I saw it.. but I have seen so many videos from so many games fan faires.. and there are always people "complaining" or . giving constructive feedback about almost anything.. ( Since most people are just passsionate about their games.. calling it complaints might be wrong.) Maybe not the best feature of the game for everyone,, but certainly not game breaking. I only wish that they had made those card for real. I would have collected them then. If they start to add things like "best in slot" items.. or dungeons that are only accessible if you play or have trading card game.. then I would completely agree with you. Again only my point of view. As a current SWG player I don't see much problems with it.. So far. But yes.. people, including myself would love to see more resources put into SWG. Not because its horrible, but because its good and we want more of it. I think that is the case for those at that fan faire too.. since people traveling to fan faires are fans of agame.. and I never claimed SOE is doing everything right.. maybe trading card proves to be wrong.. SWG is not perfect. No games are perfect.
You don't see a problem with it?
What if the loot cards had the 30 buffs from entertainers instead of you being able to use them when you play. Would that be game breaking for you? Would you still say that is isn't game breaking if your class was the one being deprived of that content?
Now ask the crafters who makes houses, vehicles, clothes and other loot card items how they feel about loots cards getting more attention and updates than they have in the last four years. Please don't answer with the latest patch that added a fraction of what the loot cards have.
I fully expected you to say "if it is game breaking items then it will be a problem". Which is the same exact things eq2 players said in defense of the loot cards over there. They defended the card game as harmless and look where that is. SWG is next, so please don't complain when it happens, because you had your chance.
Also, you said the loot cards don't affect the game, but they are being used as virtual currency for in game items/money. So yes it does affect the game. Why did you ignore that?
"certainly not game breaking" LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on? I SAY ROFL
We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:
Architect:
I was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name. It is called Trader (structure).
Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).
Trader Classes today are like this:
Trader (Domestic Goods) = Chef / Tailor
Trader (Munitions) = Weaponsmith/Armorsmith
Trader (Engineering) = Droid/Weaponsmith
Trader (Structures) = Architect/Shipwright
When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.
Politician:
Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints. And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun
Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.
Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master.. Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.
"certainly not game breaking" LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on? I SAY ROFL
We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:
Architect:
I was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name. It is called Trader (structure).
Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).
Trader Classes today are like this:
Trader (Domestic Goods) = Chef / Tailor
Trader (Munitions) = Weaponsmith/Armorsmith
Trader (Engineering) = Droid/Weaponsmith
Trader (Structures) = Architect/Shipwright
When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.
Politician:
Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints. And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun
Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.
Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master.. Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.
Im sorry, thats not much of a comfort to people that lost their chars. The Creature Handler (for example) was DELETED and NOW it was releases as a new (CLASS). And that was released as a new feature??? lol
"certainly not game breaking" LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on? I SAY ROFL
We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:
Architect:
I was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name. It is called Trader (structure).
Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).
Trader Classes today are like this:
Trader (Domestic Goods) = Chef / Tailor
Trader (Munitions) = Weaponsmith/Armorsmith
Trader (Engineering) = Droid/Weaponsmith
Trader (Structures) = Architect/Shipwright
When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.
Politician:
Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints. And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun
Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.
Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master.. Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.
Im sorry, thats not much of a comfort to people that lost their chars. The Creature Handler (for example) was DELETED and NOW it was releases as a new (CLASS). And that was released as a new feature??? lol
Im sorry, but im not impressed by the least
No one lost their characters. No characters were deleted. When you loged into the game after the NGE you were prompted to pick a new calss withint the new character class system. If you have not been loging into the game since NGE, you will have to do that selection next time you log in.
Without a shadow of a doubt, NGE should not have happened the way it did, and may of us experienced grief for the class and class combination that we lost.
But the whole thread here was aimed at talking about what the game is now, not what it was. We can all miss the past. But what is gone is gone. If you can leave the bad things in the past behind and look at the game at its current state It us a very good game in 2009.
You have to take it for what it is and play it, or play the other games that are around. In my opinion most other games do not offer the broad range of options and freedom that Star Wars Galaxies still has even though it is certainly not perfect and some of the features of the past are missed. Still Entertainers, the crafting system, player cities, all the fluff items from loot cards, veteran rewards etc. to decorate your house makes it a unique game.
SOE has done many blunders. No doubt about it. I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn. As all companies they will still continue to do mistakes and they will continue to do right things. And so does all MMORPG companies out there.
When playing an MMORPG you are basically in a eternal beta. SWG was a mess after NGE. They basically reprogrammed the whole game. So it took years for them to "beta" test NGE with us players. Now that is not a good thing. But non the less. That painfull period resulted in something that is a very good game today and that is what I focus on. What is today. Leave the past. Looking back too much leaves you walking backwards into the future.
I see where you are coming from mate. Im not trying to flame you or anything.
It's GREAT that you love the game.But you can't forget what SOE did and that is where you have the problem. I hope all the best to all the new SWG players but please do not compare it to the old PRE-CU game please. If you did play that one, you know what i am talking about right?
I see where you are coming from mate. Im not trying to flame you or anything. It's GREAT that you love the game.But you can't forget what SOE did and that is where you have the problem. I hope all the best to all the new SWG players but please do not compare it to the old PRE-CU game please. If you did play that one, you know what i am talking about right? Be honest. You can't really compare can you?
Hmm.. honest answer. Yes I think it can. Because there were many downsides of SWG back in the days too. I felt that basically everyone grinded to be a jedi back then. That horrible grind is gone.
I was very captured in the mindset of a disgrunted Vet, but as the game in its current state grew on me I can honestly say that if they reverted the game there are lots of options that are in the game now that I would miss. I mean, one of my favourite classes, the entertainer is nothing but improved. And its improved big time. Would I love more dances thought ?.. yes.
And most Sandbox elements that I enjoyed are still there. So that is why I am happy. If they had only made an expansion pack that would be awesome.
But obviously the whole NGE idea and how it was put to life was a disaster back then and something that the game suffers from today, not as a game, but with the broken reputation that keeps people unwilling to try it again. I could be really bitter too. NGE took away 3 years of SWG playing time for me and almost all my friends. But its starting to feel good again now as many friends are back and I found a lot of new.
Obviously all old games looses a bit of its sparkle and just that fresh feeling of being new and I am a lot more seasoned MMO player today than i was back in 2005. But seeing the game again gives me a good feeling, and SWG has this freedom and sandbox system that really never gets old the way other games does.
Now.. this is just my opinion. But since you asked I had to answer.
To the O.P., the reason I posted a bunch of your quotes, is that all of them were inaccurate. Everything you said about SWG in those quotes (because of language or for whatever reason) was simply wrong.
Here are two more quotes, that you posted more recently, that are simply untrue:
"In swg. TCG items does not affect gameplay in any other way than that someone wants to buy those items."
and
"Items you get are just fluff and not game breaking in any ways."
It's well known that some of the TCG items enhance combat abilities (i.e. buffs). That, by definition, is not "fluff." A fluff item would be a new costume part in a game like City of Heroes. They are just for show. Fluff would be a picnic basket in a game like WoW. They do not affect gameplay. Also, the TCG items offer vehicles that in some cases have superior abilities. This has been well-documented in numerous posts, and verified by current players.
Furthermore, SWG has an ingame economy with crafters. Other games, like City of Heroes, do not have players who make vehicles, structures, space-ships etc.. To add a costume part in CoH does not take business away from players. To sell vehicles, structures, space-ships etc. in a game like SWG, however, takes business away from players who are paying a subscription fee to sell their virtual goods to other players.
What I'm trying to highlight is that the things you say to try to promote your game of choice simply seem untrue, or incorrect. I'd like to read about what's new in SWG, but I prefer it when the information provided is accurate.
"And most Sandbox elements that I enjoyed are still there."
Simply put, most of the sandbox elements that I enjoyed are not still there. More than anything, I enjoyed the skill system and the ability to mix and match numerous professions on one character. The choices were incredible, and without the level system and static classes, the game was much more immersive.
I also liked how all of the various professions 30+ interacted with one another to form a virtual world. An online RMT store would have been unheard of in the original game as it would have been completely immersion-breaking. It would also interfere with the way players interacted with one another in the ingame economy.
Now, you have a level system, you must select a class from only 9 options, and immersion as well as the economy are impinged upon by Sony's new RMT plus subscription business model. Also, the linear quests that were introduced instead of the sandbox system are, imo, incredibly boring and repetitive (e.g. Legacy Quest).
I found it much more enjoyable building a community with people in the StarWars universe, playing in the cantina, mastering Teras Kasi, and unravelling the mysteries of the force, all at the same time with hundreds of thousands of other players across the globe.
Originally posted by blueshadow SOE has done many blunders. No doubt about it. I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn. As all companies they will still continue to do mistakes and they will continue to do right things. And so does all MMORPG companies out there.
When playing an MMORPG you are basically in a eternal beta. SWG was a mess after NGE. They basically reprogrammed the whole game. So it took years for them to "beta" test NGE with us players. Now that is not a good thing. But non the less. That painfull period resulted in something that is a very good game today and that is what I focus on. What is today. Leave the past. Looking back too much leaves you walking backwards into the future.
Soes mistakes are not mistakes in the same way other companies make mistakes. Another company might make a mistake by nerfing a skill to much or crashing servers or patch day. Those are mistakes. Comparing soes actions to other companies is misleading at best.
Soe doesn't make "mistakes", because they fully know the effects of thier "mistakes" before they even implement them. It is not a mistake when soe admits that they know players will not like the changes and they know players will quit over the changes. The only mistakes soe might make in these cases is not generating as much revenue as they predicted. The negative effect they intentionally inflict on their players is not a mistake. It is a calculated risk that they know in advance.
I have already shown you several examples of soe displaying this attitude in several of their games. You should really stop misleading people in your quest to do whatever it is you are doing with swg.
As for the game being in beta, 4 years is a long time to expect people to pay for a beta test. I'm pretty certain the 4 years worth of effort would be devoured in a few short months leaving you in a position of starving for game updates for the next 4 years that are only going to get smaller and further apart as the dev team continues to lose experienced members.
"I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn."
Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn. What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE? Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other. We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress. We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released.
Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2. SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games. Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay. Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other?
Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers. Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program. Transfers are not server mergers. Now, let's take this a step further. At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from. Those servers should of course still be open then right? Wrong. Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist.
People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place. People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed. They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server.
Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments. SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right? Wrong. When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased. No conversion, at all.
How about changing the business model of a live game? SOE wouldn't do that would they? Yes, they would. SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game. Was there a backlash to this change? Of course there was. In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT.
Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG. The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers. The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them. One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned.
So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other? Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games? Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release? From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.
In response to this comment from the O.P.: "I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn." Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn. What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE? Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other. We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress. We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released. Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2. SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games. Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay. Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other? Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers. Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program. Transfers are not server mergers. Now, let's take this a step further. At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from. Those servers should of course still be open then right? Wrong. Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist. People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place. People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed. They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server. Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments. SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right? Wrong. When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased. No conversion, at all. How about changing the business model of a live game? SOE wouldn't do that would they? Yes, they would. SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game. Was there a backlash to this change? Of course there was. In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT. Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG. The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers. The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them. One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other? Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games? Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release? From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
I have read all posts before mine and I agree with alot and disagree with alot Either 2 things should happen to make THIS customer happy revert the game to pre-CU or KILL the dang game. SWG just die dangit DIE!!!
SWG today is much better than the initial NGE version. I do however still miss the old, in many ways i wish they could combine the two. I really wish the skill based system was still in place. Ive tried a lot of the games out there but i still find myself going back to SWG. I do love the freedom and house system, but i wish they would do more to add to the GCW!
In response to this comment from the O.P.: "I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn." Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn. What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE? Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other. We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress. We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released. Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2. SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games. Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay. Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other? Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers. Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program. Transfers are not server mergers. Now, let's take this a step further. At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from. Those servers should of course still be open then right? Wrong. Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist. People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place. People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed. They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server. Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments. SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right? Wrong. When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased. No conversion, at all. How about changing the business model of a live game? SOE wouldn't do that would they? Yes, they would. SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game. Was there a backlash to this change? Of course there was. In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT. Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG. The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers. The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them. One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other? Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games? Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release? From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).
So the best you can do to refute Arc's post, Blue, is to make a reference to the server merges thread, along with a snarky comment about him editing a post?
You've got nothing regarding the other issues he brought up in that post? No rebuttals? No counter-arguments to use in this debate? Just the snarky comment about server merges?
You're just going to ignore the issues he brought up and hope they go away, hoping no one will call you on it? I don't always agree with Arc (usually regarding CoX), but he brings up very compelling and valid points here. Yet you're just going to sweep them under the rug and not address them -- like they never happened.
In response to this comment from the O.P.: "I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn." Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn. What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE? Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other. We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress. We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released. Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2. SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games. Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay. Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other? Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers. Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program. Transfers are not server mergers. Now, let's take this a step further. At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from. Those servers should of course still be open then right? Wrong. Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist. People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place. People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed. They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server. Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments. SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right? Wrong. When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased. No conversion, at all. How about changing the business model of a live game? SOE wouldn't do that would they? Yes, they would. SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game. Was there a backlash to this change? Of course there was. In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT. Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG. The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers. The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them. One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other? Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games? Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release? From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).
So the best you can do to refute Arc's post, Blue, is to make a reference to the server merges thread, along with a snarky comment about him editing a post?
You've got nothing regarding the other issues he brought up in that post? No rebuttals? No counter-arguments to use in this debate? Just the snarky comment about server merges?
You're just going to ignore the issues he brought up and hope they go away, hoping no one will call you on it? I don't always agree with Arc (usually regarding CoX), but he brings up very compelling and valid points here. Yet you're just going to sweep them under the rug and not address them -- like they never happened.
Lame.
Arc +1 (at least)
Heh, thanks Rider. CoH is okay ^_^. Lots of good stuff going on there still imo. I just didn't like they way they did the PvP revamp. Just so happens I had spent my last 6 months building some PvP toons that were wrecked by the changes lol. Also, I think the PvP community had some good ideas that were overlooked. Really that's about it.
Great PVE in the game imo, lots of cool zones, quests, taskforces etc., but I digress. Anyways, I did try to mention a number of points here, including the way server transfers etc. were handled. Now I suppose I'm going to have to go back and read the post that Blue has quoted :P.
In response to this comment from the O.P.: "I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn." Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn. What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE? Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other. We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress. We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released. Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2. SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games. Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay. Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other? Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers. Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program. Transfers are not server mergers. Now, let's take this a step further. At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from. Those servers should of course still be open then right? Wrong. Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist. People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place. People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed. They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server. Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments. SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right? Wrong. When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased. No conversion, at all. How about changing the business model of a live game? SOE wouldn't do that would they? Yes, they would. SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game. Was there a backlash to this change? Of course there was. In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT. Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG. The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers. The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them. One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other? Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games? Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release? From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).
Yes I did start a discussion on the charge to move characters off of a closed server. I said in that thread that I think some players might be put off returning because of this fee.
I also still think that people have received mixed messages about mergers, transfers and server closures. Mixed messages have been a real problem for SOE I think. That's the point I'm trying to make in this thread, and this is simply one recent example imo. I'm not sure how much they've learned from past mistakes in this regard.
As for editing my post, some people misinterpreted me when I asked a simple question. I took some responsibility for not being clear and attempted to use more helpful language. Honestly, I think it's a good idea to go back and edit something if people seem to get the wrong message from it. If people aren't hearing what I'm trying to say, sometimes I need to look at saying it differently. They may need to check their assumptions too of course, but that's in their ballpark, not mine.
Also Blue, I think SOE has a chance to show how much they've learned in the GCW update. Will SOE do what they said they would? Will things actually work when released? Will they introduce some new change in the near future that will wreck whatever good things the GCW update has introduced?
Time will tell. I hope for the sake of current players that SOE will indeed learn from their mistakes and at least get this right. For many of us it will be too little too late, but current players I'm sure will find it refreshing to get what they were promised in functional condition and not have the rug pulled out from under them, again.
Tbh, I wish SOE would follow this pattern for as long as the game lasts: Do what they say (after listening to what players want), release things in working condition, and not pull the rug out from under people with unexpected or unwanted revamps.
This thread is probably long enough by now :P. We are filling up MMORPGS database server with something that is a near pointless debate. (there are edit buttons ArC :P. 3 posts in a row is just making this thread too long).
I mean.. We will never agree about SWG. Some of us like it some don't. And we can debate cons and pros about it almost forever.
The fact for me is that I found what I am looking for in that game. And thats all that matters for me. Pros and Cons towards games are subjective anyways.
What I found in SWG is that it still has a lot of features that other games do not have. That is what is important for me. I know what SWG was. I know what it has become. And I can see where it is going.
Until there comes another game that can replace SWG I will enjoy being a entertainer and crafter living in my houses in a game that is still very unique.
Its easy for everyone to dig up lots of points and SOE is always a target. I mean no matter what they do, someone will manage to make a long speech about how horrible they are.
I have found it impossible to debate on these forums unless you enjoy debating. That is the only thing that comes out of it. The debate itself, and at some point.. it feels pointless. Ironic is it not? :P (and sometimes I get a strange feeling that some are just trying to increase their posts counter).
But this is the veterans refugee forum and I don't blame any veteran refuge about what they feel towards the game. I just realise I am not a Veteran refuge any longer as I am back into the game. So my mindset have changed. And I am happy that it has.
I respect those that don't like SWG. There are lots of games out there so they should find something. Thought, I have a feeling that there are individuals on these forums that don't play or enjoy any games. They just wait for that holy grail of an MMORPG that will be just the way they want it. And that is utopia. Its something that is not going to be.
These are just games. If you have fun when logging in, it does not matter about politics or all that SOE this and SOE that stuff etc. I mean.
Nothing in life is perfect. Life itself is not perfect. SWG is not perfect.. SOE is not perfect. Its an imperfect world, we are imperfect as human beings so how could SWG be perfect. Far from it.
Again. i just enjoy SWG because of all the unique stuff that is still there. I play it for what it is. Not for what it was or what is not there.
And about CGW. I could not care less. Because I do not enjoy combat. My characters are not able to kill a small womp rat. That is what I find truly unique about SWG. You can have tons of fun without even bothering about combat. Thats something that still stands strong and unique in SWG.
And I don't feel betrayed by SOE. I have been betrayed in RL and I can tell you that what a game company does to their pixels is nothing compared to that. But again, just me.
What I can say is that I have fun in SWG so has others. And for us. We are happy that the game is still around.
And its not about who is right or who is wroing. If SOE pulled the plug tomorrow someone would point at me and say we were right. That does not matter to me. Because as I said, its not about right or wrong. As long as I can log into the game and have the fun and entertainment that I get from it. The purpouse of the game is fulfilled. Just like when I see a movie. The movie does not have to be the most epic and unforgettable movie made.
And there will be a day when SOE pulls the plug. Nothing last forever. No game will. No matter how much time you invest in that "perfect" mmo of yours. They will pull the plug one day. So the best thing you can do is enjoy the time you waste in any MMORPG while its there. OR.. is time you enjoy wasting wasted ?
So goodbye to this thread. I will not post any more comments in it. I guess I will see some of you around in other threads
I think that responding to different posts in a thread is considered acceptable behaviour. I responded to you and also to Harleyrider. I don't think that's an example of wasting MMORPG database space or attempting to up a post count lol.
I also don't think people need to feel badly about enjoying discussion forums. If discussing MMOs wasn't enjoyable for me, I wouldn't do it. Fact of the matter is, I've been talking about games in one form or another for over 30 years. As of now, I'm beta testing two, and just signed up for a third.
I'm glad you can say that you respect people who don't like the game at this point. That's a positive shift in perspective I think. Earlier on, I think we were referred to as people blinded by hate and stuck in the past. Thanks for letting go of those assumptions.
As for the GCW update. It may not concern you personally in light of your playing style, but I think it will be an indication of whether or not SOE has learned to do things differently. If they develop a pattern of following through on commitments, making sure new content is functional, and respecting player accomplishments, I think that I and a lot of other gamers would be pretty happy.
If you don't want to continue the discussion here, that's okay. Thanks for initiating it, and happy gaming ^_^.
I think that responding to different posts in a thread is considered acceptable behaviour. I responded to you and also to Harleyrider. I don't think that's an example of wasting MMORPG database space or attempting to up a post count lol. I also don't think people need to feel badly about enjoying discussion forums. If discussing MMOs wasn't enjoyable for me, I wouldn't do it. Fact of the matter is, I've been talking about games in one form or another for over 30 years. As of now, I'm beta testing two, and just signed up for a third. I'm glad you can say that you respect people who don't like the game at this point. That's a positive shift in perspective I think. Earlier on, I think we were referred to as people blinded by hate and stuck in the past. Thanks for letting go of those assumptions. As for the GCW update. It may not concern you personally in light of your playing style, but I think it will be an indication of whether or not SOE has learned to do things differently. If they develop a pattern of following through on commitments, making sure new content is functional, and respecting player accomplishments, I think that I and a lot of other gamers would be pretty happy. If you don't want to continue the discussion here, that's okay. Thanks for initiating it, and happy gaming ^_^.
I guess you are right.
We all enjoy discussions, more than most likely that is why we are here in the first place.
And yes, I do respect those that don't like SWG as I respect all those that don't like my favourite pizza too. I mean. We are all different and thank all that is good for that.
SOE has done some horrible mistake and they are paying a pretty high price in terms of customer loyality.
bah.. you got me started.
I am not a fan of SOE. Something struck me about the way that they communicate. SOE vs Blizzard.
I am sure they both have the same goals: to make money. But whenever a Blizzard representative talks, they always gets it to sound like they are there for players. Players first then everything else. Even players before Lore. SOE they have another way of speaking. Its more in the terms of. We will do this. Lots will not like but they will see that its not that bad etc. They don't give that "illusion" of we are there only for you as player. More like you are here for us kind of thing. They probably would need some coaching in how to communicate :P
I still like SWG though And I wish that SOE will understand that even though proclaimed dead by someone. SWG is a pearl of a game. A one of a kind. So please put more resources into it and give us a expansion! (*points at SOE, can just hope that some of them reads this forum)
The only thing that I think are a little negative (and then I do not count in whats not there or what could have been), but no way near game breaking as someone has pointed out is some of the items given by the trading cards. The business is sill extremely good for me as crafter at Starsider. (No way near a dead server as sometimes suggested. Actually the oposite. People complains that its too full and have to be closed due to problems by being overpopulated).
There are some pretty neat buildings given by trading cards. And I think that they should have given a lot more to architects. That would also have made the face of player cities a little updated and to add flavour to their loyal customers. I mean that its not there is not gamebreaking (as suggested). its not even near 1 / 10 as horrible as someone have suggested, but it would have been rewarding for the crafters that have been there faitfully for 5 years.
Fact is. Foundation is still there. Its good. Its not what it could have been. But its good. And one expansion wrecked havoc for many. One new and good expansion pack could really bring back some of the lost glory to a game that still shines as different and good.
Originally posted by blueshadow These are just games. If you have fun when logging in, it does not matter about politics or all that SOE this and SOE that stuff etc. I mean. Nothing in life is perfect. Life itself is not perfect. SWG is not perfect.. SOE is not perfect. Its an imperfect world, we are imperfect as human beings so how could SWG be perfect. Far from it.
A companies policies do matter though. I had fun playing soe games. That is until their policies hit me which is always the case.
The combat revamp in EQ2 for example. The constant shift in design direction in swg. There are just so many examples.
With soe it always goes ends up being something the company does that ends up chasing me away. Maybe if I only enjoyed one small aspect of the game like you, but I don't. Nor could I fall back to the endless justification repeated by so many like "sure soe isn't pefect, but who is", "swg has problems, but what game doesn't". I find those comments echoed so often from those who advocate a return to soe games or trying to make the games sound fixed or better than they actually are.
Lowering my standards or expectations will not change the game experience if I were to return, because the change that needs to occur cannot come from me. It must come from the company that constantly screws up the game and the relationship with their players.
I don't think people are going to go back to soe for more of the same.
I think that responding to different posts in a thread is considered acceptable behaviour. I responded to you and also to Harleyrider. I don't think that's an example of wasting MMORPG database space or attempting to up a post count lol. I also don't think people need to feel badly about enjoying discussion forums. If discussing MMOs wasn't enjoyable for me, I wouldn't do it. Fact of the matter is, I've been talking about games in one form or another for over 30 years. As of now, I'm beta testing two, and just signed up for a third. I'm glad you can say that you respect people who don't like the game at this point. That's a positive shift in perspective I think. Earlier on, I think we were referred to as people blinded by hate and stuck in the past. Thanks for letting go of those assumptions. As for the GCW update. It may not concern you personally in light of your playing style, but I think it will be an indication of whether or not SOE has learned to do things differently. If they develop a pattern of following through on commitments, making sure new content is functional, and respecting player accomplishments, I think that I and a lot of other gamers would be pretty happy. If you don't want to continue the discussion here, that's okay. Thanks for initiating it, and happy gaming ^_^.
I guess you are right.
We all enjoy discussions, more than most likely that is why we are here in the first place.
And yes, I do respect those that don't like SWG as I respect all those that don't like my favourite pizza too. I mean. We are all different and thank all that is good for that.
SOE has done some horrible mistake and they are paying a pretty high price in terms of customer loyality.
bah.. you got me started.
I am not a fan of SOE. Something struck me about the way that they communicate. SOE vs Blizzard.
I am sure they both have the same goals: to make money. But whenever a Blizzard representative talks, they always gets it to sound like they are there for players. Players first then everything else. Even players before Lore. SOE they have another way of speaking. Its more in the terms of. We will do this. Lots will not like but they will see that its not that bad etc. They don't give that "illusion" of we are there only for you as player. More like you are here for us kind of thing. They probably would need some coaching in how to communicate :P
I still like SWG though And I wish that SOE will understand that even though proclaimed dead by someone. SWG is a pearl of a game. A one of a kind. So please put more resources into it and give us a expansion! (*points at SOE, can just hope that some of them reads this forum)
The only thing that I think are a little negative (and then I do not count in whats not there or what could have been), but no way near game breaking as someone has pointed out is some of the items given by the trading cards. The business is sill extremely good for me as crafter at Starsider. (No way near a dead server as sometimes suggested. Actually the oposite. People complains that its too full and have to be closed due to problems by being overpopulated).
There are some pretty neat buildings given by trading cards. And I think that they should have given a lot more to architects. That would also have made the face of player cities a little updated and to add flavour to their loyal customers. I mean that its not there is not gamebreaking (as suggested). its not even near 1 / 10 as horrible as someone have suggested, but it would have been rewarding for the crafters that have been there faitfully for 5 years.
Fact is. Foundation is still there. Its good. Its not what it could have been. But its good. And one expansion wrecked havoc for many. One new and good expansion pack could really bring back some of the lost glory to a game that still shines as different and good.
.. Okay. Better leave now before Im stuck here.
Seems we're not really that far apart after all Blue ^_^. I'm glad you still find the pearls left in the game. Other friends of mine do as well. I'm aware of the problems, but also realize that people still enjoy it, and that it has its positive aspects. I think this is where we get a pitcher and have a drink to our favourite fantasy land lol. Happy gaming brother.
Originally posted by blueshadow These are just games. If you have fun when logging in, it does not matter about politics or all that SOE this and SOE that stuff etc. I mean. Nothing in life is perfect. Life itself is not perfect. SWG is not perfect.. SOE is not perfect. Its an imperfect world, we are imperfect as human beings so how could SWG be perfect. Far from it.
A companies policies do matter though. I had fun playing soe games. That is until their policies hit me which is always the case.
The combat revamp in EQ2 for example. The constant shift in design direction in swg. There are just so many examples.
With soe it always goes ends up being something the company does that ends up chasing me away. Maybe if I only enjoyed one small aspect of the game like you, but I don't. Nor could I fall back to the endless justification repeated by so many like "sure soe isn't pefect, but who is", "swg has problems, but what game doesn't". I find those comments echoed so often from those who advocate a return to soe games or trying to make the games sound fixed or better than they actually are.
Lowering my standards or expectations will not change the game experience if I were to return, because the change that needs to occur cannot come from me. It must come from the company that constantly screws up the game and the relationship with their players.
I don't think people are going to go back to soe for more of the same.
Funny thing is, there are a number of time's I've thought of going back to the game. I loved it, and loved the community even more. Though most of my friends quit, some still play, and I miss hanging with them. I consider going back and then hear about the GCW rank being wiped out, or the heroic instances being bugged, or the TCG loot items mucking with the game economy etc.. That suggests to me that if I go back, I'm in for more shennanigans from Smed and the gang. I just don't need the hassles in something that is supposed to be fun, and that I'm paying for.
If SOE ever gets their act together, I'd love to play some of their games, someday. I just need to see that their stuff is going to work properly, be enjoyable and that they're going to treat me with a basic level of respect. Meanwhile, I can wait. I'm a patient guy, most times lol.
Comments
You don't see a problem with it?
What if the loot cards had the 30 buffs from entertainers instead of you being able to use them when you play. Would that be game breaking for you? Would you still say that is isn't game breaking if your class was the one being deprived of that content?
Now ask the crafters who makes houses, vehicles, clothes and other loot card items how they feel about loots cards getting more attention and updates than they have in the last four years. Please don't answer with the latest patch that added a fraction of what the loot cards have.
I fully expected you to say "if it is game breaking items then it will be a problem". Which is the same exact things eq2 players said in defense of the loot cards over there. They defended the card game as harmless and look where that is. SWG is next, so please don't complain when it happens, because you had your chance.
Also, you said the loot cards don't affect the game, but they are being used as virtual currency for in game items/money. So yes it does affect the game. Why did you ignore that?
"certainly not game breaking"
LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on?
I SAY ROFL
We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:
Architect:
I was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name. It is called Trader (structure).
Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).
Trader Classes today are like this:
When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.
Politician:
Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints. And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun
Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.
Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master.. Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.
more info about those things here:
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Trader
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Master
We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:
Architect:
I was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name. It is called Trader (structure).
Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).
Trader Classes today are like this:
When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.
Politician:
Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints. And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun
Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.
Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master.. Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.
more info about those things here:
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Trader
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Master
Im sorry, thats not much of a comfort to people that lost their chars. The Creature Handler (for example) was DELETED and NOW it was releases as a new (CLASS). And that was released as a new feature??? lol
Im sorry, but im not impressed by the least
We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:
Architect:
I was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name. It is called Trader (structure).
Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).
Trader Classes today are like this:
When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.
Politician:
Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints. And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun
Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.
Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master.. Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.
more info about those things here:
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Trader
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Master
Im sorry, thats not much of a comfort to people that lost their chars. The Creature Handler (for example) was DELETED and NOW it was releases as a new (CLASS). And that was released as a new feature??? lol
Im sorry, but im not impressed by the least
No one lost their characters. No characters were deleted. When you loged into the game after the NGE you were prompted to pick a new calss withint the new character class system. If you have not been loging into the game since NGE, you will have to do that selection next time you log in.
Without a shadow of a doubt, NGE should not have happened the way it did, and may of us experienced grief for the class and class combination that we lost.
But the whole thread here was aimed at talking about what the game is now, not what it was. We can all miss the past. But what is gone is gone. If you can leave the bad things in the past behind and look at the game at its current state It us a very good game in 2009.
You have to take it for what it is and play it, or play the other games that are around. In my opinion most other games do not offer the broad range of options and freedom that Star Wars Galaxies still has even though it is certainly not perfect and some of the features of the past are missed. Still Entertainers, the crafting system, player cities, all the fluff items from loot cards, veteran rewards etc. to decorate your house makes it a unique game.
SOE has done many blunders. No doubt about it. I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn. As all companies they will still continue to do mistakes and they will continue to do right things. And so does all MMORPG companies out there.
When playing an MMORPG you are basically in a eternal beta. SWG was a mess after NGE. They basically reprogrammed the whole game. So it took years for them to "beta" test NGE with us players. Now that is not a good thing. But non the less. That painfull period resulted in something that is a very good game today and that is what I focus on. What is today. Leave the past. Looking back too much leaves you walking backwards into the future.
I see where you are coming from mate. Im not trying to flame you or anything.
It's GREAT that you love the game.But you can't forget what SOE did and that is where you have the problem. I hope all the best to all the new SWG players but please do not compare it to the old PRE-CU game please. If you did play that one, you know what i am talking about right?
Be honest. You can't really compare can you?
Hmm.. honest answer. Yes I think it can. Because there were many downsides of SWG back in the days too. I felt that basically everyone grinded to be a jedi back then. That horrible grind is gone.
I was very captured in the mindset of a disgrunted Vet, but as the game in its current state grew on me I can honestly say that if they reverted the game there are lots of options that are in the game now that I would miss. I mean, one of my favourite classes, the entertainer is nothing but improved. And its improved big time. Would I love more dances thought ?.. yes.
And most Sandbox elements that I enjoyed are still there. So that is why I am happy. If they had only made an expansion pack that would be awesome.
But obviously the whole NGE idea and how it was put to life was a disaster back then and something that the game suffers from today, not as a game, but with the broken reputation that keeps people unwilling to try it again. I could be really bitter too. NGE took away 3 years of SWG playing time for me and almost all my friends. But its starting to feel good again now as many friends are back and I found a lot of new.
Obviously all old games looses a bit of its sparkle and just that fresh feeling of being new and I am a lot more seasoned MMO player today than i was back in 2005. But seeing the game again gives me a good feeling, and SWG has this freedom and sandbox system that really never gets old the way other games does.
Now.. this is just my opinion. But since you asked I had to answer.
To the O.P., the reason I posted a bunch of your quotes, is that all of them were inaccurate. Everything you said about SWG in those quotes (because of language or for whatever reason) was simply wrong.
Here are two more quotes, that you posted more recently, that are simply untrue:
"In swg. TCG items does not affect gameplay in any other way than that someone wants to buy those items."
and
"Items you get are just fluff and not game breaking in any ways."
It's well known that some of the TCG items enhance combat abilities (i.e. buffs). That, by definition, is not "fluff." A fluff item would be a new costume part in a game like City of Heroes. They are just for show. Fluff would be a picnic basket in a game like WoW. They do not affect gameplay. Also, the TCG items offer vehicles that in some cases have superior abilities. This has been well-documented in numerous posts, and verified by current players.
Furthermore, SWG has an ingame economy with crafters. Other games, like City of Heroes, do not have players who make vehicles, structures, space-ships etc.. To add a costume part in CoH does not take business away from players. To sell vehicles, structures, space-ships etc. in a game like SWG, however, takes business away from players who are paying a subscription fee to sell their virtual goods to other players.
What I'm trying to highlight is that the things you say to try to promote your game of choice simply seem untrue, or incorrect. I'd like to read about what's new in SWG, but I prefer it when the information provided is accurate.
Responding to this comment from the O.P.:
"And most Sandbox elements that I enjoyed are still there."
Simply put, most of the sandbox elements that I enjoyed are not still there. More than anything, I enjoyed the skill system and the ability to mix and match numerous professions on one character. The choices were incredible, and without the level system and static classes, the game was much more immersive.
I also liked how all of the various professions 30+ interacted with one another to form a virtual world. An online RMT store would have been unheard of in the original game as it would have been completely immersion-breaking. It would also interfere with the way players interacted with one another in the ingame economy.
Now, you have a level system, you must select a class from only 9 options, and immersion as well as the economy are impinged upon by Sony's new RMT plus subscription business model. Also, the linear quests that were introduced instead of the sandbox system are, imo, incredibly boring and repetitive (e.g. Legacy Quest).
I found it much more enjoyable building a community with people in the StarWars universe, playing in the cantina, mastering Teras Kasi, and unravelling the mysteries of the force, all at the same time with hundreds of thousands of other players across the globe.
Soes mistakes are not mistakes in the same way other companies make mistakes. Another company might make a mistake by nerfing a skill to much or crashing servers or patch day. Those are mistakes. Comparing soes actions to other companies is misleading at best.
Soe doesn't make "mistakes", because they fully know the effects of thier "mistakes" before they even implement them. It is not a mistake when soe admits that they know players will not like the changes and they know players will quit over the changes. The only mistakes soe might make in these cases is not generating as much revenue as they predicted. The negative effect they intentionally inflict on their players is not a mistake. It is a calculated risk that they know in advance.
I have already shown you several examples of soe displaying this attitude in several of their games. You should really stop misleading people in your quest to do whatever it is you are doing with swg.
As for the game being in beta, 4 years is a long time to expect people to pay for a beta test. I'm pretty certain the 4 years worth of effort would be devoured in a few short months leaving you in a position of starving for game updates for the next 4 years that are only going to get smaller and further apart as the dev team continues to lose experienced members.
In response to this comment from the O.P.:
"I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn."
Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn. What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE? Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other. We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress. We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released.
Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2. SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games. Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay. Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other?
Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers. Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program. Transfers are not server mergers. Now, let's take this a step further. At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from. Those servers should of course still be open then right? Wrong. Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist.
People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place. People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed. They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server.
Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments. SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right? Wrong. When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased. No conversion, at all.
How about changing the business model of a live game? SOE wouldn't do that would they? Yes, they would. SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game. Was there a backlash to this change? Of course there was. In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT.
Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG. The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers. The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them. One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned.
So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other? Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games? Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release? From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html
(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).
I have read all posts before mine and I agree with alot and disagree with alot Either 2 things should happen to make THIS customer happy revert the game to pre-CU or KILL the dang game. SWG just die dangit DIE!!!
SWG today is much better than the initial NGE version. I do however still miss the old, in many ways i wish they could combine the two. I really wish the skill based system was still in place. Ive tried a lot of the games out there but i still find myself going back to SWG. I do love the freedom and house system, but i wish they would do more to add to the GCW!
SWG is probably the worst current running mmo on the market in terms of quality and gameplay.
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html
(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).
So the best you can do to refute Arc's post, Blue, is to make a reference to the server merges thread, along with a snarky comment about him editing a post?
You've got nothing regarding the other issues he brought up in that post? No rebuttals? No counter-arguments to use in this debate? Just the snarky comment about server merges?
You're just going to ignore the issues he brought up and hope they go away, hoping no one will call you on it? I don't always agree with Arc (usually regarding CoX), but he brings up very compelling and valid points here. Yet you're just going to sweep them under the rug and not address them -- like they never happened.
Lame.
Arc +1 (at least)
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html
(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).
So the best you can do to refute Arc's post, Blue, is to make a reference to the server merges thread, along with a snarky comment about him editing a post?
You've got nothing regarding the other issues he brought up in that post? No rebuttals? No counter-arguments to use in this debate? Just the snarky comment about server merges?
You're just going to ignore the issues he brought up and hope they go away, hoping no one will call you on it? I don't always agree with Arc (usually regarding CoX), but he brings up very compelling and valid points here. Yet you're just going to sweep them under the rug and not address them -- like they never happened.
Lame.
Arc +1 (at least)
Heh, thanks Rider. CoH is okay ^_^. Lots of good stuff going on there still imo. I just didn't like they way they did the PvP revamp. Just so happens I had spent my last 6 months building some PvP toons that were wrecked by the changes lol. Also, I think the PvP community had some good ideas that were overlooked. Really that's about it.
Great PVE in the game imo, lots of cool zones, quests, taskforces etc., but I digress. Anyways, I did try to mention a number of points here, including the way server transfers etc. were handled. Now I suppose I'm going to have to go back and read the post that Blue has quoted :P.
This post (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html
(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).
Yes I did start a discussion on the charge to move characters off of a closed server. I said in that thread that I think some players might be put off returning because of this fee.
I also still think that people have received mixed messages about mergers, transfers and server closures. Mixed messages have been a real problem for SOE I think. That's the point I'm trying to make in this thread, and this is simply one recent example imo. I'm not sure how much they've learned from past mistakes in this regard.
As for editing my post, some people misinterpreted me when I asked a simple question. I took some responsibility for not being clear and attempted to use more helpful language. Honestly, I think it's a good idea to go back and edit something if people seem to get the wrong message from it. If people aren't hearing what I'm trying to say, sometimes I need to look at saying it differently. They may need to check their assumptions too of course, but that's in their ballpark, not mine.
Also Blue, I think SOE has a chance to show how much they've learned in the GCW update. Will SOE do what they said they would? Will things actually work when released? Will they introduce some new change in the near future that will wreck whatever good things the GCW update has introduced?
Time will tell. I hope for the sake of current players that SOE will indeed learn from their mistakes and at least get this right. For many of us it will be too little too late, but current players I'm sure will find it refreshing to get what they were promised in functional condition and not have the rug pulled out from under them, again.
Tbh, I wish SOE would follow this pattern for as long as the game lasts: Do what they say (after listening to what players want), release things in working condition, and not pull the rug out from under people with unexpected or unwanted revamps.
This thread is probably long enough by now :P. We are filling up MMORPGS database server with something that is a near pointless debate. (there are edit buttons ArC :P. 3 posts in a row is just making this thread too long).
I mean.. We will never agree about SWG. Some of us like it some don't. And we can debate cons and pros about it almost forever.
The fact for me is that I found what I am looking for in that game. And thats all that matters for me. Pros and Cons towards games are subjective anyways.
What I found in SWG is that it still has a lot of features that other games do not have. That is what is important for me. I know what SWG was. I know what it has become. And I can see where it is going.
Until there comes another game that can replace SWG I will enjoy being a entertainer and crafter living in my houses in a game that is still very unique.
Its easy for everyone to dig up lots of points and SOE is always a target. I mean no matter what they do, someone will manage to make a long speech about how horrible they are.
I have found it impossible to debate on these forums unless you enjoy debating. That is the only thing that comes out of it. The debate itself, and at some point.. it feels pointless. Ironic is it not? :P (and sometimes I get a strange feeling that some are just trying to increase their posts counter).
But this is the veterans refugee forum and I don't blame any veteran refuge about what they feel towards the game. I just realise I am not a Veteran refuge any longer as I am back into the game. So my mindset have changed. And I am happy that it has.
I respect those that don't like SWG. There are lots of games out there so they should find something. Thought, I have a feeling that there are individuals on these forums that don't play or enjoy any games. They just wait for that holy grail of an MMORPG that will be just the way they want it. And that is utopia. Its something that is not going to be.
These are just games. If you have fun when logging in, it does not matter about politics or all that SOE this and SOE that stuff etc. I mean.
Nothing in life is perfect. Life itself is not perfect. SWG is not perfect.. SOE is not perfect. Its an imperfect world, we are imperfect as human beings so how could SWG be perfect. Far from it.
Again. i just enjoy SWG because of all the unique stuff that is still there. I play it for what it is. Not for what it was or what is not there.
And about CGW. I could not care less. Because I do not enjoy combat. My characters are not able to kill a small womp rat. That is what I find truly unique about SWG. You can have tons of fun without even bothering about combat. Thats something that still stands strong and unique in SWG.
And I don't feel betrayed by SOE. I have been betrayed in RL and I can tell you that what a game company does to their pixels is nothing compared to that. But again, just me.
What I can say is that I have fun in SWG so has others. And for us. We are happy that the game is still around.
And its not about who is right or who is wroing. If SOE pulled the plug tomorrow someone would point at me and say we were right. That does not matter to me. Because as I said, its not about right or wrong. As long as I can log into the game and have the fun and entertainment that I get from it. The purpouse of the game is fulfilled. Just like when I see a movie. The movie does not have to be the most epic and unforgettable movie made.
And there will be a day when SOE pulls the plug. Nothing last forever. No game will. No matter how much time you invest in that "perfect" mmo of yours. They will pull the plug one day. So the best thing you can do is enjoy the time you waste in any MMORPG while its there. OR.. is time you enjoy wasting wasted ?
So goodbye to this thread. I will not post any more comments in it. I guess I will see some of you around in other threads
I think that responding to different posts in a thread is considered acceptable behaviour. I responded to you and also to Harleyrider. I don't think that's an example of wasting MMORPG database space or attempting to up a post count lol.
I also don't think people need to feel badly about enjoying discussion forums. If discussing MMOs wasn't enjoyable for me, I wouldn't do it. Fact of the matter is, I've been talking about games in one form or another for over 30 years. As of now, I'm beta testing two, and just signed up for a third.
I'm glad you can say that you respect people who don't like the game at this point. That's a positive shift in perspective I think. Earlier on, I think we were referred to as people blinded by hate and stuck in the past. Thanks for letting go of those assumptions.
As for the GCW update. It may not concern you personally in light of your playing style, but I think it will be an indication of whether or not SOE has learned to do things differently. If they develop a pattern of following through on commitments, making sure new content is functional, and respecting player accomplishments, I think that I and a lot of other gamers would be pretty happy.
If you don't want to continue the discussion here, that's okay. Thanks for initiating it, and happy gaming ^_^.
I guess you are right.
We all enjoy discussions, more than most likely that is why we are here in the first place.
And yes, I do respect those that don't like SWG as I respect all those that don't like my favourite pizza too. I mean. We are all different and thank all that is good for that.
SOE has done some horrible mistake and they are paying a pretty high price in terms of customer loyality.
bah.. you got me started.
I am not a fan of SOE. Something struck me about the way that they communicate. SOE vs Blizzard.
I am sure they both have the same goals: to make money. But whenever a Blizzard representative talks, they always gets it to sound like they are there for players. Players first then everything else. Even players before Lore. SOE they have another way of speaking. Its more in the terms of. We will do this. Lots will not like but they will see that its not that bad etc. They don't give that "illusion" of we are there only for you as player. More like you are here for us kind of thing. They probably would need some coaching in how to communicate :P
I still like SWG though
And I wish that SOE will understand that even though proclaimed dead by someone. SWG is a pearl of a game. A one of a kind. So please put more resources into it and give us a expansion! (*points at SOE, can just hope that some of them reads this forum)
The only thing that I think are a little negative (and then I do not count in whats not there or what could have been), but no way near game breaking as someone has pointed out is some of the items given by the trading cards. The business is sill extremely good for me as crafter at Starsider. (No way near a dead server as sometimes suggested. Actually the oposite. People complains that its too full and have to be closed due to problems by being overpopulated).
There are some pretty neat buildings given by trading cards. And I think that they should have given a lot more to architects. That would also have made the face of player cities a little updated and to add flavour to their loyal customers. I mean that its not there is not gamebreaking (as suggested). its not even near 1 / 10 as horrible as someone have suggested, but it would have been rewarding for the crafters that have been there faitfully for 5 years.
Fact is. Foundation is still there. Its good. Its not what it could have been. But its good. And one expansion wrecked havoc for many. One new and good expansion pack could really bring back some of the lost glory to a game that still shines as different and good.
.. Okay. Better leave now before Im stuck here.
A companies policies do matter though. I had fun playing soe games. That is until their policies hit me which is always the case.
The combat revamp in EQ2 for example. The constant shift in design direction in swg. There are just so many examples.
With soe it always goes ends up being something the company does that ends up chasing me away. Maybe if I only enjoyed one small aspect of the game like you, but I don't. Nor could I fall back to the endless justification repeated by so many like "sure soe isn't pefect, but who is", "swg has problems, but what game doesn't". I find those comments echoed so often from those who advocate a return to soe games or trying to make the games sound fixed or better than they actually are.
Lowering my standards or expectations will not change the game experience if I were to return, because the change that needs to occur cannot come from me. It must come from the company that constantly screws up the game and the relationship with their players.
I don't think people are going to go back to soe for more of the same.
I guess you are right.
We all enjoy discussions, more than most likely that is why we are here in the first place.
And yes, I do respect those that don't like SWG as I respect all those that don't like my favourite pizza too. I mean. We are all different and thank all that is good for that.
SOE has done some horrible mistake and they are paying a pretty high price in terms of customer loyality.
bah.. you got me started.
I am not a fan of SOE. Something struck me about the way that they communicate. SOE vs Blizzard.
I am sure they both have the same goals: to make money. But whenever a Blizzard representative talks, they always gets it to sound like they are there for players. Players first then everything else. Even players before Lore. SOE they have another way of speaking. Its more in the terms of. We will do this. Lots will not like but they will see that its not that bad etc. They don't give that "illusion" of we are there only for you as player. More like you are here for us kind of thing. They probably would need some coaching in how to communicate :P
I still like SWG though
And I wish that SOE will understand that even though proclaimed dead by someone. SWG is a pearl of a game. A one of a kind. So please put more resources into it and give us a expansion! (*points at SOE, can just hope that some of them reads this forum)
The only thing that I think are a little negative (and then I do not count in whats not there or what could have been), but no way near game breaking as someone has pointed out is some of the items given by the trading cards. The business is sill extremely good for me as crafter at Starsider. (No way near a dead server as sometimes suggested. Actually the oposite. People complains that its too full and have to be closed due to problems by being overpopulated).
There are some pretty neat buildings given by trading cards. And I think that they should have given a lot more to architects. That would also have made the face of player cities a little updated and to add flavour to their loyal customers. I mean that its not there is not gamebreaking (as suggested). its not even near 1 / 10 as horrible as someone have suggested, but it would have been rewarding for the crafters that have been there faitfully for 5 years.
Fact is. Foundation is still there. Its good. Its not what it could have been. But its good. And one expansion wrecked havoc for many. One new and good expansion pack could really bring back some of the lost glory to a game that still shines as different and good.
.. Okay. Better leave now before Im stuck here.
Seems we're not really that far apart after all Blue ^_^. I'm glad you still find the pearls left in the game. Other friends of mine do as well. I'm aware of the problems, but also realize that people still enjoy it, and that it has its positive aspects. I think this is where we get a pitcher and have a drink to our favourite fantasy land lol. Happy gaming brother.
A companies policies do matter though. I had fun playing soe games. That is until their policies hit me which is always the case.
The combat revamp in EQ2 for example. The constant shift in design direction in swg. There are just so many examples.
With soe it always goes ends up being something the company does that ends up chasing me away. Maybe if I only enjoyed one small aspect of the game like you, but I don't. Nor could I fall back to the endless justification repeated by so many like "sure soe isn't pefect, but who is", "swg has problems, but what game doesn't". I find those comments echoed so often from those who advocate a return to soe games or trying to make the games sound fixed or better than they actually are.
Lowering my standards or expectations will not change the game experience if I were to return, because the change that needs to occur cannot come from me. It must come from the company that constantly screws up the game and the relationship with their players.
I don't think people are going to go back to soe for more of the same.
Funny thing is, there are a number of time's I've thought of going back to the game. I loved it, and loved the community even more. Though most of my friends quit, some still play, and I miss hanging with them. I consider going back and then hear about the GCW rank being wiped out, or the heroic instances being bugged, or the TCG loot items mucking with the game economy etc.. That suggests to me that if I go back, I'm in for more shennanigans from Smed and the gang. I just don't need the hassles in something that is supposed to be fun, and that I'm paying for.
If SOE ever gets their act together, I'd love to play some of their games, someday. I just need to see that their stuff is going to work properly, be enjoyable and that they're going to treat me with a basic level of respect. Meanwhile, I can wait. I'm a patient guy, most times lol.