I hope its group based play like ffxi, but it would be nice to have something to do solo while LFG.
also
Don't worry yourself. It won't be solo centric.
Well I hope not. But you never know. Didn't they say World of Warcraft influenced the way they designed XIV?
No, I dont think they said that.
There's quite a few websites that have them quoted saying that though.
Then link one reliable site with the quote from a reliable source. I dont think there is one.
''Q. What kind of influences from other MMOG's like World of Warcraft, have there been on Final Fantasy XIV?
Hashimoto says:
"As with WoW, they're aimed at the casual user. We're aiming for the more casual users. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We want to be unique." ''
wow, yet another groupers vs solo player thread. This fight has about a dozen threads already. I hope they do not ruin the game for you groupers - since the FF mmos are your heaven. Having said that - the dev's are going to set it up so that they make MONEY, recently that means more solo content. To us it is a game, to them a living... expect them to follow the money.
What? This is by no means a grouper vs solo thread. Wow, way to make up lies about what I said.
This thread is more about whether they are making XIV into a solo centric game or group game and what peoples thoughts are in relation to those.
touchy, and how is what I said a lie? - it is a thread where people are discussing solo vs grouping - and there are a lot of them. Nice try, but I don't buy your self-righteous act.
wow, yet another groupers vs solo player thread. This fight has about a dozen threads already. I hope they do not ruin the game for you groupers - since the FF mmos are your heaven. Having said that - the dev's are going to set it up so that they make MONEY, recently that means more solo content. To us it is a game, to them a living... expect them to follow the money.
What? This is by no means a grouper vs solo thread. Wow, way to make up lies about what I said.
This thread is more about whether they are making XIV into a solo centric game or group game and what peoples thoughts are in relation to those.
exactly Y cant they make both people happy? I do believe that they Square has stated that they are making some parts group orianted and some solo. i have read that a person who wants to craft and only craft can do that... so i do believe that they are trying to make everyone happy.. I know for me i dont have the 4-5 hr to wait in jueno LFG. so i hope they do make alot of it causal friendly of course have the stuff that i need groups for but maby strive to have smaller groups 2-4 man things also provide us with quests that you need the total group. anyway just my 2cents
What have they said? "You can do few guildleves a day alone, but if you want to do more than that you need to help others with their leves."
What does this mean? Those who have limited playtime per day can progress alone if they wish, those who have the time to play with others will have to do just that. However this time it probably isn't necessary to have 6 players available to make progress, and we'll most likely see more duo's, trios etc. around- however grouping nonetheless. That's one way to make the game more casual without making everything soloable. You just need less people than usually to progress. You can also solo guildleves while lfp, so you'll be making progress no matter what.
I think it sounds quite good on paper at least.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I believe that most the game should be soloable provided that a group can get it done faster. And I mean alot faster than solo. What would take 30 min in a group could take up to a day. This way grouping would be favourable but if you can't find one you can go it alone and not forced to wait around for people to show up. The part of the game I feel as though shouldn't be soloable are boss encounters as they are meant to be hard and if you can solo them why call them bosses. This way although you could solo it to end game then do end game content with groups it would take alot longer unless you do have a group to do it. It's not hard to find a guild and even if your the "wrong" kind of class any pre end game guild will be glad to run you through stuff if you ask.
I believe that most the game should be soloable provided that a group can get it done faster. And I mean alot faster than solo. What would take 30 min in a group could take up to a day. This way grouping would be favourable but if you can't find one you can go it alone and not forced to wait around for people to show up. The part of the game I feel as though shouldn't be soloable are boss encounters as they are meant to be hard and if you can solo them why call them bosses. This way although you could solo it to end game then do end game content with groups it would take alot longer unless you do have a group to do it. It's not hard to find a guild and even if your the "wrong" kind of class any pre end game guild will be glad to run you through stuff if you ask.
So then you have content that takes 3 months to clear with a group.. for soloers it would take 2 years. Sounds like a silly idea to me; I don't think any soloer would bother with a game like that. Make the game for one or the other, not both.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I believe that most the game should be soloable provided that a group can get it done faster. And I mean alot faster than solo. What would take 30 min in a group could take up to a day. This way grouping would be favourable but if you can't find one you can go it alone and not forced to wait around for people to show up. The part of the game I feel as though shouldn't be soloable are boss encounters as they are meant to be hard and if you can solo them why call them bosses. This way although you could solo it to end game then do end game content with groups it would take alot longer unless you do have a group to do it. It's not hard to find a guild and even if your the "wrong" kind of class any pre end game guild will be glad to run you through stuff if you ask.
I personally find this a problem. I will use FFXI as a reference since we don't know anything about this game. If it was possible to solo to 75 in XI and you do you would not how to work with a group on end game content. Lets say you are a pld and you soloed 1-75 and you finally joined a LS that does raids. They ask you to tank and you will have a hard time trying to keep hate because you've been playing alone since lvl 1 and don't know how to keep hate in a group especially a large alliance. Then you probably have a bad rep as a tank and will have hard time finding another end game LS if the current one booted you.
A game can't please every crowd %100 and when a game tries to it will get ruined and one of the crowds would leave. For instance AoC they focused on PvP and PvE with different servers. Basing this from the launch when I played and not current game play. In order to balance the two they had to nerf classes. I will use Necro since a buddy of mines played as one and felt the nerf hammer. Necro was great at launch for PvE but was overpowered for PvP then they nerfed it making it suck for PvE and then it was balanced for PvP. This went back and forth with other classes aswell trying to get it balanced for both PvP and PvE. I say this cause its hard to make both crowds happy because in the end one of the crowds will leave. I know some people who hated the group aspect in FFXI and soon as WoW came along they left.
I wouldn't mind if they made certain levels soloable like 1-10 and after that you can choose to group or solo but it will take alot of time to solo the mobs to gain lvls. Also if a even match stayed a even match in XI in the higher lvls then it would have been more solo friendly. As someone else stated that they might make it possible to duo, trio, and quad grind instead of using a full group. I wouldn't mind that as long as the trio or quad group can't take out a IT as easy as a full group. One thing that most agree is we should have more options to do while lfg than crafting and farming.
I personally don't mind soloing every now and then, and occasionally having some time to myself.
But I personally think what makes this genre really fun is playing with other gamers.
I personally feel as though if they make It solo centered I might as well be playing a Single Player Final Fantasy. And playing that way like It's almost a single player game is no fun for me personally.
It's going to suck for me If they make It a heavy heavy solo centric game.
Am I alone here? Does everyone want a more single player experience in their MMORPG'S?
It saddens me a little that this might happen.
A couple things here.
A staple of most final fantasies is the Party. I don't see them getting rid of that any time soon. So where does that leave us in the "more soloable" kind of information we are getting. Well... to be honest, i think many of looking at it in a too much of a traditional "solo" mmo experience.
In my humble opinion, i think by more "soloable" means your group can take on more mobs at the same time. Aka more action, watching others peoples back. Heck... you all saw the videos right? You ever notice the part that shows those people on that ship fighting all those mobs? It wasn't just 1 ala ffxi. It was alot.
It think it will be a new ballgame imo. It wont be like the whole party whacking on one mob forever like ffxi was.. but lots more acton in fighting more at the same time, just being able to hold your own.. ala "soloing" a mob.
Make sense? In any case i don't EVER see them getting rid of the "Party" as it has always been a staple of final fantasy.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I think they have realized that Solo play = subs, and that forced grouping drives away potential customers. Wrong. Many people loved grouping in ffxi, it was the wait for certian classes that sucked... if people make a game more "soloable" you might as well play a single player. Its called an mmorpg for a reason. Sure, some of the diehards on this site will say, "No forced grouping means I am gone," but these folks are so rare as to not even show up on the financial radar. How wrong you are. You do realize that the "party" has been a mainstay in final fantasies? You realize how many people party for fun? Soloing is boring and only for people that wish to rush to endgame. Are you one of those? The other thing to remember was Final Fantasy was first and foremost a Single Player RPG series. So? They still had parties in those games... the only difference is you didnt have to wait on the people, they were fed to you as the game progressed. FFXI went group centric and did not get the numbers the execs in Japan had hoped for the premier fantasy computer RPG franchise; whereas the solo friendly WoW blew all away. Lol. I almost think you are trolling. Obvious troll is obvious? FF has always been group centric. You just had npcs. I hate to tell it to you, ffxi had alot of players. Might I see a link to something that says that they were unsuccessful? Please. So, my guess will be that FF XIV will be solo friendly with lots of group based options. In fact, I seem to recall Sqenix saying they are working and many fun and different options to encourage grouping, so all is not doom and gloom for you old holdouts. FFXIV will be group oriented, with solo things to do as well. I think you (since you came from wow im assuming?) are taking it the wrong way.
Nuff said really.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I personally don't mind soloing every now and then, and occasionally having some time to myself.
But I personally think what makes this genre really fun is playing with other gamers.
I personally feel as though if they make It solo centered I might as well be playing a Single Player Final Fantasy. And playing that way like It's almost a single player game is no fun for me personally.
It's going to suck for me If they make It a heavy heavy solo centric game.
Am I alone here? Does everyone want a more single player experience in their MMORPG'S?
It saddens me a little that this might happen.
A couple things here.
A staple of most final fantasies is the Party. I don't see them getting rid of that any time soon. So where does that leave us in the "more soloable" kind of information we are getting. Well... to be honest, i think many of looking at it in a too much of a traditional "solo" mmo experience.
In my humble opinion, i think by more "soloable" means your group can take on more mobs at the same time. Aka more action, watching others peoples back. Heck... you all saw the videos right? You ever notice the part that shows those people on that ship fighting all those mobs? It wasn't just 1 ala ffxi. It was alot.
It think it will be a new ballgame imo. It wont be like the whole party whacking on one mob forever like ffxi was.. but lots more acton in fighting more at the same time, just being able to hold your own.. ala "soloing" a mob.
Make sense? In any case i don't EVER see them getting rid of the "Party" as it has always been a staple of final fantasy.
Originally posted by ic0n67 Originally posted by CDCosta Originally posted by swalker23 Originally posted by a1csims I hope its group based play like ffxi, but it would be nice to have something to do solo while LFG.
also Don't worry yourself. It won't be solo centric.
oh shit ... lets keep the train going ...
While I agree 100% on group play aspect... I'm not sure what the "have something to do solo while LFG" part means given what was in FFXI.
Whenever I was LFG in FFXI, I was crafting. Or harvesting mats for crafting. Or I was skilling up weapons for staff special skill or sword special skill (that took quite a long time off/on solo and grouped). Or checking out the AH for deals. Or helping/chatting with people in my linkshell with something. Or trying to solo Genbu with my RDM/NIN.. (failed hard everytime lol) Or sneaking around in some really tough area looking for rare stuff.
If all else failed, I soloed mobs which interestingly, isn't as hard as some people would lead you to believe. I always found plenty to do whether solo or in a group. Of course I preferred the groups, but the solo aspect was still filled with plenty of time doing other things to improve my character.
I'm just not sure what you mean by something to do while waiting. Honestly, I would rather have them err on the side of too much group content in FFXIV than too much solo content. God knows the kind of A.D.D. people we will get because they can't be the first to 80 if they implement a "solo friendly" environment.
You hear them QQ big time NOW in AION on the LFG channel about grind and how long it takes to get to X level. And compared to FFXI.. AION is a breeze level wise.
I'd personally prefer they keep the group reqs up and stiff to about 90% with about 10% solo as a sort of Darwinian filter for gamers.
While I agree 100% on group play aspect... I'm not sure what the "have something to do solo while LFG" part means given what was in FFXI.
Whenever I was LFG in FFXI, I was crafting. Or harvesting mats for crafting. Or I was skilling up weapons for staff special skill or sword special skill (that took quite a long time off/on solo and grouped). Or checking out the AH for deals. Or helping/chatting with people in my linkshell with something. Or trying to solo Genbu with my RDM/NIN.. (failed hard everytime lol) Or sneaking around in some really tough area looking for rare stuff. If all else failed, I soloed mobs which interestingly, isn't as hard as some people would lead you to believe. I always found plenty to do whether solo or in a group. Of course I preferred the groups, but the solo aspect was still filled with plenty of time doing other things to improve my character. I'm just not sure what you mean by something to do while waiting. Honestly, I would rather have them err on the side of too much group content in FFXIV than too much solo content. God knows the kind of A.D.D. people we will get because they can't be the first to 80 if they implement a "solo friendly" environment.
You hear them QQ big time NOW in AION on the LFG channel about grind and how long it takes to get to X level. And compared to FFXI.. AION is a breeze level wise.
I'd personally prefer they keep the group reqs up and stiff to about 90% with about 10% solo as a sort of Darwinian filter for gamers.
I also crafted while LFG in the early days, I was able to get blacksmithing to 95ish. At that point I couldn't gather any material because of the CGF in the later days. They had bots at majority of the mining points and in the most dangerous places to gather like Ifrits couldron they were there in numbers mining. You couldn't farm any type of money item because of them. Only thing I could do was watch TV while lfg.
I'm sure soloing wasn't hard for you since you were a rdm they are basically the best solo class besides bst and going /nin basically made you unstoppable.
I would like to see a solo story quest for each class from early lvls to max. Like the quests you get for a advanced classes in XI but after you get the class the quest continues and you learn more about how you class got to be. It could also award you class specific armor, weapons, and spells.
An interesting reply. First off, let me say I've not played FF, even though I think it looks gorgeous. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having an MMO cater to the exact style you described. Speaking strictly for myself, all the pro-grouping attributes you see as plusses I see as evidence that FF will never be for me. I sometimes enjoy grouping in a game, but I am rarely comfortable with the group pace (I like to go slow and scenic) and I always loathe the dependance upon other players to advance my character.
I intend no knocks against the game, and have fun for all who enjoy that style, but remember that some of those features are the very reason some gamers don't play it. Perhaps you also see that as a plus. /shrug
hey Rob dont give up too soon. Many people (and this goes for every prerelease game ive ever seen) will state that what they want from the game "has been already stated as how its going to be". A lot of people wish so hard they start believing stuff that is still not settled. No one here really knows how it will be.
Originally posted by swalker23 While I agree 100% on group play aspect... I'm not sure what the "have something to do solo while LFG" part means given what was in FFXI.Whenever I was LFG in FFXI, I was crafting. Or harvesting mats for crafting. Or I was skilling up weapons for staff special skill or sword special skill (that took quite a long time off/on solo and grouped). Or checking out the AH for deals. Or helping/chatting with people in my linkshell with something. Or trying to solo Genbu with my RDM/NIN.. (failed hard everytime lol) Or sneaking around in some really tough area looking for rare stuff. If all else failed, I soloed mobs which interestingly, isn't as hard as some people would lead you to believe. I always found plenty to do whether solo or in a group. Of course I preferred the groups, but the solo aspect was still filled with plenty of time doing other things to improve my character. I'm just not sure what you mean by something to do while waiting. Honestly, I would rather have them err on the side of too much group content in FFXIV than too much solo content. God knows the kind of A.D.D. people we will get because they can't be the first to 80 if they implement a "solo friendly" environment.You hear them QQ big time NOW in AION on the LFG channel about grind and how long it takes to get to X level. And compared to FFXI.. AION is a breeze level wise.I'd personally prefer they keep the group reqs up and stiff to about 90% with about 10% solo as a sort of Darwinian filter for gamers.
I also crafted while LFG in the early days, I was able to get blacksmithing to 95ish. At that point I couldn't gather any material because of the CGF in the later days. They had bots at majority of the mining points and in the most dangerous places to gather like Ifrits couldron they were there in numbers mining. You couldn't farm any type of money item because of them. Only thing I could do was watch TV while lfg. I'm sure soloing wasn't hard for you since you were a rdm they are basically the best solo class besides bst and going /nin basically made you unstoppable.
I would like to see a solo story quest for each class from early lvls to max. Like the quests you get for a advanced classes in XI but after you get the class the quest continues and you learn more about how you class got to be. It could also award you class specific armor, weapons, and spells.
Any class could solo, so again... I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about the TIME it takes to kill something? If so, that's a different issue altogether but wise people generally soloed against things that they had an advantage over. BLMs nuked fish in SEA and stuff in SKY before the TAU. PLDs soloed ghost areas as Holy spells did more damage than on say.. sheep type mobs. Dragoons soloed VERY well as did THF/NIN. THF/NIN was the best solo class imo.. stack evasion and dex and you were unhittable.. even better than a RDM a lot of times. Please don't turn this into a "poor me" whatever class you played. Even WHM/NIN could solo well with a hammer skill.
The thing is, people wanted to solo FAST. With a WHM. And you just can't do that, so they whine. I mean.. a BLM kills fast.. how come I can't? ....
Again, 10% solo content is about right for this game, especially with so many of these other hybrid pvp/pve/solo MMOs having everyone complain all day on chat channels about the grind and "I can't do this with my character".
I'm not saying you are whining, but you are very wrong thinking you can't solo in FFXI.
Any class could solo, so again... I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about the TIME it takes to kill something? If so, that's a different issue altogether but wise people generally soloed against things that they had an advantage over. BLMs nuked fish in SEA and stuff in SKY before the TAU. PLDs soloed ghost areas as Holy spells did more damage than on say.. sheep type mobs. Dragoons soloed VERY well as did THF/NIN. THF/NIN was the best solo class imo.. stack evasion and dex and you were unhittable.. even better than a RDM a lot of times. Please don't turn this into a "poor me" whatever class you played. Even WHM/NIN could solo well with a hammer skill. The thing is, people wanted to solo FAST. With a WHM. And you just can't do that, so they whine. I mean.. a BLM kills fast.. how come I can't? .... Again, 10% solo content is about right for this game, especially with so many of these other hybrid pvp/pve/solo MMOs having everyone complain all day on chat channels about the grind and "I can't do this with my character". I'm not saying you are whining, but you are very wrong thinking you can't solo in FFXI.
I'm not turning this into a "poor me" class. I had several jobs at lvl 75, BST, WAR, DRK, RNG, and BLU. You are right as in each job had specific mobs they could solo easy and its will take different amounts of time. You forgot to mention lvl(toughness) of the mob, in that case yes any class can solo from TW to EM. That will take alot of time depending on class and then factor in the downtime to heal and the low exp gain over time its not even worth it unless you are bored or killing time while lfg. The good XP for soloing comes in with mobs T and above which some classes can't do. Blm could solo IT mobs and below all with different amounts of time just sleep, nuke, sleep and so on. I forgot about thf and yes they are a wickedly great solo class against melee type mobs but some classes had trouble trying to solo even a EM mob. Yes people want to solo fast (I don't I love group grind) but some classes can solo better than others due to healing themselves somehow or great def and evasion. People will whine regardless of what a game devoloper does because we all have different taste some like to grind, others solo, some like to queset and so on.
Also before you ****ing try to call someone out be sure to read what they wrote. Not once did I say you can't solo in FFXI. All I mentioned is that YOU didn't have a hard time soloing because you were a rdm and going /nin helps alot and I was actually giving you praise on what you do. I could go on and continue to bash you but I'm not. I'm not a basher and don't like to do it unless you say something completely stupid or annoying.
I said this before in another thread, but it's worth repeating... the problem with FFXI isn't that it is group dependent or that there isn't anything to do while LFP. The problem is it isn't group friendly. It always blew my mind when there were 30 people all LFP and all sitting in Jeuno waiting for that invite. That's the problem that FFXIV needs to address, not the lack of solo content. I think for the most part people don't mind a group dependent game, what they do mind is not being able to group easily in a group dependent game.
I love to solo and attempt to make it through all of the game play solo. If I have to group I just don't do that portion. Guess I am just anti-social. The single player games on the market just aren't as interesting as trying to solo content in a MMORPG.
Every game I have played where I joined a guild I left within 3 months. Every game where I attempted to group to play it the way the developers meant it to be played I left. Grouping and joining Guilds just ruined the fun of it for me. Maybe I am alone but I have played EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, DAOC, and a few others. Currently I am playing LOTRO while waiting to see how FFXIV turns out. I hope there is the ability to solo most of the content. I think there should be content that can not be soloed and it never has bothered me in any game that I could not solo ALL of it.
I made it to pretty high levels in EQ2, Vanguard, FFXI and DAOC but moved on because the end game was group only. If there was a game that would allow me to solo end content I would play it for quite a while.
I don't think I am the only one that believes that way either but it is how I think.
I said this before in another thread, but it's worth repeating... the problem with FFXI isn't that it is group dependent or that there isn't anything to do while LFP. The problem is it isn't group friendly. It always blew my mind when there were 30 people all LFP and all sitting in Jeuno waiting for that invite. That's the problem that FFXIV needs to address, not the lack of solo content. I think for the most part people don't mind a group dependent game, what they do mind is not being able to group easily in a group dependent game.
I've never played the game. What makes grouping difficult?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I love to solo and attempt to make it through all of the game play solo. If I have to group I just don't do that portion. Guess I am just anti-social. The single player games on the market just aren't as interesting as trying to solo content in a MMORPG. Every game I have played where I joined a guild I left within 3 months. Every game where I attempted to group to play it the way the developers meant it to be played I left. Grouping and joining Guilds just ruined the fun of it for me. Maybe I am alone but I have played EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, DAOC, and a few others. Currently I am playing LOTRO while waiting to see how FFXIV turns out. I hope there is the ability to solo most of the content. I think there should be content that can not be soloed and it never has bothered me in any game that I could not solo ALL of it. I made it to pretty high levels in EQ2, Vanguard, FFXI and DAOC but moved on because the end game was group only. If there was a game that would allow me to solo end content I would play it for quite a while. I don't think I am the only one that believes that way either but it is how I think.
A game where you solo and only solo? a game where its all solo end game? Just buy a rpg, and leave out the mmo part. many great titles out there for you.
I love to solo and attempt to make it through all of the game play solo. If I have to group I just don't do that portion. Guess I am just anti-social. The single player games on the market just aren't as interesting as trying to solo content in a MMORPG. Every game I have played where I joined a guild I left within 3 months. Every game where I attempted to group to play it the way the developers meant it to be played I left. Grouping and joining Guilds just ruined the fun of it for me. Maybe I am alone but I have played EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, DAOC, and a few others. Currently I am playing LOTRO while waiting to see how FFXIV turns out. I hope there is the ability to solo most of the content. I think there should be content that can not be soloed and it never has bothered me in any game that I could not solo ALL of it. I made it to pretty high levels in EQ2, Vanguard, FFXI and DAOC but moved on because the end game was group only. If there was a game that would allow me to solo end content I would play it for quite a while. I don't think I am the only one that believes that way either but it is how I think.
I just don't get this at all. Why are you playing mmorpgs? If you want to solo, play a single player rpg. Many of us play mmos for the group/social factor and it's people like you that are ruining it imo. Sorry if thats harsh but it's true.
I love to solo and attempt to make it through all of the game play solo. If I have to group I just don't do that portion. Guess I am just anti-social. The single player games on the market just aren't as interesting as trying to solo content in a MMORPG. Every game I have played where I joined a guild I left within 3 months. Every game where I attempted to group to play it the way the developers meant it to be played I left. Grouping and joining Guilds just ruined the fun of it for me. Maybe I am alone but I have played EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, DAOC, and a few others. Currently I am playing LOTRO while waiting to see how FFXIV turns out. I hope there is the ability to solo most of the content. I think there should be content that can not be soloed and it never has bothered me in any game that I could not solo ALL of it. I made it to pretty high levels in EQ2, Vanguard, FFXI and DAOC but moved on because the end game was group only. If there was a game that would allow me to solo end content I would play it for quite a while. I don't think I am the only one that believes that way either but it is how I think.
I find the text in red very hard to belive, and if your serious your one of a kind.
If a person could solo end game content they would get everything and then move on to a new game in no time. The end game content would have to be a grind of epic proportions to keep people playing it, if it was soloable.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Originally posted by swalker23 Any class could solo, so again... I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about the TIME it takes to kill something? If so, that's a different issue altogether but wise people generally soloed against things that they had an advantage over. BLMs nuked fish in SEA and stuff in SKY before the TAU. PLDs soloed ghost areas as Holy spells did more damage than on say.. sheep type mobs. Dragoons soloed VERY well as did THF/NIN. THF/NIN was the best solo class imo.. stack evasion and dex and you were unhittable.. even better than a RDM a lot of times. Please don't turn this into a "poor me" whatever class you played. Even WHM/NIN could solo well with a hammer skill. The thing is, people wanted to solo FAST. With a WHM. And you just can't do that, so they whine. I mean.. a BLM kills fast.. how come I can't? .... Again, 10% solo content is about right for this game, especially with so many of these other hybrid pvp/pve/solo MMOs having everyone complain all day on chat channels about the grind and "I can't do this with my character". I'm not saying you are whining, but you are very wrong thinking you can't solo in FFXI.
I'm not turning this into a "poor me" class. I had several jobs at lvl 75, BST, WAR, DRK, RNG, and BLU. You are right as in each job had specific mobs they could solo easy and its will take different amounts of time. You forgot to mention lvl(toughness) of the mob, in that case yes any class can solo from TW to EM. That will take alot of time depending on class and then factor in the downtime to heal and the low exp gain over time its not even worth it unless you are bored or killing time while lfg. The good XP for soloing comes in with mobs T and above which some classes can't do. Blm could solo IT mobs and below all with different amounts of time just sleep, nuke, sleep and so on. I forgot about thf and yes they are a wickedly great solo class against melee type mobs but some classes had trouble trying to solo even a EM mob. Yes people want to solo fast (I don't I love group grind) but some classes can solo better than others due to healing themselves somehow or great def and evasion. People will whine regardless of what a game devoloper does because we all have different taste some like to grind, others solo, some like to queset and so on.
Also before you ****ing try to call someone out be sure to read what they wrote. Not once did I say you can't solo in FFXI. All I mentioned is that YOU didn't have a hard time soloing because you were a rdm and going /nin helps alot and I was actually giving you praise on what you do. I could go on and continue to bash you but I'm not. I'm not a basher and don't like to do it unless you say something completely stupid or annoying.
I did read what you wrote.
And I'll say it again... RDM/NIN doesn't make anyone special. Any class can solo with the right subjob, even without specific mobs to feast on but that sure helps just like in any other MMO.
I just pointed those parts out for those people who seem to have trouble with the concept and claim you can't solo. BST was the best soloer in FFXI but try using a BST in places like Ro' Maeve and you got your lunch handed to you. Same with magic users due to the magic aggro mobs there, but non magic classes could live in here staying away from the sound aggro mobs (not sure why though, this area didn't drop much loot IMO, unless they were shard farming)
I just think people weren't using their brains in this game who QQ while soloing because they came from games where any class could kill any mob by themselves and they liked God Mode. IMO, Paladin was the slowest soloing class I did; but I know plenty of Paladins who soloed when they didn't feel like dying in a PUG run. They just stayed in the RIGHT areas.
I didn't claim you said soloing was impossible (which we both know is a lie made up by bad players), but you are inferring that only certain jobs could do it well like RDM/NIN when in reality anyone could if they use their marbles.
Just not as fast, and if someone wasn't in a hurry to max level in two months then that really didn't make any difference, does it? But thanks for the RDM "compliment", I guess you decided to bash me sometime after that according to what you wrote there.
MMO's need to correctly give impressions of what they are about.
If an MMO flatly requires grouping then that should be made explicitly clear for the very reason that most players in the MMO space have either played WoW themselves or know someone that does, or are at least quite familiar with it, the ones who know nothing about it but are MMO players are a minority. Because of how WoW made an MMO that lets you solo to max level very easily (if not being the preferred way) and grouping being a side-game, & raiding being it's end-game it didn't move the genre forward at all, in my opinion it actually retrograded the genre, what it did do was put MMO's into the public conciousness, however it should be relabelled as a Massively Singleplayer game in my opinion as that is what the bulk of it's content is.
However those of us that were around prior to WoW have to stop thinking MMO = group based because that got changed, hence why I say the game needs to be clear on it's stated mechanics, group dependant should be stated if it is a game that is so designed. MMO's that are trying to be an "everyman" game need to balance their content, grouping being a unmitigated requirement is not going to gain broad appeal, but a game that is so totally soloable will run into problems too, such as a poor community, WoW only has the "pockets" of community it does have by sheer weight of subscribersghip, if it's numbers were not so high it's communities would implode, guilds form & implode faster in WoW than in any game I've ever seen, sure it has some long-lived guilds but they are the exception to the rule, and many of those originated in earlier games even.
Balance is what is needed, each game will have it's own, a modern MMO needs to be able to provide a very wide range of activities to a massively varied audience, if it wants to both have good subs & good communities it will need to provide just about every element that has existed in MMO's to date ......& then some, massively isn't just for the number of players, it's for the scope of the game.
Provide PvP, RvR, Solo questing, Group Questing, Instance (dungeon/mission) crawling, Raiding (instanced, open world competitive PvE - first to engage, open world with PvP/RvR), and variations on crafting, non-combat progression, puzzle solving, but without descending into a fairground and you are starting to provide to all tastes......
But with all that said, please developers, start by building worlds again instead of rollercoaster rides.
Comments
Don't worry yourself. It won't be solo centric.
Well I hope not. But you never know. Didn't they say World of Warcraft influenced the way they designed XIV?
No, I dont think they said that.
There's quite a few websites that have them quoted saying that though.
Then link one reliable site with the quote from a reliable source. I dont think there is one.
''Q. What kind of influences from other MMOG's like World of Warcraft, have there been on Final Fantasy XIV?
Hashimoto says:
"As with WoW, they're aimed at the casual user. We're aiming for the more casual users. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We want to be unique." ''
Source : www.thefinalfantasy14.com/ff14/e3-press-conference-q-and-a/
You two are going to be arguing apples and oranges on this one til the game is released.
No it was nothing at all like that. I thought they never said they were influenced by wow and asked him for a link, which he provided. End of story.
What? This is by no means a grouper vs solo thread. Wow, way to make up lies about what I said.
This thread is more about whether they are making XIV into a solo centric game or group game and what peoples thoughts are in relation to those.
touchy, and how is what I said a lie? - it is a thread where people are discussing solo vs grouping - and there are a lot of them. Nice try, but I don't buy your self-righteous act.
What? This is by no means a grouper vs solo thread. Wow, way to make up lies about what I said.
This thread is more about whether they are making XIV into a solo centric game or group game and what peoples thoughts are in relation to those.
exactly Y cant they make both people happy? I do believe that they Square has stated that they are making some parts group orianted and some solo. i have read that a person who wants to craft and only craft can do that... so i do believe that they are trying to make everyone happy.. I know for me i dont have the 4-5 hr to wait in jueno LFG. so i hope they do make alot of it causal friendly of course have the stuff that i need groups for but maby strive to have smaller groups 2-4 man things also provide us with quests that you need the total group. anyway just my 2cents
What have they said? "You can do few guildleves a day alone, but if you want to do more than that you need to help others with their leves."
What does this mean? Those who have limited playtime per day can progress alone if they wish, those who have the time to play with others will have to do just that. However this time it probably isn't necessary to have 6 players available to make progress, and we'll most likely see more duo's, trios etc. around- however grouping nonetheless. That's one way to make the game more casual without making everything soloable. You just need less people than usually to progress. You can also solo guildleves while lfp, so you'll be making progress no matter what.
I think it sounds quite good on paper at least.
I believe that most the game should be soloable provided that a group can get it done faster. And I mean alot faster than solo. What would take 30 min in a group could take up to a day. This way grouping would be favourable but if you can't find one you can go it alone and not forced to wait around for people to show up. The part of the game I feel as though shouldn't be soloable are boss encounters as they are meant to be hard and if you can solo them why call them bosses. This way although you could solo it to end game then do end game content with groups it would take alot longer unless you do have a group to do it. It's not hard to find a guild and even if your the "wrong" kind of class any pre end game guild will be glad to run you through stuff if you ask.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Run throughs blow. They should be eliminated from MMOs.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So then you have content that takes 3 months to clear with a group.. for soloers it would take 2 years. Sounds like a silly idea to me; I don't think any soloer would bother with a game like that. Make the game for one or the other, not both.
I personally find this a problem. I will use FFXI as a reference since we don't know anything about this game. If it was possible to solo to 75 in XI and you do you would not how to work with a group on end game content. Lets say you are a pld and you soloed 1-75 and you finally joined a LS that does raids. They ask you to tank and you will have a hard time trying to keep hate because you've been playing alone since lvl 1 and don't know how to keep hate in a group especially a large alliance. Then you probably have a bad rep as a tank and will have hard time finding another end game LS if the current one booted you.
A game can't please every crowd %100 and when a game tries to it will get ruined and one of the crowds would leave. For instance AoC they focused on PvP and PvE with different servers. Basing this from the launch when I played and not current game play. In order to balance the two they had to nerf classes. I will use Necro since a buddy of mines played as one and felt the nerf hammer. Necro was great at launch for PvE but was overpowered for PvP then they nerfed it making it suck for PvE and then it was balanced for PvP. This went back and forth with other classes aswell trying to get it balanced for both PvP and PvE. I say this cause its hard to make both crowds happy because in the end one of the crowds will leave. I know some people who hated the group aspect in FFXI and soon as WoW came along they left.
I wouldn't mind if they made certain levels soloable like 1-10 and after that you can choose to group or solo but it will take alot of time to solo the mobs to gain lvls. Also if a even match stayed a even match in XI in the higher lvls then it would have been more solo friendly. As someone else stated that they might make it possible to duo, trio, and quad grind instead of using a full group. I wouldn't mind that as long as the trio or quad group can't take out a IT as easy as a full group. One thing that most agree is we should have more options to do while lfg than crafting and farming.
A couple things here.
A staple of most final fantasies is the Party. I don't see them getting rid of that any time soon. So where does that leave us in the "more soloable" kind of information we are getting. Well... to be honest, i think many of looking at it in a too much of a traditional "solo" mmo experience.
In my humble opinion, i think by more "soloable" means your group can take on more mobs at the same time. Aka more action, watching others peoples back. Heck... you all saw the videos right? You ever notice the part that shows those people on that ship fighting all those mobs? It wasn't just 1 ala ffxi. It was alot.
It think it will be a new ballgame imo. It wont be like the whole party whacking on one mob forever like ffxi was.. but lots more acton in fighting more at the same time, just being able to hold your own.. ala "soloing" a mob.
Make sense? In any case i don't EVER see them getting rid of the "Party" as it has always been a staple of final fantasy.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Nuff said really.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
A couple things here.
A staple of most final fantasies is the Party. I don't see them getting rid of that any time soon. So where does that leave us in the "more soloable" kind of information we are getting. Well... to be honest, i think many of looking at it in a too much of a traditional "solo" mmo experience.
In my humble opinion, i think by more "soloable" means your group can take on more mobs at the same time. Aka more action, watching others peoples back. Heck... you all saw the videos right? You ever notice the part that shows those people on that ship fighting all those mobs? It wasn't just 1 ala ffxi. It was alot.
It think it will be a new ballgame imo. It wont be like the whole party whacking on one mob forever like ffxi was.. but lots more acton in fighting more at the same time, just being able to hold your own.. ala "soloing" a mob.
Make sense? In any case i don't EVER see them getting rid of the "Party" as it has always been a staple of final fantasy.
I completely agree with you
Don't worry yourself. It won't be solo centric.
oh shit ... lets keep the train going ...
While I agree 100% on group play aspect... I'm not sure what the "have something to do solo while LFG" part means given what was in FFXI.
Whenever I was LFG in FFXI, I was crafting. Or harvesting mats for crafting. Or I was skilling up weapons for staff special skill or sword special skill (that took quite a long time off/on solo and grouped). Or checking out the AH for deals. Or helping/chatting with people in my linkshell with something. Or trying to solo Genbu with my RDM/NIN.. (failed hard everytime lol) Or sneaking around in some really tough area looking for rare stuff.
If all else failed, I soloed mobs which interestingly, isn't as hard as some people would lead you to believe. I always found plenty to do whether solo or in a group. Of course I preferred the groups, but the solo aspect was still filled with plenty of time doing other things to improve my character.
I'm just not sure what you mean by something to do while waiting. Honestly, I would rather have them err on the side of too much group content in FFXIV than too much solo content. God knows the kind of A.D.D. people we will get because they can't be the first to 80 if they implement a "solo friendly" environment.
You hear them QQ big time NOW in AION on the LFG channel about grind and how long it takes to get to X level. And compared to FFXI.. AION is a breeze level wise.
I'd personally prefer they keep the group reqs up and stiff to about 90% with about 10% solo as a sort of Darwinian filter for gamers.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I also crafted while LFG in the early days, I was able to get blacksmithing to 95ish. At that point I couldn't gather any material because of the CGF in the later days. They had bots at majority of the mining points and in the most dangerous places to gather like Ifrits couldron they were there in numbers mining. You couldn't farm any type of money item because of them. Only thing I could do was watch TV while lfg.
I'm sure soloing wasn't hard for you since you were a rdm they are basically the best solo class besides bst and going /nin basically made you unstoppable.
I would like to see a solo story quest for each class from early lvls to max. Like the quests you get for a advanced classes in XI but after you get the class the quest continues and you learn more about how you class got to be. It could also award you class specific armor, weapons, and spells.
An interesting reply. First off, let me say I've not played FF, even though I think it looks gorgeous. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having an MMO cater to the exact style you described. Speaking strictly for myself, all the pro-grouping attributes you see as plusses I see as evidence that FF will never be for me. I sometimes enjoy grouping in a game, but I am rarely comfortable with the group pace (I like to go slow and scenic) and I always loathe the dependance upon other players to advance my character.
I intend no knocks against the game, and have fun for all who enjoy that style, but remember that some of those features are the very reason some gamers don't play it. Perhaps you also see that as a plus. /shrug
hey Rob dont give up too soon. Many people (and this goes for every prerelease game ive ever seen) will state that what they want from the game "has been already stated as how its going to be". A lot of people wish so hard they start believing stuff that is still not settled. No one here really knows how it will be.
I also crafted while LFG in the early days, I was able to get blacksmithing to 95ish. At that point I couldn't gather any material because of the CGF in the later days. They had bots at majority of the mining points and in the most dangerous places to gather like Ifrits couldron they were there in numbers mining. You couldn't farm any type of money item because of them. Only thing I could do was watch TV while lfg.
I'm sure soloing wasn't hard for you since you were a rdm they are basically the best solo class besides bst and going /nin basically made you unstoppable.
I would like to see a solo story quest for each class from early lvls to max. Like the quests you get for a advanced classes in XI but after you get the class the quest continues and you learn more about how you class got to be. It could also award you class specific armor, weapons, and spells.
Any class could solo, so again... I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about the TIME it takes to kill something? If so, that's a different issue altogether but wise people generally soloed against things that they had an advantage over. BLMs nuked fish in SEA and stuff in SKY before the TAU. PLDs soloed ghost areas as Holy spells did more damage than on say.. sheep type mobs. Dragoons soloed VERY well as did THF/NIN. THF/NIN was the best solo class imo.. stack evasion and dex and you were unhittable.. even better than a RDM a lot of times. Please don't turn this into a "poor me" whatever class you played. Even WHM/NIN could solo well with a hammer skill.
The thing is, people wanted to solo FAST. With a WHM. And you just can't do that, so they whine. I mean.. a BLM kills fast.. how come I can't? ....
Again, 10% solo content is about right for this game, especially with so many of these other hybrid pvp/pve/solo MMOs having everyone complain all day on chat channels about the grind and "I can't do this with my character".
I'm not saying you are whining, but you are very wrong thinking you can't solo in FFXI.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'm not turning this into a "poor me" class. I had several jobs at lvl 75, BST, WAR, DRK, RNG, and BLU. You are right as in each job had specific mobs they could solo easy and its will take different amounts of time. You forgot to mention lvl(toughness) of the mob, in that case yes any class can solo from TW to EM. That will take alot of time depending on class and then factor in the downtime to heal and the low exp gain over time its not even worth it unless you are bored or killing time while lfg. The good XP for soloing comes in with mobs T and above which some classes can't do. Blm could solo IT mobs and below all with different amounts of time just sleep, nuke, sleep and so on. I forgot about thf and yes they are a wickedly great solo class against melee type mobs but some classes had trouble trying to solo even a EM mob. Yes people want to solo fast (I don't I love group grind) but some classes can solo better than others due to healing themselves somehow or great def and evasion. People will whine regardless of what a game devoloper does because we all have different taste some like to grind, others solo, some like to queset and so on.
Also before you ****ing try to call someone out be sure to read what they wrote. Not once did I say you can't solo in FFXI. All I mentioned is that YOU didn't have a hard time soloing because you were a rdm and going /nin helps alot and I was actually giving you praise on what you do. I could go on and continue to bash you but I'm not. I'm not a basher and don't like to do it unless you say something completely stupid or annoying.
I said this before in another thread, but it's worth repeating... the problem with FFXI isn't that it is group dependent or that there isn't anything to do while LFP. The problem is it isn't group friendly. It always blew my mind when there were 30 people all LFP and all sitting in Jeuno waiting for that invite. That's the problem that FFXIV needs to address, not the lack of solo content. I think for the most part people don't mind a group dependent game, what they do mind is not being able to group easily in a group dependent game.
I love to solo and attempt to make it through all of the game play solo. If I have to group I just don't do that portion. Guess I am just anti-social. The single player games on the market just aren't as interesting as trying to solo content in a MMORPG.
Every game I have played where I joined a guild I left within 3 months. Every game where I attempted to group to play it the way the developers meant it to be played I left. Grouping and joining Guilds just ruined the fun of it for me. Maybe I am alone but I have played EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, DAOC, and a few others. Currently I am playing LOTRO while waiting to see how FFXIV turns out. I hope there is the ability to solo most of the content. I think there should be content that can not be soloed and it never has bothered me in any game that I could not solo ALL of it.
I made it to pretty high levels in EQ2, Vanguard, FFXI and DAOC but moved on because the end game was group only. If there was a game that would allow me to solo end content I would play it for quite a while.
I don't think I am the only one that believes that way either but it is how I think.
I've never played the game. What makes grouping difficult?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I just don't get this at all. Why are you playing mmorpgs? If you want to solo, play a single player rpg. Many of us play mmos for the group/social factor and it's people like you that are ruining it imo. Sorry if thats harsh but it's true.
I find the text in red very hard to belive, and if your serious your one of a kind.
If a person could solo end game content they would get everything and then move on to a new game in no time. The end game content would have to be a grind of epic proportions to keep people playing it, if it was soloable.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I'm not turning this into a "poor me" class. I had several jobs at lvl 75, BST, WAR, DRK, RNG, and BLU. You are right as in each job had specific mobs they could solo easy and its will take different amounts of time. You forgot to mention lvl(toughness) of the mob, in that case yes any class can solo from TW to EM. That will take alot of time depending on class and then factor in the downtime to heal and the low exp gain over time its not even worth it unless you are bored or killing time while lfg. The good XP for soloing comes in with mobs T and above which some classes can't do. Blm could solo IT mobs and below all with different amounts of time just sleep, nuke, sleep and so on. I forgot about thf and yes they are a wickedly great solo class against melee type mobs but some classes had trouble trying to solo even a EM mob. Yes people want to solo fast (I don't I love group grind) but some classes can solo better than others due to healing themselves somehow or great def and evasion. People will whine regardless of what a game devoloper does because we all have different taste some like to grind, others solo, some like to queset and so on.
Also before you ****ing try to call someone out be sure to read what they wrote. Not once did I say you can't solo in FFXI. All I mentioned is that YOU didn't have a hard time soloing because you were a rdm and going /nin helps alot and I was actually giving you praise on what you do. I could go on and continue to bash you but I'm not. I'm not a basher and don't like to do it unless you say something completely stupid or annoying.
I did read what you wrote.
And I'll say it again... RDM/NIN doesn't make anyone special. Any class can solo with the right subjob, even without specific mobs to feast on but that sure helps just like in any other MMO.
I just pointed those parts out for those people who seem to have trouble with the concept and claim you can't solo. BST was the best soloer in FFXI but try using a BST in places like Ro' Maeve and you got your lunch handed to you. Same with magic users due to the magic aggro mobs there, but non magic classes could live in here staying away from the sound aggro mobs (not sure why though, this area didn't drop much loot IMO, unless they were shard farming)
I just think people weren't using their brains in this game who QQ while soloing because they came from games where any class could kill any mob by themselves and they liked God Mode. IMO, Paladin was the slowest soloing class I did; but I know plenty of Paladins who soloed when they didn't feel like dying in a PUG run. They just stayed in the RIGHT areas.
I didn't claim you said soloing was impossible (which we both know is a lie made up by bad players), but you are inferring that only certain jobs could do it well like RDM/NIN when in reality anyone could if they use their marbles.
Just not as fast, and if someone wasn't in a hurry to max level in two months then that really didn't make any difference, does it? But thanks for the RDM "compliment", I guess you decided to bash me sometime after that according to what you wrote there.
"TO MICHAEL!"
MMO's need to correctly give impressions of what they are about.
If an MMO flatly requires grouping then that should be made explicitly clear for the very reason that most players in the MMO space have either played WoW themselves or know someone that does, or are at least quite familiar with it, the ones who know nothing about it but are MMO players are a minority. Because of how WoW made an MMO that lets you solo to max level very easily (if not being the preferred way) and grouping being a side-game, & raiding being it's end-game it didn't move the genre forward at all, in my opinion it actually retrograded the genre, what it did do was put MMO's into the public conciousness, however it should be relabelled as a Massively Singleplayer game in my opinion as that is what the bulk of it's content is.
However those of us that were around prior to WoW have to stop thinking MMO = group based because that got changed, hence why I say the game needs to be clear on it's stated mechanics, group dependant should be stated if it is a game that is so designed. MMO's that are trying to be an "everyman" game need to balance their content, grouping being a unmitigated requirement is not going to gain broad appeal, but a game that is so totally soloable will run into problems too, such as a poor community, WoW only has the "pockets" of community it does have by sheer weight of subscribersghip, if it's numbers were not so high it's communities would implode, guilds form & implode faster in WoW than in any game I've ever seen, sure it has some long-lived guilds but they are the exception to the rule, and many of those originated in earlier games even.
Balance is what is needed, each game will have it's own, a modern MMO needs to be able to provide a very wide range of activities to a massively varied audience, if it wants to both have good subs & good communities it will need to provide just about every element that has existed in MMO's to date ......& then some, massively isn't just for the number of players, it's for the scope of the game.
Provide PvP, RvR, Solo questing, Group Questing, Instance (dungeon/mission) crawling, Raiding (instanced, open world competitive PvE - first to engage, open world with PvP/RvR), and variations on crafting, non-combat progression, puzzle solving, but without descending into a fairground and you are starting to provide to all tastes......
But with all that said, please developers, start by building worlds again instead of rollercoaster rides.