Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

"China bans foreign investment in online gaming"

13

Comments

  • LansidLansid Member UncommonPosts: 1,097

     HOLY SHIT!

    Because China hates Online gaming, the Doomsday Clock just moved to 2 Till Midnight! Oh Noes!

    -.-

    Everything they've done in the name of Communism was fine... but THIS... my God people will NOT stand for!

    Ok ok... but seriously I don't understand why this is such a big deal.

    "There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."

  • lisubablisubab Member Posts: 670

    You are right, it is NOT a big deal.  It is a game.  I have issues playing WoW when I am in China.  But I choose to live in China.  Not a big deal, not at all.

    And yes I took history as one of my subjects 30 years back.  I still remember my stuffs, and NO, communist manifesto is NOT one stupid man's vision of communism.  It is semi correct that Marxism is naive in basing itself partly on human nature.  But subsequent economic studies by many non marxist economists seems to draw many interesting findings from marxist arguements (surplus value) which goes deep into our current foundation of economic theories.  Try Morishima's books.

    Communism is just a word.  Anyone can use it.  Marxism, Leninism, Maoism and so on are ideas that seems to be regularly associated with communism IN CHINA.  Not Stalinism, definitely not.  Is Communism == antidemocracy?  From Marxism no, from the current way things run in China, hard to say.  Actually China is very liberal, so long as you do not threaten the gov't.  There are so many things you can do in China, be it bad or good, that you cannot imagine doing in the States.  Is democracy really that good as a means of sharing power?  Democracy is already deeply rooted in US in the form of election, but go to the poor urban dwellers, what did they share?  Democracy is rather a means to keep the rich on top of the poor in US, its the complimentary tool of capitalism, and that is why capitalist economies frequently tout election format democracy as god send.

    Well enough diversion, we are no longer talking games.  Not the best place to talk non games, here.

  • Death1942Death1942 Member UncommonPosts: 2,587

    you hear that?

     

    that's the sound of the future prospects of the Chinese gaming industry going down the drain.

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • lisubablisubab Member Posts: 670

    When Germany started the second world war, no one can muster an army that can stand up to the panzers.  US is so far off, and with Japan hovering on the horizon, with the pacific fleet devastated, it seems impossible for US to manage both fronts at once.

    US does have the missile advantage on paper.  If US shoots all missiles and if they all hit, and if all inbound missles are intercepted in the right place, round 1 would be a victory for US.  But is US invulnerable?  Look at Califonia, on the water supply and concentration of population.  Is that not an invitation to doom?  Any move that removed Califonia off the map of the earth will remove USA as a power effectively, and how hard is it to hurt Califonia?

    Taking it on a longer perspective, if US goes to war with China, how long can US last.  Good luck rebuilding your own manufacturing systems, you might even need to import bullets from China to continue the war till then.

    Taking it on a global perspective, given the rogue state image of US now, and the pacifist path China adopts, will US be fighting more than one enemy?

    No, US will not start a war, not without further provisions.  NATO is no going to help if US invades China, what diplomacy trick US needs to pull of to make it a plausible war?  Good luck.

    I won't go back if US starts a war with any other country, not just China.  Since the unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Iraq, I never plan to go back anyway.  Me and many friends have pulled our business out of US and there is no talks about looking back.

  • lisubablisubab Member Posts: 670
    null
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230

    The US would lose a war with china, not to china but to russia who would do cleanup.

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556
    Originally posted by lisubab


    You are right, it is NOT a big deal.  It is a game.  I have issues playing WoW when I am in China.  But I choose to live in China.  Not a big deal, not at all.
    And yes I took history as one of my subjects 30 years back.  I still remember my stuffs, and NO, communist manifesto is NOT one stupid man's vision of communism.  It is semi correct that Marxism is naive in basing itself partly on human nature.  But subsequent economic studies by many non marxist economists seems to draw many interesting findings from marxist arguements (surplus value) which goes deep into our current foundation of economic theories.  Try Morishima's books.
    Communism is just a word.  Anyone can use it.  Marxism, Leninism, Maoism and so on are ideas that seems to be regularly associated with communism IN CHINA.  Not Stalinism, definitely not.  Is Communism == antidemocracy?  From Marxism no, from the current way things run in China, hard to say.  Actually China is very liberal, so long as you do not threaten the gov't.  There are so many things you can do in China, be it bad or good, that you cannot imagine doing in the States.  Is democracy really that good as a means of sharing power?  Democracy is already deeply rooted in US in the form of election, but go to the poor urban dwellers, what did they share?  Democracy is rather a means to keep the rich on top of the poor in US, its the complimentary tool of capitalism, and that is why capitalist economies frequently tout election format democracy as god send.
    Well enough diversion, we are no longer talking games.  Not the best place to talk non games, here.



     

    Is the so long as you dont threaten the government part thats the issue, sure, all forms of government seek some degree of stability, but suporting the status quo at any price is precisely the antithesis of freedom. Comunism may not be evil per se but its basically flawed as it cannot allow for dissent, and can never be, at best, anything other than a form of enlightened despotism. The internet, despite its roots in government, is the best example of an advance made posible only by free individuals living in a liberal society. MMOs would not exist at all had its development been left in the hands of marxist states.

    Yes, Marx made an enormous contribution to mankind, but just as with other revolutionaries (Darwin, Freud) we cannot atempt to understand his ideas without historic context and a knowledge of those who followed in their footsteps. Marxist concepts may live on in economics and many other fields, but comunism as an ideology died with Trotsky. Liberalization and economic progress of chinese society may very well end with post-Maoism and we can only hope this will come about by gradual change and not civil war. China will be faced with too many problems in the home front over the next three decades to supose confrontation with a US on which its economy very much depends will be a feasible scenario. And the rest of mankind (as a Mexican i know my country would not escape unharmed any such conflict) can all be grateful for that. The US and China simply need each other too much.

    Back on the subject of MMOs, China is too big a market to supose its governments decissions will not impact game development around the world. As gamers we should be concerned with what this means in terms of future content for our genre. And a more limited prospect of revenue for western operators/developers is very likely not good news for us.

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Member Posts: 1,190


    Originally posted by Demz2
    Simple, fact is these communist monkeys have become to big for their boots,  you give them abit of  lee way, and then they bite then hands thta feed them.  Time to crush them like the west did with soviet russia.
     
    They telling people they cant play online game lol, bloody communism has gone beyond a joke now. 

    That's some revisionist history you're preaching there.

    I seem to recall the Soviet Union collapsing from it's own economic problems, not a military strike against it. I also happen to recall that anytime a "western" country got into a straight brawl with the Soviets they got their noses bloodied.

    Gives credit where credit is due, the Muslims hated the Soviets too but they never worked up the balls to fly a plane into the Kremlin. That should tell you something.

  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,005
    Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero


     

    Originally posted by Demz2

    Simple, fact is these communist monkeys have become to big for their boots,  you give them abit of  lee way, and then they bite then hands thta feed them.  Time to crush them like the west did with soviet russia.

     

    They telling people they cant play online game lol, bloody communism has gone beyond a joke now. 

     

    That's some revisionist history you're preaching there.

    I seem to recall the Soviet Union collapsing from it's own economic problems, not a military strike against it. I also happen to recall that anytime a "western" country got into a straight brawl with the Soviets they got their noses bloodied.

    Gives credit where credit is due, the Muslims hated the Soviets too but they never worked up the balls to fly a plane into the Kremlin. That should tell you something.

     

    An interesting view... never really thought of it that way, Russia is indeed a more "trigger happy" nation.

    image

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by lisubab


    You are right, it is NOT a big deal.  It is a game.  I have issues playing WoW when I am in China.  But I choose to live in China.  Not a big deal, not at all.
    And yes I took history as one of my subjects 30 years back.  I still remember my stuffs, and NO, communist manifesto is NOT one stupid man's vision of communism.  It is semi correct that Marxism is naive in basing itself partly on human nature.  But subsequent economic studies by many non marxist economists seems to draw many interesting findings from marxist arguements (surplus value) which goes deep into our current foundation of economic theories.  Try Morishima's books.
    Communism is just a word.  Anyone can use it.  Marxism, Leninism, Maoism and so on are ideas that seems to be regularly associated with communism IN CHINA.  Not Stalinism, definitely not.  Is Communism == antidemocracy?  From Marxism no, from the current way things run in China, hard to say.  Actually China is very liberal, so long as you do not threaten the gov't.  There are so many things you can do in China, be it bad or good, that you cannot imagine doing in the States. Is Democracy really that good a means of sharing power?  Democracy is already deeply rooted in US in the form of election, but go to the poor urban dwellers, what did they share?  Democracy is rather a means to keep the rich on top of the poor in US, its the complimentary tool of capitalism, and that is why capitalist economies frequently tout election format democracy as god send.
    Well enough diversion, we are no longer talking games.  Not the best place to talk non games, here.

     

    Actually, yes, so far Democracy has been the best way to share power and nothing better has been discovered so far. Democracy keeps the rich on top of the poor? Explain Bill Clinton, who grew up poor, and Barack Obama who grew up poor, and both of them became the leaders of the most powerful nation on earth. How did the system of keeping the poor down fail if that's what Democracy does so well?

    All language is just words. But they have accepted definitions, and if we do not adhere to those definitions we cannot communicate.

    Look up every definition you want, and post it here. You will see all include a usage of the word Communism that indicates a totalitarian regime, because that is the only way Communism works.

    Indicating that "Communism" only means what Marx wrote is not a proper usage of the word in modern day English.

    Main Entry: com·mu·nism

    Pronunciation: ?käm-y?-?ni-z?m, -yü-

    Function: noun

    Etymology: French communisme, from commun common

    Date: 1840

    1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

    2 capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism

     

    To state something like "that's not communism, because that's not what Marx believed in" is simply ignorance of the definition of the word.

     

    image

  • PonicoPonico Member UncommonPosts: 650

    This is getting into a political debate.

    Seriously, people needs to stop hating the chinese, koreans and any other asians now. This community is slowly turning into a racist bunch and most of you have no idea who the asians are really.

    I’m sorry but I don’t go around calling americans fat pigs all the time and I don’t go posting about the “new” stupidity you guys are doing these days.

    Communism or Demo are both systems that could work on paper but in reality none of them really work. Don't even try to pretend Democracy works lol...

    image

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    I vote for the Philosopher King form of government.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    Techinically hating another country for the way it governs is not racism....now if they were specifically hating the people of the country for non-poitical reason and instead genetic or cultural issues then maybe.

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2


    LOL, this is too funny... NOW, they've crossed the line?
    Guy's China's government has been doing thing alot worse to people then stopping them from playing Warlock's in Strangelthorne Vale for a long time.

     

    LOL I agree,  We need to give China a little taste of their own medicine. I wonder what would happen if we stopped importing everything made in China and just made everything in the USA.  I for one would be a happy camper, there is nothing more sad than looking a little plastic American flag that says Made In China.

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556

    The funny thing is commies never really got along with hippies although they were both basically working towards the same goal.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u9JAt6gFqM

    Representative democracy is failed, yes, although its still way better than absolutism. My bet for the future is in direct democracy, which funny enough the internet might help bring about. Virtual comunities (including MMOs) could very well find some of the solutions our world so desperately needs. So there you go, playing games might not be such a waste of time after all...

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    Originally posted by Caleveira


    The funny thing is commies never really got along with hippies although they were both basically working towards the same goal.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u9JAt6gFqM
    Representative democracy is failed, yes, although its still way better than absolutism. My bet for the future is in direct democracy, which funny enough the internet might help bring about. Virtual comunities (including MMOs) could very well find some of the solutions our world so desperately needs. So there you go, playing games might not be such a waste of time after all...



     

    One day the president may be elected by dkp.

    :)

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by Ponico


    This is getting into a political debate.
    Seriously, people needs to stop hating the chinese, koreans and any other asians now. This community is slowly turning into a racist bunch and most of you have no idea who the asians are really.
    I’m sorry but I don’t go around calling americans fat pigs all the time and I don’t go posting about the “new” stupidity you guys are doing these days.
    Communism or Demo are both systems that could work on paper but in reality none of them really work. Don't even try to pretend Democracy works lol...

     

    I hate Barack Obama's policies.

    Why do you hate black people?

    I hate Communism.

    Why do you hate Chinese people?

    See how that's just fail?

    image

  • sacredfoolsacredfool Member UncommonPosts: 849

    If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....



    *http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/


    Originally posted by nethaniah

    Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556
    Originally posted by sacredfool


    If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....



    *http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/



     

    Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by sacredfool


    If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....



    *http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/



     

    Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?



     

    The gulag was in russia, dumbass.  China actually has some beautiful country. 

  • AntipopealanAntipopealan Member Posts: 62
    Originally posted by billynomates

    Originally posted by Antipopealan


    so will this stop (Chinese) gold sellers?, since 'western' MMO's wont be allowed to operate over there

    If you think it's only the Chinese that are gold sellers you are deluding yourself.

    I think you are deluding yourself!

    You obviously aren't able to understand exactly what i wrote. Please try again (i even quoted it for you to save you looking back!)

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556
    Originally posted by svann

    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by sacredfool


    If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....



    *http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/



     

    Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?



     

    The gulag was in russia, dumbass.  China actually has some beautiful country. 



     

    The term was used in the USSR you piece of... Its now aplied in many other contexts. Its actually common in Europe to refer to Gitmo as a Gulag of sorts... And that beautiful country of yours is plagued by rampant poverty and corruption. Ask Uighurs or Tibetans if they like comunism. Or how bout the chinese government subjecting its own citizens to forced labor? Or convicts becoming organ donors against their will? Or the one child rule having become genocide against baby girls? Youre a really tough guy in the internet arent you? Wanna get into all the suffering the chinese impose on their own people?

    Does it bother you i live in a country where i can speak my mind? China is a dictatorship run by criminals and murderers. Go stay in the chinese countryside if you like it so much...

    Edit; Not just my opinion, this is all hard facts.

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • lisubablisubab Member Posts: 670
    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2


    LOL, this is too funny... NOW, they've crossed the line?
    Guy's China's government has been doing thing alot worse to people then stopping them from playing Warlock's in Strangelthorne Vale for a long time.

     

    LOL I agree,  We need to give China a little taste of their own medicine. I wonder what would happen if we stopped importing everything made in China and just made everything in the USA.  I for one would be a happy camper, there is nothing more sad than looking a little plastic American flag that says Made In China.



     

    Several things will happen

    First, USA will be deprived of every little thing so common in life.  You know how long it takes to rebuild a manufacturing line, you know how long it takes to retrain the labor, to rebuild the infrastructure that supports factories.  What you are asking is an effective worldwide economic sanction on US, imposed by US itself.  Good politics.

    If US goes for an all out economic war, China will pull the plug on US dollars, all freebies and investment China and many countries give to US to keep it floating will dry up.  Good luck using the greenbacks outside the states.  Good luck using it inside the states.  NO kidding.  Remember the days when Mexicans do not want you to pay them in local currency, but will drop on their knees if you wave George Washington in their face?  If the US dollar can buy nothing, while you need the Chinese currency to buy whatever they produce, you will smoke tobacco using greeenback but die for a Chinese dollar (RMB).

    Dream on.  US is no longer the big country, as US dollar slides, steadily, US will sink into the status of post WW2 Britain.  Once great and still proud.

  • lisubablisubab Member Posts: 670
    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by svann

    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by sacredfool


    If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....



    *http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/



     

    Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?



     

    The gulag was in russia, dumbass.  China actually has some beautiful country. 



     

    The term was used in the USSR you piece of... Its now aplied in many other contexts. Its actually common in Europe to refer to Gitmo as a Gulag of sorts... And that beautiful country of yours is plagued by rampant poverty and corruption. Ask Uighurs or Tibetans if they like comunism. Or how bout the chinese government subjecting its own citizens to forced labor? Or convicts becoming organ donors against their will? Or the one child rule having become genocide against baby girls? Youre a really tough guy in the internet arent you? Wanna get into all the suffering the chinese impose on their own people?

    Does it bother you i live in a country where i can speak my mind? China is a dictatorship run by criminals and murderers. Go stay in the chinese countryside if you like it so much...

    Edit; Not just my opinion, this is all hard facts.



     

    Your hard facts are fictions.  I first visited China in 1982, started living in China on and off since 1995.  Never go back to the states since Bush jr.  I know what china is, I have built village schools in 5 provinces in China, taught there and live there myself.  I know life in many parts in China.  I live in the villages whenever I am not working.  I speak 3 Chinese dialects, and understand many more.

    Mass genocide of girls, dream on.  There were families that value male offsprings more.  That is very true in the 80s.  Nowaday, money talks, and girls earn on average x2 of boys.  Will parent kill girls?  No way.  If mass genocide really happen, we should have a very unbalanced sex distribution in China.  We should not be able to see girls around the towns.  Look again at the outflux of kids from countryside to the industry urban.  Stop dreaming, your facts are fictions.  Population statistics are the facts, and those statistics cannot be manipulated these day, as hospitals, factories, social security purchases, ... are all open daily administrative records no gov't can manipulate.

    Forced labor? Do you know the cost of forcing labor to work against their will, the very low efficiency means its not worth the trouble.  The labor camps were long gone.  Come to think of it, Bush rounded up more innocent people in 8 years worldwide than China in a decade.

    You want to talk about Tibet?  Ok how much do you know about the history of Tibet?  Of the people?  Have you been there?  Talk to any of them?  Is Tibet a unified country like you think, that every Tibetan thinks alike?  Read some biased reports from CNN, a few interviews with someone dressed up like an alien, who surprisingly can be interviewed by an english speaking reporter, and suddenly you know Tibet?  By the way, where is Tibet?  When is tibet a country?  Is it ever a country in the modern sense?  For how long?  How many races are there, what language they speak.  What religion, culture and ethicaly inclination do they possess?  Do they speak and read English?

    Armchair professors, got off your armchair and stop calling people "piece of ...".  You know nothing you pretend to be talking about.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by svann

    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by sacredfool


    If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....



    *http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/



     

    Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?



     

    The gulag was in russia, dumbass.  China actually has some beautiful country. 



     

    The term was used in the USSR you piece of... Its now aplied in many other contexts. Its actually common in Europe to refer to Gitmo as a Gulag of sorts... And that beautiful country of yours is plagued by rampant poverty and corruption. Ask Uighurs or Tibetans if they like comunism. Or how bout the chinese government subjecting its own citizens to forced labor? Or convicts becoming organ donors against their will? Or the one child rule having become genocide against baby girls? Youre a really tough guy in the internet arent you? Wanna get into all the suffering the chinese impose on their own people?

    Does it bother you i live in a country where i can speak my mind?



     

    Not at all.  Does it bother you when people mention that not everything is evil in China?  They have some of the most beautiful country in the world, and some of the bravest freedom fighters.  I bet you never have and would never stare down a tank.  Well neither would I probably, and maybe not even most chinese, but I think there are a very  many serious young people working to change things there and I think we should be proud of their efforts.  Trying to make out like everything is rotten in china is not helping anyone.

    And to be clear, I am American.  And as a true American I value honor and honesty above politics.

Sign In or Register to comment.