Games aren't easier, the problem is that old school gamers are more experienced and it is much easier to access information online. 10 years ago you couldn't go online and find a database with every single quest, mob, droprate, and tactics to defeat said mob.
There is really no way to get around this except by making enemies unpredictable.
What's with people claiming EVE is some sort of challenging game?
It just puts real life time limits on everything, so your character is basically useless for several years while you log in once a week to buy the skill points you want then log out.
But a real MMORPG like EQ on the other hand required skill, didn't put real life time limits on everything in the game to prevent people from reaching the end of the game.
EVE is just a chat room with a skill training queue, not a challenging MMORPG at all.
It reminded me of horrible games like WoW where you log in and you keep doing pointless quests over and over for some goal. In WoW you get exp, in EVE you grind quests over and over for ISK and wait for your characters skills to catch up to what you can buy with your ISK.
What a lousy game, putting those artificial time limits in the game. Might have actually been a decent game had they not had a skill training queue. Stupid trash company
And those charts are inaccurate, what makes you think WoW and other MMORPGs are requiring more skill as time goes on? Seems like horrible companies like Blizzard have only dumbed down MMORPGs and made them require LESS skill.
40 man -> 25 man -> 10 man along with making the content substantially easier
What's with people claiming EVE is some sort of challenging game? It just puts real life time limits on everything, so your character is basically useless for several years while you log in once a week to buy the skill points you want then log out. But a real MMORPG like EQ on the other hand required skill, didn't put real life time limits on everything in the game to prevent people from reaching the end of the game. EVE is just a chat room with a skill training queue, not a challenging MMORPG at all.
It reminded me of horrible games like WoW where you log in and you keep doing pointless quests over and over for some goal. In WoW you get exp, in EVE you grind quests over and over for ISK and wait for your characters skills to catch up to what you can buy with your ISK.
What a lousy game, putting those artificial time limits in the game. Might have actually been a decent game had they not had a skill training queue. Stupid trash company
And those charts are inaccurate, what makes you think WoW and other MMORPGs are requiring more skill as time goes on? Seems like horrible companies like Blizzard have only dumbed down MMORPGs and made them require LESS skill. 40 man -> 25 man -> 10 man along with making the content substantially easier
And this, gentlemen, shows exactly why we have an endless procession of horribly dull unimaginative MMOs being produced.
Not only are current games being made more streamlined, they're also being designed with the same devices we're all familiar with.
So it's kind of a double-whammy. Games are being made easier to get into, and so they're easier to play and exhaust the content - plus you already know, from experience with other games, how to solve a lot of the content.
It's gone from a non-linear experience to a linear one. Gotta get that carrot, amirite?
But we can't have games with no carrots in them, can we? .... or can we?
Maybe we need "carrot generators" in our games, so people will use those to make their own fun instead of eating up the piles of carrots we have to keep making. Intrinsic rewards are infinite, extrinsic ones tend to be very limited (IE: only as much as the developers can make).
Isn't that what a sandbox tried to capitalize on? Some "carrot generating device?"
I think they're all using the wrong generators (complex character creation, lots of character advancement possibilities, etc.). There's one right in front of us and we're not capitalizing on it. It's called "people."
Other people are entertainment, games just need devices to make that entertainment accessible.
What's with people claiming EVE is some sort of challenging game? It just puts real life time limits on everything, so your character is basically useless for several years while you log in once a week to buy the skill points you want then log out. But a real MMORPG like EQ on the other hand required skill, didn't put real life time limits on everything in the game to prevent people from reaching the end of the game. EVE is just a chat room with a skill training queue, not a challenging MMORPG at all.
It reminded me of horrible games like WoW where you log in and you keep doing pointless quests over and over for some goal. In WoW you get exp, in EVE you grind quests over and over for ISK and wait for your characters skills to catch up to what you can buy with your ISK.
What a lousy game, putting those artificial time limits in the game. Might have actually been a decent game had they not had a skill training queue. Stupid trash company
And those charts are inaccurate, what makes you think WoW and other MMORPGs are requiring more skill as time goes on? Seems like horrible companies like Blizzard have only dumbed down MMORPGs and made them require LESS skill. 40 man -> 25 man -> 10 man along with making the content substantially easier
EQ was just a big grind, from what I've heard (and what little I've played). Obviously an enjoyable one, but a grind nonetheless. You and so many other oldschoolers keep mistaking patience for skill, and it's quite amusing. The only real 'challenge' in 40-man raids is getting 40 people together in the first place.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Enlighten us on how a 40 man in Everquest takes/took more skill than a 40 man in WoW. Tell us how in a way that doesn't involve mindless level/equipment grinding for it. I'm willing to bet you can't.
Oh, and in regards to EVE, please play it for more than 5 minutes before bashing it. Sure its got many faults, but not requiring skill? That isn't one of them. Your comment proves you probably didn't even play it at all.
The way I see it, it doesn't matter how easy MMOs have become. The problem to me is that MMO has turned into "Online world in which other people play, but don't care about anyone else and don't really care about the lore, and are only interested in 'mastering the game' before quitting."
Most MMOs thus far have not been designed to be friendly towards real adventurers, roleplayers and lore-addicts. They haven't had extremely advanced character creation (save for a handful) and the class systems have stagnated in the still waters of dullness. MMOs should have been the visualization in 3D of what PnP is/was. They should allow you to be anything or anyone you want, doing whatever you want within their created world, wherever you want.
To quote myself: "If I want to be an orc bard, I'll bloody well be an orc bard!"
Thus far, the only MMO that has come close to this is Champions Online, but of course there are huge limits to what I can be and where I can be that person. Fallen Earth appears to allow you to do whatever you want, whenever you want within the confines of their world. The character creation was a bit limited to me but I could get beyond that. Besides that, it seems to be relatively open and free, not totally a sandbox but enough to enjoy it if you're a true adventurer or roleplayer...
It doesn't matter one way or the other if Fallen Earth is easy or not (I don't think it's easy, it's not for casual people but it's not insanely difficult), it's got a lot of elements that I know I and many others would thoroughly enjoy.
APB will probably allow for some pretty awesome gameplay, though I don't know if you can classify searching an alleyway or run down building as adventuring. Will it be easy? No idea, probably not. I imagine it will rely heavily on player skill as it's supposed to be a MMO-FPS/TPS/RPG...
I think most MMOs are relatively tough to master, save for the warmachine that is WoW. It is easy to those who wish it, and difficult for those who want a challenge (to a degree; leveling is easy any way you cut it). Free Realms seems pretty easy, but it isn't the standard for MMOs.
To sum up my reply, I think the OP really only thought of WoW when writing his post as I don't know any other REALLY easy MMOs out there. To each their own though. MMOs are a game, not a lifestyle...
MMO's aren't easier. They're just less tedious, less time consuming and more focused on providing challenge without unnecessarily harsh penalties for failure.
Sounds like the definition of easier to me.
QFT.
Also, Ilvaldyr, most of the challenge was the tediousness. It was making sure everything was perfect so that you were at maximum efficiency. Planning was key. Nowadays, most MMOs (obvious exceptions aside...I don't want any "EvE doesn't do that" responses...) handle your stats for you. Where's the challenge there? You're automatically the best you can be. Without the "tedious planning and training" where's the REAL challenge?
it scares me that anyone would find tedious planning and training fun, i don't play a GAME to be bored waiting for people to get on and do something, i'd rather go read a book and be entertained for my money.
I also find regular console RPGs like Persona, Chrono Trigger and the first six Final Fantasy games where tedious planning is necessary to beat the game fun. There's obviously a market. Your point?
Now isn't this an interesting development. Just what are we talking about in this thread?
A decrease in challenge which I would define as content requiring less individual skill.
An increase in accessibility which I would define as content requiring less timesinks.
If it's the former then I disagree entirely with the statement that MMOs are getting too easy. Some of the most challenging content that I've experienced in my ~10 years of MMO gaming has been in the last couple.
If it's the latter then I agree; MMOs are getting "easier" in that they require less people, less administration and are much more accessible. None of which I consider to be a bad thing.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Now isn't this an interesting development. Just what are we talking about in this thread? A decrease in challenge which I would define as content requiring less individual skill.
An increase in accessibility which I would define as content requiring less timesinks. If it's the former then I disagree entirely with the statement that MMOs are getting too easy. Some of the most challenging content that I've experienced in my ~10 years of MMO gaming has been in the last couple. If it's the latter then I agree; MMOs are getting "easier" in that they require less people, less administration and are much more accessible. None of which I consider to be a bad thing.
We're talking about both, although only the former is a problem nowadays. It's a turn for the better and the worse at the same time.
I bet you experienced that most challenging content at the end of those games too- yeah, the game can't be challenging from the start, nor in the middle, only at the end. It's a problem.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Now isn't this an interesting development. Just what are we talking about in this thread? A decrease in challenge which I would define as content requiring less individual skill.
An increase in accessibility which I would define as content requiring less timesinks. If it's the former then I disagree entirely with the statement that MMOs are getting too easy. Some of the most challenging content that I've experienced in my ~10 years of MMO gaming has been in the last couple. If it's the latter then I agree; MMOs are getting "easier" in that they require less people, less administration and are much more accessible. None of which I consider to be a bad thing.
We're talking about both, although only the former is a problem nowadays. It's a turn for the better and the worse at the same time.
I bet you experienced that most challenging content at the end of those games too- yeah, the game can't be challenging from the start, nor in the middle, only at the end. It's a problem.
I can understand why you might think that but surprisingly, no.
The most recent occasion was while toying around with a rogue alt in WoW. My main is a feral druid, so i haven't really played much with my rogue due to the similarity in playstyles but the fancy struck me so I had a go.
I was surprised at the amount of challenge in the lower levels when trying orange quests. An unexpected respawn or a bad pull and my little leather-clad stabmonkey was in serious trouble. The challenge is still there, it's just avoidable via methods such as twinking and/or sticking to green quests.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I can understand why you might think that but surprisingly, no. The most recent occasion was while toying around with a rogue alt in WoW. My main is a feral druid, so i haven't really played much with my rogue due to the similarity in playstyles but the fancy struck me so I had a go. I was surprised at the amount of challenge in the lower levels when trying orange quests. An unexpected respawn or a bad pull and my little leather-clad stabmonkey was in serious trouble. The challenge is still there, it's just avoidable via methods such as twinking and/or sticking to green quests.
Yeah, you can still make your own challenges. But why bother when there's an easy way to do it? I don't usually go and make things hard for myself just because I can, but if the challenge is real then I'll be up for it.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I can understand why you might think that but surprisingly, no. The most recent occasion was while toying around with a rogue alt in WoW. My main is a feral druid, so i haven't really played much with my rogue due to the similarity in playstyles but the fancy struck me so I had a go. I was surprised at the amount of challenge in the lower levels when trying orange quests. An unexpected respawn or a bad pull and my little leather-clad stabmonkey was in serious trouble. The challenge is still there, it's just avoidable via methods such as twinking and/or sticking to green quests.
Yeah, you can still make your own challenges. But why bother when there's an easy way to do it? I don't usually go and make things hard for myself just because I can, but if the challenge is real then I'll be up for it.
Well, for the same reason that I don't play single-player games on Very Easy setting or with cheats.
A challenge is no less real for being optional; if you want the challenge and it is available then why would you ever choose to avoid it purely on the basis that doing so is possible?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Players now are too used to being spoon fed. Devs are not going to risk 10 milion dollars or 50 or whatver to create a challenging MMORPG and see how everybody complains about having a life blah blah, which is not really the problem because you can spend 2 hours a week and still want something challenging, no, the problem is that they really want to get everything easily.
totally agree with you here, its seems like certain players now these days think they should be handed stuff instead of working/grinding for the goal.
played: EQOA,EQ1, EQ2, SWG, DAOC, FFXI, GW, WoW, Eve, Vanguard, COH/COV, Pirates of Burning Sea, Pirates of the Carribean, Freerealms, AOC, Warhammer, UO, Secondlife (LMFAO), The Matrix Online. Waiting for: SWTOR, STO
So if you want to complain MMO's are too easy, that is fine. But I suggest you analyze how you play them. Do you twink your character? Do you use add-ons that play the game for you? Do you read websites that explain the hints and steps of doing something in detail? If so, then you are deliberately making the game easier for you. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you HAVE TOO.
If I did that, I'd be making the game challenging, yes, but more time consuming as well, bringing me to where we left off; games were hard but it took longer to do things too, making it very uncasual-friendly. What if I wanted the challenge but without the timesinks that came with it? I don't have the time for that kind of commitment anymore, so even if I did what you told me to do, it wouldn't help with my issue.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Players now are too used to being spoon fed. Devs are not going to risk 10 milion dollars or 50 or whatver to create a challenging MMORPG and see how everybody complains about having a life blah blah, which is not really the problem because you can spend 2 hours a week and still want something challenging, no, the problem is that they really want to get everything easily.
totally agree with you here, its seems like certain players now these days think they should be handed stuff instead of working/grinding for the goal.
You put 'players' and 'working' in the same sentence ! That's the problem of MMOs
Welcome to satisfying the market of the "me now" generation. I tend to believe that older gamers (not talking 50s here, more like 30 and above) like a lot more challenge in their games than the younger folk. There will be exceptions to the rule, but ultimately these games are built for their strongest markets. If the younger generation wanted more challenge, devs would make it so.
Sadly true.
I started with EQ in 99'...I'm 33 years old and I MISS the days of hell levels (somewhat) and having to sit back and think of a strategy for getting around tough mobs. It took me a year to get to level 65 (When that was the cap), but once there, I, as well as others at the cap, were fewer and were looked up to by lower levels for advice, help, etc. You appreciated your character more and it gave you more attachment. What attachment do you have to a character in today's MMO's when you get to the top in lesss than a month? This was because it was TOUGH to get there. Now anyone can make top level in less than a month in most cases and your just another meaningless face in the crowd either bored to death, or whining for more content because you raced to the finish.
I also remember LOVING the quests because the gave you an "idea" of where to go and what to do. You didn't have them tell you EXACTLY where to go (Not in all cases at least. Sometimes they did) AND give you MMO GPS with dots, etc.
They are becoming more like console games and less like MMORPG's. Sigh...
EDIT: Sure, you can find ways to make them harder for some challenge...but should you have to? I mean to the sheer degree and lengths you'd have to in order to do so in today's MMO's? They are all TOO easy. Part of the fun in older MMO's was the satisfaction in finally finding a way to defeat that tough mob...which were regular trash mobs just to GET TO the boss! You didn't attack orange and red mobs to find the challenge, because if you did it meant death 9 times out of 10.
I mean, it's ok to have a bunch of easy stuff for the communities fun factor in that sense, and for the players that are new to MMO's. But having practically EVERYTHING that way = boredom more than satisfaction. At least for me and some of the older crowd I suspect. This is why a lot of communities don't gel. Players don't stick around long enough because they blow through content and get impatient waiting for more, or simply get bored and move on to the next MMO. So very little of the community know one another.
As others have said, most of this newer generation is too use to being spoon fed, like them giving trophies in sports to the losing team too (WTF is THAT about?!). Where do you learn to take the good with the bad? Where is the learning? I remember when games made you have to THINK and weren't mindless. Challenge = satisfaction and the feeling of accomplishment more so than simply being able to blow through everything with no consequences or challenge at all just to feel 1337 and as if you accomplished some great feat...IMO.
We are just going through growing pains as an industry. All Developers are (whether they admit it or not) are trying to compete with the 10 Million+ subs guerilla in the room.
Eventually 2 thinks will happen.
1. They give up on matching WOW success and focus on niche gaming that makes them steady progressive profit.
2. They manage some how to make a WOW type success game... Before Blizzard launches a Diablo or heavens forbid a StarCraft MMO. LOL both these games would cause some problems in terms of market Cap of subs for other developers.
Comments
Games aren't easier, the problem is that old school gamers are more experienced and it is much easier to access information online. 10 years ago you couldn't go online and find a database with every single quest, mob, droprate, and tactics to defeat said mob.
There is really no way to get around this except by making enemies unpredictable.
QFT !
What's with people claiming EVE is some sort of challenging game?
It just puts real life time limits on everything, so your character is basically useless for several years while you log in once a week to buy the skill points you want then log out.
But a real MMORPG like EQ on the other hand required skill, didn't put real life time limits on everything in the game to prevent people from reaching the end of the game.
EVE is just a chat room with a skill training queue, not a challenging MMORPG at all.
It reminded me of horrible games like WoW where you log in and you keep doing pointless quests over and over for some goal. In WoW you get exp, in EVE you grind quests over and over for ISK and wait for your characters skills to catch up to what you can buy with your ISK.
What a lousy game, putting those artificial time limits in the game. Might have actually been a decent game had they not had a skill training queue. Stupid trash company
And those charts are inaccurate, what makes you think WoW and other MMORPGs are requiring more skill as time goes on? Seems like horrible companies like Blizzard have only dumbed down MMORPGs and made them require LESS skill.
40 man -> 25 man -> 10 man along with making the content substantially easier
And this, gentlemen, shows exactly why we have an endless procession of horribly dull unimaginative MMOs being produced.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
It's never as good as the first time.
Not only are current games being made more streamlined, they're also being designed with the same devices we're all familiar with.
So it's kind of a double-whammy. Games are being made easier to get into, and so they're easier to play and exhaust the content - plus you already know, from experience with other games, how to solve a lot of the content.
It's gone from a non-linear experience to a linear one. Gotta get that carrot, amirite?
But we can't have games with no carrots in them, can we? .... or can we?
Maybe we need "carrot generators" in our games, so people will use those to make their own fun instead of eating up the piles of carrots we have to keep making. Intrinsic rewards are infinite, extrinsic ones tend to be very limited (IE: only as much as the developers can make).
Isn't that what a sandbox tried to capitalize on? Some "carrot generating device?"
I think they're all using the wrong generators (complex character creation, lots of character advancement possibilities, etc.). There's one right in front of us and we're not capitalizing on it. It's called "people."
Other people are entertainment, games just need devices to make that entertainment accessible.
EQ was just a big grind, from what I've heard (and what little I've played). Obviously an enjoyable one, but a grind nonetheless. You and so many other oldschoolers keep mistaking patience for skill, and it's quite amusing. The only real 'challenge' in 40-man raids is getting 40 people together in the first place.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Enlighten us on how a 40 man in Everquest takes/took more skill than a 40 man in WoW. Tell us how in a way that doesn't involve mindless level/equipment grinding for it. I'm willing to bet you can't.
Oh, and in regards to EVE, please play it for more than 5 minutes before bashing it. Sure its got many faults, but not requiring skill? That isn't one of them. Your comment proves you probably didn't even play it at all.
Edit: Agree 1000%, Malcanis.
Just make different servers, some as we have now "EZMODE" and the a few with mobs that need groups to kill, yes GROUPS!
Be a bit social and group !
with choice of servers we can choose!
Dont cross the board nerf the games, SOE anyone?
Let soloers kill green mobs? why not ehh?????????
MMORPGS as we have now are shit
The way I see it, it doesn't matter how easy MMOs have become. The problem to me is that MMO has turned into "Online world in which other people play, but don't care about anyone else and don't really care about the lore, and are only interested in 'mastering the game' before quitting."
Most MMOs thus far have not been designed to be friendly towards real adventurers, roleplayers and lore-addicts. They haven't had extremely advanced character creation (save for a handful) and the class systems have stagnated in the still waters of dullness. MMOs should have been the visualization in 3D of what PnP is/was. They should allow you to be anything or anyone you want, doing whatever you want within their created world, wherever you want.
To quote myself: "If I want to be an orc bard, I'll bloody well be an orc bard!"
Thus far, the only MMO that has come close to this is Champions Online, but of course there are huge limits to what I can be and where I can be that person. Fallen Earth appears to allow you to do whatever you want, whenever you want within the confines of their world. The character creation was a bit limited to me but I could get beyond that. Besides that, it seems to be relatively open and free, not totally a sandbox but enough to enjoy it if you're a true adventurer or roleplayer...
It doesn't matter one way or the other if Fallen Earth is easy or not (I don't think it's easy, it's not for casual people but it's not insanely difficult), it's got a lot of elements that I know I and many others would thoroughly enjoy.
APB will probably allow for some pretty awesome gameplay, though I don't know if you can classify searching an alleyway or run down building as adventuring. Will it be easy? No idea, probably not. I imagine it will rely heavily on player skill as it's supposed to be a MMO-FPS/TPS/RPG...
I think most MMOs are relatively tough to master, save for the warmachine that is WoW. It is easy to those who wish it, and difficult for those who want a challenge (to a degree; leveling is easy any way you cut it). Free Realms seems pretty easy, but it isn't the standard for MMOs.
To sum up my reply, I think the OP really only thought of WoW when writing his post as I don't know any other REALLY easy MMOs out there. To each their own though. MMOs are a game, not a lifestyle...
Sounds like the definition of easier to me.
QFT.
Also, Ilvaldyr, most of the challenge was the tediousness. It was making sure everything was perfect so that you were at maximum efficiency. Planning was key. Nowadays, most MMOs (obvious exceptions aside...I don't want any "EvE doesn't do that" responses...) handle your stats for you. Where's the challenge there? You're automatically the best you can be. Without the "tedious planning and training" where's the REAL challenge?
it scares me that anyone would find tedious planning and training fun, i don't play a GAME to be bored waiting for people to get on and do something, i'd rather go read a book and be entertained for my money.
I also find regular console RPGs like Persona, Chrono Trigger and the first six Final Fantasy games where tedious planning is necessary to beat the game fun. There's obviously a market. Your point?
Now isn't this an interesting development. Just what are we talking about in this thread?
A decrease in challenge which I would define as content requiring less individual skill.
An increase in accessibility which I would define as content requiring less timesinks.
If it's the former then I disagree entirely with the statement that MMOs are getting too easy. Some of the most challenging content that I've experienced in my ~10 years of MMO gaming has been in the last couple.
If it's the latter then I agree; MMOs are getting "easier" in that they require less people, less administration and are much more accessible. None of which I consider to be a bad thing.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
We're talking about both, although only the former is a problem nowadays. It's a turn for the better and the worse at the same time.
I bet you experienced that most challenging content at the end of those games too- yeah, the game can't be challenging from the start, nor in the middle, only at the end. It's a problem.
We're talking about both, although only the former is a problem nowadays. It's a turn for the better and the worse at the same time.
I bet you experienced that most challenging content at the end of those games too- yeah, the game can't be challenging from the start, nor in the middle, only at the end. It's a problem.
I can understand why you might think that but surprisingly, no.
The most recent occasion was while toying around with a rogue alt in WoW. My main is a feral druid, so i haven't really played much with my rogue due to the similarity in playstyles but the fancy struck me so I had a go.
I was surprised at the amount of challenge in the lower levels when trying orange quests. An unexpected respawn or a bad pull and my little leather-clad stabmonkey was in serious trouble. The challenge is still there, it's just avoidable via methods such as twinking and/or sticking to green quests.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Yeah, you can still make your own challenges. But why bother when there's an easy way to do it? I don't usually go and make things hard for myself just because I can, but if the challenge is real then I'll be up for it.
Yeah, you can still make your own challenges. But why bother when there's an easy way to do it? I don't usually go and make things hard for myself just because I can, but if the challenge is real then I'll be up for it.
Well, for the same reason that I don't play single-player games on Very Easy setting or with cheats.
A challenge is no less real for being optional; if you want the challenge and it is available then why would you ever choose to avoid it purely on the basis that doing so is possible?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
totally agree with you here, its seems like certain players now these days think they should be handed stuff instead of working/grinding for the goal.
played: EQOA,EQ1, EQ2, SWG, DAOC, FFXI, GW, WoW, Eve, Vanguard, COH/COV, Pirates of Burning Sea, Pirates of the Carribean, Freerealms, AOC, Warhammer, UO, Secondlife (LMFAO), The Matrix Online.
Waiting for: SWTOR, STO
If I did that, I'd be making the game challenging, yes, but more time consuming as well, bringing me to where we left off; games were hard but it took longer to do things too, making it very uncasual-friendly. What if I wanted the challenge but without the timesinks that came with it? I don't have the time for that kind of commitment anymore, so even if I did what you told me to do, it wouldn't help with my issue.
totally agree with you here, its seems like certain players now these days think they should be handed stuff instead of working/grinding for the goal.
You put 'players' and 'working' in the same sentence ! That's the problem of MMOs
Sadly true.
I started with EQ in 99'...I'm 33 years old and I MISS the days of hell levels (somewhat) and having to sit back and think of a strategy for getting around tough mobs. It took me a year to get to level 65 (When that was the cap), but once there, I, as well as others at the cap, were fewer and were looked up to by lower levels for advice, help, etc. You appreciated your character more and it gave you more attachment. What attachment do you have to a character in today's MMO's when you get to the top in lesss than a month? This was because it was TOUGH to get there. Now anyone can make top level in less than a month in most cases and your just another meaningless face in the crowd either bored to death, or whining for more content because you raced to the finish.
I also remember LOVING the quests because the gave you an "idea" of where to go and what to do. You didn't have them tell you EXACTLY where to go (Not in all cases at least. Sometimes they did) AND give you MMO GPS with dots, etc.
They are becoming more like console games and less like MMORPG's. Sigh...
EDIT: Sure, you can find ways to make them harder for some challenge...but should you have to? I mean to the sheer degree and lengths you'd have to in order to do so in today's MMO's? They are all TOO easy. Part of the fun in older MMO's was the satisfaction in finally finding a way to defeat that tough mob...which were regular trash mobs just to GET TO the boss! You didn't attack orange and red mobs to find the challenge, because if you did it meant death 9 times out of 10.
I mean, it's ok to have a bunch of easy stuff for the communities fun factor in that sense, and for the players that are new to MMO's. But having practically EVERYTHING that way = boredom more than satisfaction. At least for me and some of the older crowd I suspect. This is why a lot of communities don't gel. Players don't stick around long enough because they blow through content and get impatient waiting for more, or simply get bored and move on to the next MMO. So very little of the community know one another.
As others have said, most of this newer generation is too use to being spoon fed, like them giving trophies in sports to the losing team too (WTF is THAT about?!). Where do you learn to take the good with the bad? Where is the learning? I remember when games made you have to THINK and weren't mindless. Challenge = satisfaction and the feeling of accomplishment more so than simply being able to blow through everything with no consequences or challenge at all just to feel 1337 and as if you accomplished some great feat...IMO.
You can't get as many "followers/idgets" if you make it too hard for the Etards
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
We are just going through growing pains as an industry. All Developers are (whether they admit it or not) are trying to compete with the 10 Million+ subs guerilla in the room.
Eventually 2 thinks will happen.
1. They give up on matching WOW success and focus on niche gaming that makes them steady progressive profit.
2. They manage some how to make a WOW type success game... Before Blizzard launches a Diablo or heavens forbid a StarCraft MMO. LOL both these games would cause some problems in terms of market Cap of subs for other developers.
Faranthil Tanathalos
EverQuest 1 - Ranger
Star Wars Galaxies - Master Ranger
Everquest2 - Ranger WarhammerOnline - Shadow Warrior
WOW - Hunter
That's right I like bows and arrows.