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Looking for something different in a world where WoW made games the same (LONG)
I've been around the block. I remember upgrading my computer to a Pentium 166 MHz and buying a new hard drive so that I could play Ultima Online (which was HUNDREDS of megabytes, or "HUGE" in 1997 lingo). I remember the feeling of desperation the first time I logged in ... no idea what to do. I would just run around clicking on things and see what happened. There was no structure. There was no path handed to me. It was just me and a huge world that I knew nothing about.
Over time, I learned the ways of the game. After beating enough wildlife to death with my newbie sword, I managed to buy a better sword and learn how to use it. After some experimentation, I learned to mine ore and make things out of it. After enough spamming outside the bank, I figured out what sold. Eventually, I learned how to make serious coin, got good at combat, killed PKs, etc.
Then, years later, I tried both EQ and FFXI. Again, enter a HUGE world with no idea where to go ... Run around trying my best and eventually learning. I did not get into EQ for long, but FFXI managed to hook me for a year.
And then, in October of 2004, something happened. I managed to get my way into WoW's "Stress test 2" which was followed by open beta. It took no time at all - I was hooked. Transportation was easier. You could level up solo!! (in FFXI, you could NOT level up solo). The game was leading me around, and I was thrilled. It felt more like a "game" than any MMO I had played before, and I couldn't get enough of it. I remember fondly - my first WoW character's name was Jordster, who became a L20 Night Elf Hunter, along with his pet Fangster. Even just being able to name my pet made the game cool, to me, at the time. Jordster and Fangster were lost forever when the servers wiped themselves clean, and then the game launched.
Since then, I have been a WoW subscriber, up until a week ago. I was there for every patch. I played 7 out of 9 classes to level cap (although some capped at 60, some at 70, and only 2 at 80). I raided MC and Onyxia, when that was the cool thing to do, played BGs the week they were added to the game, enjoyed PvP between Southshore and Terran Mill, etc.
In the past couple of years, though, it's lost it's magic. It took me a long time to put my finger on it. It's naive to call WoW "easy." There are raid encounters that are among the hardest in the genre (if not THE hardest). High level arena PvP is ridiculously hard and takes a ton of skill, coordination and game knowledge. I think that it's more the fact that MOST of WoW is stupidly easy. Death means nothing. Until you're level (insert current highest level here) nothing you do matters (aside from maybe leveling a craft). Whether you grind to 80 as fast as you can, or stop to smell the roses, you basically follow the same path. Your hand is held from the minute you materialize until the last ounce of XP makes you hit 80.
I also managed to level a new Druid to 80 and only die 3x (aside from being ganked, as I play on PvP servers). Those 3x were due to carelessness. If I paid attention, I could easily level from 1-80 and never die.
There is nothing satisfying about WoW. There are no points that I'm ever "scared." I think back to fighting Lich Lords in the bowels of Covetus in UO (I think that's where they were) and every fight was one that could spell death, and the loss of everything I was carrying. I remember FFXI, venturing into zones to try to solo mobs that I had no business solo'ing in the hopes of some gil, risking some serious XP if I wasn't careful. I even think back to Runescape, and the excitement of going into the Wilderness looking for a fight...
I've played all of the massive failures that have come along since. Boxes I've wasted my $50 on include Vanguard, Age of Fail, Craphammer. I've also spent some valuable hours trying to get into Runescape (impossible, since I'm not 15), Runes of Magic (such a greedy game with their item store), and EVE. I just can't find anything that satiates me.
I thought about trying Aion, but shied away from it, because it looks really linear, and appears to lack any depth.
I've heard bad things about Darkfall, which I would love to try if a trial were available.
I'm bored stiff (unemployed right now) and don't know what to do. FFXIV looks promising, but it's a year off at best. SW:TOR looks like it might be fun, but it might as well call itself "Star Wars: with inspiration from WoW" because unlike Galaxies (which I never played) it's just another quest driven WoW inspired pile of time sinks.
I really don't know what to do. Every day I dream, for at least a minute, of going back to FFXI. Then I remember how tedious it is. I even tried to go back to UO, but that game wears it's age like a stinky cologne.
Maybe I'm just remembering these experiences fondly because they were among my first. Maybe this hunger will never be satiated.
My name is Jord, and I am Looking for a Game.
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Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
Comments
Totally understand where youre coming from, been through the same thing the past couple years, trying game after game, nothing really able to hold my interest for more than a month or 2 tops, usually more like a week or 2 before i get bored or find something severely wrong with the game and move on to something else. I think i may have finally found a home though, at least until something brand new comes along that does an even better job. Im addicted to Everquest 2 now. Its not quite the same as EQ1, it is slightly more "WoW-ish" as far as the overall playstyle and questing. but it still holds a lot of the same allure as the original. Ive been having a blast since i started on it approx 2 weeks ago. Im still going through a phase of testing out different races&classes to really find what i want to stick with as a main in the long term, theres just so many options and little differences between some of the subclasses within archetypes that its hard to stick with just one (i will likely end up with 2 or 3 mains for different things). Ive got 3 toons up to the 15-20 level range so far, and with each of them i keep finding myself thinking "omg theres so many quests to do, places to go, paths to take, i dunno where to begin taking them all on". I even gave a friend of mine (who had recommended trying it but didnt really push it) a bunch of crap for not insisting i try it much sooner.
I definitely recommend you give it a shot, they are offering 14 day free trials, so wont cost you anything but a few minutes of DL/install time, and i think youd be pleasantly surprised. I know the game wasnt as big of a hit as EQ1 due to some issues with it at launch, but it seems a lot of the things that kept people from playing it in the past have been fixed and they are continuing to improve it, and overall im finding it to be one of my best gaming experiences in probably at least 2 years. If nothing else its at least worth getting as 2nd game to play while mixing it with another game in order to have a bit of variety and keep you relieved of boredom by switching back and forth every few days.
I have to say you wrote this topic very well, and I have to agree you nailed why WoW has lost it's appeal. At least it has for me. I had started during the stress test as well, bought all the collector's editions and seemed pretty vested in the game with my time. After a while it started to lose its luster, I would take a break, try some other games, and find myself going back to WoW thinking there is nothing better out there, so I should just stick with it. It would be nice for a short time to talk and hang with people in game that I hadn't talked to in a while, but it would eventally become dull and tedious. I haven't played since April (lol sounds like a 12 step program, rereading this part!) and have tried soo many games I have to think to myself whether or not I may have tried it sometimes as it all becomes one giant blur.
I might get a lot of crap for this, but I have to say one game that really kept my interest for a while, when it was around, was Shadowbane. Other then that and WoW, I just can't seem to find a game that sticks, and I don't really ever care to go back to WoW. I'm not saying its a bad game, or that I hate it, just that I don't care for it anymore, or perhaps I have evolved past it.
I would like to check out SW:ToR, ST online, DC Universe Online, but it's really hard to say whether or not those games will be something appealing long term as well. I know there are several other games that might be worth looking at also, but they are in the distant future.
I am also looking for a new game, lol. (there we go with that 12 step program again!)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Dear brother Jord,
When you find it, please send me a PM.
ums
How dare you present him with logic! Don't you understand? He fights epic fights, in epic games, with epic toons....eats epic food and takes epic dumps! He has more e..pic..icity...ness in his little finger than you have in your whole unepic body! - ChicagoCub
I started WoW a few months after launch. Had zero experience with MMO's prior to that. I got my priest to 60 and a "major" guild on Medivh drug me into BWL to spam dispells on the chrommagus fight, and I was hooked ever since. Raided everything up to Ulduar. Cancelled my sub earlier this summer, simply couldn't stand the direction they took raiding for wotlk. And their abandonment of everything lvl 1-79 was the nail in the coffin for me. So thats my (very abreviated) sob WoW story. Perhaps Cataclysm will fix a lot of the issues that came up for me with WoW.
I'm shopping for a new game too. Its a tossup between eq2 and Vanguard, one of them will get my money in the next couple weeks, just can't decide....
stuff and things
i tried both EQ2 and Vanguard within a few days. I kept seeing everyone raving about how good Vanguard is now that theyve fixed soem awful performance issues and stuff... but i just didnt get it. I must be missing something since I, admittedly, played it for probably no more than an hour, but for some reason the game just made me want to kick my monitor in and i immediately switched back to EQ2. Peopel talk about how beautiful the world is, how much there is to do, etc, but to me it just seemed a very ugly and clunky game right from the start. for some reason i just didnt like the combat & questing either, something about it just made me feel bored out of my mind and made me want to stop playing within the first hour (which is very bad IMO, probably only lik ethe 5th MMO ive tried that made me pretty much insta-quit).
Any of you guys whove tried Vanguard feel the same at first but stuck with it a bit and found it to be a great game after putting a bit of time into it? if so, can you compare to EQ2 and why its better/worse than that game.
If you are willing to play a game outside the fantasy gerne then i would say give Fallen Earth a try. I honestly would not have tryed the game if I did not know someone who had worked on it, they told me to check it out and I did. I am having the time of my life. First off you have to work for what you get in this world, every accomplishment feels like it is one, every piece of armor you feel you had to work for and are glad to have it. If you are a melee type character you are happy to have that bent pipe to go wack stuff with, and if you use ranged then finding that next box of ammo is always a challenge. The game is great and immersive, there are LOTS of quests to keep you bussy with lots of lore to go with it. The crafting system is HUGE and works in real time. You que stuff up to be made and then can go fight and quest if you want. If you craft at a workstation your time to make the items goes down. Crafting can take anywhere from 45 seconds for easy stuff to 8 hours if you are putting together that motorcycle. There are no classes per say and around lv 15 when you head out into the s2 areas you will be able to choose a faction you want to join. As you level up you decide where you put your points and how your character will develop. I am having a lot of fun with this game and hope to see you in it.
i tried both EQ2 and Vanguard within a few days. I kept seeing everyone raving about how good Vanguard is now that theyve fixed soem awful performance issues and stuff... but i just didnt get it. I must be missing something since I, admittedly, played it for probably no more than an hour, but for some reason the game just made me want to kick my monitor in and i immediately switched back to EQ2. Peopel talk about how beautiful the world is, how much there is to do, etc, but to me it just seemed a very ugly and clunky game right from the start. for some reason i just didnt like the combat & questing either, something about it just made me feel bored out of my mind and made me want to stop playing within the first hour (which is very bad IMO, probably only lik ethe 5th MMO ive tried that made me pretty much insta-quit).
Any of you guys whove tried Vanguard feel the same at first but stuck with it a bit and found it to be a great game after putting a bit of time into it? if so, can you compare to EQ2 and why its better/worse than that game.
I came from EQ2...it was my first MMO, and I loved it. Then I built my PC which was able to play VG, I installed it, and at first I was overwhelmed and a bit turned off. I started in the Dahknarg racial zone since I rolled a Vulmane DK (this was before Isle of Dawn). EQ2 was a pretty polished game then, and going into VG, I was turned off to the UI, the map, everything. It seemed too overwhelming and I didn't know where to go or what to do. Pop was even lower than it is today.
But I stuck with it; I wanted to give it a fair shake and learned to pay attention to what I was doing, and where I was going. I learned how to actually use the map as a guide, not a crutch. I figured out the quest log, the waypoints, and realized actually reading the quest text helped immensely. The world was huge, and Dahknarg was almost a maze...I just wasn't used to the sprawling, almost organic feel, of Dahknarg. It was built more as though it were an actual village set in the wilderness rather than a series of boxes...and I was used to boxes designed to lead you more easily from point to point.
I started noticing little things about VG. Things like how rich the combat was, how the grass moved in the fields with the trees, how, as I ran through a forest, an unknown bird call rang out. The music. I got my intro in harvesting, and again it was a learning curve. I took up blacksmithing at first, but then switched to carpentry when I learned about shipbuilding. I wanted to build my own ships. I switched harvesting skills and took up lumberjacking. When I went out to cut down a tree, the tree shook, then toppled.
I tried out diplomacy. That was a hair-pullingly frustrating experience at first. Then I learned to slow down and pay attention to what I was doing (I was still in that rush-rush-rush-ezmode mindset, expecting a game to hold my hand and walk through every door). I learned how to build a hand prior to a parley, and after my first, I was intrigued. I tried a second one, and moreso. By the time I was finished with the tutorial, I was hooked. I enjoyed reading the lore it revealed (not to mention the rewards!) and began to strategize for particular parley types.
VG is rough around the edges, and creaky in many ways. But I began noticing the depth, the non-linear paths, the open and seamless world, how everything wasn't contained in boxes but actually felt like a world...I noticed all the little things that amounted to a far more immersive experience. I love VG now. It's unlike anything I've played or seen, and I have looked.
Performance is insanely better and the world is gob-smackingly beautiful. I don't know what settings you were playing on, or what your system is like. I will admit right now...the Highest Performance setting is abhorrent. The game's downright ugly in the lowest quality setting, no two ways abount that. But even turning it up to the second lowest setting, "High Performance" I believe, it becomes immensely better. I play with everything maxed out, btw, which leaves the world looking stunning.
EQ2 is polished, almost perfectly, I will grant it that. But it's stale and contrived in comparison, imo. It's bold and bright in presentation, and it tries to please many people. But the depth...I played VG and realized what depth could be, and EQ2 didn't have "it". I can't go back to the zones, the instances. I can't go back to their combat and crafting. VG is it for me, and until another game gets "it", it'll be VG alone that I play.
I thought about giving VG another go. It does sound more adventurous, even if it is going to take me a while to re-learn how to play a game without my hand tightly held.
I actually tried to download the trial last night. I got the initial 2mb download installed, entered my station name and password, and then when I clicked VG I was greeted with an empty window. Tried three times - same result. Not a great marketing tool - a free trial that doesn't work ...
Oh ya that was my other question - can I use the free trial? I already have an account (which I canceled after the "free" month way back in Jan. 07)
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Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
I've been kind of on the fence with trying out Darkfall but I don't want to shell out 50$ only to have quit in a week.. =( It just looks like it could be a fun game considering you're always a target and could lose all your gear in a second.
I often hear people looking for a different game. What I think they mean is a different and GOOD game.
There are lots of different games like Atlantica Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Ryzom and EVE.
So why do all those looking for a different game not go to a existing different game ?. I think it can only be because they are blind or they dont think those different games are good.
I think those people should be more precise in what they really are looking for.
I found EVE to be very cool, but it very quickly became a boring time-sink. There was also a feeling of loneliness when the only real indicator that there are other players around (or anything at all for that matter) was your local radar scan.
DDO is not my style of game.
Ryzom is supposedly underpopulated and suffers a plethora of issues.
Atlantica? Sounds like some obscure F2P item shop Korean grind.
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Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
Check out Darkfall or EvE and if you can wait, Mortal Online.
And there is another post exactly how I feel and have felt for months now. Sad times are these, I'm beginning to think nothing will feel fun again because much like the movie industry lately, no creativity or thinking outside of the box. Has anyone else noticed that they are remaking movies left and right with no real innovations..... I think the gaming industry is in the same place... everything has been done they think so lets just make more and more of whats working ok now instead of making something new thats outside the box that possibly could fail.... why take a chance when you can copy other games
Try Darkfall.
I Started my mmorpg career with Everquest and absolutely loved it. Very similar experience to what you described. I eventually got into AC beta and played for 5 minutes. I wasn't impressed with the graphics or the way movement worked and logged off. I was about to write it off but saw the warning for beta red (pk) saying how it was a harsh world and a different experience from the other servers. Jumped in game and was killed within 15 seconds of logging in. I used the 5 minute grace period after death to become familiar with the controls as best i could and learn how to cast, and then promptly killed the player who murdered me 5 minutes prior. Fell in love with it then and there. Was off and on for 3 years in AC, and then tried a plethora of games including UO, SB, WoW, Age of Conan, Warhammer ect, but nothing really held my attention.
I got Darkfall on the first day of release and have been playing ever since. It is not a game for everyone, but if you played early UO, Shadowbane, or Asherons call, then it may be perfect for you. There are no restrictions on what you do, which makes it a pretty harsh experience just like the original mmorpgs. If someone is not in your alliance, they will try to kill you (its almost guranteed) and when you die you lose everything you are carrying. There isn't anyone holding your hand telling you where to go, how to gain skills, or what is the best way to make money at your particular "level". As you play you will figure things out and hopefully make a few friends here and there to give you advice.
Other people is what makes this game great. If you just go and kill some goblins or spend all your time crafting ect, you will probably get bored quickly. But if you either join an alliance, or play with a regular group of friends you will get immersed in the politics (both on a global and local scale) within the game very quickly. The players that you encounter on a daily basis who kill you as your learning the game and skilling up will become your enemies, and other players who you trade and hunt with will become your friends. Unlike games where you choose a faction or side (horde vs alliance as an example) your enemies are people that you actually have a reason to dislike for one reason or another, and your friends and clanmembers are going to be the deciding factor in whether you survive an encounter with others or not on a daily basis.
As a heads up though, the starter cities are generally fairly empty. If you travel out into the world you won't see tons of people either. But this does not mean the world is empty, since there are no laws generally players will not just be in the open. The majority of people base themselves out of their alliances capital city, and when players are out in the world it is with a purpose (not just wandering around the globe, which is massive). To be perfectly honest, if the newbie areas were as populated as in the beginning of the game, it would be far more difficult for a new player to truly get into the game, as there is constant pvp in populated areas.
Darkfall has its flaws, but as someone who has played consistently since its release I can say that the developers are steering the game in the right direction. Every patch has been a giant leap forward, and with the next major patch coming in November i can only assume the game will continue to grow. There isn't a free trial currently, but there are some guesses that the boxed version of the game will be released shortly after the next major patch. Personally I feel this is the only game currently on the market that caters to the traditional mmorpg player, and I recommend it to anyone who is looked for that oldschool Ultima/Asherons call feel.
everquest 2 -pve
dark age of camoulot-pvp(rvr if your prefer)
you wont be disapointed
pimpin...not really
To the OP, you should definetly try Darkfall.
Do not listen to the 80% of people who doesn't like it.
They are right not to like it, Darkfall is not made for the massess, so it is only natural they criticise the game.
But if you are one of those people who like complete freedom, unlimited PvP, a good comunity and like their games a bit "rough", Darkfall might be for you.
If you can look past its crude beta state, you may want to have a look at Dawntide (www.dawntide.net). It's the first game in 10 years to give me the UO feeling while playing it. It has similar skills, similar housing system, similar combat pacing, and similar graphics style even if it's 3D and uses a modern engine. Of course it also comes with all the bugs and unfinished features that can be expected in early beta, but there's no NDA, so you can ask questions, and view impressions/progress on the forums, and it's quite easy to get into the beta since existing beta testers get friend invites they can use to invite others.
Edit: Duh, just realized you had posted this on the Dawntide forums as well. I guess you are aware of it.
@Abalis
Ty for the post, guess maybe i just have to give it a chance to grow on me like you did. The things youre saying do sound great, i just didnt give it enough of a chance to get to that point. I still have 4 or 5 days left of the free trial, so maybe ill give it a shot again since my server is down for 12-24 hours on EQ2 for server merge today anyway.
@Jord gotta agree with you about EVE, amazing game, lots of cool stuff, but i constantly found myself getting bored with all the time inbetween doing things and traveling, would usually have a 2nd game up on my 2nd monitor and kill some time with that while waiting for something to happen in EVE. eventually just kind of lost interest in it. would be nice for a game really similar to EVE but slightly more fast paced and maybe slightly lower learning curve. its cool that theres so much detail and things to learn about it, but at the same time you just kinda want to have fun while doing it rathe rthan feel like your studying for a new job or something.
Oh man I was just reminiscing of the old days when MMO's all had something unique about them. I dont miss the harsh death penalties and slow progression but I do miss the sense of danger and excitement. Feeling like your part of a world instead of just part of a guild of people that you complete content with. You don't even have to learn new rules in MMo's these days! they are all made by the same rulebook, and that's half the fun for me! seeing what I can do and what I can't and trying to think up my own build of gear, skill and playstyle. Nope can't do that anymore there would be too much of a learning curve and shun people away. Its just quest, grind, dungeons, and cookie cutter skill trees creating the illusion of choice. Everything is the same except the character models
If i were to pick a game that is the most unique now I would say try darkfall. Havent tried it myself cause my comp cant handle it on anything but low settings and thats just... painful. I'm waiting to upgrade and looking forward to FF XIV myself.
Yeah, VG definitely had/has a learning curve tied to it. The Isle of Dawn is a kinder, gentler introduction to the game, but it still doesn't hold your hand as much as other games might.
I don't know how to help you with the trial issues...it might be different for you than for me, because I just subbed to the game and then downloaded it again, signing into my old account. Do you get to the Vanguard LaunchPad? Where the EULA is posted? From there you select "I Accept" and then you enter in your Station Username and password. It'll check the files and patch then you should be able to select "Play." Is it the latter step that doesn't show up for you?
As for being able to use the free trial, I wish I could tell you. I just jumped straight to subbing.
I don't know if you can create a new account to try the trial...or if you can use your old one. I guess all you can do is try, or maybe they have this problem already posted under the FAQ's.
I would suggest going here to their Support page, to see if there's a solution or to fill out a report, if you keep having issues trying to get the launcher to work. My bf had dl'ed the trial and I don't recall him having issues, so I'm afraid I can't help you much.
You're welcome; it's definitely a game that grows on you or it doesn't. I'll admit VG won't be for everyone, and it definitely helps to be forgiving of its creakiness, but for those looking for the features it offers and who are willing to overlook the rough-edges and creakiness, VG is a very unique gem.
Don't be afraid to play around with your video settings to find a more agreeable performance rating if you want/need to, as well. I play with everything maxed out as much as possible, with all the lighting and everything turned on; I play roughly anywhere from 30-40+ fps. Sometimes more, sometimes less, and it all depends on where I'm located and who/what's on the screen with me. I get much higher fps on lower rendering settings, but I much prefer the world's looks on Highest Quality with everything maxed out.
If I were you, I wouldn't go anywhere below "High Performance." The world still looks nice and you can still mess with the sliders, etc., to make it look better, within that level of rendering.
Anyway, gl with wherever you go or whatever you do.
I had the same issues with Station Launcher as the OP when trying to get the VG trial to work. Blank screen when clicking the Vanguard menu item instead of the EULA. I checked the source for the webpage it was trying to access, and it turned out that viewing it didn't work with the language code supplied by station launcher. Switching to another language (I believe I switched from UK English to US English or the other way around) got it working again.
You're really tried evertything. If I were you I would try The Chronicles of Spellborn. Sure it is easy and everything, but still it looks like you're desperate so just try everything that is free and you can't lose anything
There are 3 f2p MMOs: The Chronicles of Spellborn, Dungeons and Dragons online and Atlantica Online. None of them is too hard tho.
Wait a second.. before those try Wurm Online, thats sandbox game with 3d graphics. Very bad graphics tho, but if you don't care about them I think you may play it for a while. It's free to play until all levels are 10 or 20, not sure. Also you can build own house everywhere etc.. I think it's very hard compared to wow and others like it.
Or you may also try Ryzom, I have never played it myself but I hear it's good and has awesome economy and is player driven. And often games like that aren't easy. But like I said, I have never played it just trying to help you.