considering lotro has 5% of people that have bought the game and stayed playing for any amount of time and as far as i am aware those numbers are still dropping, i disagree with this statement 'MMO fans wouldn’t have stuck with it this long had it not done a few things right.'
and therefore disagree with it's place as number 1 especially since war and aoc aren't even included in the list(war has what twice the subs and from what i hear aoc is starting to catch up with the likes of lotro and eq2), for some reason this site does seem to be overyly biased towards lotro and maybe even any named game with the previews of swtor and even sto in mind
really should have title the article my favourite 10 mmo's since wow
considering lotro has 5% of people that have bought the game and stayed playing for any amount of time and as far as i am aware those numbers are still dropping, i disagree with this statement 'MMO fans wouldn’t have stuck with it this long had it not done a few things right.' and therefore disagree with it's place as number 1 especially since war and aoc aren't even included in the list(war has what twice the subs and from what i hear aoc is starting to catch up with the likes of lotro and eq2), for some reason this site does seem to be overyly biased towards lotro and maybe even any named game with the previews of swtor and even sto in mind really should have title the article my favourite 10 mmo's since wow
I look forward to your newsletter that inside details how you know the subscription numbers turbine has, and the sources of the numbers by turbine staff.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Very well rounded and done with an open mind! Agree with LoTRO and GW especially:) Penguin and Wizards surprised the heck outta me but then I thought to myself," What the heck, just cus it's a kiddie MMO doesn't make it NOT a valid MMO. They are real MMO's and have just as much entertainment value as the adult MMO's do".
I'm also gonna send links to those two kiddie MMO's to my sister who has a 10 year old son, so thanks for the heads up.
You chose 10 excellent "Mainstream" games and I commend you for it! My first thought when I clicked on the link was the list was going to be a "Kiss the PvPers Butt" kinda list and was really surprised! Not that your a butt-kisser per se! That's just what I expected the list to be like on this very vocal site:)
First off, LotRO deserves that #1 spot With that aside, I pretty much agree with tho whole list but I do think EQ2 should be up there. I know i launced about 2 weeks before WoW but it wasnt ready. SoE learned a lot and worked hard on their game to make it where it is today (kinda like Vanguard imo). I think EQ2 could have been a notible exception given it is right there with WoWs launch
LOTRO doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia like Aion does. Hell Aion even has surpassed the game in West since release, so why isnt Aion considered number 1? All the numbers suggest it should be.
Aion doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia either... Nobody knows what that number is based on.
LotrO is actually launching in China and have had 3 million beta testers. Maybe we should use that number aswell?
Good list but I miss DDO up there. If horrible games like Vanguard and Potbs is up there I see no reason not to include DDO, RoM or WAR.
Vanguard is far from Horrible. learn to keep up with the times.
Upgrading my LOTRO sub to lifetime today. THey are adding in DX11 support early next year!
Are YOU kidding????? Where the f... is Age of Conan? And seriously i didn't even hear half of the games on this list!! If you made the list just to wake up the discussion you made it!
This post is just par for the course for what you can expect in AoC. It is one of the main reasons why I left that game and maybe one of the underlying reasons why it is left off of lists like these and doesn't get more respect. That game, unfortunately, has to have the worst community of players I've ever experienced in an MMO.
A decent game, even though it had/has it's share of problems (some of which may have been good for the MMO industry as a whole). I enjoyed the game, but absolutely hated the community.
Club penguin is one of the most successful MMO's of all time. Again, the responses here just show how jaded, and simply uninformed the experts Forum users here on the MMORPG forums are. The game may not be fore you, however that means jack shit to its success or popularity.
Learn to distinguish the two.
Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?
Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.
If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...
Club penguin is one of the most successful MMO's of all time. Again, the responses here just show how jaded, and simply uninformed the experts Forum users here on the MMORPG forums are. The game may not be fore you, however that means jack shit to its success or popularity.
Learn to distinguish the two.
Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?
Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.
If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...
It is also funny you think that most MMO's are for "grownups".
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Clearly the OP was just stating "his" opinion, this list is not based on any fact or figures because though I do agree with most he must be drinking the fanboi juice on a few of these..Aion being the major one. How do you base success on three weeks worth of play? You need to post a retraction son.
Both WaR and AoC easely beats Aion imo. We are talking rpg games vs a grind game. War have more depth, you actually feel you build a character and improving by choises with gear and settings and AoC should have been on the list, for no other reason ( and imo there is) then for its combat system. Its the only game where every pull are semi intense and actually feels like a fight. Its what new game needs, inovative combat with player participation, not 2-3 buttons rotations which dosnt vary from mob to mob or from player to player. Hack n slash belongs to last milinium; Diablo does it better then some of the games made today, decades later.
I appreciate Dana's perspectives. I think it was a list based more on the impact that each game has on the industry, rather than the opinions of the players.
Fallen Earth is on there, which I agree with.
Vanguard, however being a game I was able to fully enjoy, I'm not sure it has had a very large impact on the industry. There were a lot of great things in Vanguard, but I think a lot of developers avoid the concepts in Vanguard like the plague. Not because the concepts were terrible, but because they were implemented poorly.
My only beef with the List is LOTRO at number 1.... What has LOTRO done to the industry besides provide another very boring and stale gaming experience?
<hides behind cover>
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
I appreciate the list and think it was well done and well thought out, but I do have to ask why WoW's counterpart that came out in the same year was not mentioned? And by that counterpart I am, of course, referring to City of Heroes.
After the same 5 years WoW has been around, I would argue that COH was not only a groundbreaking game (first true Superhero MMO) but that it set a standard in that genre that has still not been met. COH has been a great success in its own right and I feel really should have been added to your good list.
I am glad to see you did have Aion.. if any game can challenge Cuild Wars and WoW it is this game.. beautiful world, awesome story, unique pvpve core... it will continue to do well in my opinion.
DDO was a strange one. Turbine themselves gave up on the "original" game so it would be a bit much to include that. The new game is pretty new and while I realize so are FE and Aion, perhaps it is a personal blind spot, but I have less of a read on how the new DDO is doing.
Ya. It's one of those MMO's where you start playing it and have fun but then you realise that there's not enough content so then you either gotta pay money to get it or read the forums on how to get most of it the hard way (in free 2 play) but takes a long time to get. Either way, it's worth a try. Even for just a month or two. If you're one of those guys like me who are getting burnt out on MMO's, DDO is something to hold you over for a little while. While I know this has nothing to do with the topic, the only MMO's I ever got addicted to (in order) was Ultima Online, Planetside, City of Heroes, Guild Wars and Eve Online. For some reason, I just couldn't get into WoW. I think it's because of the graphics? Plus when I tried to get into it, the community was really bad. No help whatsoever and the only thing people seemed to want to do was brag about themselves. It was quite weird... And I played the beta for Aion and had a ton of fun. I can easily see myself playing it in the future. But not right now because of financial problems. I need to concentrate on making money in real life plus going back to school. I did noticed a couple other Korean MMO's that looked interesting but I'm not sure if they will be released in the US. One is Continent of the 9th and the other is Blade and Soul. If they are ever released in the US, I may just forget about Aion lol...
Dana, I appreciate the list and think it was well done and well thought out, but I do have to ask why WoW's counterpart that came out in the same year was not mentioned? And by that counterpart I am, of course, referring to City of Heroes. After the same 5 years WoW has been around, I would argue that COH was not only a groundbreaking game (first true Superhero MMO) but that it set a standard in that genre that has still not been met. COH has been a great success in its own right and I feel really should have been added to your good list. I am glad to see you did have Aion.. if any game can challenge Cuild Wars and WoW it is this game.. beautiful world, awesome story, unique pvpve core... it will continue to do well in my opinion. just my .02 influence.
City of Heroes came out before WoW, so it was as simple as that. I stuck to the launch date cut off pretty strictly. CoH came out in April, EQII about 2-3 weeks before WoW. That's why both were not included.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Both WaR and AoC easely beats Aion imo. We are talking rpg games vs a grind game. War have more depth, you actually feel you build a character and improving by choises with gear and settings and AoC should have been on the list, for no other reason ( and imo there is) then for its combat system. Its the only game where every pull are semi intense and actually feels like a fight. Its what new game needs, inovative combat with player participation, not 2-3 buttons rotations which dosnt vary from mob to mob or from player to player. Hack n slash belongs to last milinium; Diablo does it better then some of the games made today, decades later.
You're not making any sense. You talk about grinding being a bad thing but yet you enjoy Diablo. If you ask me, grinding is only bad when it's not enjoyable and Aion is an enjoyable grinding MMO. Plus, I doubt you seen all the content in Aion. It seems to be mainly about PVP. I had a lot of fun in the beta. A LOT more fun than I ever had in WoW! And if you really wanted to, you can RP in Aion...
Thanks for tossing Fallen Earth a bone Dana. As long as the devs at Icarus keep the same level head they've been exhibiting so far and stick to their original plan, this game will build slow and steady and be a winner.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
It was a good list, based on one person's critiera and almost all of us would have a different opinion.
No need to take it so serious, it was meant to generate some discussion and be entertaining, no need to get all hurt if your favorite game wasn't high enough (or even included ) on the list.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I read this before I headed out, and what I have to say has been eating at me all day. I am by no mean an EQ2 fanboy as I've only played it for about 3 months total over the last two years, and I understand the desire to adhere to the time line, so with that being said...
You talk about how the MMO landscape has changed, and I think that reflects more in EQ2 than any game I can think of. It launched a few weeks before WoW, and has since released 5 expansions, almost being marketed as a release each time. What started out being very group centric, unforgiving at times, is now a shadow of what it was designed to be when it launched.
I think that the EQ2 you can log in a and play now is most definitely a post WoW reaction to how the industry has changed.. the bulk of the game you have now is post-WoW.
I read this before I headed out, and what I have to say has been eating at me all day. I am by no mean an EQ2 fanboy as I've only played it for about 3 months total over the last two years, and I understand the desire to adhere to the time line, so with that being said... You talk about how the MMO landscape has changed, and I think that reflects more in EQ2 than any game I can think of. It launched a few weeks before WoW, and has since released 5 expansions, almost being marketed as a release each time. What started out being very group centric, unforgiving at times, is now a shadow of what it was designed to be when it launched. I think that the EQ2 you can log in a and play now is most definitely a post WoW reaction to how the industry has changed.. the bulk of the game you have now is post-WoW.
Just one more time...
EQ2 launched before World of Warcraft.
The article was about the top 10 games launched after World of Warcraft.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Hmm, Dana I must ask, why is runescape not on the list?
EDIT:
Sorry if this has already been asked/answered, I didn't want to read through 16 pages lol. (If it has been answered, please tell me which page it is on)
No offense to any of these MMOs (except penguin club lol but i do understand why you put it) but sadly I think this list just shows how bad the quality of MMOs are. I mean all of the 147 games have lasted for however long so they obviously have fans who play them but I don't think any game is quite as complete as WoW. Perhaps money does matter.
Comments
considering lotro has 5% of people that have bought the game and stayed playing for any amount of time and as far as i am aware those numbers are still dropping, i disagree with this statement 'MMO fans wouldn’t have stuck with it this long had it not done a few things right.'
and therefore disagree with it's place as number 1 especially since war and aoc aren't even included in the list(war has what twice the subs and from what i hear aoc is starting to catch up with the likes of lotro and eq2), for some reason this site does seem to be overyly biased towards lotro and maybe even any named game with the previews of swtor and even sto in mind
really should have title the article my favourite 10 mmo's since wow
I look forward to your newsletter that inside details how you know the subscription numbers turbine has, and the sources of the numbers by turbine staff.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Excellent list Dana!
Very well rounded and done with an open mind! Agree with LoTRO and GW especially:) Penguin and Wizards surprised the heck outta me but then I thought to myself," What the heck, just cus it's a kiddie MMO doesn't make it NOT a valid MMO. They are real MMO's and have just as much entertainment value as the adult MMO's do".
I'm also gonna send links to those two kiddie MMO's to my sister who has a 10 year old son, so thanks for the heads up.
You chose 10 excellent "Mainstream" games and I commend you for it! My first thought when I clicked on the link was the list was going to be a "Kiss the PvPers Butt" kinda list and was really surprised! Not that your a butt-kisser per se! That's just what I expected the list to be like on this very vocal site:)
LOTRO doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia like Aion does. Hell Aion even has surpassed the game in West since release, so why isnt Aion considered number 1? All the numbers suggest it should be.
Aion doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia either... Nobody knows what that number is based on.
LotrO is actually launching in China and have had 3 million beta testers. Maybe we should use that number aswell?
Good list but I miss DDO up there. If horrible games like Vanguard and Potbs is up there I see no reason not to include DDO, RoM or WAR.
Vanguard is far from Horrible. learn to keep up with the times.
Upgrading my LOTRO sub to lifetime today. THey are adding in DX11 support early next year!
This post is just par for the course for what you can expect in AoC. It is one of the main reasons why I left that game and maybe one of the underlying reasons why it is left off of lists like these and doesn't get more respect. That game, unfortunately, has to have the worst community of players I've ever experienced in an MMO.
A decent game, even though it had/has it's share of problems (some of which may have been good for the MMO industry as a whole). I enjoyed the game, but absolutely hated the community.
Your fail comment, failed.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?
Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.
If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...
My gaming blog
Dana, interesting list you have there and I like how you looked at several genres, not just fantasy or AAA titles and such.
Well done!
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?
Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.
If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...
This has zero to do with anything.
But, to answer your question. Yes.
I am not sure how you think Disney movies have not impacted, or are incomparable to other great films. Considering they have made some of the most beloved films of all time, and not all of them were for children.
It is also funny you think that most MMO's are for "grownups".
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Clearly the OP was just stating "his" opinion, this list is not based on any fact or figures because though I do agree with most he must be drinking the fanboi juice on a few of these..Aion being the major one. How do you base success on three weeks worth of play? You need to post a retraction son.
Both WaR and AoC easely beats Aion imo. We are talking rpg games vs a grind game. War have more depth, you actually feel you build a character and improving by choises with gear and settings and AoC should have been on the list, for no other reason ( and imo there is) then for its combat system. Its the only game where every pull are semi intense and actually feels like a fight. Its what new game needs, inovative combat with player participation, not 2-3 buttons rotations which dosnt vary from mob to mob or from player to player. Hack n slash belongs to last milinium; Diablo does it better then some of the games made today, decades later.
I appreciate Dana's perspectives. I think it was a list based more on the impact that each game has on the industry, rather than the opinions of the players.
Fallen Earth is on there, which I agree with.
Vanguard, however being a game I was able to fully enjoy, I'm not sure it has had a very large impact on the industry. There were a lot of great things in Vanguard, but I think a lot of developers avoid the concepts in Vanguard like the plague. Not because the concepts were terrible, but because they were implemented poorly.
My only beef with the List is LOTRO at number 1.... What has LOTRO done to the industry besides provide another very boring and stale gaming experience?
<hides behind cover>
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
Dana,
I appreciate the list and think it was well done and well thought out, but I do have to ask why WoW's counterpart that came out in the same year was not mentioned? And by that counterpart I am, of course, referring to City of Heroes.
After the same 5 years WoW has been around, I would argue that COH was not only a groundbreaking game (first true Superhero MMO) but that it set a standard in that genre that has still not been met. COH has been a great success in its own right and I feel really should have been added to your good list.
I am glad to see you did have Aion.. if any game can challenge Cuild Wars and WoW it is this game.. beautiful world, awesome story, unique pvpve core... it will continue to do well in my opinion.
just my .02 influence.
Ya. It's one of those MMO's where you start playing it and have fun but then you realise that there's not enough content so then you either gotta pay money to get it or read the forums on how to get most of it the hard way (in free 2 play) but takes a long time to get. Either way, it's worth a try. Even for just a month or two. If you're one of those guys like me who are getting burnt out on MMO's, DDO is something to hold you over for a little while. While I know this has nothing to do with the topic, the only MMO's I ever got addicted to (in order) was Ultima Online, Planetside, City of Heroes, Guild Wars and Eve Online. For some reason, I just couldn't get into WoW. I think it's because of the graphics? Plus when I tried to get into it, the community was really bad. No help whatsoever and the only thing people seemed to want to do was brag about themselves. It was quite weird... And I played the beta for Aion and had a ton of fun. I can easily see myself playing it in the future. But not right now because of financial problems. I need to concentrate on making money in real life plus going back to school. I did noticed a couple other Korean MMO's that looked interesting but I'm not sure if they will be released in the US. One is Continent of the 9th and the other is Blade and Soul. If they are ever released in the US, I may just forget about Aion lol...
City of Heroes came out before WoW, so it was as simple as that. I stuck to the launch date cut off pretty strictly. CoH came out in April, EQII about 2-3 weeks before WoW. That's why both were not included.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
You're not making any sense. You talk about grinding being a bad thing but yet you enjoy Diablo. If you ask me, grinding is only bad when it's not enjoyable and Aion is an enjoyable grinding MMO. Plus, I doubt you seen all the content in Aion. It seems to be mainly about PVP. I had a lot of fun in the beta. A LOT more fun than I ever had in WoW! And if you really wanted to, you can RP in Aion...
Thanks for tossing Fallen Earth a bone Dana. As long as the devs at Icarus keep the same level head they've been exhibiting so far and stick to their original plan, this game will build slow and steady and be a winner.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
It was a good list, based on one person's critiera and almost all of us would have a different opinion.
No need to take it so serious, it was meant to generate some discussion and be entertaining, no need to get all hurt if your favorite game wasn't high enough (or even included ) on the list.
Good job Dana, was an interesting read.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Woot! LOTRO is number 1.
I read this before I headed out, and what I have to say has been eating at me all day. I am by no mean an EQ2 fanboy as I've only played it for about 3 months total over the last two years, and I understand the desire to adhere to the time line, so with that being said...
You talk about how the MMO landscape has changed, and I think that reflects more in EQ2 than any game I can think of. It launched a few weeks before WoW, and has since released 5 expansions, almost being marketed as a release each time. What started out being very group centric, unforgiving at times, is now a shadow of what it was designed to be when it launched.
I think that the EQ2 you can log in a and play now is most definitely a post WoW reaction to how the industry has changed.. the bulk of the game you have now is post-WoW.
Just one more time...
EQ2 launched before World of Warcraft.
The article was about the top 10 games launched after World of Warcraft.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Club Penguin looks fun xD I haven't ever heard of it... looks cute from that one picture.
Hmm, Dana I must ask, why is runescape not on the list?
EDIT:
Sorry if this has already been asked/answered, I didn't want to read through 16 pages lol. (If it has been answered, please tell me which page it is on)
No offense to any of these MMOs (except penguin club lol but i do understand why you put it) but sadly I think this list just shows how bad the quality of MMOs are. I mean all of the 147 games have lasted for however long so they obviously have fans who play them but I don't think any game is quite as complete as WoW. Perhaps money does matter.