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General: Fuller: A Triumphant Return
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com's Garrett Fuller uses his column this week to talk about MMO burn-out and what companies could be doing to welcome players back after a break.
Taking a break from MMOs is often something I wonder about. As a player, I go through phases every few months. Sometimes I play as much as I can. Sometimes I do not go near my computer. Burnout is something every MMO player experiences at one time or another, yet I don't think developers account for this in their game designs. Every developer says, you should take a break from playing MMOs, but in truth they really want you to play. So my column this week is about burnout and down time. When do you get burned out, and what do you do when it happens?
I have stated many times that right now I am playing World of Warcraft. Last night, I ran a successful Trial of the Crusader ten-man raid with my guild. We did well enough and got some good loot out of the deal. Tuesday is always a big raid night. We'll hit Ulduar on Thursday and continue to try and gear up our new raiders. The event was fun and exciting. Yet, tonight I have no desire to log into the game and do anything. Is that because my goal for the week had been accomplished?
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
I like this idea of somehow welcoming back returners more "heroic".
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Turbine does this all the time at least once a month we have welcome back week eds hoping folks will resubscrbe. SOE does it with their games as well. If your gone for 3 months they will temp you with a free 30 days free.
I don't know about the rest of the games out there I am sure they offer something of the same.
All I can say it is a shame that a game you love gets stale enough that you have to take a break.
Oustanding article
I've left WoW 4x times over the course of 5 years, and after my longest (6 months) of inactivity I resubbed
Burnout (especially for those seeking end game) is a nasty envitability, really the only thing that keeps people to play has nothing to do with the game at a point - it is solely the players. The social event raiding can be, giggling on vent, randomly clashing all kinds of people across the country or even the world over vent can be an a amazing experience. Being said though, the game is now plagued with too many people but not enough people who care. The hardcore & casual are now shoved together wanting 'everyone' to experience everything...when truthfully, you should earn it (my opp). You can only take so many people who lack maturity to keep you going, as all your good friends burnout...1 by 1.
When I'm not playing WoW, I return to my cache of console RPGs, Action games, and shooters to bide my time till the urge returns (as it always does, if you truely love MMOs).
These types of plans are not what I am talking about.
I am talking about doing something for players who return IN THE GAME WORLD.
30 days free....who cares, I want my character to return to something cool happening in the game.
I left Wow before the first expansion. I had 4 level 60's and have no wish to go back. The raiding scene was just too much work, I play for fun and raiding was never fun for me.
This is a great article, and does a good job of showing how burnout affects us, and what entices us back. Personally, I don't need anything special to happen to my toons while I'm gone, but if there's an expansion that has some cool new content or classes, there's a good chance that if they sound interesting, I'll drop the $15 or so to try it out. Sure, there have been times when I was just bored and ended up playing for maybe a week, tops, before I let myself get distracted by something else, but most of the time I can get a good two or three weeks worth of fun out of a return, especially if I return because of something new happening in the game, and that's really all I expect from a MMOG that's been out for awhile.
While there's no doubt game companies could be more creative with the ways they make you feel connected to a game in a long-term sense, I don't believe that there's really all that much they can do once you burn out, or to prevent you from doing so. Playing several hours a day non-stop for months or years is not something most people can or want to do, and it's inevitable that they get tired of the game. Taking a break from MMOs should be seen as completely normal, not some sort of failure on the part of the game or the player.
This is especially true now that there are games like WOW that have been around for years. When I started playing WOW I was still a student, had plenty of free time, and was happy to sit down for hours at a time to clear a dungeon. Nowadays I have work, a girlfriend and a bunch of other commitments that mean I might get a couple of hours once a fortnight to farm some crafting materials. I'm just not interested in doing the things I used to do in a game, yet the fact that I've invested so much time in it previously means there aren't as many options for me once I log on to do new and interesting things-I can't take my level 68 druid back to Northshire to kill some wolves (well, I can, but...)
I do think the idea of adding "welcome back" or "time passed" events to a game is interesting, but it has to take into account the fact that players do change-burnout doesn't come from nowhere, it comes from players naturally changing while the game stays largely the same. There's not much you can do to draw someone back in to the game if they no longer want most of what the game is offering.
I too, am a WoW player. I've left WoW at least 3 times, the longest was about 9 months. For me, I'm a social person. Raiding for the first time, was fun. But it quickly became UNFUN as it turned a social experience into an elite experience. Suddenly, I found myself not dedicated enough to play with the guild my brother was in...that was back at 60. I resubbed when Burning crusade came out. I got to 70 several weeks after the hardcore gamers did. Once again, Not good enough to still raid with family. So i stopped playing again.
I resubbed for Wrath...when I hit 80, I immediately felt the drive to play leave me...but this time I stayed because my wife had started playing. I level a DK to 80 while she learned the game. But I soon got very bored with it...definately burnout. THINKING about playing makes me feel bored enough to feel sleepy.
I don't know WHAT WoW could do to make me interested again. I'm not even sure that the next xpac will make me interested. Its another 5 levels of the same world, same mechanic, same end game drive. It would have to be a different game with different mechanics.
If wow added a more socially driven (rather than end game raid) aspect, then I might be interested. In fact, I'd be happy to go "Mentor" even if I didn't get anything out of it. I used to do it all the time. I don't mean "rush" people through dungeons (I did do that but its not satisfying). I mean, teaching people how to get through a zone or such. Helping them understand their skills. I often found myself logging into alts just so i could be their level (i have an alt of every class spanning level 30-70). But if I could voluntarily lower my stats (temporarily) to be on par with the lvl 30 group hitting scarlet monestary, I'd do it!
Wow has a TON of content. But in order to do, say, Deadmines...I have to play a new character. I know they're planning on making a lvl 80 version or some such...which is cool. But this means I've got to be 80 before I can repeat (meaningfully) a lvl 20 dungeon. What about lvl 30 to 75?
Anyway, rather than getting a cool thing for coming back, how about meaningful ongoing achievements that keep me interested so I don't leave?
Have you ever played fable? Was it not cool to own a home and upgrade its contents....even tho the reward hardly justified the time and cost? it was STILL fun! Plus you could marry and have kids (all NPC)...and they were fully autonomous, meaning I don't need to check in all the time, but it adds another level of social + reasons to stay. There are lots of ways to do this. I could go on and on. NPC entourage, controlling a group rather than one player (maybe your own alts?) heh.
Anyway, anything that adds a dynamiclly altered environment created by the player = player interested. Player driven content = Win.
Currently not playing any MMOrpg --
Lvl 80 paladin WoW
I'm sure almost everybody can relate to MMO burn-out. I don't think developers can eliminate burn-out. It's inevitable, no matter how good a game is you eventually get tired of it. You take a break, and after a while the game feels fresh again, so you return.
One thing developers could do to account for burnout is to allow for some kind of limited access to the game even when not subscribed. Using WoW as an example, they could allow access to in-game mail and guild chat through a browser interface, so you can easily keep in touch with in-game friends. I made a lot of friends in WoW over the years who I have lost contact with due to burn-out. If I could have kept in touch with them and old guildies, maybe after a while I might have said "hey, let's re-sub and start up an arena team" or something like that. The way it is now, every time I burn-out and then return, I start all over again looking for a new guild, and sometimes even on a different server.
I like the idea of a some sort of quest chain for returning players that culmates in some sort of recoginition ceremony and reward for returning. MIght be a piece of gear from the new expansion, or some sort of recognizable title or token that could let people know you're just coming back and you might not be quite up to speed on all the recent changes to the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I thought of two different things to mention in this thread:
1) I've played WoW for over three years without a break and I'm a senior officer in a large guild as well as an end game raider. So far, I've managed to stave off burnout through practicing anonymity. When I feel the blahs coming on or responsibility gets too heavy to bear, I roll an alt on another server where no one knows me. There I have no titles or responsibilities and can enjoy being a total noob once more. There I can see the world of Azeroth through new eyes and be refreshed.
2) The single most epic, immersive, 'zomg I AM a hero' feeling I ever got in WoW was during the Wrathgate cutscene when Bolvar Fordragon turns to me during the parade and says "By the way, Jaedor, I've never forgotten what you did for us back there at the Keep." (referring to the now-defunct Onyxia quest chain). Up until that moment, completion of the chain was the only thing that had produced a similar feeling. That it played out in a private whisper at the beginning of the cutscene - only for the toons that actually completed that quest chain - was amazing to me. Still is.
That second example is exactly the type of content I am talking about.
I think there should be more of this - recognition of previous achievement and character progression over time.
I mean, good god, I uncovered that Neeru Fireblade is the Searing Blade's leader! Thrall was thrilled over my achievement as a low level Orc member of the Horde, but once you have finished that Ragefire Chasm chain... nothing. There is no further recognition of your contribution to that particularly glaring hole in Orgrimmar's defences, apart from a weapon most will replace within five levels.
Even a badge or trinket or something would be nice - something that has 'recognition' stamped all over it. I don't believe there is an achievement for that chain, either.
I say this about the RFC Neeru chain because it is one of those chain quests that really made me feel useful and hero-esque - having a bit of dialogue "You may speak frankly, Neeru..." as part of a quest was different, as he then goes and spills the beans, telling you absolutely everything about the Searing Blade and the Shadow Coucil... almost funny, you know? And it's not like Thrall would have been able to infiltrate the Searing Blade and talk to Neeru himself - the whole thing made sense and was interesting.
Anyway, I'm level 16 now, and have several new weapons that are better than that axe that is no longer in my inventory.
....yup.
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
You all need to learn to spell.
I'm not sure I agree entirely. While it's an interesting proposal, consider that MMOs today are too ridden with poor attempts, or too many attempts, to make every last gamer in the world feel 'heroic'. I don't think the focus should be on player flattery, as it were.
I like being able to return casually. While a 'reconnect' feature might be in order, notifying any former friends that their chief crafter has returned from a sabbatical might prove to be a wonderful thing... providing gear or other rewards just short-fuses the whole time:reward ratio, and leads to faster burnout, based on your very own proposition that achieving goals leads to burnout.
I enjoy not being hassled, or feel like I'm being pressured by yet another money-making enterprise in my life. I have car payments, cell phone bills, rent and the like. It's like another creditor knocking at the door trying to sell something to me. This 'shortsightedness' in the MMO marketing scheme is refreshing in many ways. It's almost the mature thing to do- part ways and reconnect without hoopla.
Let me return to the game and embrace it on its terms. Don't give me handouts. Let the developers focus their energy on quality product, rather than interesting retention ploys. After all, I'm returning to the *game*, not the retention scheme. Let the quality of product speak of itself, and do the retaining.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
I agree with this isolated quote from Pojung in a very specific kind of way: I have no interest in being flattered or shmoozed or "sold" anything to justify that I play a game. If there are recognition items or scenes or <insert something here> then I'm all over having it be private and personal, just like my gameplay. I don't need Blizzard or any other company to come on like a used car salesman to keep me playing.
Overall, I think it comes down to individual playstyle, but everyone without exception likes to be appreciated. It's all in the details, and often in the small and innocuous things that genuineness is felt.
I like you have been burnt out on WoW several times myself, and seriously doubt that I will be returning with the next expansion. I quit in April and still have no desire to return. End game raiding is too time consuming and it can be really hard when every guild you know of seems to be raiding when you have other things to do. I have to agree with you and say that I also would have liked WoW to become more social again as well. I think the idea of a Mentor feature added in the game would be great, and give people another option of doing something other then just raiding as well. However I would seriously be suprised if they ever incorporated anything like that, as it just seems the only reason to play WoW now is to get to endgame content. and that just really doesn't hold an interest for someone like me.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
There are games that give you bonuses to coming back and playing. EQII does it, WOW does it,Vanguard etc. This is the bouns or rest XP given to players who have not logged their toon in over some time. This XP is time related to the last logon for that character.
I wnet back to Vanguard and went through lvls 30-32 before running out of rest bonus.
CO and COx series have NPC Citizens that are constantly waving at you and saying stuff like "I hear So N so hero put the smack down on Lord Bad Guy". In CO they will actually cheer you on while you are beating up bad guys in the streets! Saying stuff like Let em have it! Or you really showed him!
I understand that one of the premises behind the SWTOR story line and choice driven content is not only to give you a light or dark side to strive for but, your choices in the earlier levels will affect the story line and protagonists you run across later in the story.
Whether you meant it or not, what I get from your blog is "Dev needs to give me a nice shiney new toy for gracing their game with my presense". Maybe a bit snottier than intended but, it gets the point across.
RPG's, while quest driven, were more about role playing in an environment. That has denegrated over the years into more of a grind up to the end game content. IMO, this quick to reward and dangling carrot style of developement is what is burning people out more than anything.
SWG pre NGU, did have issues with the PvP system it was promoting. There were few quests and mainly themepark areas that were out there. Without the questing and the PvP working very well it was still a successfull game. It was this way because the game did not confine you to the roles that it did not support well. There were more people interested in running around in the SWG universe and seeing the different sites and sounds from the movies they remembered ( and hanging out in what became damn near topless bars later on in the cantinas ).
The point I am trying to make is WOW did a wonderfull job of bringing the masses to a niche gaming world ( MMORPG ) however, in doing so it has set the bar for what is EXPECTED in MMORPG games to attract the type of subscription rates that were experienced by WoW.
This is also the downfall of what it has brought to the genre. People are really sick and bored of the grind to get to the rewards that games are now touting. They look back on the time spent in WoW to get the stuff they had and are like "It really was not that special, I do not want to go through giving up 2 years of life for a stat weapon any more."
Also, you who grew up on WoW are looking at it like those of us who went through UO and EQ now. It was your first experience and you are comparing everything to it. It was also something you enjoyed when younger and now that you are older you are wanting more from the experience.
Guess what? You are not going to get it. You need to come to the realization that your life has changed since those younger days and your needs have changed. You will not be able to put in the 48 hour sessions to get the Great-Ubah_sword-of-Bunny-SlayerZ any more. You are finding yourself more in need of personal contact with people and go out and experience the real world.
So, companies are trying to lure you back into their games. They are doing things similar to what you are saying you just do not see it because, well, it still does not have the same appeal as before. Burn out is burn out. You will have it on ANYTHING you spend most of your waking hours on. Just take some time to spend in the Real World. Mayhap play some of the really exciting new Single Player or FPS games out there. When you get the urge, there will be some new and shiney MMO out there that will be fun again, you just will not play it like you did that FIRST one you played in your younger days.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Well I have been playing WoW since like a month after its release. I began on an Aussie server as I began with the trial and that was the server I was put on. Living on the east coast -US made it hard to find groups, raid or enjoy any of the content. My husband is disabled so he could get up at 3 or 4am to raid and enjoy all that the game had to offer. I had to get up and go to work and when my time to play came I had nothing to do but quest until it required a group. My interest quickly began to fade. Then BC came out and I had alts of various levels but my main I took my time leveling because for me it was pointless. I was in the guild with my hubby and there was great peeps there but I didn't get to spend a lot of time socially either because of my play time difference. Finally I was to the point of just quitting and was playing other games that I could enjoy and do things more on my time frame.
We transferred to a US server which my husband was also getting burned out from the time he had to get up and was pretty much sleeping when the family was doing our thing. Our son also plays I might add. Once we made the transfer I was able to start raiding and have been having a blast. We don't raid every night but enough to make it fun and I have seen so much content now in Wrath and am going back through the old worlds for the achievements.
Still at the same time with things in real life and all I find that on nights there are no raids I many times don't care to do anything. I chill out. Do my dailies maybe I will work on one of my alts maybe just log out and watch TV or read a book. I look forward to the next expansion because it sounds as if there is going to be many changes in the world. I also want to get the old world dungeons done because I am not sure how the new content is going to affect them.
There is many reasons for burnout and many reasons for people getting bored with the game. I have to admit having a personal message and something really special after being away is a nice idea. Casual gamers might not care much about it but many would love that personal touch. That tells you we care about what you did and are glad to have you back.
I look forward to your next article on alts. I am sure you will see many replys on that.
Gikku
I agree with the OP. I think the addition of things like this would be a great way to make people feel better about things when they come back from a break.
As far as Turbine. I love LotRO, and I appreciate their welcome back weeks and such, BUT...
When I recently took a month long sabatical due to a family members health problems and I logged back on...
There were no letters in the mail from Elrond welcoming me back and wishing me happy adventures.
There were no visits from the Mayor of Bree bearing presents upon my return...
There WAS however a nice note from the housing vendor informing me that my house was locked and it was going to cost me so much to get into my house and to pay the fees... I HATE this! It makes you want to log back out immediately! That and the stupid mailbox systems these games have where mail bounces back or DISAPPEARS after a few days... I can't tell you how much stuff I lost in LotRO due to mail expiring while I was dealing with much more important REAL LIFE issues.
The OP is right on! They need to WELCOME you back and not PUNISH you for taking a break!
It's more of a short-term deal, but Fallen Earth has off-line crafting, which I think is a great idea.
Players get burned out because of grind. Fun doesn't get boring, grind does. MMOs have lots of different things to do (WoW certainly does), but if they aren't FUN, they are just different flavours of boring.
One of my favourite things in RPGs is to gain new abilities and try them out. The standard way to gain them is by leveling, but once you have an ability, you keep it forever.
I'd like to see temporary abilities which are gained through various methods, so you can play with them for a while, but then you have to go and earn them again. Perhaps even have a random ability granted each time.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That's the same as my experience with WOW.
I also had a couple of level 60 characters and quickly got bored with the raiding. I left before the first expansion and since then have felt no need at all to start playing again even though my friends continued to play. If the game isn't very fun I'd rather be social on just vent or through IM's and such. A MMO should be more than just a virtual chat room once you get to the end game.
The most fun I had was leveling up my character and questing in a small group. End game just can't compete with the journey to the end game. The end game in all MMOs lack that feeling of progress you have when leveling because you don't gain any new skills, talents and such, you're stuck with what you have and all you can do it collect better loot and taking down big bosses (which is only fun the first time). So at the end game you're basically left with about 1/3 of what the game was before you got to the "end".
Sorry if I went a little bit off-topic but it's somewhat related because if the end game is fun there really is no need for a break or at least a less chance of a burnout. And I agree, if I start playing again after a break and nothing has changed why even bother to play it again? You know it's the same and that you will soon get bored again.
Not sure what to do about it though. But when I played SWG I never really reached an end game because the crafting, housing economy and city building kept me busy for quite some time. I just quit because me and my friends started playing WOW when it was released about a year after SWG.
The problem with exclusive content for returning players is that it would make the loyal fans of a game upset. If there was some cool new axe that only returning players could get and I've been a loyal (paying) subscriber since launch, I'd be pissed with the developers. Hell I might unsubscribe for 3 months, just so I can come back to collect my Axe of Reestablishment.
As a player who has jumped from one MMO to the other (I've got MMO ADD), I think a special quest chain, item, title, ect. for returning to a game might be nice, but it certainly wouldn't keep me there. Before I return to a game I look at the forums; are people still complaining about the same things when I left the game x months ago. What I'm saying is that once you've completed that special quest chain or collected that magic axe, you're left with the same game from 3 months ago.
I say less time giving treats to returning players and more time fixing/adding/improving content.
Yea that are some interesting ideas to talk of but one idea i hate.
To be forced by whatever to build new chars.
In every MMO there is one Class i like the most and also one Char i like the most.
Every other Char i play is a mule and at top the second best and i am not willing to play the second best - it is no fun...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
These types of plans are not what I am talking about.
I am talking about doing something for players who return IN THE GAME WORLD.
30 days free....who cares, I want my character to return to something cool happening in the game.
i see where your going, sort of making all you did mean something. City of Heroes sort of does this with Day Jobs and Vetran Rewards (you earn points for your day job power/badge by being loged out in certain areas, vetran reward give you poerks, comstumes, etc for ever 3 months you have subcribed)
But at the end of the day when i hit 40 in CO or in CoH i pretty much shelve the character except to role play as theirs no real drive once you hit the cap, and no empty npc platitudes don't count. Some sort of reward based on past acomlishment that doesnt reveal itself for months would be nice in a woW game where loot is everything maybe a weapon that has some staying power. It would hardly be unbalanced if everyone can get this item they need need to be pacient (and complete a few quest chains)
Maybe even give us ways to change the world...imagine some epic quest to save Azeroth that fixes the catclysm. after 3 months you come back and you (and everyone else who unlocked the content) would experenced "saved " asteroth not "burned asteroth"