If a company wants to use subscription +rmt business model then by all means do so. People whined about SOE and Cryptic doing it and they are whining that Blizzard is doing it now. The thing is how Blizzard is going about this whole pet store. They are saying this pet store is for charity. Ok great, good on them but there is a catch,they are keeping half the profits. They are using this charity thing as an excuse to get people to use the rmt model they are planning to use in the future. So they figure lets make people feel sorry for the people in need so we can make more money. Thats the problem I have with the way Blizzard is doing this whole thing, its pretty sneaky and devious if you ask me not to mention pretty low life how they are going about the whole pet store. Also gamers have to start thinking differently these days. It isn't all about making great games anymore. Its all about the benjamins, its a business. It is about making a game to make money. If gamers do not like the way companies are running their business then there is one of several ways what you can do. You can either not play their games, not play mmos at all or you can simply find another company that suites your needs and wants.
Exactly. Why don't they give 100% of the proceeds if its "just for charity".. after all its just simple coded two "do nothing pets" surely it wouldn't put a ding on the mega giant?
Hell, why not be more generous with *other peoples money*? How about they give away all of their money? After all, they've made billions of dollars, certainly they don't *need* any more do they?...<rolls eyes> The fact remains that they didn't need to give them any money at all. Their motivation is irrelevant. The charity is no doubt VERY happy to have that money.
Blizzard had to invest in the infrastructure to support the buying of Vanity pets and it would be foolish not to expand it to sell other things and maybe even things to make your character more powerful.
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here. Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.
My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.
As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.
Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?
Why should those against RMT have the only voice? do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet? i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.
Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.
I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?" i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end. Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.
Because the gamer's of WoW use to get the fluff included with their sub and box purchases maybe? You may be okay with buying a burger for years from a restaurant and then suddenly the burger joint deciding that ketchup for the burger will now not come with burgers any longer, you buy it seperately.
Some people like I decide that I don't want this companies products any longer and start shopping for burgers at other places they will include everything with my burger for one price. If enough people decide the same that they prefer not to be nickle and dimed then the other burger joint will realize they went over their limit with how much they can get away with and still keep customers. Businesses are always testing how far they can milk their customers without them leaving.
This above is what is happening. Anyone care to explain why item shops are a good thing?
Blizzard had to invest in the infrastructure to support the buying of Vanity pets and it would be foolish not to expand it to sell other things and maybe even things to make your character more powerful.
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Actually for me it does not matter what they sell in their store now when they have one. If the players want raid gear in the store then just add it, no different from having vanity pets there imo.
The wolf is already eating the sheep "Dimly aware by a certain unease in the air"
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Blizzard had to invest in the infrastructure to support the buying of Vanity pets and it would be foolish not to expand it to sell other things and maybe even things to make your character more powerful.
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Sweet. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jon here... name one mmo that's started to adapt a cash shop into its game that's backed off. None? Hmm.. yes.. that's what I thought.
So your telling me that blizzard is going to be different?
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
A few questions for those who happily accept RMT. Whether you purchase illegally or through an in game store. Once you have what you want (especially in a game like WOW or EQ2). What do you do with your time in game? Now that the game equation has been taken away. How do you perform on your premade character? Is it confusing to start out after never taking the time to learn the gameplay and your build?
Do you feel epic when you beat someone down with your flaming super sized axe? The one you went through perilous adventures to obtain? Oh wait...
My tone in that one is somewhat condescending, sorry for that. However I feel the questions are fair given the nature of what you are doing. The biggest question I have is, how does it feel to run around on a toon many people know, yet they do not know you are not that person? Kinda awkward I bet . Cherio.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I honestly look down on dumbasses who openly welcome the RMT system in sub games.
Sorry, you are not as smart as you think you are. I know what the reasons inside your head are. "A mark of an educated mind is to entertain a thought without accepting it", yet I feel the need to scorn seeing how stupid people can be, and I don't know if I want to entertain such reasoning, seeing what simple minds they come from.
Yes, I understand you have the burning desire to create an online image of yourself, being rich, carefree and "thoughtful - understanding the corp.'s point of view". Yet, it's funny how easy you are to figure out when a person take a college course of psychology. I do believe that your thinking capacity and your understanding of other people thoughts are limited at a certain level.
Now beside that point, we don't know if whether or not Blizzard is trying to implement an RMT system.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Sweet. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jon here... name one mmo that's started to adapt a cash shop into its game that's backed off. None? Hmm.. yes.. that's what I thought.
So your telling me that blizzard is going to be different?
Why would they need to put gear in a cash shop anyway. I mean right now I can start a character, in 2 weeks have him at level 80. Spend a week doing nothing but BGs, suck at them or not doesn't matter, and at the end of that week have a full set of purples on (doesn't matter if they are the best or not - they get ya to the next step). Now that I have my set of purples on I will pass initial gear inspection, and can beginning my next week of back to back heroic PUG to get my BETTER set of purples by the end of my first month. I can then pass the next stage of inspection, and finally join a decent raiding guild, where over the next 2-3 weeks I can finish out my top tier gear. All in all in 6-8 weeks I can go from start to top gear. Why would I need a cash shop gear system when I can already get it all so easy, they already hand it out like candy at Halloween.
Besides, Blizzard already has a cash shop, you pay for character transfers, you pay for character renames, you pay for character sex changes, faction changes, pretty soon you will be paying for more character slots - all with RL cash. Whats two vanity pets added to the already HUGE list they already have in their cash shop? You also going to tell me the trading card game isn't a form of cash shop that's been going for how long now? Drop $200 on the cards and you might get an in-game mount? That's about as cash shop as you can get, only now, its not a % chance to get what you want, you just click and get it for your money. And you don't have to figure out what to do with the thousands of paper cards that you will never use.
This entire argument is over semantics, should they have a cash shop, or shouldn't they. The problem is, they already do, they are just adding to it now.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I agree w/John, this is a non-issue for me. Having said that, I've played WoW since 1 month after it's release but if they EVER charge for needed in game items, I'm gone for good.
My view is simply this: There is content which my $15 monthly fee doesn't buy me. If I want access to 100% of the content, I now have to pay $20 extra in microtransactions. I thought the hundreds of dollars I've paid in subscription fees and expansion packs since release would at least give me access to all the content. Guess not, eh? I've been a subscriber since release day, but I canceled a few days ago.
My view is simply this: There is content which my $15 monthly fee doesn't buy me. If I want access to 100% of the content, I now have to pay $20 extra in microtransactions. I thought the hundreds of dollars I've paid in subscription fees and expansion packs since release would at least give me access to all the content. Guess not, eh? I've been a subscriber since release day, but I canceled a few days ago. I'm having more fun playing Fallen Earth anyway.
FE is getting in on the act too. iPhone app to handle crafting away from your PC.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I agree w/John, this is a non-issue for me. Having said that, I've played WoW since 1 month after it's release but if they EVER charge for needed in game items, I'm gone for good.
Define "needed".
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I agree w/John, this is a non-issue for me. Having said that, I've played WoW since 1 month after it's release but if they EVER charge for needed in game items, I'm gone for good.
Define "needed".
I think he's referring to needing a certain buffing item from a RMT shop in order to complete an encounter, or that characters who don't perform RMT will not be viable (i.e. weapons above the quality of what can be found in PvP or PvE content).
I said it before and I'll say it again, I've already performed 2 separate microtransactions for $40 each after I bought the initial game (purchase of expansions). That's 120$ I've thrown at Blizz, along with 4 years of 15$ a month.
IMO, they need to either be philanthropic or not. Give all the money to charity, or none. Their greed at only giving a portion of the proceeds to charity is what really turns me off about them. 11 million subscribers isn't enough at 15$ a month to keep the ball rolling? FFS.
(snip) This entire argument is over semantics, should they have a cash shop, or shouldn't they. The problem is, they already do, they are just adding to it now.
Thats the issue though isnt it? They are adding to it. Some of you people fail to see the aftermath of what this "little" thing will transpire to. As many have said, this is just the beginning. They'll start doing gear and other things at some point, its just a matter of time.
But you see, thats not what REALLY worries me. What worries me is that once they do so (I.E. there hasn't been one company thats backed off of cash shop once they started it) is that the rest of the industry will look at this mmo giant and see that this "pay a monthly charge then charge them for items that should be free in game via quest" is acceptable. It is not.
So yes, keep saying this little thing will be nothing, thats what they want you to say... after all that's the way all cash shops start.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I use to be on the RMT protester bandwagon until I realized that most companies that use it are trying to "survive" in one form or another.
But most importantly we are not seeing the Asian "way" to do it, which uses the system to "nickel and dime" their players long enough to gather money for their new MMO release as well as line their pockets at the same time. Thus keeping a stagnant pool of money coming in from a core group of players to fund future MMOs that see their budgets swell with every release due to improvements to graphics, system performance and global adaptability. This is one reason they have no problem with introducing game destroying items for their current MMOs, because they know they have another 10 down the pipeline to take it's place. Thus they all seem the same with only those 3 things I mentioned above to draw in more players. That way has no choice but to eventually crash and burn or something has to adapt.
Now keep in mind that Western developers just recently started this trend but with a different twist. Most developers here introduce RMTs after a game has been developed (or close to release) and most companies doing it only have 1 or 2 MMOs down the pipeline to sustain it's company. Reason being is that Western developers throw a LOT more money behind it's endeavors, even before the first line of code is written. And so I think they are following the trend set more so by what we see in console gaming marketplace stores. We will see more cosmetic/vanity type items as appose to game crushing items that quicken your ability to reach the pinnacle of enjoyment of a given game. Because they know that once players reach this point, the drop off can be sharp and very fast for the western market, thus throwing away millions in dollars, time and effort poured into a project.
So now you "may" have the 800 pound gorilla (WoW) testing out the acceptance of such a system and you think that only a handful of posters with no money funding their research can analyze things and come to a reasonable conclusion? And I say to you that's just as absurd as to think that Blizzard would follow suit of a dying Asian RMT system when it already has the upper hand throughout the ENTIRE market to begin with........
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
As long as they are vanity objects and nontradeable, I don't think it's so bad. I think my opinion on the subject has slowly evolved toward one of grudging acceptance. I would like to be able to get cool, vanity type items in game for free, but since everything is about squeezing another dime from the turnip (me) I am resigned to atleast having another option.
I think my hardline stance changed somewhat when I discovered my wife has been buying Sims 3 points to buy furniture and stuff. At first I was shocked because she is so thrifty usually. Then I felt cheated because I hadn't been doing the same thing with my games.
Give me more hairstyles, the ability to customize my appearance, vanity clothing, pets, mounts, whatever. Really I think these things should be covered by my subscription, but if the alternative is to get nothing, I vote atleast to have a limited cash shop.
Personally, I see this as a stepping stone. Did I buy the pets? Yep, both of them. But I foresee more than just vanity items coming....like XP Potions and Hierloom gear "points" that can be used like the emblems currently used to purchase the hierloom items.
I doubt though they'll ever put anything of great value that if you don't have you will die (like having Relentless gear vs Savage gear).
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
Don't buy it if you don't agree with it. No one is forcing people to buy and no one is getting an advantage for buying it. The "bitch" is moot and the reasons are silly. Complaining because some people will spend money My only take on the pro/con is Blizzard should have made a 75%-100% contribution of the funds to the Make-a-wish foundation. The act of altruism would have done more for them that offering 50% of an item that took the time to model,render and implement,a few days of work .
I do understand the desire to make capitol but with subs sliding,people moving to other games and more waiting on others ,a true "appearance sake" act of altruism would have gone a hell of a lot further in sympathy coin than 50%
Good luck with your pets
Good points. Someone in their PR department dropped the ball Big Time(tm). But the charity gets money they wouldn't have had in any event, so its all to the good. I doubt blizzards subs are slipping that much, not with 3.3 coming in a couple of months. But after 3.3 its going to be quite a while until Cat launches. Then we might see some slippage.
I don't see anyone chastising Bioware over RMT. Lets take a look at Dragon Age, i bought the CE and got some nice extra stuff, but guess what, there is more content but i have to pay for it, i don't get free access to wardens keep, i have to pay 15 more dollars for it, sounds like RMT to me. Whats some of the arguements around here? "Oh well witholding content to charge for it later is bad bad bad, its RMT blah blah blah, but here we have Bioware introducing RMT into a Single Player Game. Not only this but they plan on adding Additional content for 2 more years, you think any of that is gonna be free? Bioware = cash shop right there. So where's the outrage? Where's the people saying they won't play a Bioware game ever again?
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
I can't Blame you. I own WOW, But I cant play it anymore because Blizzard has done anything to make the game play worthy. Sure they added a dungeon here and there. A few more pointless mounts. Stupid vanity pets. But nothing worthy of paying 14.99 for. They say they are doing this for charity. Sounds like BS to me. All the cash they have made on a monthly basis over the years. They can't donate a portion of that to charity. Sounds like they don't want to come up out their own pockets to support so said charity. If thats the case the that charity is assed out.
I don't see anyone chastising Bioware over RMT. Lets take a look at Dragon Age, i bought the CE and got some nice extra stuff, but guess what, there is more content but i have to pay for it, i don't get free access to wardens keep, i have to pay 15 more dollars for it, sounds like RMT to me. Whats some of the arguements around here? "Oh well witholding content to charge for it later is bad bad bad, its RMT blah blah blah, but here we have Bioware introducing RMT into a Single Player Game. Not only this but they plan on adding Additional content for 2 more years, you think any of that is gonna be free? Bioware = cash shop right there. So where's the outrage? Where's the people saying they won't play a Bioware game ever again?
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
And really, dissenters of the RMT should take from this poster's example. Make your choice with your wallets. Don't like it, don't support it. As long as there's people lining up to fork it over, don't try and ruin it for the rest of them. They are happy and the MMORPG genre in itself is large enough to accommodate all sorts of people. It seems like some of these people have to find the right ones for them to be able to enjoy the MMORPG concept or perhaps they should look outside MMORPG if they cannot find anything. That just means the genre just isn't for you. It's like forcing yourself to read fantasy books when your interest lies in non-fiction World War II or Murder Mysteries, because the only people that are at a loss in regards to this are the ones that still care enough to make a huge gripe about it As long as they are supported, they really don't need you and thats just the ugly truth.
I don't see anyone chastising Bioware over RMT. Lets take a look at Dragon Age, i bought the CE and got some nice extra stuff, but guess what, there is more content but i have to pay for it, i don't get free access to wardens keep, i have to pay 15 more dollars for it, sounds like RMT to me. Whats some of the arguements around here? "Oh well witholding content to charge for it later is bad bad bad, its RMT blah blah blah, but here we have Bioware introducing RMT into a Single Player Game. Not only this but they plan on adding Additional content for 2 more years, you think any of that is gonna be free? Bioware = cash shop right there. So where's the outrage? Where's the people saying they won't play a Bioware game ever again?
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
And really, dissenters of the RMT should take from this poster's example. Make your choice with your wallets. Don't like it, don't support it. As long as there's people lining up to fork it over, don't try and ruin it for the rest of them. They are happy and the MMORPG genre in itself is large enough to accommodate all sorts of people. It seems like some of these people have to find the right ones for them to be able to enjoy the MMORPG concept or perhaps they should look outside MMORPG if they cannot find anything. That just means the genre just isn't for you. It's like forcing yourself to read fantasy books when your interest lies in non-fiction World War II or Murder Mysteries, because the only people that are at a loss in regards to this are the ones that still care enough to make a huge gripe about it As long as they are supported, they really don't need you and thats just the ugly truth.
The basic concept is "We'll leave this crack out there after you've had some hits, and we'll just see if someone pays for it". Lots of people did actually buy dragon age with the intent to not buy the extras, or didn't but the game period. Less from the latter due to the game being a good game.
The bigger issue is the reality of "how much have you spent on world of warcraft?" and when you look at subscription cost + transfers + all sorts of additional things that cost cash which can be purchased out of game, you'll realize how much you've really spent. Was that $600+ for 3 years of something that you can't "take with you" in any form actually valuable? You have memories, but only for/with yourself, not anything you can just say "here, check it out yourself" about.
Activision has been the spearhead of trying to milk more money than just the price for a game time and time again. That's who I've boycotted. Don't blame blizzard, blame blizzard's corporate owner, Activision. EA is the only company worse, that I can think of.
There is nothing wrong with RMT except that companies are only willing to let it go one way, exception being sony. Why can't you sell these pets to other people for your own real cash? This is the problem, and decrying that the whole thing is idiotic is what shows the real problem. They're only letting the money leave your wallet, not come back into.
So who here thinks this is a test case for future things to come ??
I sure do think that this is only just the beginning of blizzard's master plan to go over to micro transactions in the end. Now sure its good they are donating half of it to charity but wouldn't you think they would donate all to the said charity instead of cheapening it just to make a little extra money on the side??
- When blizzard introduced char server transfers, they boys cried wolf (that pve->pvp transfers will be possible). Blizzard said this will never happen due to the advantages a pve player would have.
- When blizzard introduced faction transfers, they boys cried wolf (that race changes will be possible). Blizzard said this will not happen because the racial skills give advantages and they don't want people to change to a fotm race.
- Well now the boys cry wolf about buying items. You can already buy an 3x xp gain, altough you have to play with a friend so its a bit limited. But I can see them starting with selling heirlooms for real money and go on from there.
- Another wolf cry. After gender, race and faction changes. Class changes will come next.
I hereby reserve the right to claim "I told you so" when things do go south Jon.
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
Things like this (charging subscription fee AND RMTs) rarely happen in big steps. Champion Online started with worthless, fluff items but then now recently introduced a free respec.
That is how it starts, harmless things at first, but later more and more are sneaked in. Just wait and see...
I believe as well that this is a slippery slope... and once started, will commence with whatever we ALLOW them to charge us additional money for.
Comments
Exactly. Why don't they give 100% of the proceeds if its "just for charity".. after all its just simple coded two "do nothing pets" surely it wouldn't put a ding on the mega giant?
Hell, why not be more generous with *other peoples money*? How about they give away all of their money? After all, they've made billions of dollars, certainly they don't *need* any more do they?...<rolls eyes> The fact remains that they didn't need to give them any money at all. Their motivation is irrelevant. The charity is no doubt VERY happy to have that money.
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.
As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.
Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?
Why should those against RMT have the only voice? do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet? i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.
Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.
I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?" i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end. Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.
Because the gamer's of WoW use to get the fluff included with their sub and box purchases maybe? You may be okay with buying a burger for years from a restaurant and then suddenly the burger joint deciding that ketchup for the burger will now not come with burgers any longer, you buy it seperately.
Some people like I decide that I don't want this companies products any longer and start shopping for burgers at other places they will include everything with my burger for one price. If enough people decide the same that they prefer not to be nickle and dimed then the other burger joint will realize they went over their limit with how much they can get away with and still keep customers. Businesses are always testing how far they can milk their customers without them leaving.
This above is what is happening. Anyone care to explain why item shops are a good thing?
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Actually for me it does not matter what they sell in their store now when they have one. If the players want raid gear in the store then just add it, no different from having vanity pets there imo.
The wolf is already eating the sheep "Dimly aware by a certain unease in the air"
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Sweet. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jon here... name one mmo that's started to adapt a cash shop into its game that's backed off. None? Hmm.. yes.. that's what I thought.
So your telling me that blizzard is going to be different?
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
A few questions for those who happily accept RMT. Whether you purchase illegally or through an in game store. Once you have what you want (especially in a game like WOW or EQ2). What do you do with your time in game? Now that the game equation has been taken away. How do you perform on your premade character? Is it confusing to start out after never taking the time to learn the gameplay and your build?
Do you feel epic when you beat someone down with your flaming super sized axe? The one you went through perilous adventures to obtain? Oh wait...
My tone in that one is somewhat condescending, sorry for that. However I feel the questions are fair given the nature of what you are doing. The biggest question I have is, how does it feel to run around on a toon many people know, yet they do not know you are not that person? Kinda awkward I bet
. Cherio.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I honestly look down on dumbasses who openly welcome the RMT system in sub games.
Sorry, you are not as smart as you think you are. I know what the reasons inside your head are. "A mark of an educated mind is to entertain a thought without accepting it", yet I feel the need to scorn seeing how stupid people can be, and I don't know if I want to entertain such reasoning, seeing what simple minds they come from.
Yes, I understand you have the burning desire to create an online image of yourself, being rich, carefree and "thoughtful - understanding the corp.'s point of view". Yet, it's funny how easy you are to figure out when a person take a college course of psychology. I do believe that your thinking capacity and your understanding of other people thoughts are limited at a certain level.
Now beside that point, we don't know if whether or not Blizzard is trying to implement an RMT system.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Sweet. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jon here... name one mmo that's started to adapt a cash shop into its game that's backed off. None? Hmm.. yes.. that's what I thought.
So your telling me that blizzard is going to be different?
Why would they need to put gear in a cash shop anyway. I mean right now I can start a character, in 2 weeks have him at level 80. Spend a week doing nothing but BGs, suck at them or not doesn't matter, and at the end of that week have a full set of purples on (doesn't matter if they are the best or not - they get ya to the next step). Now that I have my set of purples on I will pass initial gear inspection, and can beginning my next week of back to back heroic PUG to get my BETTER set of purples by the end of my first month. I can then pass the next stage of inspection, and finally join a decent raiding guild, where over the next 2-3 weeks I can finish out my top tier gear. All in all in 6-8 weeks I can go from start to top gear. Why would I need a cash shop gear system when I can already get it all so easy, they already hand it out like candy at Halloween.
Besides, Blizzard already has a cash shop, you pay for character transfers, you pay for character renames, you pay for character sex changes, faction changes, pretty soon you will be paying for more character slots - all with RL cash. Whats two vanity pets added to the already HUGE list they already have in their cash shop? You also going to tell me the trading card game isn't a form of cash shop that's been going for how long now? Drop $200 on the cards and you might get an in-game mount? That's about as cash shop as you can get, only now, its not a % chance to get what you want, you just click and get it for your money. And you don't have to figure out what to do with the thousands of paper cards that you will never use.
This entire argument is over semantics, should they have a cash shop, or shouldn't they. The problem is, they already do, they are just adding to it now.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I agree w/John, this is a non-issue for me. Having said that, I've played WoW since 1 month after it's release but if they EVER charge for needed in game items, I'm gone for good.
My view is simply this: There is content which my $15 monthly fee doesn't buy me. If I want access to 100% of the content, I now have to pay $20 extra in microtransactions. I thought the hundreds of dollars I've paid in subscription fees and expansion packs since release would at least give me access to all the content. Guess not, eh? I've been a subscriber since release day, but I canceled a few days ago.
I'm having more fun playing Fallen Earth anyway.
FE is getting in on the act too. iPhone app to handle crafting away from your PC.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Define "needed".
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Define "needed".
I think he's referring to needing a certain buffing item from a RMT shop in order to complete an encounter, or that characters who don't perform RMT will not be viable (i.e. weapons above the quality of what can be found in PvP or PvE content).
I said it before and I'll say it again, I've already performed 2 separate microtransactions for $40 each after I bought the initial game (purchase of expansions). That's 120$ I've thrown at Blizz, along with 4 years of 15$ a month.
IMO, they need to either be philanthropic or not. Give all the money to charity, or none. Their greed at only giving a portion of the proceeds to charity is what really turns me off about them. 11 million subscribers isn't enough at 15$ a month to keep the ball rolling? FFS.
Thats the issue though isnt it? They are adding to it. Some of you people fail to see the aftermath of what this "little" thing will transpire to. As many have said, this is just the beginning. They'll start doing gear and other things at some point, its just a matter of time.
But you see, thats not what REALLY worries me. What worries me is that once they do so (I.E. there hasn't been one company thats backed off of cash shop once they started it) is that the rest of the industry will look at this mmo giant and see that this "pay a monthly charge then charge them for items that should be free in game via quest" is acceptable. It is not.
So yes, keep saying this little thing will be nothing, thats what they want you to say... after all that's the way all cash shops start.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I use to be on the RMT protester bandwagon until I realized that most companies that use it are trying to "survive" in one form or another.
But most importantly we are not seeing the Asian "way" to do it, which uses the system to "nickel and dime" their players long enough to gather money for their new MMO release as well as line their pockets at the same time. Thus keeping a stagnant pool of money coming in from a core group of players to fund future MMOs that see their budgets swell with every release due to improvements to graphics, system performance and global adaptability. This is one reason they have no problem with introducing game destroying items for their current MMOs, because they know they have another 10 down the pipeline to take it's place. Thus they all seem the same with only those 3 things I mentioned above to draw in more players. That way has no choice but to eventually crash and burn or something has to adapt.
Now keep in mind that Western developers just recently started this trend but with a different twist. Most developers here introduce RMTs after a game has been developed (or close to release) and most companies doing it only have 1 or 2 MMOs down the pipeline to sustain it's company. Reason being is that Western developers throw a LOT more money behind it's endeavors, even before the first line of code is written. And so I think they are following the trend set more so by what we see in console gaming marketplace stores. We will see more cosmetic/vanity type items as appose to game crushing items that quicken your ability to reach the pinnacle of enjoyment of a given game. Because they know that once players reach this point, the drop off can be sharp and very fast for the western market, thus throwing away millions in dollars, time and effort poured into a project.
So now you "may" have the 800 pound gorilla (WoW) testing out the acceptance of such a system and you think that only a handful of posters with no money funding their research can analyze things and come to a reasonable conclusion? And I say to you that's just as absurd as to think that Blizzard would follow suit of a dying Asian RMT system when it already has the upper hand throughout the ENTIRE market to begin with........
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
As long as they are vanity objects and nontradeable, I don't think it's so bad. I think my opinion on the subject has slowly evolved toward one of grudging acceptance. I would like to be able to get cool, vanity type items in game for free, but since everything is about squeezing another dime from the turnip (me) I am resigned to atleast having another option.
I think my hardline stance changed somewhat when I discovered my wife has been buying Sims 3 points to buy furniture and stuff. At first I was shocked because she is so thrifty usually. Then I felt cheated because I hadn't been doing the same thing with my games.
Give me more hairstyles, the ability to customize my appearance, vanity clothing, pets, mounts, whatever. Really I think these things should be covered by my subscription, but if the alternative is to get nothing, I vote atleast to have a limited cash shop.
Personally, I see this as a stepping stone. Did I buy the pets? Yep, both of them. But I foresee more than just vanity items coming....like XP Potions and Hierloom gear "points" that can be used like the emblems currently used to purchase the hierloom items.
I doubt though they'll ever put anything of great value that if you don't have you will die (like having Relentless gear vs Savage gear).
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
Good points. Someone in their PR department dropped the ball Big Time(tm). But the charity gets money they wouldn't have had in any event, so its all to the good. I doubt blizzards subs are slipping that much, not with 3.3 coming in a couple of months. But after 3.3 its going to be quite a while until Cat launches. Then we might see some slippage.
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
I can't Blame you. I own WOW, But I cant play it anymore because Blizzard has done anything to make the game play worthy. Sure they added a dungeon here and there. A few more pointless mounts. Stupid vanity pets. But nothing worthy of paying 14.99 for. They say they are doing this for charity. Sounds like BS to me. All the cash they have made on a monthly basis over the years. They can't donate a portion of that to charity. Sounds like they don't want to come up out their own pockets to support so said charity. If thats the case the that charity is assed out.
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
And really, dissenters of the RMT should take from this poster's example. Make your choice with your wallets. Don't like it, don't support it. As long as there's people lining up to fork it over, don't try and ruin it for the rest of them. They are happy and the MMORPG genre in itself is large enough to accommodate all sorts of people. It seems like some of these people have to find the right ones for them to be able to enjoy the MMORPG concept or perhaps they should look outside MMORPG if they cannot find anything. That just means the genre just isn't for you. It's like forcing yourself to read fantasy books when your interest lies in non-fiction World War II or Murder Mysteries, because the only people that are at a loss in regards to this are the ones that still care enough to make a huge gripe about it
As long as they are supported, they really don't need you and thats just the ugly truth.
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
And really, dissenters of the RMT should take from this poster's example. Make your choice with your wallets. Don't like it, don't support it. As long as there's people lining up to fork it over, don't try and ruin it for the rest of them. They are happy and the MMORPG genre in itself is large enough to accommodate all sorts of people. It seems like some of these people have to find the right ones for them to be able to enjoy the MMORPG concept or perhaps they should look outside MMORPG if they cannot find anything. That just means the genre just isn't for you. It's like forcing yourself to read fantasy books when your interest lies in non-fiction World War II or Murder Mysteries, because the only people that are at a loss in regards to this are the ones that still care enough to make a huge gripe about it
As long as they are supported, they really don't need you and thats just the ugly truth.
The basic concept is "We'll leave this crack out there after you've had some hits, and we'll just see if someone pays for it". Lots of people did actually buy dragon age with the intent to not buy the extras, or didn't but the game period. Less from the latter due to the game being a good game.
The bigger issue is the reality of "how much have you spent on world of warcraft?" and when you look at subscription cost + transfers + all sorts of additional things that cost cash which can be purchased out of game, you'll realize how much you've really spent. Was that $600+ for 3 years of something that you can't "take with you" in any form actually valuable? You have memories, but only for/with yourself, not anything you can just say "here, check it out yourself" about.
Activision has been the spearhead of trying to milk more money than just the price for a game time and time again. That's who I've boycotted. Don't blame blizzard, blame blizzard's corporate owner, Activision. EA is the only company worse, that I can think of.
There is nothing wrong with RMT except that companies are only willing to let it go one way, exception being sony. Why can't you sell these pets to other people for your own real cash? This is the problem, and decrying that the whole thing is idiotic is what shows the real problem. They're only letting the money leave your wallet, not come back into.
/rant
So who here thinks this is a test case for future things to come ??
I sure do think that this is only just the beginning of blizzard's master plan to go over to micro transactions in the end. Now sure its good they are donating half of it to charity but wouldn't you think they would donate all to the said charity instead of cheapening it just to make a little extra money on the side??
- When blizzard introduced char server transfers, they boys cried wolf (that pve->pvp transfers will be possible). Blizzard said this will never happen due to the advantages a pve player would have.
- When blizzard introduced faction transfers, they boys cried wolf (that race changes will be possible). Blizzard said this will not happen because the racial skills give advantages and they don't want people to change to a fotm race.
- Well now the boys cry wolf about buying items. You can already buy an 3x xp gain, altough you have to play with a friend so its a bit limited. But I can see them starting with selling heirlooms for real money and go on from there.
- Another wolf cry. After gender, race and faction changes. Class changes will come next.
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
Things like this (charging subscription fee AND RMTs) rarely happen in big steps. Champion Online started with worthless, fluff items but then now recently introduced a free respec.
That is how it starts, harmless things at first, but later more and more are sneaked in. Just wait and see...
I believe as well that this is a slippery slope... and once started, will commence with whatever we ALLOW them to charge us additional money for.
No bitchers.