I would think if anything ,this proves how bad PVP is in the RPG genre.It took away this players ability to think,enjoy,explore without being badgered by people that had nothing better to do than kill him.Really there is imo no purpose to designing a game or map,if all players do is V-line towards other players to kill them.Imagine if the OP just wanted to spend some time harvesting and players just kept killing him?say good bye to the RPG part then.
BTW i think the OP,still does not understand that you craft your spells,you can if i remember right only by a tier 2 spell from vendors.Again if my memory serve right ,there is like 5 tiers,then you have a mid range upgrade to spells,witch i think has 2 tiers?or maybe it was 5 again ,hard to remember,then i think after that there is a MASTER's tier of the spell witch is the strongest.
So this guy was probably playing with some pretty weak spells.BTW 4 levels sounds good,but when you hit those levels where the gear has a drastic improvement in stats,that would be like a 8-10 level difference.ALso established players know the maps and game inside out,they would be able to exploit the pVP big time having access to the best gear for that level.
IMO PVP maps should be different from PVE maps,after all you are suppose to design a map for PVP,not just add PVP into the game,witch is what every single game does.Well enough of that anyhow,i hate PVP it' obvious lol.
It seems to me that the poster,actually learned quite a bit about the game,he must have put in some decent time.RMT ruins games anyhow,witch is why i don't miss my old games that i leave much at all,because i know the economy and RMT have already been ruined,this would be a real big factor on a PVP server,i can't see why any legit player would join PVP knowing it is going to be RMT funded.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Stradden truly exemplified a 'real' noobie. Its easy for players who have been around both games to pigeon hole his outline. The guys never played EQ or EQII, he's not going to know the nuances of PvP/PvE, Classes, Races, Spells, Questing, Navigation, Trade Skills, how the Vendor Mode (EQII)/Bazaar (EQ) works or even the Lore (EQ to EQII). I've often wondered what it would be like starting either EQ or EQII as a completely new player.
I know that when EQ went live in 99 I already felt overwhelmed and Kunark was just on the drawing board. I'd be blown away if I started either game today. For me I like every aspect of the game so I'd be playing somewhat similarly (very much as I do with Betas). EQII, I would imagine has enough of the 'Old School' MMORPG feel to it without the harshness of 'Old School' EQ (Risk vs Reward and the much loved Death Penalty).
This article was great, objective and he genuinely came across as a first time player. Back in the day we had some great EQ sites with a wonderful player community where we could get information about the game when we felt lost or over whelmed. Some of those sites or ones similar to them are still around. I hope Stradden will come across them or I'd be happy to point him in the right direction.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I thought the review was pretty good and sums up a NEW players experience well in one of the last lines written. "There were times I was digging the game and others where I was cursing at the computer." That is the experience I think is often presented to new players. The solution should not require people to get mods to fix flaws or needlessly archaic systems in the game. It is surprising how many people in this thread blame the original poster for doing something "wrong" when they were playing the game to the best of their ability using the tools the game presented. What you just read was a brand new players experience and they cannot be wrong for not knowing things that seasoned veterans know. If the only way to avoid the frustration in a game is to surf websites, install mods and all sort of other research and investigation then there is something lacking in the new player experience. Note I am not talking about how to play the game like a pro, but rather a newbie.
Very very true! That is the old "geek versus newbie" syndrom we see here: the system is great, you just have to learn better how to use it! WRONG.
A system should be as easy/natural to get for a NEWBIE that he has little to read/learn from external sources or what. And yes, as a long years EQ2 player and guide-writer who has brought many Newbies (even PC games Newbies) into EQ2 and watch them make their first steps I can say the article is very true. EQ2 is extremly complex and deep and while the tutorial island is pretty well done it is in some areas not enough or outdated the step from the tutorial island to the main land is ... huuuuuuuuuuge. The quality of hand-lending drops tremendously and those characters who start directly on the main land because of their race are in trouble if played by a newbie. I think SOE should have a very focussed look on this crucial step and revamp and add tutorial steps here. They are loosing a lot of player at this point of the gameplay.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ... Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2 Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
They are actually adding a new area for free to be released with the next expansion based in 'Halas' for good classes/races, barbarian town from EQ1. They keep saying its going to be the best newbie experience to date on EQ2. They already have several well made evil ones (darklight wood/Neriak, Gorowyn). The combination of things you picked are arguable the worst, necro starting in freeport on a PvP server. Should really try again, like maybe a shadow knight on a PvE server in Gorowyn.
The game is very casual all the way to the cap unless you want to start raiding, then it does a severe 180. There was content in the game for quite a while that was only killed by one guild in the entire world up until a few weeks ago when they toned it down. Raiding kind of eases you in, maybe first couple of things are tank and spank then you start having to coordinate members better and juggle several raid mechanics on top of trying to kill the mob, failing in one of the mechanics usually means instant raid wipe in this latest expansion.
One thing people seem to forget when calling EQ2 'casual' though is waypoints for quests aren't handed to you, or marked on your map. You actually have to read directions in the quest text and find locations unless you look up the quest one way or another. Of course you could do that since the start of EQ1.
The combination of things you picked are arguable the worst, necro starting in freeport on a PvP server. Should really try again, like maybe a shadow knight on a PvE server in Gorowyn.
This seems to be a very common response to people who have tried the game and did not find it enjoyable. The advice seems to always center around avoiding certain content, downloading some UI fix, endless graphics adjustments or doing something that goes against the natural flow of how the game is presented.
A game shouldn't have wrong choices to make like this. The wrong class, the wrong server, the wrong zone, the wrong settings, etc. A good first experience shouldn't be left to random dumb luck of a few trivial choices players make at character creation. A game should do everything it can to make a great first impression and not rely of people hitting the web to find out how to avoid mistakes made in the first few minutes of the game.
It is far to easy to make a twink that only other twinks can defeat. And you can't enter a dungeon unless your party is so high in level that the dungeon in itself is green because other players are camping in it and the level range is 10 level + there. Just to enter Stormhold demands a full group that have all mobs on green.
A player that have a level 80 will make a twink that has all spells as masters and fabled or mastercrafted gear. Then lock himself on a level like 22 only gaining AA. No player who is new on the server can defeat him without locking his xp and farm for weeks, and even then he will have a hard time getting all the masters.
Not to mentioning someone that is 80 and is mentoring the twink.
Sorry, but while the PvP is far from care bear it sucks badly. People who have a high level char on the same server or buys gold is just having a too great advantage and the class balance sucks. This doesn't really matter in PvE even though some classes arent so popular in raids.
EQ2 have a lot of good things but the PvP servers isn't among them. And I can't see why the OP didn't do the trial where he would be able to start in all citys instead of buying a box, you can get up to lvl 20 in the trial anyways.
The combination of things you picked are arguable the worst, necro starting in freeport on a PvP server. Should really try again, like maybe a shadow knight on a PvE server in Gorowyn.
This seems to be a very common response to people who have tried the game and did not find it enjoyable. The advice seems to always center around avoiding certain content, downloading some UI fix, endless graphics adjustments or doing something that goes against the natural flow of how the game is presented.
A game shouldn't have wrong choices to make like this. The wrong class, the wrong server, the wrong zone, the wrong settings, etc. A good first experience shouldn't be left to random dumb luck of a few trivial choices players make at character creation. A game should do everything it can to make a great first impression and not rely of people hitting the web to find out how to avoid mistakes made in the first few minutes of the game.
Amen to that.
I've played eq2 for 2 weeks and I'm on the fence about continuing my subscription. Where it has fallen short (for me) is in the performance department. I've spent far more time trolling various forums looking for settings tweaks so I run above 15-25 fps than doing fun stuff like exploring AA builds for my inquisitor. The eq2 game engine really baffles me, among the laundry list of settings tweaks I've run into, my most recent one was to turn friggin FONT SMOOTHING off. LOL seriously, I think its a sign that you have a game engine problem when disabling font smoothing in the chat options gives you 5 more average fps.
Please note that I'm not trying to over-run graphical settings. I don't care about ultra refractive real-time particle water and ultra-high memory triple buffer shader shadow blah blah blah. I just want things to be smooth. Thats all. Smooth. And eq2 IS smooth, mostly, until you get a few npc's onto the screen. Then it becomes a slideshow, and no amount of dumbing down the graphics seems to change that. Its distressing. Or like how the textures of the ground in some areas looks damn near photo realistic, with this awesome shiny bump mapped surface... but its attached to a "hill" thats shaped like a block of cheese with a wedge cut out of it. Where were their priorities when they made this thing?
Which brings us to the problem of guild halls. Now I've read some conspiracy theory type stuff about guild halls, and how its suspected that the main purpose they serve is to un-crowd the cities because the game simply can't handle all the traffic in one area. I can't say if this is actually true or not, but if your questing in an area and merrily bouncing along, admiring the nice countryside, and you approach your questhub camp to turn in all your boar spleens and skeleton bones and bear hides, and once you hit the camp your game drops to 25% of your normal framerate and starts hitching and sputtering... its enough to make me believe the conspiracy theorists.
But I digress. Guild halls and newb players (me). Ok, so one cool aspect of an MMO is to see other players. More specifically, as a new player, I think its fun to inspect high level character armor. Its also interesting to see the variety of mounts that the game offers, something you also do by inspecting high level players. Good luck finding a high level player in eq2 to look at as a newb. They're all in their guild halls, doing whatever supercool, high level, high armor, uber mount guildhall-type players do. I was wandering around commonlands and walked past some instance portal, headed down to check it out, and low and behold... there were a bunch of 80's down there, on their mounts, with all their cool end-game crap, and I'm embarrassed to say i got excited. I mean, here were the people I thought I'd see hanging out in the street back in Freeport, but they're crowded up in some hole in the dessert.
So whats the lesson here? I hate to say it, but its the rule that Blizzard knew, the one that Sony I'm sure wish they'd followed, and if they would have, perhaps they'd have a bigger slice of those 12 million WoW subscribers. Don't be vain and try to futureproof the technology in your game at the expense of performance. It will backfire on you!
The combination of things you picked are arguable the worst, necro starting in freeport on a PvP server. Should really try again, like maybe a shadow knight on a PvE server in Gorowyn.
This seems to be a very common response to people who have tried the game and did not find it enjoyable. The advice seems to always center around avoiding certain content, downloading some UI fix, endless graphics adjustments or doing something that goes against the natural flow of how the game is presented.
A game shouldn't have wrong choices to make like this. The wrong class, the wrong server, the wrong zone, the wrong settings, etc. A good first experience shouldn't be left to random dumb luck of a few trivial choices players make at character creation. A game should do everything it can to make a great first impression and not rely of people hitting the web to find out how to avoid mistakes made in the first few minutes of the game.
I don't think you grasp what I am saying, While I agree with you that it should be made better where there really isn't a 'wrong choice' (qeynos/freeport areas updated would be nice) as someone who has played the game for years I really can't think of a way to pick a worse combination of factors. If he just did anything different when it came to class, server or starting area it would have definitely been better. If someone would have asked the worst possible way to start playing EQ2 it would have been exactly what this person did, plus maybe running it on a super low end machine that 'runs WoW fine'. Just really bad luck I guess lol.
As for performance, they did mess up trying to 'future proof' mainly because their idea of what the future tech would be was horribly wrong. Bascially they thought video cards wouldn't advance much and single core processor clock speeds would keep getting higher. Unfortunately what happened was more work was laid on to better video cards and computers use multiple cores at lower speeds to spread the load. So right now (but not for much longer) a single core PC with a high clock speed would run EQ2 the best. LUCKILY they have a update forthcoming that addresses this problem in a huge way. They are updating ALL shaders and moving much more of the load to the video card, you can try it on test. On my newest gaming rid my framerate more than tripled on balanced settings.
If you want to try and see high levels as a newb try and go to commonlands all the way to the west side there is a zone in to one of raiding zones that get used daily. Guilds usually meet up there before going in. (eq2players.com helps too). Also might want to join a 'all are welcome' type guild, usually at least a few on each server.
I don't deny any of the problems you people bring up, not trying to 'explain away' these things just trying to explain it more I guess.
I don't think you grasp what I am saying, While I agree with you that it should be made better where there really isn't a 'wrong choice' (qeynos/freeport areas updated would be nice) as someone who has played the game for years I really can't think of a way to pick a worse combination of factors. If he just did anything different when it came to class, server or starting area it would have definitely been better. If someone would have asked the worst possible way to start playing EQ2 it would have been exactly what this person did, plus maybe running it on a super low end machine that 'runs WoW fine'. Just really bad luck I guess lol.
Exactly what i was saying earlier, what are the chances that this person just came to this game brand new and made the absolute worst of all choices??
If he had just picked a pve server he would have been way better off by, picked neriak even better. Or stayed pvp and picked sk or any other class in the game except fury and still way better.
The choice was so specifically the wrong one its almost suspect. If you did read the forums and searched for the worst possible combination, pvp necro in freeport would have stood out pretty strong. Thats to say, its one of the hardest paths to be successful with. I wouldnt mind doing it because i enjoy the game and the challenge.
Pick another game and I don't think you will see people tell you that your experience was bad due to your choices.
Oh you picked the wrong class, so that is why you had a bad time. Oh you picked the wrong starting area, so that is why you had a bad time. If those things present such a bad first impression they should be fixed or removed. They should not be left as choices that will drive players away from the game.
I can sort of understand the PvP choice not being good, because the pvp sucks, but that was not the factor in what made the game not enjoyable for the original poster. They didn't have a bad time as a result of getting killed or whatever. It was the games overall mechanics that gave the impression.
I'm not sure how that would have changed much on a pve server.
Also I am well aware of the graphics engine mistakes soe made, and no I don't think they did it to future proof the game. They made graphics that could scale well beyond 2004 technology as a way to future proof the game. They didn't remove the GPU from the graphics engine due to lack of faith that graphic cards would get better (that is very incorrect). They removed the use of graphic cards in an attempt to get people with computer below specs to run the game. Those are 2 completely different design choice. (1) future proofing (2) attempting to run the game on low end computers.
It was a stupid choice to try to run the most advanced graphics in the mmo industry on computers without a video card big enough to handle it.
I think this is the first article I completely disagree with.
In fact, I downright dislike it.
I played on Nagafen, I'm assuming that's the server the author also played on.
I'm the definition of a casual gamer. I play a couple of hours or less here and there, I don't think I've played anything more then 15-20 hours a week in a couple of years now. I spend 99% of my time solo.
If WoW is the definition of a casual friendly game, then EQ2 practically plays itself.
I can craft without ever doing a quest. Crafted Items are incredibly usefull, and I can craft anything from food to items that you can put in your house.
Solo quests galour.
Solo mobs everywhere.
Numerous quests that aren't typical MMO fashion. Things like lore, and collections.
Solo dungeons.
Multiple paths of advancement. Harvesting, crafting, class levels, AA's, favor. The amount of stuff you can do to advance your character as a casual, solo player can be overwhelming.
The map shows you who has quests to give, and who you have to turn a quest into.
Guards will tell you were to find an NPC.
The tutorial zone has a tutorial part that explains how to improve your skills. I can only assume that the author missed this part in the tutorial zone. Looking through the broker will also show you that you can purchase skills, looking into crafting will also show you that you can craft skills.
Travelling is cake. You simply use the docks. The bells will take you pretty much every place you need to go, but doesn't remove the need to actually explore.
You have an ability to recall back to your home town, just like hearthing in WoW.
The capital cities are big enough that you can spend an unbelievable amount of time just playing in them. Not just running around, but actually doing quests. There's an insane amount of quests that can be done just in the cities. At the lower levels you can litterally level multiple times just running around your capital city and visiting all the dif. places.
EQ2 is no harder then WoW, and on many levels is considerably easier.
However, it posses considerably more depth and substance that can be a little dishartening for a new player, if they go looking for it. The basics however, are no tougher to learn or play then WoW from level 1 to 20.
If EQ2 isn't casual friendly, then WoW is casual impossible.
Edit: I forgot.
The giant yellow umbilical cord that tells you exactly were to go 90% of the time!
Second edit: I'm just blown away.
WoW is, for the most part, the exact same gameplay as EQ2. You could practically swap out the graphics and people playing WoW would barely even notice someone changed the game on them. I simply don't understand how anyone could say that EQ2 isn't casual friendly, when EVERYONE thinks WoW is the posterchild for how to make a casual friendly MMO.
Being a causual friendly game doesn't mean that everyone should know everything about the game in the first week or two of playing, that's called a shallow game. Casual friendly just means that you can advance at a rate that doesn't require you to spend every waking minute playing, in otherwords, you can advance with just a few hours here and there.
I had to turn combat XP off cause the leveling was to fast!!!!!
The tutorial gets you to 10 in just a couple hours! It takes about as much work to get to 20 when you leave the tutorial zone!
If those things present such a bad first impression they should be fixed or removed. They should not be left as choices that will drive players away from the game.
Just for the sake of discussion, alot of people like that class and want to play it because they know the game and enjoy the role that class has in raids and groups. But the sophistication level requires some experience and understanding. If you remove that from the game, you punish the experienced players -> the loyal players <- in favor of attracting people who dont spend the time to research the game, read the forums, participate in the community, to find out how the game is played.
I understand your point if this were a permanent, never changing ps3 or xbox release. But its a changing, fluid, mmo experience that exists beyond the game world and includes a big collection of official and unofficial websites. The game will change here and there, and the web coverage continues. This is what brings alot of us into the mmo experience vs the single player static experience of a simple console game. Why would you punish us to favor those who maybe just arent as interested in the mmo genre?
Seriously, other than the first item, you view these as cons? Thank Lucan there are a few games out there that still have some complexity to them! (And, for the record, EQ2 is not that hard).
If those things present such a bad first impression they should be fixed or removed. They should not be left as choices that will drive players away from the game.
Just for the sake of discussion, alot of people like that class and want to play it because they know the game and enjoy the role that class has in raids and groups. But the sophistication level requires some experience and understanding. If you remove that from the game, you punish the experienced players -> the loyal players <- in favor of attracting people who dont spend the time to research the game, read the forums, participate in the community, to find out how the game is played.
I understand your point if this were a permanent, never changing ps3 or xbox release. But its a changing, fluid, mmo experience that exists beyond the game world and includes a big collection of official and unofficial websites. The game will change here and there, and the web coverage continues. This is what brings alot of us into the mmo experience vs the single player static experience of a simple console game. Why would you punish us to favor those who maybe just arent as interested in the mmo genre?
For the record, I don't think picking the wrong class or the wrong zone will make or break someones experience with EQ2 at the start and it more of an excuse players use to address those who do not find the game enjoyable.
I just think EQ2 does not do a good job of making a first impression for many reasons. Some classes might be easier and some of the later zones are better than the original, but overall EQ2 struggles to pull in new players, because it doesn't make a great first impression.
If the honest answer to new player issues is that they need to scour the internet and research for answers to the entry level aspects of the game to make it enjoyable, then i think it is pretty clear that the game struggles to make a good first impression.
So in short, I do not think the original poster would have had a much different experience if they played a shadow knight in a different starting zone.
Seriously, other than the first item, you view these as cons? Thank Lucan there are a few games out there that still have some complexity to them! (And, for the record, EQ2 is not that hard).
WTF!
I didn't even notice it when I read the article.
How the hell can innovative gameplay be a con?
Isn't that like the biggest thing people keep complaining about within the genre?
"Were's the innovation?"
Since when has being innovative been a con?
Something else that slipped by me.
One of the pros listed is,
Lots of content!
Then they listed,
To much to learn!
As a con.
How can you have lots of content as a pro, but having to learn as a con. If having to learn about the content, and quests aren't the only form of content, is a con then lots of content is a con. You can't praise a game for having lots to it, but give it bad marks for having to learn what that content is or how to play it.
I do wonder when people say that the graphics are lacking in this game. To run this game on high quality takes a good graphics card. That is the way it should be. And I am one to enjoy good graphics or I won't play the game. I think for its age it was a pretty looking game. In the quest log it tells you where to go for thequests. Is a noob too dumb to look at the quest log? Yes it takes some "thinking" to learn EQ2 and get used to the regions but it is not rocket science. I am note thate smirt end it makes me laff dat uder peeple struggle to play dis game. I think it may be that people with no patience have a hard time with this game. I play WOW also so I know the difference. WOW = no brains. EQ2 = have to think. Just the way i feel. Ciao.
Yeah I don't get this review. EQ2 for me is one of the most casual friendly game in the market. I also don't know why you would pick a pvp server to REVIEW THIS PVE BASED GAME! Sorry but I can hire my 12 year old nephew and he can write a better review...
It's been 5 years since I started playing EQII and a few since I stopped - my character is still there in limbo, and I'm going to give it another try over the Thanksgiving weekend. I always liked the game, just got playing a lot of other titles and haven't thought to go back until now.
Comments
I would think if anything ,this proves how bad PVP is in the RPG genre.It took away this players ability to think,enjoy,explore without being badgered by people that had nothing better to do than kill him.Really there is imo no purpose to designing a game or map,if all players do is V-line towards other players to kill them.Imagine if the OP just wanted to spend some time harvesting and players just kept killing him?say good bye to the RPG part then.
BTW i think the OP,still does not understand that you craft your spells,you can if i remember right only by a tier 2 spell from vendors.Again if my memory serve right ,there is like 5 tiers,then you have a mid range upgrade to spells,witch i think has 2 tiers?or maybe it was 5 again ,hard to remember,then i think after that there is a MASTER's tier of the spell witch is the strongest.
So this guy was probably playing with some pretty weak spells.BTW 4 levels sounds good,but when you hit those levels where the gear has a drastic improvement in stats,that would be like a 8-10 level difference.ALso established players know the maps and game inside out,they would be able to exploit the pVP big time having access to the best gear for that level.
IMO PVP maps should be different from PVE maps,after all you are suppose to design a map for PVP,not just add PVP into the game,witch is what every single game does.Well enough of that anyhow,i hate PVP it' obvious lol.
It seems to me that the poster,actually learned quite a bit about the game,he must have put in some decent time.RMT ruins games anyhow,witch is why i don't miss my old games that i leave much at all,because i know the economy and RMT have already been ruined,this would be a real big factor on a PVP server,i can't see why any legit player would join PVP knowing it is going to be RMT funded.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Stradden truly exemplified a 'real' noobie. Its easy for players who have been around both games to pigeon hole his outline. The guys never played EQ or EQII, he's not going to know the nuances of PvP/PvE, Classes, Races, Spells, Questing, Navigation, Trade Skills, how the Vendor Mode (EQII)/Bazaar (EQ) works or even the Lore (EQ to EQII). I've often wondered what it would be like starting either EQ or EQII as a completely new player.
I know that when EQ went live in 99 I already felt overwhelmed and Kunark was just on the drawing board. I'd be blown away if I started either game today. For me I like every aspect of the game so I'd be playing somewhat similarly (very much as I do with Betas). EQII, I would imagine has enough of the 'Old School' MMORPG feel to it without the harshness of 'Old School' EQ (Risk vs Reward and the much loved Death Penalty).
This article was great, objective and he genuinely came across as a first time player. Back in the day we had some great EQ sites with a wonderful player community where we could get information about the game when we felt lost or over whelmed. Some of those sites or ones similar to them are still around. I hope Stradden will come across them or I'd be happy to point him in the right direction.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I thought the review was pretty good and sums up a NEW players experience well in one of the last lines written. "There were times I was digging the game and others where I was cursing at the computer." That is the experience I think is often presented to new players. The solution should not require people to get mods to fix flaws or needlessly archaic systems in the game. It is surprising how many people in this thread blame the original poster for doing something "wrong" when they were playing the game to the best of their ability using the tools the game presented. What you just read was a brand new players experience and they cannot be wrong for not knowing things that seasoned veterans know. If the only way to avoid the frustration in a game is to surf websites, install mods and all sort of other research and investigation then there is something lacking in the new player experience. Note I am not talking about how to play the game like a pro, but rather a newbie.
Very very true! That is the old "geek versus newbie" syndrom we see here: the system is great, you just have to learn better how to use it! WRONG.
A system should be as easy/natural to get for a NEWBIE that he has little to read/learn from external sources or what. And yes, as a long years EQ2 player and guide-writer who has brought many Newbies (even PC games Newbies) into EQ2 and watch them make their first steps I can say the article is very true. EQ2 is extremly complex and deep and while the tutorial island is pretty well done it is in some areas not enough or outdated the step from the tutorial island to the main land is ... huuuuuuuuuuge. The quality of hand-lending drops tremendously and those characters who start directly on the main land because of their race are in trouble if played by a newbie. I think SOE should have a very focussed look on this crucial step and revamp and add tutorial steps here. They are loosing a lot of player at this point of the gameplay.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
They are actually adding a new area for free to be released with the next expansion based in 'Halas' for good classes/races, barbarian town from EQ1. They keep saying its going to be the best newbie experience to date on EQ2. They already have several well made evil ones (darklight wood/Neriak, Gorowyn). The combination of things you picked are arguable the worst, necro starting in freeport on a PvP server. Should really try again, like maybe a shadow knight on a PvE server in Gorowyn.
The game is very casual all the way to the cap unless you want to start raiding, then it does a severe 180. There was content in the game for quite a while that was only killed by one guild in the entire world up until a few weeks ago when they toned it down. Raiding kind of eases you in, maybe first couple of things are tank and spank then you start having to coordinate members better and juggle several raid mechanics on top of trying to kill the mob, failing in one of the mechanics usually means instant raid wipe in this latest expansion.
One thing people seem to forget when calling EQ2 'casual' though is waypoints for quests aren't handed to you, or marked on your map. You actually have to read directions in the quest text and find locations unless you look up the quest one way or another. Of course you could do that since the start of EQ1.
This seems to be a very common response to people who have tried the game and did not find it enjoyable. The advice seems to always center around avoiding certain content, downloading some UI fix, endless graphics adjustments or doing something that goes against the natural flow of how the game is presented.
A game shouldn't have wrong choices to make like this. The wrong class, the wrong server, the wrong zone, the wrong settings, etc. A good first experience shouldn't be left to random dumb luck of a few trivial choices players make at character creation. A game should do everything it can to make a great first impression and not rely of people hitting the web to find out how to avoid mistakes made in the first few minutes of the game.
I play EQ2 but the PvP isn't excellent.
It is far to easy to make a twink that only other twinks can defeat. And you can't enter a dungeon unless your party is so high in level that the dungeon in itself is green because other players are camping in it and the level range is 10 level + there. Just to enter Stormhold demands a full group that have all mobs on green.
A player that have a level 80 will make a twink that has all spells as masters and fabled or mastercrafted gear. Then lock himself on a level like 22 only gaining AA. No player who is new on the server can defeat him without locking his xp and farm for weeks, and even then he will have a hard time getting all the masters.
Not to mentioning someone that is 80 and is mentoring the twink.
Sorry, but while the PvP is far from care bear it sucks badly. People who have a high level char on the same server or buys gold is just having a too great advantage and the class balance sucks. This doesn't really matter in PvE even though some classes arent so popular in raids.
EQ2 have a lot of good things but the PvP servers isn't among them. And I can't see why the OP didn't do the trial where he would be able to start in all citys instead of buying a box, you can get up to lvl 20 in the trial anyways.
EQ2s biggest + is the massive content.
This seems to be a very common response to people who have tried the game and did not find it enjoyable. The advice seems to always center around avoiding certain content, downloading some UI fix, endless graphics adjustments or doing something that goes against the natural flow of how the game is presented.
A game shouldn't have wrong choices to make like this. The wrong class, the wrong server, the wrong zone, the wrong settings, etc. A good first experience shouldn't be left to random dumb luck of a few trivial choices players make at character creation. A game should do everything it can to make a great first impression and not rely of people hitting the web to find out how to avoid mistakes made in the first few minutes of the game.
Amen to that.
I've played eq2 for 2 weeks and I'm on the fence about continuing my subscription. Where it has fallen short (for me) is in the performance department. I've spent far more time trolling various forums looking for settings tweaks so I run above 15-25 fps than doing fun stuff like exploring AA builds for my inquisitor. The eq2 game engine really baffles me, among the laundry list of settings tweaks I've run into, my most recent one was to turn friggin FONT SMOOTHING off. LOL seriously, I think its a sign that you have a game engine problem when disabling font smoothing in the chat options gives you 5 more average fps.
Please note that I'm not trying to over-run graphical settings. I don't care about ultra refractive real-time particle water and ultra-high memory triple buffer shader shadow blah blah blah. I just want things to be smooth. Thats all. Smooth. And eq2 IS smooth, mostly, until you get a few npc's onto the screen. Then it becomes a slideshow, and no amount of dumbing down the graphics seems to change that. Its distressing. Or like how the textures of the ground in some areas looks damn near photo realistic, with this awesome shiny bump mapped surface... but its attached to a "hill" thats shaped like a block of cheese with a wedge cut out of it. Where were their priorities when they made this thing?
Which brings us to the problem of guild halls. Now I've read some conspiracy theory type stuff about guild halls, and how its suspected that the main purpose they serve is to un-crowd the cities because the game simply can't handle all the traffic in one area. I can't say if this is actually true or not, but if your questing in an area and merrily bouncing along, admiring the nice countryside, and you approach your questhub camp to turn in all your boar spleens and skeleton bones and bear hides, and once you hit the camp your game drops to 25% of your normal framerate and starts hitching and sputtering... its enough to make me believe the conspiracy theorists.
But I digress. Guild halls and newb players (me). Ok, so one cool aspect of an MMO is to see other players. More specifically, as a new player, I think its fun to inspect high level character armor. Its also interesting to see the variety of mounts that the game offers, something you also do by inspecting high level players. Good luck finding a high level player in eq2 to look at as a newb. They're all in their guild halls, doing whatever supercool, high level, high armor, uber mount guildhall-type players do. I was wandering around commonlands and walked past some instance portal, headed down to check it out, and low and behold... there were a bunch of 80's down there, on their mounts, with all their cool end-game crap, and I'm embarrassed to say i got excited. I mean, here were the people I thought I'd see hanging out in the street back in Freeport, but they're crowded up in some hole in the dessert.
So whats the lesson here? I hate to say it, but its the rule that Blizzard knew, the one that Sony I'm sure wish they'd followed, and if they would have, perhaps they'd have a bigger slice of those 12 million WoW subscribers. Don't be vain and try to futureproof the technology in your game at the expense of performance. It will backfire on you!
stuff and things
This seems to be a very common response to people who have tried the game and did not find it enjoyable. The advice seems to always center around avoiding certain content, downloading some UI fix, endless graphics adjustments or doing something that goes against the natural flow of how the game is presented.
A game shouldn't have wrong choices to make like this. The wrong class, the wrong server, the wrong zone, the wrong settings, etc. A good first experience shouldn't be left to random dumb luck of a few trivial choices players make at character creation. A game should do everything it can to make a great first impression and not rely of people hitting the web to find out how to avoid mistakes made in the first few minutes of the game.
I don't think you grasp what I am saying, While I agree with you that it should be made better where there really isn't a 'wrong choice' (qeynos/freeport areas updated would be nice) as someone who has played the game for years I really can't think of a way to pick a worse combination of factors. If he just did anything different when it came to class, server or starting area it would have definitely been better. If someone would have asked the worst possible way to start playing EQ2 it would have been exactly what this person did, plus maybe running it on a super low end machine that 'runs WoW fine'. Just really bad luck I guess lol.
As for performance, they did mess up trying to 'future proof' mainly because their idea of what the future tech would be was horribly wrong. Bascially they thought video cards wouldn't advance much and single core processor clock speeds would keep getting higher. Unfortunately what happened was more work was laid on to better video cards and computers use multiple cores at lower speeds to spread the load. So right now (but not for much longer) a single core PC with a high clock speed would run EQ2 the best. LUCKILY they have a update forthcoming that addresses this problem in a huge way. They are updating ALL shaders and moving much more of the load to the video card, you can try it on test. On my newest gaming rid my framerate more than tripled on balanced settings.
If you want to try and see high levels as a newb try and go to commonlands all the way to the west side there is a zone in to one of raiding zones that get used daily. Guilds usually meet up there before going in. (eq2players.com helps too). Also might want to join a 'all are welcome' type guild, usually at least a few on each server.
I don't deny any of the problems you people bring up, not trying to 'explain away' these things just trying to explain it more I guess.
Exactly what i was saying earlier, what are the chances that this person just came to this game brand new and made the absolute worst of all choices??
If he had just picked a pve server he would have been way better off by, picked neriak even better. Or stayed pvp and picked sk or any other class in the game except fury and still way better.
The choice was so specifically the wrong one its almost suspect. If you did read the forums and searched for the worst possible combination, pvp necro in freeport would have stood out pretty strong. Thats to say, its one of the hardest paths to be successful with. I wouldnt mind doing it because i enjoy the game and the challenge.
Are we sure this wasnt done intentionally?
I think my point was missed.
Pick another game and I don't think you will see people tell you that your experience was bad due to your choices.
Oh you picked the wrong class, so that is why you had a bad time. Oh you picked the wrong starting area, so that is why you had a bad time. If those things present such a bad first impression they should be fixed or removed. They should not be left as choices that will drive players away from the game.
I can sort of understand the PvP choice not being good, because the pvp sucks, but that was not the factor in what made the game not enjoyable for the original poster. They didn't have a bad time as a result of getting killed or whatever. It was the games overall mechanics that gave the impression.
I'm not sure how that would have changed much on a pve server.
Also I am well aware of the graphics engine mistakes soe made, and no I don't think they did it to future proof the game. They made graphics that could scale well beyond 2004 technology as a way to future proof the game. They didn't remove the GPU from the graphics engine due to lack of faith that graphic cards would get better (that is very incorrect). They removed the use of graphic cards in an attempt to get people with computer below specs to run the game. Those are 2 completely different design choice. (1) future proofing (2) attempting to run the game on low end computers.
It was a stupid choice to try to run the most advanced graphics in the mmo industry on computers without a video card big enough to handle it.
I think this is the first article I completely disagree with.
In fact, I downright dislike it.
I played on Nagafen, I'm assuming that's the server the author also played on.
I'm the definition of a casual gamer. I play a couple of hours or less here and there, I don't think I've played anything more then 15-20 hours a week in a couple of years now. I spend 99% of my time solo.
If WoW is the definition of a casual friendly game, then EQ2 practically plays itself.
I can craft without ever doing a quest. Crafted Items are incredibly usefull, and I can craft anything from food to items that you can put in your house.
Solo quests galour.
Solo mobs everywhere.
Numerous quests that aren't typical MMO fashion. Things like lore, and collections.
Solo dungeons.
Multiple paths of advancement. Harvesting, crafting, class levels, AA's, favor. The amount of stuff you can do to advance your character as a casual, solo player can be overwhelming.
The map shows you who has quests to give, and who you have to turn a quest into.
Guards will tell you were to find an NPC.
The tutorial zone has a tutorial part that explains how to improve your skills. I can only assume that the author missed this part in the tutorial zone. Looking through the broker will also show you that you can purchase skills, looking into crafting will also show you that you can craft skills.
Travelling is cake. You simply use the docks. The bells will take you pretty much every place you need to go, but doesn't remove the need to actually explore.
You have an ability to recall back to your home town, just like hearthing in WoW.
The capital cities are big enough that you can spend an unbelievable amount of time just playing in them. Not just running around, but actually doing quests. There's an insane amount of quests that can be done just in the cities. At the lower levels you can litterally level multiple times just running around your capital city and visiting all the dif. places.
EQ2 is no harder then WoW, and on many levels is considerably easier.
However, it posses considerably more depth and substance that can be a little dishartening for a new player, if they go looking for it. The basics however, are no tougher to learn or play then WoW from level 1 to 20.
If EQ2 isn't casual friendly, then WoW is casual impossible.
Edit: I forgot.
The giant yellow umbilical cord that tells you exactly were to go 90% of the time!
Second edit: I'm just blown away.
WoW is, for the most part, the exact same gameplay as EQ2. You could practically swap out the graphics and people playing WoW would barely even notice someone changed the game on them. I simply don't understand how anyone could say that EQ2 isn't casual friendly, when EVERYONE thinks WoW is the posterchild for how to make a casual friendly MMO.
Being a causual friendly game doesn't mean that everyone should know everything about the game in the first week or two of playing, that's called a shallow game. Casual friendly just means that you can advance at a rate that doesn't require you to spend every waking minute playing, in otherwords, you can advance with just a few hours here and there.
I had to turn combat XP off cause the leveling was to fast!!!!!
The tutorial gets you to 10 in just a couple hours! It takes about as much work to get to 20 when you leave the tutorial zone!
Just for the sake of discussion, alot of people like that class and want to play it because they know the game and enjoy the role that class has in raids and groups. But the sophistication level requires some experience and understanding. If you remove that from the game, you punish the experienced players -> the loyal players <- in favor of attracting people who dont spend the time to research the game, read the forums, participate in the community, to find out how the game is played.
I understand your point if this were a permanent, never changing ps3 or xbox release. But its a changing, fluid, mmo experience that exists beyond the game world and includes a big collection of official and unofficial websites. The game will change here and there, and the web coverage continues. This is what brings alot of us into the mmo experience vs the single player static experience of a simple console game. Why would you punish us to favor those who maybe just arent as interested in the mmo genre?
Cons
Can get repetitive
Not Casual Friendly
So much to learn
Innovative Gameplay
Seriously, other than the first item, you view these as cons? Thank Lucan there are a few games out there that still have some complexity to them! (And, for the record, EQ2 is not that hard).
Just for the sake of discussion, alot of people like that class and want to play it because they know the game and enjoy the role that class has in raids and groups. But the sophistication level requires some experience and understanding. If you remove that from the game, you punish the experienced players -> the loyal players <- in favor of attracting people who dont spend the time to research the game, read the forums, participate in the community, to find out how the game is played.
I understand your point if this were a permanent, never changing ps3 or xbox release. But its a changing, fluid, mmo experience that exists beyond the game world and includes a big collection of official and unofficial websites. The game will change here and there, and the web coverage continues. This is what brings alot of us into the mmo experience vs the single player static experience of a simple console game. Why would you punish us to favor those who maybe just arent as interested in the mmo genre?
For the record, I don't think picking the wrong class or the wrong zone will make or break someones experience with EQ2 at the start and it more of an excuse players use to address those who do not find the game enjoyable.
I just think EQ2 does not do a good job of making a first impression for many reasons. Some classes might be easier and some of the later zones are better than the original, but overall EQ2 struggles to pull in new players, because it doesn't make a great first impression.
If the honest answer to new player issues is that they need to scour the internet and research for answers to the entry level aspects of the game to make it enjoyable, then i think it is pretty clear that the game struggles to make a good first impression.
So in short, I do not think the original poster would have had a much different experience if they played a shadow knight in a different starting zone.
EQ2 is the new hardcore. ROFL.
This is what we get for letting stupid people on the Internet. Thanks AOL!
/me goes back to playing his MUD
WTF!
I didn't even notice it when I read the article.
How the hell can innovative gameplay be a con?
Isn't that like the biggest thing people keep complaining about within the genre?
"Were's the innovation?"
Since when has being innovative been a con?
Something else that slipped by me.
One of the pros listed is,
Lots of content!
Then they listed,
To much to learn!
As a con.
How can you have lots of content as a pro, but having to learn as a con. If having to learn about the content, and quests aren't the only form of content, is a con then lots of content is a con. You can't praise a game for having lots to it, but give it bad marks for having to learn what that content is or how to play it.
Horrible, horrible article guys.
I do wonder when people say that the graphics are lacking in this game. To run this game on high quality takes a good graphics card. That is the way it should be. And I am one to enjoy good graphics or I won't play the game. I think for its age it was a pretty looking game. In the quest log it tells you where to go for thequests. Is a noob too dumb to look at the quest log? Yes it takes some "thinking" to learn EQ2 and get used to the regions but it is not rocket science. I am note thate smirt end it makes me laff dat uder peeple struggle to play dis game. I think it may be that people with no patience have a hard time with this game. I play WOW also so I know the difference. WOW = no brains. EQ2 = have to think. Just the way i feel. Ciao.
Yeah I don't get this review. EQ2 for me is one of the most casual friendly game in the market. I also don't know why you would pick a pvp server to REVIEW THIS PVE BASED GAME! Sorry but I can hire my 12 year old nephew and he can write a better review...
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It's been 5 years since I started playing EQII and a few since I stopped - my character is still there in limbo, and I'm going to give it another try over the Thanksgiving weekend. I always liked the game, just got playing a lot of other titles and haven't thought to go back until now.