.com/

and

http://l2vault.ign.com/

Maxxx · January 2005

orphus > warcry

Maxxx - www.L2orphus.com Moderator

Valhalid · January 2005

Thank you both for those links, they are excellent sites! I like the tools on the warcry site, but the layout on the orphus site is awesome.

Thank you to everyone who replied, I appreciate your input.

binary_0011 · January 2005

Originally posted by Maxxx
orphus > warcryMaxxx - www.L2orphus.com Moderator

Orphus = _|_

zamoth_bg · January 2005

dont waste money on this game. try sth else. grinding,grinding, at least if grinding was fun but it is not. even x2 money/xp server i am playing i feel the grind very strong. i bot most of the time although it is illegal. and there is almost no tactics in PvP. lvl and equipment determins who wins (lag of course ) The only thing I like is the Castle Sieges(which i have not participated in, yet) and how the chracters look (although everyone looks the same). dont waste your money on it,yet. maybe on c4-5 things will be different but... hey what games are going to come out til then?

You can like it but you should be prepared for grindin`

Beta Tested: Lineage2,WoW
Trailed: Acherons Call 2, EVE online
Subscribed/Active: EVE online->Prakhgoth Lineage2 (freeserver)
Anticipate: GuildWars,SEED

zamoth_bg · January 2005

I forgot to say that there almost no quests?! they are so few and unrewarding. It even looks strange.

I forgot one good thing of the game. DRAGONS lol

Beta Tested: Lineage2,WoW
Trailed: Acherons Call 2, EVE online
Subscribed/Active: EVE online->Prakhgoth Lineage2 (freeserver)
Anticipate: GuildWars,SEED

Maxxx · January 2005

he doesn't want to hear from BASHERS

Maxxx - www.L2orphus.com Moderator

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