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I find it hard that "most" players care about the MMO lore
chrisel
Member UncommonPosts: 990
Seriously.
I am starting to become an "old" man, and I have played many MMO's since the release of Anarchy Online. This means almost 10 years of hardcore MMO gaming. In these years I have still to meet someone who cares about the lore. I have many friends who plays MMO's, and none of them, including my sons, my sister & her boyfriend, friends at my job etc etc cares about the lore.
Reason I bring up this subject, is that recently many, or even most MMO's, has increased focus on its lore, and want their players to have a more including part of it. I find this quite surprising, as this is not what me nor any I know would want an MMO to focus on. Am I just a weird odd statistic with same odd statistical friends? Cause the lore has NEVER been a topic when we have discussed the different MMO's we played.
How come the game producers has started to focus on lore, when I feel most of us just give a damn about it anyway...?
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Comments
I'm 54. I've been playing computer games since the era of Winchester Drives on main frame computers. The story of a game keeps me interested in the game. I don't kill 10 rats to get XP. I kill 10 rats because the widow asked me to help her.
It's a matter of your "circle" of friends. If you spent alot of time on this site or any other MMO fansite you wouldn't be asking the question. Sure, there are alot of people like you that don't care, I'm not saying there isn't. There are also alot of people who do read the quests and when a game's mechanics permit those players even create their own stories using the lore the devs have written, incorporating into player driven plots and content.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
If an rpg doesn't have good lore or story, I generaly don't play it for very long.
I've not got the experience you guys do when it comes to MMOs. My personal story is thus:
My first MMO was WoW. Although I was playing Guild Wars before that, and I really did like the story, I don't want to get into GW as an MMO, since it really isn't. In any case, with WoW, the lore was boiled down to Warcraft III, which I never really liked, and the page of text that precursed the quests. In the beginning, I cared about the people's plights, but after a while, every plight and request was boiled down to the same thing, and I stopped caring, opting to simply click 'accept quest' and look at what I had to kill or who I had to run to. At that point, the lore was meaningless. All the other MMOs I played had this problem too. The lore just didn't mean anything to me.
The problem is the lack of immersion in the lore. In Fallen Earth for instance, I think they did a great job immersing you in the story, because right off the bat it's all about you and how you're immortal, yet dying. The tutorial drew me in, and now I read all the story specific lore quests. Yet for all that, I still skip through most of the text in the quests because they're the same thing as in WoW, a huge precurser to kill 10 of X or talk to Y.
I'm 26 and I've been playing mmos since around the time WoW came out and have been an avid gamer since I got my NES in 88'. Personally I don't care to overly read up on the lore of my MMO. I'll read the lore section of the website a little but ultimately I'd prefer the game's lore to be presented in the actual game with cutscenes. Indirectly learning about the lore as you go through the game is nice. Guess I like to unfold like a story and not some dry "lore" that I have to go research. Too bad there aren't a ton of MMO's out that do a good job of presenting story like I acually like. Maybe I should stick with single player RPGs lol.
There is also a difference between caring about the lore of an MMO and enjoying the lore.
Some people only need a brief backstory of an MMO world to get into the game, the rest of the story they like to fill in as they go.
Other people enjoy game lore like readers enjoy a good book. They get involved in the lore and want to see where the story will lead them.
Then you have the 'OMG Gimme now!' crowd who has no idea what lore is, why the NPCs tell you about themselves or why they are even asking you to kill 10 (insert mob name here). All they see is levels, numbers and loot colors. They race all the way to the end and sit there scratching their heads wondering what to do now. They usually quit after the first 30 days and move to the next game.
But in most cases, almost all players depend on the lore of a game. Imagine a game where you walked up to an NPC for a quest and all he said was 'Kill 10 Rats'. Nothing else, just the kill rats. Once that part of the quest is done he tells you to 'See Sally, she has a quest for you'. Now you get to Sally and she says 'Kill Giant Troll in the cave'. Sure, you might put up with it for a while, and it might seem better than havng to read a paragraph or two of quest text, but after about 3 levels of this you would think to yourself "I dont get it... Why am I bored?".
Lore adds the rumors and the back story that helps drive a game world. You dont have to follow and some people dont. But its there if you want it and adds a bit more to the game.
But also, lore can be game specific. If you were to say something like 'Most people in a Star Wars MMO dont care about the lore, you would be mistaken. If it wasnt for the lore (yes, the movies are part of that lore) people would have no desire to play it.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Some games lend themselves to the lore better than others.
Vendetta Online - yes it has a backstory, but it's not something that really matters. AoC - Pretty much the same. For those types you just play. But .....
If a game is suppose to have a backstory to it (and it's good writing), then I'll try to conform because for me a good plot line can make up for alot.
An example would be SWG. I played an Imperial. Not a cartoon thug, but as one that believed keeping order would aid the galaxey. In my mind I was the 'good guy' and the rebels were the 'bad guys'. Just an average Joe Schmoe trying to do his job. Alot of the mission quests were mini-plots and I'd try to run them the same way.
LoTRO - Whole lot of lore and backstory there. You actually miss out on alot of the game if you just play it as a hack and slash game.
It could be the types of games you're playing. Pvp, Hack and Slash etc.... just might not lend themselves well to plots, where RPG do.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
I have to say I love it!
What I really enjoy is reading the books too. EVE, Conan, LoTRO, WoW and even WAR are vastly improved when you've read novels etc. Little things in the quest text that other players just scoll over or ignore really start to make sense
I found out that really no one reads quest text just a couple of years back when playing wow...I swear i thought people loved this stuff and really was the most important part of the game and what made you wanna play more, maybe it was because i always played games with a great story but yeh i was literally very surprised when i found out. For me i really never miss any quest text, maybe on a odd day when my head hurts and i dont wanna read but yeh you get my point, its immersive and gives my playing a point. One of the best stories in my opinion was of Atlantica MMO wise, from the begining you know what your purpose is and who your character is, literally loved everything and how it was all still fitting perfectly for over 100 lvls. Lore wise i think wow gets a thumbs up, its really well done but it isnt implemented in the game as good as it could have, which means more dynamic and involving quests lore wise etc.
I haven't been playing MMOs nearly as long as you guys have. My first was Final Fantasy XI and I have to say the story is the thing that made that game as great as it is. When ever a new expansion or more story missions were added I always wanted to jump into the game and be the first to do them to get the next chapter in the story. The other MMOs have have played over the years it always felt like I was just killing 10 orcs or find five wolf hearts just because, but with FFXI I felt like I was doing ti for the progression of the story. I didn't care about getting the next shiney to come out or kill the next hardest boss, I just wanted to advance the story.
In some way i agree, I love the lore of a game myself...And the best game i have seen put that lore across is GW (due to instance heavy and the cut scenes) but other then that i believe The "story" focused MMO can not stand that long. The main reason (if not only reason) is that the players are having fun and are "into" the game.
I believe that DEVs look at the great singleplayer RPGs of late (Dragon Age Mass Effect) and those of past times (Buladurs Gate Bard's tale) and see that these are heavy in Story, with a lot for a player to learn and explore.
Why I believe Story driven MMOs will not do too well is from a few reasons.
1. Most players now-a-days do not care. They do not want to sit and read text because the mind set for most players are simply to get to max level or just to max out their play time with only productive measures, and enjoying yourself is simply not productive to them
2. The limit of replays one person can get out of a game due to heavy story. Now this i may have to explain, It is rare for me to replay an RPG, why? Well because i know the main points of the story will be the same. Sure I may see a new character who might be cool, or I could get different armor or even be a bad guy instead of good, but I will always know that X castle will be under attack after Y event or that X person will give me Y reward if I am nice to person Z.
The simple changes are not enough for a whole new story. I don't think i will replay Dragon Age after I finish with my Warrior, I might do the Orgin Stories but I may not (as MW2 will take a lot of my time )
3. If the story flurishes then the Game's simple processes and normal functions may not. Single player RPGs you don't see ths because you are the only non NPC person, therefore the Game will focus around you and not have to deal with the 1000s of other people. This is my fear for SW:TOR due to the lack of info they have realeased about the main points of the game. "
"We get it you have story but show us some crafting, or PVP or Raids or Mounts or grouping or ANYTHING" but no we get this story fluff which we all know Bioware can do wonderfully, but they need to show us something real.
4. In an MMOs you have interaction, but the stories have to be different for everyone or at least in different parts, which can kill any RP there might be.
But hell these are just my fears that I thought about kind of on the spot. I know story takes an important place in MMOs and I hope companies can start to pull it off , but i simply don't know.
It depends on how much text there is.
Some quest scripters get a wee bit carried away and write novellas when it could easily be summed up in a paragraph or two.
And back at WoWs launch we were stuck with the ever-freaking-slow quest text scroll. It was like trying to read what someone was typing using 1 finger to type. After a while you just got tired of waiting for the NPC to finish and chatted until he was done and 'Accept' became availible.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I don't really like being hit with three paragraphs of text because someone needs 10 wolf pelts to make it through the winter, but I do like a world that displays unique story and cultural elements. Usually, all you get is something like Trevon = France, Briton = England, and Shintu = Japan, along with some fantasy staples lifted almost word for word from Tolkien. Oh, wow, how imaginative! Did you think of that all by yourself Mr. Game Designer? One of my pet peeves is if you are making a pointy eared race that lives in the forest and is good at magic and archery and then they call it something like a Sylvain or a Feywrd. You aren't fooling anyone... that's just a generic elf. The really sneaky ones will add something implausible to a standard concept and think they have improved it, like adding a cursed bloodline or an incurable rash.
I'm 'only' 34, but I am the same way.
It could be that this defines the difference between gamers that enjoy PvE for what it is, and gamers that do PvE just to get the end result. Personally, I really enjoy PvE. I enjoy reading the quests and doing said quests for the reasons behind them, not just for the end result.
Hell, I actually spend time researching the lore behind some games on the internet. This is precisely the reason that you can even *find* some websites dedicated to the lore.
While the OP may not interact with the type of people that care about the lore, other people do (including me).
Neither way is "right" or "wrong" of course, just preference.
Acidon
During my time playing World of Warcraft, I was very much into the lore of the game. Blizzard successfully emerged its users in the storyline through questing. They made those scripts and storylines important to the player and forced them to read for details, hints, and tips involving quests. However, their are way too many MMO's out there that have a lore but do not actively follow them outside of the development process.
An example of this would be SOE's Planetside, and Aventurine's Darkfall Online.
Regardless if the lore is important to the gameplay, it is at least important to the developers.
It depends on how much text there is.
Some quest scripters get a wee bit carried away and write novellas when it could easily be summed up in a paragraph or two.
And back at WoWs launch we were stuck with the ever-freaking-slow quest text scroll. It was like trying to read what someone was typing using 1 finger to type. After a while you just got tired of waiting for the NPC to finish and chatted until he was done and 'Accept' became availible.
This reminds me actually. I read an article once where the World of Warcraft developers were explaining how they often got carried away while writing the scripts for the quests. In fact, I think it was quoted, "Quest writers are not novelists, stop writing books" or something along those lines. I agree, if you can get a point across with a few short lines, do it. Don't write a linear novel that users have absolutely no interaction with.
I've been playing mmo's for 93242 years and thats makes me a hardcore gamer........everyone that stated how long they been gaming I have some facts for you.
1. Noone cares how long you've been gaming
2. Quantity does not equal quality (just because you've been playing x amount of years doesn't make you a hardcore gamer).
So MMO "vets" your opinions are no more valuable then a teen wow kid.
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
I find it hard to believe that someone could like something that I don't like... that's just not possible!
I brought up how long I've played as a counter point of the original poster attempted to give his opinion greater weight due to his extended play experience not because I care to let you know how long I've played.
Yes. Lore, roleplaying, and community have gone to the wayside. Make way for the action gear grind.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
My personal opinion is that a lot of people don't really care about MMO lore because the main story line does not directly involve them. In most MMOs you're just a grunt, one amongst thousands. Granted, there will always be individuals who are interested in the lore but the majority will just want to kill things and get loot.
When games like UO were around, the players were given tools to create their own stories and as such, roleplaying was more common.
Single player games are much better at this because the game world and story revolves around you and changes with you. The lore draws you in because you're a major part of it.
Lore, to me, is what makes a game fun. What I have loved about single player RPGs, is that it is a book basically, that you are the actually person it is about, acting it out. It's not, lol kill x amount of this thing to get level 30.
LotRO is a story based game. All the quests are deep into the lore, as well as the main epic questline that is known to many. Sure, I might be killing X amount of this thing, but I am doing it for terms in relation to the story.
In wow, there were very few quests when the game first came out that made me say, ooo this is similar to Warcraft 3. But the game had a real feel, at first of it. It went the total opposite direction in BC, with no real feel for WC3, nor quests. With WoTLK, I felt that the quests, looks, instances, lore all seemed to really say this is much closer to the lore and story.
Anyways, I love reading books. And a game that plays like a book ( Dreamfall: The Longest Journey) I really loved. That's me. A game that has lore, will hold people in. I'm not talking about the LOLRAID 10 hours a day people. Or the people who only wish to gank lowbies to feel good. I'm talking about normal people that just enjoy something casual. Everyone's tastes are very different.
On the contrary. Lot's of people care how long you've been playing MMO's. In fact, in some circles, it is a right of passage, or even a matter of pride. It's true, playing for "x" number of years does not make you a hardcore gamer though, experience makes you a hardcore gamer. You need to experience many games and genres, not just play a single MMO for 10 years straight.
In fact, as a game design student, I often have to rely on those who have been playing longer than others for their opinions as they seem to have a little more insight than newbies or young kids. I care how long you have been playing. To me, claiming that it doesn't matter goes right back to the pride thing. I am not saying you are jelous though, but in this case, I don't think it is simply ignorance.
If there was an option to turn off quest dialogue/text I'd turn it off.
When you join the Army, and they send you to the front line, who would you rather stand next to - the 10 year vet who has been in combat thru 4 wars and survived, or the 2 week rookie who just got out of boot camp with his 1 week of firearms usage? Hell, it is possible the vet can't hit the broad side of a barn and the rookie is a marksman sure, but I tell you what - I'll take that 10 year vet any day.
I'm sorry if it offends you that there are people out there that have been gaming for almost as long as you have been alive, and with that experience they can claim the right to know things you don't. It's possible they actually do. Seriously though, I have been gaming since I was 20 years old, and according to your profile that means I have been playing since before you were even thought of. Does that mean I'm better than you at playing the games, nope - but it does mean I have seen far more than you have - with out question. And in my opinion, if I have been gaming non-stop for 20 years in one form or another (longer than you have been alive) then I'd consider myself hardcore. While I have been gaming, you learned how to walk, talk, eat, piss, ride a bike, read, write, catch a ball, put in 13 years of school, had a couple girlfriends, fell in love, had a broken heart, had your first beer, smoked your first smoke, graduated HS, got your first job, maybe even payed your first bill, and oh yeah - had mom and dad buy your first PC so you could play your first MMO and learn how to come on these forums and talk shit about 'your experience'. Yup, I'd venture to say I might be a hardcore gamer.
And on your last statement, your correct, our 'opinions are no more valuable then a teen wow kid'. However, since that teen WoW kid has probably never played any other game, they obviously have no idea about the 'genre', all they have an opinion on is WoW. Does that make my opinion more valuable on WoW - nope, does it make it more valuable on the genre as a whole - you betcha it does. I at least have the experience to back up my opinions.
Oh yeah, and to stay on topic - yes dialog does matter. I know tons who never read it and tons that do. In my experience though, those that do, are more apt to enjoy and continue to play a game long after the first 2-3 months.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)