Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
EVE Online: Corrupting The Incorruptable
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
There's a fledgling democracy in EVE Online and Kevin Schram reports on it and some of the controversies that have surrounded it and the game so far.
In part because of the t20 controversy, CCP announced in March 2008 that a Council of Interstellar Management would be created. Nine players would be elected to the Council and would be flown to CCP headquarters in Iceland and would hold court with CCP developers and be able to voice the concerns and suggestions of the games' player base.
Since the creation of the CSM in 2008, they have claimed several vital improvements in EVE as their doing. First and for most, being the skill training queue. For the uninitiated, skills in EVE are based on 'setting a skill to train' and then waiting for a timer, as opposed to a certain game with elves and mages where you kill butterflies for hours, grinding your way to a higher skill level. The timer on these skills range from just 30 minutes for some low level ones to 25 days for some higher level ones. Formerly, if you weren't online to change your skills when the previous one ran out, your character would stop skilling. The skill queue, which the CSM claims as a product of its existence, allows players to plan skills to train up to the next 24 hours.
;)
Read it all here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Played this game for 5 years, stopped a few months ago, and news like this just wants me to come back to it all. But alas, I know it will eat my life alive..
It would be nice to have a Indy or Pve guy/gal on the CSM. Maybe the two sub-par aspects of Eve (mining and missions) will get even more of an overhaul.
I know a lot of players think Mining and Missions aren't actually apart of the real game of Eve, I disagree.
We only feel this way because both feature sets are lame atm.
Epic arcs were a step in the right direction for missioning but those players need more and Mining needs a total revamp. Right now Mining is basically popular with the college kids since they could study while Afk farming Isk.
Mining needs to be more active and less like watching a pretty picture of a Lazer hitting a rock.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Being banned from a video game is not a particularly big deal in someone's every day life.
Being FIRED, however, is. I am confident that t20 was disciplined internally by CCP. I'm not surprised that CCP didn't turn it's employee's discipline into a PUBLIC SPECTACLE by sharing the information. I bet t20 was given less responsibility, less authority, and put under oversight. I don't think CCP was obligated to tell us.
Interesting article, confirms what I always suspected, players more often then not diplay their real world character flaws in a game world.
Saying that he's only human and couldn't resist temptation is what I expect from a person associated with the game's pirate base and this just goes to show.
Of course, there's been other big scandals, like the recent one at the EVE bank that had nothing to do with pirates, so I can't lay the blame on that player base.
We'll always need oversight of our leaders both in game and in real life, as all too often the fail to live up to the trust we put in them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Certainly does not speak well for the pirate factions. Can't believe that idiot thinks he can run again, he made all those factions that supported him look bad.
It's funny how EvE Online mimicks real life. I've often said if you can't trust someone in the game it's unlikely you'd trust him in RL.
As far as voting is concerned, the reason I don't vote for CSM members is because I have no idea who they are. Maybe they should be forced to campaign to get a position on the council, at least then I'd know what they stand for. Then again as in RL, that would be like asking me to take the word of a politician at face value.
Other CSM members requested a perma ban for the offender. CCP went with something like 30 days ban which is understandable as CCP can not suddenly change from lame to rigorous. t20 scandal was a disgrace but also left CCP in bad position so that they can not punish anyone with what they deserve as t20 saw no consequences even though he changed the course of the game. Each new offender can only raise this when prosecuted and get away lightly.
Besides CSM is a joke, CCP is a money making company and they will push what will make them money instead of what a minor group of players want which is as it should be in capitalism.
EVE = game with huge global potential
CCP = garage company that has no clue on how good their product is
Edit: BOB was not brought down by a spy. It was brought down by displeased director and their own lameness and lack of fighting spirit. BOB died during MAX campaign, rest was just "finish him" move by Goons.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
First, a few credits have been given to the CSM that they probably don't deserve. One of those is that the hinting that they might be responsible for the sovereignty changes. CCP has been discussing these internally for years (longer I'm sure) as noted in their 'Future developments' section of the website. Yes, the CSM and the 'player voice' system has gotten a few features implemented or maybe moved up from the back burner to the head of development. They are just there to make requests as long as CCP agrees to them. (CCP has shot a few ideas down completely, too.)
Second, 'Larkonis' did what he did as a player in a game. Great, no biggy. He was banned as a punishment for violation of an NDA. (Even without permabanning, I doubt CCP will actually allow 'Larkonis' to run for CSM or in another position requiring an NDA, either.) However, his real name was attached to it as part of a contractual obligation. What happens when a potential employer pulls this information up and sees the direct violation of the terms of a contract? What happens when a close friend might be on trial for something and has to rely on his friend as the character testimony to find him innocent but a lawyer gets the character witness thrown out because of indiscretion with previous legal affairs? (Yes, I'm pulling the extremes, but life is all about what happens at the extremes. Nobody really notices the middle much.) My point, basicly, is that even in game actions can reflect on the real life character of a player. It's one thing when it's a short game of cards with total strangers, another when you will be remembered for what you do or say.
Lastly, no matter what you do to police corruption, there will always be corruption. Greed and lust for power are two of the most powerful drives in the human ego.
This is actually completely incorrect.
The problem with the T20 situation was that it wasn't discovered quickly enough, and when it was discovered most of the senior management was out on leave (Icelandic employees get a lot of leave time).
T20 had been with CCP for a long time, and the people that remained in charge while the senior managment didn't want to fire him for fear of what would happen when everyone returned from leave. T20 was "diciplined" however, which probably meant deletion of his character, removal of dev permissions on the live server, and some other kinds of internal sanctions.
Because he was punished for his transgression, when management returned they couldn't fire him because (as far as I can gather) there are laws preventing the double punishment of an employee in Iceland. At any rate, CCP brass couldn't fire T20 without exposing themselves to legal ramifications and thus tried to keep the whole situation in-house.
Then a player managed to find information about this whole mess (after the fact) on the BoB forums (through seeing director PMs I believe) , exposed it all, and watched the crap hit the fan.
After handling the PR very poorly for a while, CCP eventually came as clean as they could and promised to institute an Internal Affairs department to oversee all developer and other priviledged accounts as they relate to the game.
It's because of the establishment of the IA department that the subject of this article was caught in short order. I know for fact that a few GMs and a couple of the live event team volunteers (back when events took place in-game) have been investigated and terminated by IA as well for taking advantage of their positions.
CCP faced a serious challenge and fell on their face. They proceeded to pick themselves back up and make the best amends possible to ensure the situation wouldn't happen again. IA ensures that will be the case.
What I said is 100% correct. CCP didn't punish t20 harsh enough for whatever reason. Management on holidays or marsian invasion, who cares. t20 did something far worse then exploiting a bug and got away with a slap on his wrist. And they didn't even pull the BPOs he spawned from the game. They didn't and they could have.
CCP is still small-minded company. And CSM is a joke. But EVE is the best game imho.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
CCP handled that situation.
People need to relax and stop acting like the guy came into their home and raped their wifes and dog.
Jesus people it's only a videogame, get a life.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
t20 didn't grab a female coworker's ass or steal from the company bank accounts. Sure, you could argue he 'tampered' with the company product, but I don't think he did anything to deserve a firing.
*shrug*
Believe whatever misguided thing you like, but you're still wrong. Nobody knows what T20 got hit with besides CCP management and T20 himself - so saying it was a slap on the wrist is pure conjecture on your part. There are punitive actions other than firing.
The BPOs in question were in fact removed from the game and recycled into the lottery system. What CCP didn't do was attempt to remove the ISK generated for BoB by those blueprints, as that action would have been extremely disruptive to the game overall (if not impossible). The BPOs in question weren't even very lucrative for the most part anyway.
www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp
www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp
Also, the point of gaming, traditionally, was either to gamble or to develop strategic (ie lateral) thinking skills, not to sit down and 'have fun'. I believe that tradition lives on. I see in every player who sits down to win at whatever goal they set for themselves, be it build an industrial empire, build a nullsec empire, whatever the player enjoys.
By saying 'it's just a game' is likely minimizing whatever goals you're setting for yourself. (If you didn't have a reason for playing, would you even be playing?)
PS. Not targeting you personally metalhead, but the statement in general. No hard feelings?
I'm surprised a few pirate types from EVE haven't replied here. I understand that players in-game hate pirates, but think about this... if those pirates were not in EVE, would EVE be the same game? Pirates, scammers, mercs, and all of the shady characters of EVE fill an integral part of the EVE universe, just as do the miners, the haulers, the contractors, the military types, the researchers, etc. And just because someone choses to play one of these rebels in a game doesn't necessarily mean that they are criminals or have those tendencies in RL.
I almost always play a 'good' character in MMOs, but ocassionally, its fun to step over to the other side. In LOTRO, even though I headed a good kinship, I also stepped over and played a 'bad' creep once in a while. Back in my EQ and EQ2 days, most of my characters were good, but a few were thrown in for a change of pace who were evil through and through. In EVE, I have numerous characters. The two mains are good (for the most part
), but I have plans to play one alt (or possibly a third main) as a shady pilot, though I have not yet decided to what extent. Does this indicate that I'm a criminal in RL? Or does it simply reveal that I like to enjoy all aspects of the games that I play, and that often it's exciting to live on the edge and do things in a game world that one would never even consider doing in RL?
My point is that having a pirate player on the CSM is no more a 'bad' thing as having any other player type. In this case unfortunately, that pirate did apparently have some RL tendencies too since he disregarded his legal responsibility as outlined in the NDA, but that doesn't mean that all players who chose the pirate profession would do the same, and some might even help the game by giving insight into how these players operate leading to better ways for the lawful players to protect themselves against them.
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
I can't say any wrong on Larkonis Trassler. The problem was, that he was too drunk to do this stuff carefully. He should have asked friends to buy the items for him, or use unknown new alts for this. He failed, he fell. Afaik, his character wasn't banned, he was just asked to resign from CSM. I think, if will have the chance to go for CSM again, he will have the same chance to be elected as before.
The guy was stupid, and got what he deserved. I mean, you'd think he'd be smart enough to spread out his transactions over a period of time, not just go back and blow 2.5bil in one fell swoop. Sheesh. If you're going to scam, then do it right.
Only reason I don't play EVE anymore is because of the whole t20 thing. He should have been fired immediately. I do miss the game from time to time, but I'm not giving my money to a company which conducts itself in such a manner.
And no, I never scammed anyone, nor had the inclination to do so. Worst I'd do was conduct some lowsec piracy in a T2 fitted Rifter/Rupture from time to time.