I have to agree with OP; the game does feel like it is leveling off. But, 5 years is a good run for a game to remain in its prime.
No doubt, WOW will continue and get revitalized with Cataclysm, but I do think the overall downward trend is on its way. This is good; this means Blizzard will have to roll out its new secret MMO sometime.
WoW is now passed its prime guys. WoW is slowly dieing... There is no game out there that is killing it, its just dieing. Matter of time before they start closing down servers. They are adding every bit of gimick they can before people start leaving. The server populations is terrible. I logged in on of my characters to find 1 person in ironforge 5 people in dalaran and 23 level 80s on. This is what they pass off as a "MEDIUM" population server. This is common on all servers as the population balance is terrible. Their payed realm and faction transfer is killing their game. You can now also create races from the opposite faction as a feable attempt to compensate for the population balance. This is only 1 problem of many that is killing WoW. These huge number of subscriptions you see are total crap. Half of them were owned by the chinese and since they banned gold farming, youll see a huge drop in subs. RAF accounts are also the culprit for this massive subscription count. People are creating multiple accounts and powerlevleing, skipping all the content, leaving the lower level instances to be ghostlands. There is no coincidence to why after many years of being against faction, and realm transfers, even when saying it was impossible to program this, that they impliment these changes. The talent system is unfixable with the disaster of WoTLK. It isimpossible to balance this many talent trees on all classes. This is what they are spending all of their time on. You may not see drastic changes to the game like NGE with SWG, but slow changes over time as you know, changing every aspect of the game much like NGE. I still have my subscription to WoW, but will most likely be cancelling it as this EQ style mmorpg is so tiring.
I have heard simmilar since a few months after wow release in 2005. There is actually also a list somewhere with all things that was going to kill wow.. and that was hundreds of things from Undead being horde, to gnomes, to Guildwars and so on.
Fact is that wow has so many players. I mean, a game that have 250k is making money. And considered good. Wow has millions. It could losse half its players and still be an enormous success.
Cataclysm is almost wow 2 and will bring a bunch of players back. Blizzard is already fighting queues and have to upgrade servers to deal with population..
So I don't think we will see Wow die any time soon.
Wow might die as a game for some of players. But its too easy for a person to conclude that wow is dying just because that person feel the game has lost its magic. Wow still get new players. Wow have returning players, players that leaves.
A game like wow that also was the first MMORPG for many will always hold a special place in lots of peoples heart so there will alwyas be enough players around to make it a good business for Blizzard. Even if they loose 90% of todays playerbase Im sure they would still make money from that game.
I have just leveled a hunter from 1 to 80 and while naturally not so many lower levels as the first weeks and months of wow, there are more in wow than most games. People make alts and so on. And Cataclysm is going to reset that counter once again, like BC did when there is new races. That means new years with a lot of players. Even more this time as all instances and basically everything is changed.
I dont think even Blizzard will Top wow. So many things got right for that game. And it has so many untyphical MMO gamers that will not play anything else. The time it was released. The content (elfs, dwarfs and humans are appealing to a lot more people broadly than most other theemes), the colorfull graphics.. so many things that was right. Not to mention that the amount of games at the marked at that time was much lower than now.
WoW died for me with WotLK as well as for many others. I basically stopped logging in, except for a day before my sub expired. My guild had a fraction of the people on, most of the players left. I also tried it for a month in early summer after quitting Warhammer and just ended up being bored & unimpressed. The guild was no longer there. The server was still low/med, no real difference in population. The community was definitely very kiddy but I laugh at that.
I ended up selling the account before the 1 month sub expired. Probably logged in about 5 times.
I did notice one thing. Most of the players, by a wide margin, were new who simply purchased accounts or had it powerleveled. They were clueless about WoW prior to WotLK. It was obvious few of them even leveled through the game, most started at 60-70.
What this really says to me is that the current playerbase of WoW are the late adopters in the cycle. Considering how dumbed down the game has become, it's pretty obvious that it's a simple minded demographic that is driven by marketing. The turnover in the game seems very high, but hey, that is what happens with the ADD crowd.
This game has peaked and is on the down curve. I really do not understand why any original WoW player would still keep playing this anymore.
The Cataclysm is way too late. That was needed after BC. The game has down too far in the borderline retarded direction in regards to challenge & depth. I do not see many players coming back, maybe the WotLK ones, but noone from original WoW. I have some interest, but at the same time, I just do not see Blizzard goingi n the opposite direction they did with WotLK. They might as well make WoW 2 to appeal to the original WoW crowd.
P.S. There are better MMOs better, by a wide margin. There are also plenty of themeparks. WoW is nothing special anymore and has not been for a long time.
There is so much fail in this thread. I logged on to WoW to run my team's matches on Sunday. Guess what there was a queue. Now, the queue may not have been 500+ like at the start of Wrath, but then again we had no queue during BC / Vanilla. Wow is doing fine and will not miss a few more skill less players. Grinding your way to pvp items was pretty boring.
OP has a point. WoW died for me with WotLK as well as for many others. I basically stopped logging in, except for a day before my sub expired. My guild had a fraction of the people on, most of the players left. I also tried it for a month in early summer after quitting Warhammer and just ended up being bored & unimpressed. The guild was no longer there. The server was still low/med, no real difference in population. The community was definitely very kiddy but I laugh at that. I ended up selling the account before the 1 month sub expired. Probably logged in about 5 times. I did notice one thing. Most of the players, by a wide margin, were new who simply purchased accounts or had it powerleveled. They were clueless about WoW prior to WotLK. It was obvious few of them even leveled through the game, most started at 60-70. What this really says to me is that the current playerbase of WoW are the late adopters in the cycle. Considering how dumbed down the game has become, it's pretty obvious that it's a simple minded demographic that is driven by marketing. The turnover in the game seems very high, but hey, that is what happens with the ADD crowd. This game has peaked and is on the down curve. I really do not understand why any original WoW player would still keep playing this anymore. The Cataclysm is way too late. That was needed after BC. The game has down too far in the borderline retarded direction in regards to challenge & depth. I do not see many players coming back, maybe the WotLK ones, but noone from original WoW. I have some interest, but at the same time, I just do not see Blizzard goingi n the opposite direction they did with WotLK. They might as well make WoW 2 to appeal to the original WoW crowd. P.S. There are better MMOs better, by a wide margin. There are also plenty of themeparks. WoW is nothing special anymore and has not been for a long time.
Nah, you're wrong, it's way better now than it ever was.
There is more options to progress than ever before, regardless of your playstyle. Less grind and much improved UI.
PVP is available for stress release or leveling or competitive needs.
Classes are more balanced than ever with more unique skills for every class.
Newer quests are leagues above the original quests and design of Outland and Northrend is more detailed, more interesting and more varied than in original Azeroth.
Crafting is usefull and every profession has some bonuses for the crafter and stuff worth making for gold.
World events are fun and bring the old world alive every time in a different way.
Raid bosses are more varied and have very detailed scripted fights that put to shame old vanilla bosses.
it is indeed dying, and it is simply because they have failed to do anything new or innovative and people have moved on. It happens in video games, and it is something that developers try and design around, but it doesn't always work. There is always a hayday for a game, and WoW has had it. It will remain widely popular due to name recognition such as EQ still does, but it is indeed going to decrease. Not a surprise, but just the nature of the market. This post is like stating that pizza is delicious you can't prove it, but there are a lot of people who would agree and a lot who will disagree.
Believe it or not but with Cataclysm the 12/13 M barrier will easely be breached. In fact I am afraid for my server queuing with this expansion; because Azeroth "reborn" is nothing short of WOW2 without the # negative. A new Azeroth 1 - 60, a new leveling system (Path of the Titans), a new clustered dungeon mechanism (LFG tool for 80K concurrent users), a new possibilty of leveling through PvP, a new Guild leveling system, a new open world PvP zone, new PvP titles and new competition in the BG's now, new phasing immersion). CATACYSLM is WOW restart with present day technologies. If you don't play it, you have NO clue what present day new technology can do in an mmorpg. So better be prepared.
Zorn, I am not a WoW hater, I raid 3 nights a week. Our family share 4 accounts.
That said, I no longer believe in the 11m count. I surely feel that less people are loggin on now. Its getting hard to get raids after the Wednesday rush. Apart from the scheduled raids, PUGs or freely organised additional raids are less well received.
We do not know what catacyslm will look like. I trust WoW they won't deliver anything that is not thorughly polished. On the other hand, trying to over hype it this early is not really meaningful.
One thing we know, WoW can survive challenge. WoW need not come up with the more innovative idea, WoW has the money to implement and distill the good ideas of any competitor. WoW's Achievement is far more varied than EQ's boring AA grind. WoW's WG makes WAR look so primitive. WoW adopt a lot of the new idea of new mods and constantly upgrade their interface. The real strength of WoW is its big and solid foundation. It has too many options to copy and improve upon good features designed by competitors. Instead of the pure kill mobs grind of LOTRo for "achievement", we have fishing achievement, eat this and that combo achievement, kill a buch of unique mobs achievement, jump from sky high and not die achievement. No games on earth has so much variety in the core game to allow such freedom in game feature implementation. Everything Blizz sees as good, there are numerous ways for them to speedily implement into WoW, and with good chances of not bugging, as the core is solid, and bug free at large.
I never see Blizz as excessively original and innovative, but they maintained a game that delivers the greatest variety and kept up toe to toe with the good features of almost all other games out there. That means in 1 sub, I got the largest selection of game options. I only need to sub a few other truly unique games for features not compatible with WoW, games like CoH/CoV.
Believe it or not but with Cataclysm the 12/13 M barrier will easely be breached. In fact I am afraid for my server queuing with this expansion; because Azeroth "reborn" is nothing short of WOW2 without the # negative. A new Azeroth 1 - 60, a new leveling system (Path of the Titans), a new clustered dungeon mechanism (LFG tool for 80K concurrent users), a new possibilty of leveling through PvP, a new Guild leveling system, a new open world PvP zone, new PvP titles and new competition in the BG's now, new phasing immersion). CATACYSLM is WOW restart with present day technologies. If you don't play it, you have NO clue what present day new technology can do in an mmorpg. So better be prepared.
We do not know what catacyslm will look like. I trust WoW they won't deliver anything that is not thorughly polished. On the other hand, trying to over hype it this early is not really meaningful.
Your "feel" is not looking representative if you look at some trace able facts:
Some million tracked computers in the west shows growth for WOW up and to August 2009.... And this is not some "line" coming from a website. Although the conclusions are, the important fact is the trend of the graph, traced by a few million computers... in the WEST.
----But ----
Last confirmed 11.5 M in a CEO financial press meeting was in Apr 2009 (by M Morhaime) and last up was the press conference with Guinness book of records on June 5th. Also the financial 2nd quarter 2009 reports of Blizzard showed a 12% increase over the same quarter last year. That simply means ... growth.... despite the Chinese "hic-up".
Now, IF you lie about those numbers you risk to being sued by the Ministry of Justice, because you represent a stock quoted company FYI.
Since then the China syndrome sat in, so we wait where that will lead to in the upcoming months. As WOW was free to play in China for almost 2 months, it wouldn't be fair to speak of subs isn't it?
As to "hyping", I just pointed out the "new" features of WOW in future projects of WOW, Like they were introduced at BlizzCon. Hyping is when you jump like a chimpansee before a camera and yell "awesome".
I just pointed out some (not even all) "new" upcoming features in reborn Azeroth.
And yes, Blizzard is going to need all manpower to handle those servers at launch (again).
Yes Zandorf, I help write those corporate papers for a living. I know how to twist figures to show flying colors for a dead fish.
Statistics, damn statistics, lies.
We all see what Blizz is talking about in the new expansion. Talking on paper =/= gameplay. I am looking at Diablo 3, at the demo and I keep asking, do I know how it feels playing out. For a month, a year? I don't.
I never doubt Blizz. I will reserve my judgment till after paying for a few months playing it out.
No one doubt that WoW is selling boxes. At this global scale, its very hard to manipulate excessively. No one doubts that WoW has the largest number of filled servers and is played around the clock, around the globe. Somehow I feel that people are slightly burnt out or bored, and gradually loggin on less, or less active even online. This is my own feeling in my logged on hours.
Let's not forget that we are approaching the end of the line for the WOTKL expansion............
What I mean is that it has been already 12 months since the expansion came out, majority of players probably achieved everything achievable in this expansion and might have run out of content.
I bet my whole monthly salary that after the new expansion, everyone who has a "dormant" account with WoW will re-subscribe.
C'mon guys, EQ a 10 y/o game with arcaic graphic still holds onto its players quite well, what makes you think that WoW won't be able to?
Remember boys, unless something better than Wow comes out, WoW will be the top MMO.
In my opinion the only products that can give WoW hard time are 4 (maybe 5):
SWTOR from Bioware, Guild Wars 2 from Arenanet, Fallout Online (or Elders Scroll Online) from Bethesda, and...... surprise surprise, the new MMO fom Blizzard.
I could add EQ3 from SoE if Sony can get their act together and give the beautiful Lore the respect it deserve (AKA no WoW copycats).
If Bethesda would make a MMO, it would be more bugged than AOC at release
OP does have one point.. even tho his post is more of a flame rant then anything.. WoW will be in trouble soon.. The guild I'm in is a small "NON raiding" guild.. we focus on leveling, dungeons and just having fun.. However it looks like we are at the end.. We despise any form of raiding due to all the drama it causes.. More and more of the added content and patches focus on pushing people into raiding 10/25 then anything else..
Cataclysm will be the make or break expansion.. NEW races won't keep us playing WoW.. new class/combo's won't do it either.. Adding guild raiding content won't either... What does that leave left for non raiding casual guilds? It looks like virtually NOTHING.. 90% of our guild barely logs on anymore because we are bored to death with the current game.. So the OP does have a point tho.. WoW will start sliding soon.. We are already shopping and pondering where to go in 2010 to play as a group of friends, because Cataclysm doesn't look like out answer..
WoW is and was a success NOT because of raiding, but because it was very casual friendly, however that has changed for end game classes.. If end game raiding is WoW's new focus to keep people playing.. We won't be staying, as I'm sure millions of others won't either.. Good luck when you get tired of raiding..
OP does have one point.. even tho his post is more of a flame rant then anything.. WoW will be in trouble soon.. The guild I'm in is a small "NON raiding" guild.. we focus on leveling, dungeons and just having fun.. However it looks like we are at the end.. We despise any form of raiding due to all the drama it causes.. More and more of the added content and patches focus on pushing people into raiding 10/25 then anything else.. Cataclysm will be the make or break expansion.. NEW races won't keep us playing WoW.. new class/combo's won't do it either.. Adding guild raiding content won't either... What does that leave left for non raiding casual guilds? It looks like virtually NOTHING.. 90% of our guild barely logs on anymore because we are bored to death with the current game.. So the OP does have a point tho.. WoW will start sliding soon.. We are already shopping and pondering where to go in 2010 to play as a group of friends, because Cataclysm doesn't look like out answer.. WoW is and was a success NOT because of raiding, but because it was very casual friendly, however that has changed for end game classes.. If end game raiding is WoW's new focus to keep people playing.. We won't be staying, as I'm sure millions of others won't either.. Good luck when you get tired of raiding..
I do not know how long you have played the game.
But what you write is actually a very old complaint by some. And one that was much stronger some years ago.
Today there are more options in wow to be successful without being in a raiding guild than ever.
Back in Vanilla wow. 2005 - 2006. There were absolutely nothing to do unless you were in a raiding guild.
Unless you found a guild that successfully could run Zul Gurub (20 man) or Molten Core + + ( 40 man ). You would be going around in the same blue items looking for a UBRS group.
As a fresh level back in 2005 60 you had two options to have something to do:
1. Find a raiding guild (and back then it was hard to find raiding guilds that were good and accepted members). There were a lot fewer raiding guilds back then too as raiding was 40 man! and difficult to organize. + something like less than 20 % saw Molten Core and less than 5 % what was beyond that (Blackwing lair, AQ40 and Naxxramas)
2. Participate in the extremely hard pvp system where everyone competed against each other in a raking system that made it worse every week to get anywhere (since everyone got better ranks). Pvp back then was not better as some that claim wow is too easy today are saying. it was just an insane battleground grind. You would probably have to play battlegrounds 4-5 + hours a day to get anywhere.
No daily quests, no daily dungeons, no heroic dungeons, no crafting quest.. only raids or pvp.
Wow today is packed with daily quests, heroic dungeons where you can obtain tokens and buy raiding tier gear. I do not think there are any MMORPG out there that follows a level based formula that have so much content that wow has.
At the same time. I can recommend your guild to either find more members, to merge into another guild or to make a raid alliance with other casual guilds. Raiding in wow today is fun and even small raiding guilds can see almost all content in 10man dungeons. Back in the days you needed to be in a strong 40 man guild with people playing hardcore (that is why so few got there). I mean.. you could raid almost every evening (gearing up new members, finding resistance gear) and the rest of the time you had to grind consumables (in a system where making gold was rock hard. Raiders were usually poor and could just dream about having enough gold for an epic mount).
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago.
I do not know how long you have played the game. 5 years.. this is why new races is not an option.. i'm not going to delete my lvl 80 NE hunter to make a human hunter.. or deleting my lvl 80 mage to make a worgen mages.. NOT going ot happen.. after 5 years.. I have enough end game toons..
But what you write is actually a very old complaint by some. And one that was much stronger some years ago.
Today there are more options in wow to be successful without being in a raiding guild than ever. Not really.. the same problem exist , just in different clothes.. Our small friendly guild focuses on dungeons (5 man).. we have ALL the emblems we need and used.. again.. we AVOID anything that smells like raid because of drama (10+ man)
Back in Vanilla wow. 2005 - 2006. There were absolutely nothing to do unless you were in a raiding guild. Back then the game was still new enough that rerolling a 3rd and 4th or 9th toons was viable .. then you have the horde side to play with as well.. been there, done that..
Unless you found a guild that successfully could run Zul Gurub (20 man) or Molten Core + + ( 40 man ). You would be going around in the same blue items looking for a UBRS group.
As a fresh level back in 2005 60 you had two options to have something to do:
1. Find a raiding guild (and back then it was hard to find raiding guilds that were good and accepted members). There were a lot fewer raiding guilds back then too as raiding was 40 man! and difficult to organize. + something like less than 20 % saw Molten Core and less than 5 % what was beyond that (Blackwing lair, AQ40 and Naxxramas)
2. Participate in the extremely hard pvp system where everyone competed against each other in a raking system that made it worse every week to get anywhere (since everyone got better ranks). Pvp back then was not better as some that claim wow is too easy today are saying. it was just an insane battleground grind. You would probably have to play battlegrounds 4-5 + hours a day to get anywhere.
No daily quests (DAILY's suck after a week) , no daily dungeons (which rewards what?), no heroic dungeons (dont' need more emblems) , no crafting quest.( really? did I miss the memo, they now have a worthy crafting quest that gives me access to items level 245's) ?? lol . only raids or pvp. ( BINGOOOOOOO that is where we are now)
Wow today is packed with daily quests, heroic dungeons where you can obtain tokens and buy raiding tier gear. I do not think there are any MMORPG out there that follows a level based formula that have so much content that wow has.
At the same time. I can recommend your guild to either find more members,Why? to RAID, to do something we hate to do? Our entire guild has been in raiding guilds and we hate the cliquish drama.. to deny it is dishonest to merge into another guild or to make a raid alliance with other casual guilds. Raiding in wow today is fun REALLY? to log on Tues night after patch day and spend 5 hours raiding (GETTING ID"D) is fun? I guess it is for YOU.. and even small raiding guilds can see almost all content in 10man dungeons. YEP.. ONCE a week.. got to love that ID system.. Problem is..Back in the days you needed to be in a strong 40 man guild with people playing hardcore (that is why so few got there). I mean.. you could raid almost every evening (gearing up new members, finding resistance gear) and the rest of the time you had to grind consumables (in a system where making gold was rock hard. Raiders were usually poor and could just dream about having enough gold for an epic mount).
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago. LOL.. keep telling yourself that.. Blizz keeps dangling the carrot each patch as a timesink to keep people playing, however they have reached a point of make or break.. IMO.. I suspect that wow's subs will start to decline within 6 months after Cat's released..
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago. LOL.. keep telling yourself that.. Blizz keeps dangling the carrot each patch as a timesink to keep people playing, however they have reached a point of make or break.. IMO.. I suspect that wow's subs will start to decline within 6 months after Cat's released..
I suspect YOU reached a point of make or brake, time to realize that. Subs always level off and start to decline after a certain period of time after an expansion.
I do not know how long you have played the game. 5 years.. this is why new races is not an option.. i'm not going to delete my lvl 80 NE hunter to make a human hunter.. or deleting my lvl 80 mage to make a worgen mages.. NOT going ot happen.. after 5 years.. I have enough end game toons..
But what you write is actually a very old complaint by some. And one that was much stronger some years ago.
Today there are more options in wow to be successful without being in a raiding guild than ever. Not really.. the same problem exist , just in different clothes.. Our small friendly guild focuses on dungeons (5 man).. we have ALL the emblems we need and used.. again.. we AVOID anything that smells like raid because of drama (10+ man)
Back in Vanilla wow. 2005 - 2006. There were absolutely nothing to do unless you were in a raiding guild. Back then the game was still new enough that rerolling a 3rd and 4th or 9th toons was viable .. then you have the horde side to play with as well.. been there, done that..
Unless you found a guild that successfully could run Zul Gurub (20 man) or Molten Core + + ( 40 man ). You would be going around in the same blue items looking for a UBRS group.
As a fresh level back in 2005 60 you had two options to have something to do:
1. Find a raiding guild (and back then it was hard to find raiding guilds that were good and accepted members). There were a lot fewer raiding guilds back then too as raiding was 40 man! and difficult to organize. + something like less than 20 % saw Molten Core and less than 5 % what was beyond that (Blackwing lair, AQ40 and Naxxramas)
2. Participate in the extremely hard pvp system where everyone competed against each other in a raking system that made it worse every week to get anywhere (since everyone got better ranks). Pvp back then was not better as some that claim wow is too easy today are saying. it was just an insane battleground grind. You would probably have to play battlegrounds 4-5 + hours a day to get anywhere.
No daily quests (DAILY's suck after a week) , no daily dungeons (which rewards what?), no heroic dungeons (dont' need more emblems) , no crafting quest.( really? did I miss the memo, they now have a worthy crafting quest that gives me access to items level 245's) ?? lol . only raids or pvp. ( BINGOOOOOOO that is where we are now)
Wow today is packed with daily quests, heroic dungeons where you can obtain tokens and buy raiding tier gear. I do not think there are any MMORPG out there that follows a level based formula that have so much content that wow has.
At the same time. I can recommend your guild to either find more members,Why? to RAID, to do something we hate to do? Our entire guild has been in raiding guilds and we hate the cliquish drama.. to deny it is dishonest to merge into another guild or to make a raid alliance with other casual guilds. Raiding in wow today is fun REALLY? to log on Tues night after patch day and spend 5 hours raiding (GETTING ID"D) is fun? I guess it is for YOU.. and even small raiding guilds can see almost all content in 10man dungeons. YEP.. ONCE a week.. got to love that ID system.. Problem is..Back in the days you needed to be in a strong 40 man guild with people playing hardcore (that is why so few got there). I mean.. you could raid almost every evening (gearing up new members, finding resistance gear) and the rest of the time you had to grind consumables (in a system where making gold was rock hard. Raiders were usually poor and could just dream about having enough gold for an epic mount).
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago. LOL.. keep telling yourself that.. Blizz keeps dangling the carrot each patch as a timesink to keep people playing, however they have reached a point of make or break.. IMO.. I suspect that wow's subs will start to decline within 6 months after Cat's released..
when reading this I get the feeling that you suffer from a burnout or just have not been in a decent guild that have let you taste how fun and social endgame can be.
If you expect to play a game like wow in 5+ year without toutching endgame then you are bound to be dissapointed at some point.
Endgame is a part of most mmorpgs since leveling process is not something that last forever. At least not in Western mmorpgs. Eastern ones used to be different. They love to grind forever. Maybe Aion would fit you since leveling is a bit longer and everything is new and fresh obviously. Though sooner or later you will meet the exact same problem in Aion apart from Wow having a truckload of more content at endgame.
All level based games has the same challenge towards endgame.
Fact is that for every person that feels like you there are probably 100 that loves it. That is why wow still have about 10 mill more subscribers than western game number 2.. even after 5 years.
SWG that are another of my favourite games is one of the few games that do not have the end game problem the same ways as others if you play certain classes and enjoy that gameplay. But we are talking sandbox here and that is a different animal and I belive that people who are very fond of questing would not fit in sandbox games at all.. or they would love it. You never know.
Blizzard have made endgame so accessigble nowdays that they cant go further.
All this is just my opinion.
And I found out myself a long time ago. That breaks are good. Everything fades if you repeat it too often. Just as favourite food. If you eat it every day for all meals. You probably are going to think something else is a little better
Believe it or not but with Cataclysm the 12/13 M barrier will easely be breached. In fact I am afraid for my server queuing with this expansion; because Azeroth "reborn" is nothing short of WOW2 without the # negative. A new Azeroth 1 - 60, a new leveling system (Path of the Titans), a new clustered dungeon mechanism (LFG tool for 80K concurrent users), a new possibilty of leveling through PvP, a new Guild leveling system, a new open world PvP zone, new PvP titles and new competition in the BG's now, new phasing immersion). CATACYSLM is WOW restart with present day technologies. If you don't play it, you have NO clue what present day new technology can do in an mmorpg. So better be prepared.
We do not know what catacyslm will look like. I trust WoW they won't deliver anything that is not thorughly polished. On the other hand, trying to over hype it this early is not really meaningful.
Your "feel" is not looking representative if you look at some trace able facts:
Some million tracked computers in the west shows growth for WOW up and to August 2009.... And this is not some "line" coming from a website. Although the conclusions are, the important fact is the trend of the graph, traced by a few million computers... in the WEST.
----But ----
Last confirmed 11.5 M in a CEO financial press meeting was in Apr 2009 (by M Morhaime) and last up was the press conference with Guinness book of records on June 5th. Also the financial 2nd quarter 2009 reports of Blizzard showed a 12% increase over the same quarter last year. That simply means ... growth.... despite the Chinese "hic-up".
Now, IF you lie about those numbers you risk to being sued by the Ministry of Justice, because you represent a stock quoted company FYI.
Since then the China syndrome sat in, so we wait where that will lead to in the upcoming months. As WOW was free to play in China for almost 2 months, it wouldn't be fair to speak of subs isn't it?
As to "hyping", I just pointed out the "new" features of WOW in future projects of WOW, Like they were introduced at BlizzCon. Hyping is when you jump like a chimpansee before a camera and yell "awesome".
I just pointed out some (not even all) "new" upcoming features in reborn Azeroth.
And yes, Blizzard is going to need all manpower to handle those servers at launch (again).
Yes Zandorf, I help write those corporate papers for a living. I know how to twist figures to show flying colors for a dead fish.
Statistics, damn statistics, lies.
Somehow I feel that people are slightly burnt out or bored, and gradually loggin on less, or less active even online. This is my own feeling in my logged on hours.
<Mod Edited>
You see in that answer lies the real truth of your first "neutral" post.
I quote dead fish, lies and the usual "Zorndorf" title (although only registred (sic) for 20 days). ))
If Mark Morhaime confirmed offically those sub numbers at the press conference AND later with the GUinness people he can be sentenced to jail.
Blizzard is a stock quoted enterprise. You can not lie about those confirmed subscriptions. And in the end the financial UP results were there too.
So tell me about your feeling out ....the ... 596 servers of WOW.
First, you need to read up the meaning of the famous sentence, "Statistics, damned statistics, and lies".
Second, professionals "lie" everyday. Nothing a lawyer says is 100% "true". Nor are ads "100%" true. They are packaged in a way to present something apparently different from the actual facts. Statements like "100% of the INTERVIEWED DOCTORS AGREE to xyz product". This is bullshit statistics. What is interviewed, what is a doctor, what is agree to.
Blizzard does not need to break the law to manipulate figures in reports. My job is to present "facts" in a favourable way, and got paid hundred of dollars per day just to do that. Stop lecturing us how big corporates are clean. Every accountant is a liar in a professionally "clean" manner.
I never deny WoW is big, never doubt it has largest number of servers. I just state that people are less active recently. You do not have to agree with me. You play your WoW I play mine. Quoting 596 servers does not change my view about the player base I play with. I interact with only the hordes of one server.
As for registered for 20 days, may I ask, do you think your arguements are correct b/c of the age of your account here? Or do you intend to talk only to older registered handles? If that is so, feel free to move on.
OP has a point. WoW died for me with WotLK as well as for many others. I basically stopped logging in, except for a day before my sub expired. My guild had a fraction of the people on, most of the players left. I also tried it for a month in early summer after quitting Warhammer and just ended up being bored & unimpressed. The guild was no longer there. The server was still low/med, no real difference in population. The community was definitely very kiddy but I laugh at that. I ended up selling the account before the 1 month sub expired. Probably logged in about 5 times. I did notice one thing. Most of the players, by a wide margin, were new who simply purchased accounts or had it powerleveled. They were clueless about WoW prior to WotLK. It was obvious few of them even leveled through the game, most started at 60-70. What this really says to me is that the current playerbase of WoW are the late adopters in the cycle. Considering how dumbed down the game has become, it's pretty obvious that it's a simple minded demographic that is driven by marketing. The turnover in the game seems very high, but hey, that is what happens with the ADD crowd. This game has peaked and is on the down curve. I really do not understand why any original WoW player would still keep playing this anymore. The Cataclysm is way too late. That was needed after BC. The game has down too far in the borderline retarded direction in regards to challenge & depth. I do not see many players coming back, maybe the WotLK ones, but noone from original WoW. I have some interest, but at the same time, I just do not see Blizzard goingi n the opposite direction they did with WotLK. They might as well make WoW 2 to appeal to the original WoW crowd. P.S. There are better MMOs better, by a wide margin. There are also plenty of themeparks. WoW is nothing special anymore and has not been for a long time.
Nah, you're wrong, it's way better now than it ever was.
There is more options to progress than ever before, regardless of your playstyle. Less grind and much improved UI.
PVP is available for stress release or leveling or competitive needs.
Classes are more balanced than ever with more unique skills for every class.
Newer quests are leagues above the original quests and design of Outland and Northrend is more detailed, more interesting and more varied than in original Azeroth.
Crafting is usefull and every profession has some bonuses for the crafter and stuff worth making for gold.
World events are fun and bring the old world alive every time in a different way.
Raid bosses are more varied and have very detailed scripted fights that put to shame old vanilla bosses.
Achievements....
Well that's your opinion, but I will go with my own as well as the many original WoW players I know from online & real life. The game is just plain boring & tired now with minimal challenge. The only new features worth mentioning were actually copied from Warhammer: achievements & pvp leveling.
The classes have been dumbed down and homogenized. I remember my first dissapointment with patch 3.0 when they changed the talents and the creative specs for my mage were all gone. They were just simplified to be more obvious & cookie cutter. That def took the fun out of my mage.
The crafting system actually got worse with less professions having any real use. The instances are designed in a very generic & uninspired manner. The raids got much easier, and besides the revamp of Naxx, are inferior to BC & original WoW. The quests, well I never really cared much for them, as at the core, 90% of them are generic. The bosses having scripted fights, wow, do you not realize that it's just dumbing down of the game.
The PvP is a joke in WoW and open world PvP in original was much more fun & creative. BGs were much more fun before DKtards and Retardins anyway.
As for the "grind" which was never that bad anyway, it's a basic part of MMOs & RPGs. A little difficulty is always welcomed.
I do not see any appeal in the game anymore. There too many competitors, especially when it comes to innovative gameplay & depth. WoW may be enjoyed by many, and it's fine, just like McDonalds is enjoyed by many. I feel the game has seen much better days.
OP has a point. WoW died for me with WotLK as well as for many others. I basically stopped logging in, except for a day before my sub expired. My guild had a fraction of the people on, most of the players left. I also tried it for a month in early summer after quitting Warhammer and just ended up being bored & unimpressed. The guild was no longer there. The server was still low/med, no real difference in population. The community was definitely very kiddy but I laugh at that. I ended up selling the account before the 1 month sub expired. Probably logged in about 5 times. I did notice one thing. Most of the players, by a wide margin, were new who simply purchased accounts or had it powerleveled. They were clueless about WoW prior to WotLK. It was obvious few of them even leveled through the game, most started at 60-70. What this really says to me is that the current playerbase of WoW are the late adopters in the cycle. Considering how dumbed down the game has become, it's pretty obvious that it's a simple minded demographic that is driven by marketing. The turnover in the game seems very high, but hey, that is what happens with the ADD crowd. This game has peaked and is on the down curve. I really do not understand why any original WoW player would still keep playing this anymore. The Cataclysm is way too late. That was needed after BC. The game has down too far in the borderline retarded direction in regards to challenge & depth. I do not see many players coming back, maybe the WotLK ones, but noone from original WoW. I have some interest, but at the same time, I just do not see Blizzard goingi n the opposite direction they did with WotLK. They might as well make WoW 2 to appeal to the original WoW crowd. P.S. There are better MMOs better, by a wide margin. There are also plenty of themeparks. WoW is nothing special anymore and has not been for a long time.
Nah, you're wrong, it's way better now than it ever was.
There is more options to progress than ever before, regardless of your playstyle. Less grind and much improved UI.
PVP is available for stress release or leveling or competitive needs.
Classes are more balanced than ever with more unique skills for every class.
Newer quests are leagues above the original quests and design of Outland and Northrend is more detailed, more interesting and more varied than in original Azeroth.
Crafting is usefull and every profession has some bonuses for the crafter and stuff worth making for gold.
World events are fun and bring the old world alive every time in a different way.
Raid bosses are more varied and have very detailed scripted fights that put to shame old vanilla bosses.
Achievements....
Well that's your opinion, but I will go with my own as well as the many original WoW players I know from online & real life. The game is just plain boring & tired now with minimal challenge. The only new features worth mentioning were actually copied from Warhammer: achievements & pvp leveling.
The classes have been dumbed down and homogenized. I remember my first dissapointment with patch 3.0 when they changed the talents and the creative specs for my mage were all gone. They were just simplified to be more obvious & cookie cutter. That def took the fun out of my mage.
The crafting system actually got worse with less professions having any real use. The instances are designed in a very generic & uninspired manner. The raids got much easier, and besides the revamp of Naxx, are inferior to BC & original WoW. The quests, well I never really cared much for them, as at the core, 90% of them are generic. The bosses having scripted fights, wow, do you not realize that it's just dumbing down of the game.
The PvP is a joke in WoW and open world PvP in original was much more fun & creative. BGs were much more fun before DKtards and Retardins anyway.
As for the "grind" which was never that bad anyway, it's a basic part of MMOs & RPGs. A little difficulty is always welcomed.
I do not see any appeal in the game anymore. There too many competitors, especially when it comes to innovative gameplay & depth. WoW may be enjoyed by many, and it's fine, just like McDonalds is enjoyed by many. I feel the game has seen much better days.
Several objections, Achievement were copied from AA of EQ1 & EQ2, then LOTRo.
Talent trees are being changed all the time. That actually tells me the development team is trying something. Take the paly healer. When spamming HoL as a single button rules all paly heals, they changed it. You feel angry b/c they remove some old and tried template/gear combo? I am ok with that. They take away 4xT8 druid set bonus, this gives me the incentive to mix and match again.
Top level crafting is useless? You get to be kidding, with every new batch, I find my JC working at least 1 hour a day cutting every kind of new gems, so is my enchanter, but less business (more competiton). I sell all my 3xtitansteel CDs every day I log on, within 10 minutes. I sell my spellweave CD long before the CD is over, people mailed me 4 stacks of cloths and all money upfront, just to have me mailing back the 2 cloths every 4 days. Every 20hours, an epic gem transmute gets me 50g comfortably. They are useless? My crafting nets me 150-200g a day. Depending on my hard I care to craft.
The rest of your post are opinions, and some of those I echo. The game does feel old in some ways. But, I have yet to find another game that provides so much variety under one roof.
OP does have one point.. even tho his post is more of a flame rant then anything.. WoW will be in trouble soon.. The guild I'm in is a small "NON raiding" guild.. we focus on leveling, dungeons and just having fun.. However it looks like we are at the end.. We despise any form of raiding due to all the drama it causes.. More and more of the added content and patches focus on pushing people into raiding 10/25 then anything else.. Cataclysm will be the make or break expansion.. NEW races won't keep us playing WoW.. new class/combo's won't do it either.. Adding guild raiding content won't either... What does that leave left for non raiding casual guilds? It looks like virtually NOTHING.. 90% of our guild barely logs on anymore because we are bored to death with the current game.. So the OP does have a point tho.. WoW will start sliding soon.. We are already shopping and pondering where to go in 2010 to play as a group of friends, because Cataclysm doesn't look like out answer.. WoW is and was a success NOT because of raiding, but because it was very casual friendly, however that has changed for end game classes.. If end game raiding is WoW's new focus to keep people playing.. We won't be staying, as I'm sure millions of others won't either.. Good luck when you get tired of raiding..
Same here my guild does not raid. Been playing the game since release and after trying raiding during Vanilla WoW and TBC I decided those who raid were clearing not people I could tolerate. The game is a hobby not a second job and if one more miserable oxygen thief tells me to lock my kids in my room so i can raid I just might snap. Blizzard should just make 5 man versions of all raid content and lower the loot table. Those of us who don't raid don't have an inferiority complex and have no need to worry about our epeens. I don't care if they keep adding raids but if they want to keep older players they need to give us more access to the content. Leave the raiding to those with more time than responsibilities. For the raiders don't bother saying you have lots of RL responsibilities and just use time management as you are wasting your breath. If you have a job and kids and raid 4 nights a week then you are neglecting one or the other.
Am I the only one that hates reading through quoted text? For me Wow passed its prime and became easy mode with BC. Some of the best times I had in any MMO was in the original WoW when purple meant something. Wow will die when Blizz wants it to or when their next title comes out - which will probably be one and the same.
A few years ago, the company website that services this game in China announced that out of worldwide subs, 3.5 million of them were in China. There was an internet news story about the same time that told of farming businesses there, where the small company owning 12 or so computers would have a hundred accounts because of the 2 hour a day MMO limitation in China. This combined with a monthly sub cost much lower than US would seem to make such an easy time for them to make their money. It seems to be much harder to do now. Perhaps this is why you have seen a noticeable drop in numbers.
It could also have a lot to do with content. There doesn't seem to be enough of it for a lot of people. Either that or it's too quick to go through it. There are other games that are much larger and cheaper. I realize that many people think it's just fine. It's great that you can hold on to it. It didn't hold my interest very long knowing what else is out there.
Sometimes I would hear, 'I'm going to play WoW because all my friends do'. They jumped on the band wagon with their friends. Perhaps it didn't hold their interest and they moved on, because in the first place they only played it to be with friends.
Many things that rise in popularity quickly, fall quickly at some point. It happens when people follow a trend. It may be populous on some servers as people say, but it doesn't seem to be the case across the board.
If they don't consolidate servers at some point, more people will leave, making it even worse.
Comments
I have to agree with OP; the game does feel like it is leveling off. But, 5 years is a good run for a game to remain in its prime.
No doubt, WOW will continue and get revitalized with Cataclysm, but I do think the overall downward trend is on its way. This is good; this means Blizzard will have to roll out its new secret MMO sometime.
I have heard simmilar since a few months after wow release in 2005. There is actually also a list somewhere with all things that was going to kill wow.. and that was hundreds of things from Undead being horde, to gnomes, to Guildwars and so on.
Fact is that wow has so many players. I mean, a game that have 250k is making money. And considered good. Wow has millions. It could losse half its players and still be an enormous success.
Cataclysm is almost wow 2 and will bring a bunch of players back. Blizzard is already fighting queues and have to upgrade servers to deal with population..
So I don't think we will see Wow die any time soon.
Wow might die as a game for some of players. But its too easy for a person to conclude that wow is dying just because that person feel the game has lost its magic. Wow still get new players. Wow have returning players, players that leaves.
A game like wow that also was the first MMORPG for many will always hold a special place in lots of peoples heart so there will alwyas be enough players around to make it a good business for Blizzard. Even if they loose 90% of todays playerbase Im sure they would still make money from that game.
I have just leveled a hunter from 1 to 80 and while naturally not so many lower levels as the first weeks and months of wow, there are more in wow than most games. People make alts and so on. And Cataclysm is going to reset that counter once again, like BC did when there is new races. That means new years with a lot of players. Even more this time as all instances and basically everything is changed.
I dont think even Blizzard will Top wow. So many things got right for that game. And it has so many untyphical MMO gamers that will not play anything else. The time it was released. The content (elfs, dwarfs and humans are appealing to a lot more people broadly than most other theemes), the colorfull graphics.. so many things that was right. Not to mention that the amount of games at the marked at that time was much lower than now.
OP has a point.
WoW died for me with WotLK as well as for many others. I basically stopped logging in, except for a day before my sub expired. My guild had a fraction of the people on, most of the players left. I also tried it for a month in early summer after quitting Warhammer and just ended up being bored & unimpressed. The guild was no longer there. The server was still low/med, no real difference in population. The community was definitely very kiddy but I laugh at that.
I ended up selling the account before the 1 month sub expired. Probably logged in about 5 times.
I did notice one thing. Most of the players, by a wide margin, were new who simply purchased accounts or had it powerleveled. They were clueless about WoW prior to WotLK. It was obvious few of them even leveled through the game, most started at 60-70.
What this really says to me is that the current playerbase of WoW are the late adopters in the cycle. Considering how dumbed down the game has become, it's pretty obvious that it's a simple minded demographic that is driven by marketing. The turnover in the game seems very high, but hey, that is what happens with the ADD crowd.
This game has peaked and is on the down curve. I really do not understand why any original WoW player would still keep playing this anymore.
The Cataclysm is way too late. That was needed after BC. The game has down too far in the borderline retarded direction in regards to challenge & depth. I do not see many players coming back, maybe the WotLK ones, but noone from original WoW. I have some interest, but at the same time, I just do not see Blizzard goingi n the opposite direction they did with WotLK. They might as well make WoW 2 to appeal to the original WoW crowd.
P.S. There are better MMOs better, by a wide margin. There are also plenty of themeparks. WoW is nothing special anymore and has not been for a long time.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
There is so much fail in this thread. I logged on to WoW to run my team's matches on Sunday. Guess what there was a queue. Now, the queue may not have been 500+ like at the start of Wrath, but then again we had no queue during BC / Vanilla. Wow is doing fine and will not miss a few more skill less players. Grinding your way to pvp items was pretty boring.
Nah, you're wrong, it's way better now than it ever was.
There is more options to progress than ever before, regardless of your playstyle. Less grind and much improved UI.
PVP is available for stress release or leveling or competitive needs.
Classes are more balanced than ever with more unique skills for every class.
Newer quests are leagues above the original quests and design of Outland and Northrend is more detailed, more interesting and more varied than in original Azeroth.
Crafting is usefull and every profession has some bonuses for the crafter and stuff worth making for gold.
World events are fun and bring the old world alive every time in a different way.
Raid bosses are more varied and have very detailed scripted fights that put to shame old vanilla bosses.
Achievements....
I am pretty sure someone has predicted this for STARCRAFT couple of years ago.
WoW is doing fine.
For this month's PC NPD all 4 WoW boxes(WoW, TBC, Battle Chest and WotLK) are in the top 15.
The original WoW box is still in the top 10 after almost 5 years.
it is indeed dying, and it is simply because they have failed to do anything new or innovative and people have moved on. It happens in video games, and it is something that developers try and design around, but it doesn't always work. There is always a hayday for a game, and WoW has had it. It will remain widely popular due to name recognition such as EQ still does, but it is indeed going to decrease. Not a surprise, but just the nature of the market. This post is like stating that pizza is delicious you can't prove it, but there are a lot of people who would agree and a lot who will disagree.
Zorn, I am not a WoW hater, I raid 3 nights a week. Our family share 4 accounts.
That said, I no longer believe in the 11m count. I surely feel that less people are loggin on now. Its getting hard to get raids after the Wednesday rush. Apart from the scheduled raids, PUGs or freely organised additional raids are less well received.
We do not know what catacyslm will look like. I trust WoW they won't deliver anything that is not thorughly polished. On the other hand, trying to over hype it this early is not really meaningful.
One thing we know, WoW can survive challenge. WoW need not come up with the more innovative idea, WoW has the money to implement and distill the good ideas of any competitor. WoW's Achievement is far more varied than EQ's boring AA grind. WoW's WG makes WAR look so primitive. WoW adopt a lot of the new idea of new mods and constantly upgrade their interface. The real strength of WoW is its big and solid foundation. It has too many options to copy and improve upon good features designed by competitors. Instead of the pure kill mobs grind of LOTRo for "achievement", we have fishing achievement, eat this and that combo achievement, kill a buch of unique mobs achievement, jump from sky high and not die achievement. No games on earth has so much variety in the core game to allow such freedom in game feature implementation. Everything Blizz sees as good, there are numerous ways for them to speedily implement into WoW, and with good chances of not bugging, as the core is solid, and bug free at large.
I never see Blizz as excessively original and innovative, but they maintained a game that delivers the greatest variety and kept up toe to toe with the good features of almost all other games out there. That means in 1 sub, I got the largest selection of game options. I only need to sub a few other truly unique games for features not compatible with WoW, games like CoH/CoV.
We do not know what catacyslm will look like. I trust WoW they won't deliver anything that is not thorughly polished. On the other hand, trying to over hype it this early is not really meaningful.
Your "feel" is not looking representative if you look at some trace able facts:
http://www.wow.com/2009/09/29/is-wows-audience-still-increasing/#continued
Some million tracked computers in the west shows growth for WOW up and to August 2009.... And this is not some "line" coming from a website. Although the conclusions are, the important fact is the trend of the graph, traced by a few million computers... in the WEST.
----But ----
Last confirmed 11.5 M in a CEO financial press meeting was in Apr 2009 (by M Morhaime) and last up was the press conference with Guinness book of records on June 5th. Also the financial 2nd quarter 2009 reports of Blizzard showed a 12% increase over the same quarter last year. That simply means ... growth.... despite the Chinese "hic-up".
http://www.wow.com/2009/06/08/mike-morhaime-and-paul-sams-accept-guinness-world-record-awards/
Now, IF you lie about those numbers you risk to being sued by the Ministry of Justice, because you represent a stock quoted company FYI.
Since then the China syndrome sat in, so we wait where that will lead to in the upcoming months. As WOW was free to play in China for almost 2 months, it wouldn't be fair to speak of subs isn't it?
As to "hyping", I just pointed out the "new" features of WOW in future projects of WOW, Like they were introduced at BlizzCon. Hyping is when you jump like a chimpansee before a camera and yell "awesome".
I just pointed out some (not even all) "new" upcoming features in reborn Azeroth.
And yes, Blizzard is going to need all manpower to handle those servers at launch (again).
Yes Zandorf, I help write those corporate papers for a living. I know how to twist figures to show flying colors for a dead fish.
Statistics, damn statistics, lies.
We all see what Blizz is talking about in the new expansion. Talking on paper =/= gameplay. I am looking at Diablo 3, at the demo and I keep asking, do I know how it feels playing out. For a month, a year? I don't.
I never doubt Blizz. I will reserve my judgment till after paying for a few months playing it out.
No one doubt that WoW is selling boxes. At this global scale, its very hard to manipulate excessively. No one doubts that WoW has the largest number of filled servers and is played around the clock, around the globe. Somehow I feel that people are slightly burnt out or bored, and gradually loggin on less, or less active even online. This is my own feeling in my logged on hours.
Even if WoW is dying (who or what is not) it is far from dead.
For it to replaced, there has to be something that will replace it and there is nothing really yet.
Was EQ more successful than WoW? And EQ is still going, after how many years?
What would happen if Bilizzard slashed the monthly sub to say £2 amonth? How long would it take to die then i ask?
If Bethesda would make a MMO, it would be more bugged than AOC at release
OP does have one point.. even tho his post is more of a flame rant then anything.. WoW will be in trouble soon.. The guild I'm in is a small "NON raiding" guild.. we focus on leveling, dungeons and just having fun.. However it looks like we are at the end.. We despise any form of raiding due to all the drama it causes.. More and more of the added content and patches focus on pushing people into raiding 10/25 then anything else..
Cataclysm will be the make or break expansion.. NEW races won't keep us playing WoW.. new class/combo's won't do it either.. Adding guild raiding content won't either... What does that leave left for non raiding casual guilds? It looks like virtually NOTHING.. 90% of our guild barely logs on anymore because we are bored to death with the current game.. So the OP does have a point tho.. WoW will start sliding soon.. We are already shopping and pondering where to go in 2010 to play as a group of friends, because Cataclysm doesn't look like out answer..
WoW is and was a success NOT because of raiding, but because it was very casual friendly, however that has changed for end game classes.. If end game raiding is WoW's new focus to keep people playing.. We won't be staying, as I'm sure millions of others won't either.. Good luck when you get tired of raiding..
I do not know how long you have played the game.
But what you write is actually a very old complaint by some. And one that was much stronger some years ago.
Today there are more options in wow to be successful without being in a raiding guild than ever.
Back in Vanilla wow. 2005 - 2006. There were absolutely nothing to do unless you were in a raiding guild.
Unless you found a guild that successfully could run Zul Gurub (20 man) or Molten Core + + ( 40 man ). You would be going around in the same blue items looking for a UBRS group.
As a fresh level back in 2005 60 you had two options to have something to do:
1. Find a raiding guild (and back then it was hard to find raiding guilds that were good and accepted members). There were a lot fewer raiding guilds back then too as raiding was 40 man! and difficult to organize. + something like less than 20 % saw Molten Core and less than 5 % what was beyond that (Blackwing lair, AQ40 and Naxxramas)
2. Participate in the extremely hard pvp system where everyone competed against each other in a raking system that made it worse every week to get anywhere (since everyone got better ranks). Pvp back then was not better as some that claim wow is too easy today are saying. it was just an insane battleground grind. You would probably have to play battlegrounds 4-5 + hours a day to get anywhere.
No daily quests, no daily dungeons, no heroic dungeons, no crafting quest.. only raids or pvp.
Wow today is packed with daily quests, heroic dungeons where you can obtain tokens and buy raiding tier gear. I do not think there are any MMORPG out there that follows a level based formula that have so much content that wow has.
At the same time. I can recommend your guild to either find more members, to merge into another guild or to make a raid alliance with other casual guilds. Raiding in wow today is fun and even small raiding guilds can see almost all content in 10man dungeons. Back in the days you needed to be in a strong 40 man guild with people playing hardcore (that is why so few got there). I mean.. you could raid almost every evening (gearing up new members, finding resistance gear) and the rest of the time you had to grind consumables (in a system where making gold was rock hard. Raiders were usually poor and could just dream about having enough gold for an epic mount).
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago.
I do not know how long you have played the game. 5 years.. this is why new races is not an option.. i'm not going to delete my lvl 80 NE hunter to make a human hunter.. or deleting my lvl 80 mage to make a worgen mages.. NOT going ot happen.. after 5 years.. I have enough end game toons..
But what you write is actually a very old complaint by some. And one that was much stronger some years ago.
Today there are more options in wow to be successful without being in a raiding guild than ever. Not really.. the same problem exist , just in different clothes.. Our small friendly guild focuses on dungeons (5 man).. we have ALL the emblems we need and used.. again.. we AVOID anything that smells like raid because of drama (10+ man)
Back in Vanilla wow. 2005 - 2006. There were absolutely nothing to do unless you were in a raiding guild. Back then the game was still new enough that rerolling a 3rd and 4th or 9th toons was viable .. then you have the horde side to play with as well.. been there, done that..
Unless you found a guild that successfully could run Zul Gurub (20 man) or Molten Core + + ( 40 man ). You would be going around in the same blue items looking for a UBRS group.
As a fresh level back in 2005 60 you had two options to have something to do:
1. Find a raiding guild (and back then it was hard to find raiding guilds that were good and accepted members). There were a lot fewer raiding guilds back then too as raiding was 40 man! and difficult to organize. + something like less than 20 % saw Molten Core and less than 5 % what was beyond that (Blackwing lair, AQ40 and Naxxramas)
2. Participate in the extremely hard pvp system where everyone competed against each other in a raking system that made it worse every week to get anywhere (since everyone got better ranks). Pvp back then was not better as some that claim wow is too easy today are saying. it was just an insane battleground grind. You would probably have to play battlegrounds 4-5 + hours a day to get anywhere.
No daily quests (DAILY's suck after a week) , no daily dungeons (which rewards what?), no heroic dungeons (dont' need more emblems) , no crafting quest.( really? did I miss the memo, they now have a worthy crafting quest that gives me access to items level 245's) ?? lol . only raids or pvp. ( BINGOOOOOOO that is where we are now)
Wow today is packed with daily quests, heroic dungeons where you can obtain tokens and buy raiding tier gear. I do not think there are any MMORPG out there that follows a level based formula that have so much content that wow has.
At the same time. I can recommend your guild to either find more members,Why? to RAID, to do something we hate to do? Our entire guild has been in raiding guilds and we hate the cliquish drama.. to deny it is dishonest to merge into another guild or to make a raid alliance with other casual guilds. Raiding in wow today is fun REALLY? to log on Tues night after patch day and spend 5 hours raiding (GETTING ID"D) is fun? I guess it is for YOU.. and even small raiding guilds can see almost all content in 10man dungeons. YEP.. ONCE a week.. got to love that ID system.. Problem is..Back in the days you needed to be in a strong 40 man guild with people playing hardcore (that is why so few got there). I mean.. you could raid almost every evening (gearing up new members, finding resistance gear) and the rest of the time you had to grind consumables (in a system where making gold was rock hard. Raiders were usually poor and could just dream about having enough gold for an epic mount).
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago. LOL.. keep telling yourself that.. Blizz keeps dangling the carrot each patch as a timesink to keep people playing, however they have reached a point of make or break.. IMO.. I suspect that wow's subs will start to decline within 6 months after Cat's released..
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago. LOL.. keep telling yourself that.. Blizz keeps dangling the carrot each patch as a timesink to keep people playing, however they have reached a point of make or break.. IMO.. I suspect that wow's subs will start to decline within 6 months after Cat's released..
I suspect YOU reached a point of make or brake, time to realize that. Subs always level off and start to decline after a certain period of time after an expansion.
I do not know how long you have played the game. 5 years.. this is why new races is not an option.. i'm not going to delete my lvl 80 NE hunter to make a human hunter.. or deleting my lvl 80 mage to make a worgen mages.. NOT going ot happen.. after 5 years.. I have enough end game toons..
But what you write is actually a very old complaint by some. And one that was much stronger some years ago.
Today there are more options in wow to be successful without being in a raiding guild than ever. Not really.. the same problem exist , just in different clothes.. Our small friendly guild focuses on dungeons (5 man).. we have ALL the emblems we need and used.. again.. we AVOID anything that smells like raid because of drama (10+ man)
Back in Vanilla wow. 2005 - 2006. There were absolutely nothing to do unless you were in a raiding guild. Back then the game was still new enough that rerolling a 3rd and 4th or 9th toons was viable .. then you have the horde side to play with as well.. been there, done that..
Unless you found a guild that successfully could run Zul Gurub (20 man) or Molten Core + + ( 40 man ). You would be going around in the same blue items looking for a UBRS group.
As a fresh level back in 2005 60 you had two options to have something to do:
1. Find a raiding guild (and back then it was hard to find raiding guilds that were good and accepted members). There were a lot fewer raiding guilds back then too as raiding was 40 man! and difficult to organize. + something like less than 20 % saw Molten Core and less than 5 % what was beyond that (Blackwing lair, AQ40 and Naxxramas)
2. Participate in the extremely hard pvp system where everyone competed against each other in a raking system that made it worse every week to get anywhere (since everyone got better ranks). Pvp back then was not better as some that claim wow is too easy today are saying. it was just an insane battleground grind. You would probably have to play battlegrounds 4-5 + hours a day to get anywhere.
No daily quests (DAILY's suck after a week) , no daily dungeons (which rewards what?), no heroic dungeons (dont' need more emblems) , no crafting quest.( really? did I miss the memo, they now have a worthy crafting quest that gives me access to items level 245's) ?? lol . only raids or pvp. ( BINGOOOOOOO that is where we are now)
Wow today is packed with daily quests, heroic dungeons where you can obtain tokens and buy raiding tier gear. I do not think there are any MMORPG out there that follows a level based formula that have so much content that wow has.
At the same time. I can recommend your guild to either find more members,Why? to RAID, to do something we hate to do? Our entire guild has been in raiding guilds and we hate the cliquish drama.. to deny it is dishonest to merge into another guild or to make a raid alliance with other casual guilds. Raiding in wow today is fun REALLY? to log on Tues night after patch day and spend 5 hours raiding (GETTING ID"D) is fun? I guess it is for YOU.. and even small raiding guilds can see almost all content in 10man dungeons. YEP.. ONCE a week.. got to love that ID system.. Problem is..Back in the days you needed to be in a strong 40 man guild with people playing hardcore (that is why so few got there). I mean.. you could raid almost every evening (gearing up new members, finding resistance gear) and the rest of the time you had to grind consumables (in a system where making gold was rock hard. Raiders were usually poor and could just dream about having enough gold for an epic mount).
So I strongly doubt that wow will die due to such a reason. If so it would have died years ago. LOL.. keep telling yourself that.. Blizz keeps dangling the carrot each patch as a timesink to keep people playing, however they have reached a point of make or break.. IMO.. I suspect that wow's subs will start to decline within 6 months after Cat's released..
when reading this I get the feeling that you suffer from a burnout or just have not been in a decent guild that have let you taste how fun and social endgame can be.
If you expect to play a game like wow in 5+ year without toutching endgame then you are bound to be dissapointed at some point.
Endgame is a part of most mmorpgs since leveling process is not something that last forever. At least not in Western mmorpgs. Eastern ones used to be different. They love to grind forever. Maybe Aion would fit you since leveling is a bit longer and everything is new and fresh obviously. Though sooner or later you will meet the exact same problem in Aion apart from Wow having a truckload of more content at endgame.
All level based games has the same challenge towards endgame.
Fact is that for every person that feels like you there are probably 100 that loves it. That is why wow still have about 10 mill more subscribers than western game number 2.. even after 5 years.
SWG that are another of my favourite games is one of the few games that do not have the end game problem the same ways as others if you play certain classes and enjoy that gameplay. But we are talking sandbox here and that is a different animal and I belive that people who are very fond of questing would not fit in sandbox games at all.. or they would love it. You never know.
Blizzard have made endgame so accessigble nowdays that they cant go further.
All this is just my opinion.
And I found out myself a long time ago. That breaks are good. Everything fades if you repeat it too often. Just as favourite food. If you eat it every day for all meals. You probably are going to think something else is a little better
We do not know what catacyslm will look like. I trust WoW they won't deliver anything that is not thorughly polished. On the other hand, trying to over hype it this early is not really meaningful.
Your "feel" is not looking representative if you look at some trace able facts:
http://www.wow.com/2009/09/29/is-wows-audience-still-increasing/#continued
Some million tracked computers in the west shows growth for WOW up and to August 2009.... And this is not some "line" coming from a website. Although the conclusions are, the important fact is the trend of the graph, traced by a few million computers... in the WEST.
----But ----
Last confirmed 11.5 M in a CEO financial press meeting was in Apr 2009 (by M Morhaime) and last up was the press conference with Guinness book of records on June 5th. Also the financial 2nd quarter 2009 reports of Blizzard showed a 12% increase over the same quarter last year. That simply means ... growth.... despite the Chinese "hic-up".
http://www.wow.com/2009/06/08/mike-morhaime-and-paul-sams-accept-guinness-world-record-awards/
Now, IF you lie about those numbers you risk to being sued by the Ministry of Justice, because you represent a stock quoted company FYI.
Since then the China syndrome sat in, so we wait where that will lead to in the upcoming months. As WOW was free to play in China for almost 2 months, it wouldn't be fair to speak of subs isn't it?
As to "hyping", I just pointed out the "new" features of WOW in future projects of WOW, Like they were introduced at BlizzCon. Hyping is when you jump like a chimpansee before a camera and yell "awesome".
I just pointed out some (not even all) "new" upcoming features in reborn Azeroth.
And yes, Blizzard is going to need all manpower to handle those servers at launch (again).
Yes Zandorf, I help write those corporate papers for a living. I know how to twist figures to show flying colors for a dead fish.
Statistics, damn statistics, lies.
Somehow I feel that people are slightly burnt out or bored, and gradually loggin on less, or less active even online. This is my own feeling in my logged on hours.
<Mod Edited>
You see in that answer lies the real truth of your first "neutral" post.
I quote dead fish, lies and the usual "Zorndorf" title (although only registred (sic) for 20 days).
))
If Mark Morhaime confirmed offically those sub numbers at the press conference AND later with the GUinness people he can be sentenced to jail.
Blizzard is a stock quoted enterprise. You can not lie about those confirmed subscriptions. And in the end the financial UP results were there too.
So tell me about your feeling out ....the ... 596 servers of WOW.
First, you need to read up the meaning of the famous sentence, "Statistics, damned statistics, and lies".
Second, professionals "lie" everyday. Nothing a lawyer says is 100% "true". Nor are ads "100%" true. They are packaged in a way to present something apparently different from the actual facts. Statements like "100% of the INTERVIEWED DOCTORS AGREE to xyz product". This is bullshit statistics. What is interviewed, what is a doctor, what is agree to.
Blizzard does not need to break the law to manipulate figures in reports. My job is to present "facts" in a favourable way, and got paid hundred of dollars per day just to do that. Stop lecturing us how big corporates are clean. Every accountant is a liar in a professionally "clean" manner.
I never deny WoW is big, never doubt it has largest number of servers. I just state that people are less active recently. You do not have to agree with me. You play your WoW I play mine. Quoting 596 servers does not change my view about the player base I play with. I interact with only the hordes of one server.
As for registered for 20 days, may I ask, do you think your arguements are correct b/c of the age of your account here? Or do you intend to talk only to older registered handles? If that is so, feel free to move on.
It's "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Nah, you're wrong, it's way better now than it ever was.
There is more options to progress than ever before, regardless of your playstyle. Less grind and much improved UI.
PVP is available for stress release or leveling or competitive needs.
Classes are more balanced than ever with more unique skills for every class.
Newer quests are leagues above the original quests and design of Outland and Northrend is more detailed, more interesting and more varied than in original Azeroth.
Crafting is usefull and every profession has some bonuses for the crafter and stuff worth making for gold.
World events are fun and bring the old world alive every time in a different way.
Raid bosses are more varied and have very detailed scripted fights that put to shame old vanilla bosses.
Achievements....
Well that's your opinion, but I will go with my own as well as the many original WoW players I know from online & real life. The game is just plain boring & tired now with minimal challenge. The only new features worth mentioning were actually copied from Warhammer: achievements & pvp leveling.
The classes have been dumbed down and homogenized. I remember my first dissapointment with patch 3.0 when they changed the talents and the creative specs for my mage were all gone. They were just simplified to be more obvious & cookie cutter. That def took the fun out of my mage.
The crafting system actually got worse with less professions having any real use. The instances are designed in a very generic & uninspired manner. The raids got much easier, and besides the revamp of Naxx, are inferior to BC & original WoW. The quests, well I never really cared much for them, as at the core, 90% of them are generic. The bosses having scripted fights, wow, do you not realize that it's just dumbing down of the game.
The PvP is a joke in WoW and open world PvP in original was much more fun & creative. BGs were much more fun before DKtards and Retardins anyway.
As for the "grind" which was never that bad anyway, it's a basic part of MMOs & RPGs. A little difficulty is always welcomed.
I do not see any appeal in the game anymore. There too many competitors, especially when it comes to innovative gameplay & depth. WoW may be enjoyed by many, and it's fine, just like McDonalds is enjoyed by many. I feel the game has seen much better days.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
Yes you are right.
Nah, you're wrong, it's way better now than it ever was.
There is more options to progress than ever before, regardless of your playstyle. Less grind and much improved UI.
PVP is available for stress release or leveling or competitive needs.
Classes are more balanced than ever with more unique skills for every class.
Newer quests are leagues above the original quests and design of Outland and Northrend is more detailed, more interesting and more varied than in original Azeroth.
Crafting is usefull and every profession has some bonuses for the crafter and stuff worth making for gold.
World events are fun and bring the old world alive every time in a different way.
Raid bosses are more varied and have very detailed scripted fights that put to shame old vanilla bosses.
Achievements....
Well that's your opinion, but I will go with my own as well as the many original WoW players I know from online & real life. The game is just plain boring & tired now with minimal challenge. The only new features worth mentioning were actually copied from Warhammer: achievements & pvp leveling.
The classes have been dumbed down and homogenized. I remember my first dissapointment with patch 3.0 when they changed the talents and the creative specs for my mage were all gone. They were just simplified to be more obvious & cookie cutter. That def took the fun out of my mage.
The crafting system actually got worse with less professions having any real use. The instances are designed in a very generic & uninspired manner. The raids got much easier, and besides the revamp of Naxx, are inferior to BC & original WoW. The quests, well I never really cared much for them, as at the core, 90% of them are generic. The bosses having scripted fights, wow, do you not realize that it's just dumbing down of the game.
The PvP is a joke in WoW and open world PvP in original was much more fun & creative. BGs were much more fun before DKtards and Retardins anyway.
As for the "grind" which was never that bad anyway, it's a basic part of MMOs & RPGs. A little difficulty is always welcomed.
I do not see any appeal in the game anymore. There too many competitors, especially when it comes to innovative gameplay & depth. WoW may be enjoyed by many, and it's fine, just like McDonalds is enjoyed by many. I feel the game has seen much better days.
Several objections, Achievement were copied from AA of EQ1 & EQ2, then LOTRo.
Talent trees are being changed all the time. That actually tells me the development team is trying something. Take the paly healer. When spamming HoL as a single button rules all paly heals, they changed it. You feel angry b/c they remove some old and tried template/gear combo? I am ok with that. They take away 4xT8 druid set bonus, this gives me the incentive to mix and match again.
Top level crafting is useless? You get to be kidding, with every new batch, I find my JC working at least 1 hour a day cutting every kind of new gems, so is my enchanter, but less business (more competiton). I sell all my 3xtitansteel CDs every day I log on, within 10 minutes. I sell my spellweave CD long before the CD is over, people mailed me 4 stacks of cloths and all money upfront, just to have me mailing back the 2 cloths every 4 days. Every 20hours, an epic gem transmute gets me 50g comfortably. They are useless? My crafting nets me 150-200g a day. Depending on my hard I care to craft.
The rest of your post are opinions, and some of those I echo. The game does feel old in some ways. But, I have yet to find another game that provides so much variety under one roof.
Same here my guild does not raid. Been playing the game since release and after trying raiding during Vanilla WoW and TBC I decided those who raid were clearing not people I could tolerate. The game is a hobby not a second job and if one more miserable oxygen thief tells me to lock my kids in my room so i can raid I just might snap. Blizzard should just make 5 man versions of all raid content and lower the loot table. Those of us who don't raid don't have an inferiority complex and have no need to worry about our epeens. I don't care if they keep adding raids but if they want to keep older players they need to give us more access to the content. Leave the raiding to those with more time than responsibilities. For the raiders don't bother saying you have lots of RL responsibilities and just use time management as you are wasting your breath. If you have a job and kids and raid 4 nights a week then you are neglecting one or the other.
Am I the only one that hates reading through quoted text? For me Wow passed its prime and became easy mode with BC. Some of the best times I had in any MMO was in the original WoW when purple meant something. Wow will die when Blizz wants it to or when their next title comes out - which will probably be one and the same.
A few years ago, the company website that services this game in China announced that out of worldwide subs, 3.5 million of them were in China. There was an internet news story about the same time that told of farming businesses there, where the small company owning 12 or so computers would have a hundred accounts because of the 2 hour a day MMO limitation in China. This combined with a monthly sub cost much lower than US would seem to make such an easy time for them to make their money. It seems to be much harder to do now. Perhaps this is why you have seen a noticeable drop in numbers.
It could also have a lot to do with content. There doesn't seem to be enough of it for a lot of people. Either that or it's too quick to go through it. There are other games that are much larger and cheaper. I realize that many people think it's just fine. It's great that you can hold on to it. It didn't hold my interest very long knowing what else is out there.
Sometimes I would hear, 'I'm going to play WoW because all my friends do'. They jumped on the band wagon with their friends. Perhaps it didn't hold their interest and they moved on, because in the first place they only played it to be with friends.
Many things that rise in popularity quickly, fall quickly at some point. It happens when people follow a trend. It may be populous on some servers as people say, but it doesn't seem to be the case across the board.
If they don't consolidate servers at some point, more people will leave, making it even worse.