1. Size of the gameplay world, geographically speaking, and freedom of movement in that world. Having over 500 square miles to explore in Asheron's Call was amazing. No zones, no loading screens, just a single instance. Just hundreds upon hundreds of square miles of woods, valleys, mountains, swamps, deserts, temples, towns, and dungeons to explore. Contrast that with something like AoC where when all the zones/areas are combined gives you maybe 25-30 square miles tops. Zones which are many times instanced to begin with.
2. Lore! Stop with the tolkienesque anglo-centric garbage already! Enough with the elves, orcs, dwarves, fairies and the rest. Lore-wise all these games nowadays are nothing more than spoon feed tolkienesque high-fantasy trash. It is really getting old after all these decades. (Yes, decades!) The same type of soft-fantasy junkola that was available gaming-wise back in the 80s is pretty much still around, only in the MMO form. With all the different fantasy/sci-fi material out there and massive amount of raw cultural myths why stick to anglo stuff? So much more cool stuff in african, slavic, or even far-east legends that is pretty much left untapped. I don't just avoid tolkienesque games, I don't play them period. Which is why I was attracted to AC back in 1999. (It was too much then, but after three LOTR movies, this stuff is everywhere now.)
3. Content saturation. Not only does the world need to be large, unrestrictive, and freelance-friendly, as per #1, but there needs to be plenty of content to nicely fill out those hundreds of square miles. Hundreds of square miles of random rocks and trees is pretty worthless. If Turbine could do it (with heavy backing and funding from Microsoft at the time) back in 1996, then what is the problem now, after nearly 15 years, and in an era where game development budgets rival that of hollywood movies and where relevant technology has advanced many times over. My guess? Incompetence and greed. (Standard MMO Project Manager: Let's get the game out of the door ASAP and let the money roll in! Product quality, lore, content? Waz dat?! Moar elves! Teh kids like dat! )
One word: immersion. If it's a game to play, i'll pass. If it's a world to get lost in, i'm in.
You know ,i was finding a hard time to explain myself ,thinking only a novel could explain all the criteria i look for,but this pretty much sums it up for me as well.
The "to get lost in" part sums up all content areas as well,the more in depth,the more mechanics ...basically more more it has ,i am giving the game a good chance.
A game based pretty much on PVP is also a turn off,i find developers have been using PVP as the sole reason to sell their games,the RPG part of the games has somewhere been lost or forgotten.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
well, for me there are only 3 really important questions:
Is it pve focused (I really dont like games where you more or less have to participate in pvp)
Does it have crafting?
Does it have a lot of soloable content?
if answer to all 3 is yes, than any game has chance - I am then studying the info about that game (its webpages, reviews, forums) and if it seems interesting to me, i do try it and if i like it, i stay,
For me as a person that is busy with lots of crap in real life , i cant and i dont want to be in a guild and be a hardcore player. so i've been looking for a game that rewards lone pvp players in a way... and not being a zerg/premade contest and usually without any reward. right now there isnt a game like t his out there...looking forward to Mortal Online...but thats a small company with limited budget .. so yeh thats my story.
I'm replying to the orignal article, haven't read the 80+ posts.
I started long before there were graphics - text based games. I loved the grind, I hated the grind, then everquest invited me to alpha their game. I declined - I was too immersed in my text based game. That lasted 9 years.
Since then, I've tried every major (and many minor) MMOs (MMORPGs, MRPGs, whatever) that has been released. At times I wanted a free-form sandbox game, skill based. At times, I found defined roles very fun. Most of the time, I would subscribe just long enough to try and figure out the mechanics - what makes this game unique, what makes it tick, what new innovations does this game bring to the market. Even today I'll pay the 50 bucks and a free month to see what's new in the industry. That's not what I really want though - it's just what attracts me to each new game.
How do I pick my MMO? People. Friends. Community.
I really liked many games, and I really quite them all because I couldn't find people to play with.
Everquest - reached level 36+ as a gnome cleric, lost several levels trying to solo because I couldn't find anyone to play with regularly. Quit.
Repeat this with many games, even when they got rid of loss of levels. Joined several major guilds, same deal. If nobody plays when you play, if nobody is willing to help out or group for whatever reason (like, they are all 80th level and you're level 10...).
Community, grouping makes a game. I hate WoW, but I'd play it if I had people to help and group with. I'd even play Aion, or Champions, or Fallen Earth. Just need people to play with.
My initial attraction is "what's new, innovative, challenging, different". I adore skill based games, and I hate them because I can't find a community. I hate class based games, but there is more community, just not one that I've found that I can play with on a regular basis.
Champions Online really opened my eyes. Aion, which I originally hated, has a better atmosphere than Chamions, which I would normally love. All because of the people, and ability to group. Everquest 2 still pulls at me because of the sense of foced grouping and ability to find people to play with - I just can't find them. Repeat this over and over again between different games.
I'm still looking for something to play. Maybe I'll give WoW a try again. Maybe EQ2. Maybe EQ1 on a mac just for the heck of it! Maybe AC. Maybe I'll try a new Asian MMO - I'm looking for one thing and I can't find it - community, people to play with and enjoy a few hours together.
What attracts me? Innovation. Change. Systems. What keeps me? Community and people.
Great article. That first screen shot for me is sometimes make or break. I too have a favorite class. The high elf. Something about those snobby know it alls that remind me so much of myself lol. Choosing studying of the arts and discipline, in a military esque society, is interesting to me.
Warhammer online nailed it with the Archmage. It was incredibly fun, and meaningful, to super charge your healing spells by using damaging spells on your enemies.
Balance in pvp is above all else the deciding factor. Can i work hard at my class and equally take on any other class 1 on 1 in the game? Im a duelist by nature. Hellgate London had this.
I thought Atlantica online had it too, but sadly the item mall through everything out of wack.
For me as a person that is busy with lots of crap in real life , i cant and i dont want to be in a guild and be a hardcore player. so i've been looking for a game that rewards lone pvp players in a way... and not being a zerg/premade contest and usually without any reward. right now there isnt a game like t his out there...looking forward to Mortal Online...but thats a small company with limited budget .. so yeh thats my story.
I should have read this post first. I feel exactly the same way. I want to win in pvp one on one. Just questing solo when i have the time in my busy life and randomly duel someone or initiate pvp in a certain zone with someone, and actually stand a chance. Stand a chance because of class balance and individual player skill. I could lose and be satisfied if i knew it was from not disrupting a spell on time, or being kited to death because his/her skill was better than my own. That would feel great.
If you havent tried Atlantica Online, Devil, you should give it a try. People who play that game love to duel and love to pvp and at the lower lvls the game is pretty balanced..... IMHO. Later on the gear starts to matter bigtime and item mall spenders have a very distinct advantage. Better yet, let me rephrase that. Gold buyers have an advantage. The pvp is so much fun though.
Damn i think i may go redownload it but Tekken 6 is coming out Wednesday and Borderlands has my attention atm. Sorry i think i derailed myself off the topic lol.
For me it is they type game it is. The cost of course.
Is it fun or just too hard to learn? There was one game I tried once that was really a fun game. Nice graphics and such but you could not use arrow or wasd to move. It was click, click, and more click. If I wanted click I would play Diablo/Diablo2. Other than that it was really a nice game but it was not set up to use those features at all. Thus I bid the game goodbye. Forgive me for those that like to click. I am not one of those. It is funny what will turn someone away from a game.
Graphics are nice but a game can have fair graphics and still over a lot of fun things that make up for the lack of. Crafting and questing is another thing I look at. I am still in search of useful crafting in the type game I like. I am not into the Sci-Fi games so it is not likely I would even play them.
Story line and quest. Quests are or can be fun. They can also be pointless with poor rewards. Many times quest can give you a feel for how much thought and planning was put into a game. Quests should be fun but should pull you into the story and lore of the game. Advance you forward, be rewarding and not be too long or difficult.
I have found that many games after reaching a certain level you will pretty much need a group. If this is the case and groups are hard to come by this will turn me away. I spent many hours in EQ trying to get a group to complete this quest or that quest. NO FUN and a waste of my time and money. I played EQ for many years and this did not get any better, only worse. There was no class if you just plain didn't have time to spend on raiding and waiting hours to get a group that you could at least solo through some questing content after a certain. The game was designed and dependent on groups. Some classes needed groups sooner the Cleric and Enchanter come to mind as I played both. A warrior leveled faster but was dependent on at least a healer type. At least in WoW you can solo content and progress forward without being group dependent. Groups are also easier to find. Finding groups can also depend on server time and area most on the server are based in. This does not mean where the server is based but what part of the country or world. If this info is not easy to find you can end up on a server that brings you total displeasure.
People that work do not want to spend their precious limited time looking for groups so they can play and have fun so if your friends don't play you want or I do a game that I can meet need friends. I think many of us enjoy the social part of a game as well.
Going back to crafting, it seems most games put the crafting in to give players something to do to reduce boredom maybe. /shrug But if you spend all that time and cost for a crafting skill it would be really nice to be able to get your money back at least. This is rarely ever the case and in most case you just sell the item for little to nothing because no one wants it. Very sad but this could be another story to take on.
Well, I'm not sure how to approach this because I don't really have a particular order, but if I did:
The first thing I generally look at in MMOs, besides the title, is the genre. I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick of fantasy games. Pretty much two factors will get me to choose a fantasy game, fine... three. The game has to be solid, and probably have cartoony/different graphics (the gritty masks the games wear now days get real old real fast) if it doesn't want to incorporate something new. I remember Adsa Story, when I saw it, I got it immediately, because it seemed solid, it didn't overdo itself with realism, and it had some new interesting features. I didn't stay with the game long though, I forget the reason why, because I kinda liked it, it was fresh, different, and didn't give me headaches, even though the game was more than alittle kiddish.
Through that paragraph of self exploration comes a quick gear-change. I guess I look at genre more than anything because I want something new. SciFi is relatively new, and it's relatively different, in most cases. Same with other genres, like racing, action, and shooter. Really, I'd play anything to escape WoW with nittier and grittier graphics and some major changes, including the removal of the polish. Though, I have seen some fantasy games that have taken a step outside of the box. Atlantica, for example: I hate turn based combat, and I Loved Atlantica, until I stopped playing.
World of Warcraft might be the only pure fantasy game I've played for more than a month. Through all the sameyness it had, it always managed to differ from the clones. Sure, Runes of Magic had that dual class system, but WoW had... everything that most fantasy games had, in one game. On top of that, the graphics were cartoony, yet looked good. Though... even with all WoW had to offer, I found myself with the same problem I had with most fantasy games: it just got old. Sure, every new expansion offered new areas, instance, and some game mechanics in the size of fun size snickers bars, but beyone all that, it was the same crap.
--Gimmicks will get me to download a game and play it, but they won't get me to keep playing, or I'd still be grinding in Flyff because I like combat and I like flying. By something different, I mean a game like Space Cowboy Online, the old-school Ace-Online (AirRivals I belive on this site's game roster.) Sure, you grinded, alot, and sure, it got really annoying after level 45 where you were guaranteed a gank by a level 86 B-gear, but on top of little things like the fact that if you were good enough, you could take that 86 down (if he was really horrible too I might add) and the fact that in that game, you flew an earthbound spaceship of sorts. It was like an online Starfox. It had its problems (or I'd still play it) like the ardous amounts of grind, and the forced PvP.
Taikodom was different too, but the game was bugged to hell and maybe it was because of those bugs, but I was left without direction with something I wasn't used to. Right now I play S4Leage, because of its difference. It's not an RPG, rather a Third Person Shooter, but it does things alot differently than even games of that genre. So, where I'm getting with here, in the massive wall of text fueled by a headache and nostalgia, is that if a game's different than the same crap everyone in the game development department sticks with, 90% of the time I will try it. If it's solid, and looks solid, if I try it, I'll more than likely try it and keep playing it. If it's different and solid... I'll probably not let go of that game until what made it different is cliche again.
There's also combat. I'm one of those people who play MMOs have a killing fetish or something. The first thing I will do unless I stop myself is grind; combat is fun for me. If the game incorporates it well, the the game will be that much more fun for me. I refuse to right click on something, press the same buttons over and over with no skill until the enemy I'm fighting falls over. It's another reason why I played WoW, because the class/spec I was (Fire Mage) required real skill to play, and gave a rush. Notice: required. The combat has to be fast paced for me, and though that may not be what everyone likes, I do. I acually thought up a combat system that I'm gonna try to put into my game if it ends up being more than a biped walking around a level. It basically has WoW style click to use spells, but you also have the option to go into a more advanced level of combat (aiming spells, blocking manually, and attacking like in an action RPG, which would be alot harder, and more rewarding) and back to samey point and click with the press of a button. Options like that, would be nice to see.
I do look at race too, at the very least, if the game doesn't have the mentioned above, it has to have elves, well put together elves at that; not just humans with pointy ears and more intelligence. If there was one thing I liked about WoW aside from its solidness and the near limitless things to do, they just did elves right. At least I think so, but that's just me, I like blood elves, and think that that's what elves should be modeled after, just, less addicted to magic, less betrayed, and less hated by the masses who pay attention (but not enough) to lore. On top of that, if I'm gonna be an elf, I want to be a mage. The two were meant for eachother, and mages, usually require more skill to use from my experience, making for more exiting combat.
The community has some to do with my decision too... if the game is full of... well... trolls... I'll be more inclined to just close the game and play Solitare for the next 2 hours. Self proclaimed superiors get on my nerves too, and make me more inclined to close the game and post how I think I choose games pretending anyone cares. Well, really, I hope this gets read by future game desgners, or some of the companies out there, because if there's one thing I stressed to the companies more than anything here, it's as follows:
Don't be afraid to try something new every now and then.
So Twinmill, what did we learn today?
I learned that if I post raw thought when I have a headache, making it make sense is the hardes thing ever, even for an avid writer like myself. Enjoy the clutter, though, the answer lies in the bolded, centered text. And now, I'm off to redownload RF Online thanks to the massive wave of nostalgia I just recieved. It's a fine game if I still want to play it even after they deleted my account due to me being inactive when they did the provider switch.
People that put themselves above others put me in a bad mood. http://www.surrealtwilight.com/index.php ^Has nothing to do with that retarded Vampire Novel Series, I swear!^
I really don't buy into the reputation of the gamemaker for choosing a game. Some companies just don't spend enough on their marketing department or possess the brains for marketing, and that should not doom any product. SOE for instance doomed lots of games with their lack of marketing. And even though they did screw up some games big time, most of their products, which are quality top of the line product, are just unfairly judged because of their lack of visibility and horrible marketing strategy.
For me, I would go with paid games first and foremost. It will take more convincing for me to "try" F2P games, since most of the games are not obliged to keep the players interested in the starter zone. P2P games however are concerned with keeping players after the first 30 days. This mean that at the very least, the starter zone of the game ought to be the very best that the game could offer at launch. This will allow me to really find out the potential of the game and company to really stick with the game.
I'm replying to the orignal article, haven't read the 80+ posts. I started long before there were graphics - text based games. I loved the grind, I hated the grind, then everquest invited me to alpha their game. I declined - I was too immersed in my text based game. That lasted 9 years. Since then, I've tried every major (and many minor) MMOs (MMORPGs, MRPGs, whatever) that has been released. At times I wanted a free-form sandbox game, skill based. At times, I found defined roles very fun. Most of the time, I would subscribe just long enough to try and figure out the mechanics - what makes this game unique, what makes it tick, what new innovations does this game bring to the market. Even today I'll pay the 50 bucks and a free month to see what's new in the industry. That's not what I really want though - it's just what attracts me to each new game. How do I pick my MMO? People. Friends. Community. I really liked many games, and I really quite them all because I couldn't find people to play with. Everquest - reached level 36+ as a gnome cleric, lost several levels trying to solo because I couldn't find anyone to play with regularly. Quit. Repeat this with many games, even when they got rid of loss of levels. Joined several major guilds, same deal. If nobody plays when you play, if nobody is willing to help out or group for whatever reason (like, they are all 80th level and you're level 10...). Community, grouping makes a game. I hate WoW, but I'd play it if I had people to help and group with. I'd even play Aion, or Champions, or Fallen Earth. Just need people to play with. My initial attraction is "what's new, innovative, challenging, different". I adore skill based games, and I hate them because I can't find a community. I hate class based games, but there is more community, just not one that I've found that I can play with on a regular basis. Champions Online really opened my eyes. Aion, which I originally hated, has a better atmosphere than Chamions, which I would normally love. All because of the people, and ability to group. Everquest 2 still pulls at me because of the sense of foced grouping and ability to find people to play with - I just can't find them. Repeat this over and over again between different games. I'm still looking for something to play. Maybe I'll give WoW a try again. Maybe EQ2. Maybe EQ1 on a mac just for the heck of it! Maybe AC. Maybe I'll try a new Asian MMO - I'm looking for one thing and I can't find it - community, people to play with and enjoy a few hours together. What attracts me? Innovation. Change. Systems. What keeps me? Community and people.
I agree whole-heartedly with you, in fact its one of the reasons i'm thinking about just stopping my sub on Champions in the next couple of days....just because its a single player game with multiple players walking around inside of it..NO ONE groups that I can tell...most of the time they won't even talk they just zoom by you on their way.....I play Wow, with a small family group, fallen earth solo and champion online solo and i'm not above level 10 on either of those....if you need someone to group up with your're welcome to join our family guild on wow we're on most nights and weekends for few hours and have alts and mains leveling between 1-80...i personally don't even have an 80 my highest is 73 on it right now...we're very casual...and all of us are working adults so only have that window after supper and bedtime to play...
If you wana try out those other 2, I go by Agamemnon on both so give me a holler, like I said i'm soloing mostly because not many people will talk with you let alone group on champions, and FE i'm just having fun learning not even to 10 yet...having fun in it though but i'm now finding it difficult to solo as a medic type build...
Hard to say, combination of research on forums such as these, reading articles/previews and a whole lot of gut feel.
Of course, studio's I liked previously get the nod, but then again, Mythic sort of destroyed that critiera. Blizzard has too in a way, because I believe they are only capable of making games that will be popular for the masses, which normally isn't to my liking.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I pick a MMO based on if it is fun for me to play. Simple requirement. I have played games people have hated on here such as FLYFF for a long time, from like Beta for 3 year on. I enjoyed every minute of it. Anyways I play them for fun. Right now I am playing Runes of Magic, DDO, and SUN. All are fun for me, In the pass I have played UO (great fun), still do sometimes..., EQ (wasn't that fun for me) FFXI (great fun), WoW (not that fun), Sword of the New World (fun usually) EQ2 (once again not that fun) Ryzom (favorite MMO I played, wish I could still afford-great fun)
Out of the 3 I am currently playing Sun is the most fun for me right now.
When I first look at the website, if I see "free to play" splashed across the screen, odds are high I close the page. Unless there's really something tremendous that grabs me.
Next I look for a FAQ page and see if there's any forced pvp at any point. If there is, I pass.
After those two, I'm fairly open to trying anything and I usually do. So it's more of what I don't want in my mmo, rather than what I do, that has me picking which to play. Then what determines whether or not I stay is how immersive the pve is and if there are other things to do like a fun crafting system or fluff activities.
I pick my MMOs pretty randomly, ignoring most of the hype and reviews and preferring to try most out just in case.
I do have to say I won't touch games by certain companies and try to avoid cartoony games. To keep me though, it's got to have great character customization in terms of appearance and skills, be a challenge but not leave me with a headache, and has to make me smile, laugh, jump or feel something other than annoyance; and most importantly it has to have others that I like playing with.
With me, I'll always try a game first before giving my opinion. I know you can't judge an MMO within the first three months of release. However, if I'm picked to beta test one, I'll never turn it down. But my list of things about the MMO is see if I'll continue to play it:
1. No gear system...I'm so sick of those, it's not even funny.
2. I know every MMO has grinding, but ... try to keep it at a min. Having little quests or missions to do before the next story arc is great.
3. Role play... 'nuff said.
4. A good pvp system.
5. A great community, what's an MMO without it's players.
6. Life like.
This list to me is the reason my MMO of up most choice is City of Heroes. PvP is still a little ...okay...a lot unbalanced, but the zone pvp is awesome, it maybe unbalanced, but it's hella fun due to the community. Radio Missions are fun with the role play involved. And it doesn't use a gear system.
Mega games I played and quit: WoW, CO (I know it's still new, but I just didn't like it. I hate cartoony looking MMOs.), LoTR, Guild Wars, Everquest, plus many more.
I choose my game basicaaly like i choose my console games too: If alot of guys say is good i doubt they are completly right maybe is just and aggresive merchandise phenomena like wow for example, i preferr fun over graphics, i prefer playability over durability ( but anice one is useful) and in case of mmorpg i chek if its freee cause its aextra point but if not i chek if it gives me alot for my rent ( fame or number of players dosent matter)
The biggest factor for me, and the first thing I always look at when choosing any game to play, is choice. I LOVE having choices, whether it's choice in race, class, outfits, colors, looks, skills, builds, stats, or things to do, I need them all. Not only do I love having choices, but I love having LOTS of them.
For example, Wonderland Online allows any player to get a tent (essentially a house) and decorate it however he or she pleases. Players can even change the outward appearance of their tent, although that's more challenging. In Mabinogi, there is a dye system that allows any player to change their outfit (and there are a TON of outfits) to any color they wish (literally, any).
Aside from looking really nice, I next look at skills and builds. Depending on other factors I might still try a game even if the skills and stat distribution is really structured, which brings me to my next focus.
In a word, gameplay. I'm one of those people that have to finish a quest, (HAVE to finish a quest) simply because it's there, sitting in the little "Yet-to-finish" column or window or tab or whatever. So, if there are LOTS of quests, that usually keeps me busy for a long time. But if the game lags a lot, or the community sucks, or the community is hard for me to get along with, I'll usually hit the bored stage pretty quickly.
As far as the company that developed the game, I don't mind so much. Developers (and everyone else that takes part in making a game) have to graduate college with a degree, so I personally believe that any company is capable of making a worth-while game. If the game sounds interesting enough, and it looks fun enough, I'll try it.
There's more, I'm sure, but this post is getting pretty long already, so I'll end it here. >.>
1. Immersion. I have been looking for a game to replace DAoC for years now, without luck. DAoC story was simple, but it offered people a lot of possibilities to make their own stories within the game. If I don't like the story/idea behind the game, then I won't play.
2. Gameplay: I want a game where I have to pay attention to what is going on and react accordingly. Again, DAoC with their melee system had me sitting at the edge of my seat for hours while we battled monsters. I don't like games with timers that need to be recycled. LotRO was wonderful as a setting, but gameplay ruined it as I often found my selv just hitting 1-2-3-4, back to 1 if it has recycled.
3. PvP: If a game puts PvP in there, then it must design the game with that in mind. Balanced classes are a must, and gameplay must reflect PvP-balance. LotRO placed a poor PvP zone in which I found few reasons to go to as it felt almost like a different game inside Middle-Earth.
4. PvP cont. If the game has PvP, it has to design its zones to that purpose. AoC failed miserably here as people could camp respawn points to harass other players. The fun of PvP is for me the hunt itself. Either sneaking around in search of other stealthers to fight or roaming as a group in search of prey. PvP also has to have a purpose. If PvP has no effect upon the world, then why spend time doing that?
5. Gear: Don't put separate PvE and PvP gear in the game. Design your game so that good gear will be good for both types of fighting. With AoC, this was the final straw for me. Also, don't make so much gear that I can change my outfit 2-3 times in an level. I don't need a new shiny axe that often. A new axe every few levels are acceptable, and don't make them bind to character. Annoying as hell for us who enjoys leveling alts to have to do every quest 2-4 times to keep up with the Joneses.
6. Quests: I prefer grinding to questing. When grinding you can gather a group and hang out for hours. When everyone has a ton of quests they wants to do, it becomes difficult to keep a group together, and must break up too quickly, which makes it difficult to get to know people outside one's guild.
7. Game progression: If people can max. out level in two weeks, I won't stick around for long. Then the game is just too easy. Getting to max.level should be an accomplishment. Getting to 50 in DAoC took me almost a year (I was a slow leveler), but felt good once I got there. Getting maxed out in LotRO and AoC took merely six months (and I had a ton of alts), and just depressed me.
Basically I am waiting for DAoC II, but that seems to be futile, so any games that is inspired by that game will earn a closer look. Unfortunately, no developers seem to be willing to take closer look at the features that made DAoC the legendary game it was.
Comments
1. Size of the gameplay world, geographically speaking, and freedom of movement in that world. Having over 500 square miles to explore in Asheron's Call was amazing. No zones, no loading screens, just a single instance. Just hundreds upon hundreds of square miles of woods, valleys, mountains, swamps, deserts, temples, towns, and dungeons to explore. Contrast that with something like AoC where when all the zones/areas are combined gives you maybe 25-30 square miles tops. Zones which are many times instanced to begin with.
2. Lore! Stop with the tolkienesque anglo-centric garbage already! Enough with the elves, orcs, dwarves, fairies and the rest. Lore-wise all these games nowadays are nothing more than spoon feed tolkienesque high-fantasy trash. It is really getting old after all these decades. (Yes, decades!) The same type of soft-fantasy junkola that was available gaming-wise back in the 80s is pretty much still around, only in the MMO form. With all the different fantasy/sci-fi material out there and massive amount of raw cultural myths why stick to anglo stuff? So much more cool stuff in african, slavic, or even far-east legends that is pretty much left untapped. I don't just avoid tolkienesque games, I don't play them period. Which is why I was attracted to AC back in 1999. (It was too much then, but after three LOTR movies, this stuff is everywhere now.)
3. Content saturation. Not only does the world need to be large, unrestrictive, and freelance-friendly, as per #1, but there needs to be plenty of content to nicely fill out those hundreds of square miles. Hundreds of square miles of random rocks and trees is pretty worthless. If Turbine could do it (with heavy backing and funding from Microsoft at the time) back in 1996, then what is the problem now, after nearly 15 years, and in an era where game development budgets rival that of hollywood movies and where relevant technology has advanced many times over. My guess? Incompetence and greed. (Standard MMO Project Manager: Let's get the game out of the door ASAP and let the money roll in! Product quality, lore, content? Waz dat?! Moar elves! Teh kids like dat! )
You know ,i was finding a hard time to explain myself ,thinking only a novel could explain all the criteria i look for,but this pretty much sums it up for me as well.
The "to get lost in" part sums up all content areas as well,the more in depth,the more mechanics ...basically more more it has ,i am giving the game a good chance.
A game based pretty much on PVP is also a turn off,i find developers have been using PVP as the sole reason to sell their games,the RPG part of the games has somewhere been lost or forgotten.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
well, for me there are only 3 really important questions:
Is it pve focused (I really dont like games where you more or less have to participate in pvp)
Does it have crafting?
Does it have a lot of soloable content?
if answer to all 3 is yes, than any game has chance - I am then studying the info about that game (its webpages, reviews, forums) and if it seems interesting to me, i do try it and if i like it, i stay,
For me as a person that is busy with lots of crap in real life , i cant and i dont want to be in a guild and be a hardcore player. so i've been looking for a game that rewards lone pvp players in a way... and not being a zerg/premade contest and usually without any reward. right now there isnt a game like t his out there...looking forward to Mortal Online...but thats a small company with limited budget .. so yeh thats my story.
I'm replying to the orignal article, haven't read the 80+ posts.
I started long before there were graphics - text based games. I loved the grind, I hated the grind, then everquest invited me to alpha their game. I declined - I was too immersed in my text based game. That lasted 9 years.
Since then, I've tried every major (and many minor) MMOs (MMORPGs, MRPGs, whatever) that has been released. At times I wanted a free-form sandbox game, skill based. At times, I found defined roles very fun. Most of the time, I would subscribe just long enough to try and figure out the mechanics - what makes this game unique, what makes it tick, what new innovations does this game bring to the market. Even today I'll pay the 50 bucks and a free month to see what's new in the industry. That's not what I really want though - it's just what attracts me to each new game.
How do I pick my MMO? People. Friends. Community.
I really liked many games, and I really quite them all because I couldn't find people to play with.
Everquest - reached level 36+ as a gnome cleric, lost several levels trying to solo because I couldn't find anyone to play with regularly. Quit.
Repeat this with many games, even when they got rid of loss of levels. Joined several major guilds, same deal. If nobody plays when you play, if nobody is willing to help out or group for whatever reason (like, they are all 80th level and you're level 10...).
Community, grouping makes a game. I hate WoW, but I'd play it if I had people to help and group with. I'd even play Aion, or Champions, or Fallen Earth. Just need people to play with.
My initial attraction is "what's new, innovative, challenging, different". I adore skill based games, and I hate them because I can't find a community. I hate class based games, but there is more community, just not one that I've found that I can play with on a regular basis.
Champions Online really opened my eyes. Aion, which I originally hated, has a better atmosphere than Chamions, which I would normally love. All because of the people, and ability to group. Everquest 2 still pulls at me because of the sense of foced grouping and ability to find people to play with - I just can't find them. Repeat this over and over again between different games.
I'm still looking for something to play. Maybe I'll give WoW a try again. Maybe EQ2. Maybe EQ1 on a mac just for the heck of it! Maybe AC. Maybe I'll try a new Asian MMO - I'm looking for one thing and I can't find it - community, people to play with and enjoy a few hours together.
What attracts me? Innovation. Change. Systems. What keeps me? Community and people.
Great article. That first screen shot for me is sometimes make or break. I too have a favorite class. The high elf. Something about those snobby know it alls that remind me so much of myself lol. Choosing studying of the arts and discipline, in a military esque society, is interesting to me.
Warhammer online nailed it with the Archmage. It was incredibly fun, and meaningful, to super charge your healing spells by using damaging spells on your enemies.
Balance in pvp is above all else the deciding factor. Can i work hard at my class and equally take on any other class 1 on 1 in the game? Im a duelist by nature. Hellgate London had this.
I thought Atlantica online had it too, but sadly the item mall through everything out of wack.
I should have read this post first. I feel exactly the same way. I want to win in pvp one on one. Just questing solo when i have the time in my busy life and randomly duel someone or initiate pvp in a certain zone with someone, and actually stand a chance. Stand a chance because of class balance and individual player skill. I could lose and be satisfied if i knew it was from not disrupting a spell on time, or being kited to death because his/her skill was better than my own. That would feel great.
If you havent tried Atlantica Online, Devil, you should give it a try. People who play that game love to duel and love to pvp and at the lower lvls the game is pretty balanced..... IMHO. Later on the gear starts to matter bigtime and item mall spenders have a very distinct advantage. Better yet, let me rephrase that. Gold buyers have an advantage. The pvp is so much fun though.
Damn i think i may go redownload it but Tekken 6 is coming out Wednesday and Borderlands has my attention atm. Sorry i think i derailed myself off the topic lol.
Setting, gameplay and character customization which includes loot (armors and weapons).
For me it is they type game it is. The cost of course.
Is it fun or just too hard to learn? There was one game I tried once that was really a fun game. Nice graphics and such but you could not use arrow or wasd to move. It was click, click, and more click. If I wanted click I would play Diablo/Diablo2. Other than that it was really a nice game but it was not set up to use those features at all. Thus I bid the game goodbye. Forgive me for those that like to click. I am not one of those. It is funny what will turn someone away from a game.
Graphics are nice but a game can have fair graphics and still over a lot of fun things that make up for the lack of. Crafting and questing is another thing I look at. I am still in search of useful crafting in the type game I like. I am not into the Sci-Fi games so it is not likely I would even play them.
Story line and quest. Quests are or can be fun. They can also be pointless with poor rewards. Many times quest can give you a feel for how much thought and planning was put into a game. Quests should be fun but should pull you into the story and lore of the game. Advance you forward, be rewarding and not be too long or difficult.
I have found that many games after reaching a certain level you will pretty much need a group. If this is the case and groups are hard to come by this will turn me away. I spent many hours in EQ trying to get a group to complete this quest or that quest. NO FUN and a waste of my time and money. I played EQ for many years and this did not get any better, only worse. There was no class if you just plain didn't have time to spend on raiding and waiting hours to get a group that you could at least solo through some questing content after a certain. The game was designed and dependent on groups. Some classes needed groups sooner the Cleric and Enchanter come to mind as I played both. A warrior leveled faster but was dependent on at least a healer type. At least in WoW you can solo content and progress forward without being group dependent. Groups are also easier to find. Finding groups can also depend on server time and area most on the server are based in. This does not mean where the server is based but what part of the country or world. If this info is not easy to find you can end up on a server that brings you total displeasure.
People that work do not want to spend their precious limited time looking for groups so they can play and have fun so if your friends don't play you want or I do a game that I can meet need friends. I think many of us enjoy the social part of a game as well.
Going back to crafting, it seems most games put the crafting in to give players something to do to reduce boredom maybe. /shrug But if you spend all that time and cost for a crafting skill it would be really nice to be able to get your money back at least. This is rarely ever the case and in most case you just sell the item for little to nothing because no one wants it. Very sad but this could be another story to take on.
Gikku
Well, I'm not sure how to approach this because I don't really have a particular order, but if I did:
The first thing I generally look at in MMOs, besides the title, is the genre. I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick of fantasy games. Pretty much two factors will get me to choose a fantasy game, fine... three. The game has to be solid, and probably have cartoony/different graphics (the gritty masks the games wear now days get real old real fast) if it doesn't want to incorporate something new. I remember Adsa Story, when I saw it, I got it immediately, because it seemed solid, it didn't overdo itself with realism, and it had some new interesting features. I didn't stay with the game long though, I forget the reason why, because I kinda liked it, it was fresh, different, and didn't give me headaches, even though the game was more than alittle kiddish.
Through that paragraph of self exploration comes a quick gear-change. I guess I look at genre more than anything because I want something new. SciFi is relatively new, and it's relatively different, in most cases. Same with other genres, like racing, action, and shooter. Really, I'd play anything to escape WoW with nittier and grittier graphics and some major changes, including the removal of the polish. Though, I have seen some fantasy games that have taken a step outside of the box. Atlantica, for example: I hate turn based combat, and I Loved Atlantica, until I stopped playing.
World of Warcraft might be the only pure fantasy game I've played for more than a month. Through all the sameyness it had, it always managed to differ from the clones. Sure, Runes of Magic had that dual class system, but WoW had... everything that most fantasy games had, in one game. On top of that, the graphics were cartoony, yet looked good. Though... even with all WoW had to offer, I found myself with the same problem I had with most fantasy games: it just got old. Sure, every new expansion offered new areas, instance, and some game mechanics in the size of fun size snickers bars, but beyone all that, it was the same crap.
--Gimmicks will get me to download a game and play it, but they won't get me to keep playing, or I'd still be grinding in Flyff because I like combat and I like flying.
By something different, I mean a game like Space Cowboy Online, the old-school Ace-Online (AirRivals I belive on this site's game roster.) Sure, you grinded, alot, and sure, it got really annoying after level 45 where you were guaranteed a gank by a level 86 B-gear, but on top of little things like the fact that if you were good enough, you could take that 86 down (if he was really horrible too I might add) and the fact that in that game, you flew an earthbound spaceship of sorts. It was like an online Starfox. It had its problems (or I'd still play it) like the ardous amounts of grind, and the forced PvP.
Taikodom was different too, but the game was bugged to hell and maybe it was because of those bugs, but I was left without direction with something I wasn't used to. Right now I play S4Leage, because of its difference. It's not an RPG, rather a Third Person Shooter, but it does things alot differently than even games of that genre.
So, where I'm getting with here, in the massive wall of text fueled by a headache and nostalgia, is that if a game's different than the same crap everyone in the game development department sticks with, 90% of the time I will try it.
If it's solid, and looks solid, if I try it, I'll more than likely try it and keep playing it. If it's different and solid... I'll probably not let go of that game until what made it different is cliche again.
There's also combat. I'm one of those people who play MMOs have a killing fetish or something. The first thing I will do unless I stop myself is grind; combat is fun for me. If the game incorporates it well, the the game will be that much more fun for me. I refuse to right click on something, press the same buttons over and over with no skill until the enemy I'm fighting falls over. It's another reason why I played WoW, because the class/spec I was (Fire Mage) required real skill to play, and gave a rush. Notice: required. The combat has to be fast paced for me, and though that may not be what everyone likes, I do. I acually thought up a combat system that I'm gonna try to put into my game if it ends up being more than a biped walking around a level. It basically has WoW style click to use spells, but you also have the option to go into a more advanced level of combat (aiming spells, blocking manually, and attacking like in an action RPG, which would be alot harder, and more rewarding) and back to samey point and click with the press of a button. Options like that, would be nice to see.
I do look at race too, at the very least, if the game doesn't have the mentioned above, it has to have elves, well put together elves at that; not just humans with pointy ears and more intelligence. If there was one thing I liked about WoW aside from its solidness and the near limitless things to do, they just did elves right. At least I think so, but that's just me, I like blood elves, and think that that's what elves should be modeled after, just, less addicted to magic, less betrayed, and less hated by the masses who pay attention (but not enough) to lore.
On top of that, if I'm gonna be an elf, I want to be a mage. The two were meant for eachother, and mages, usually require more skill to use from my experience, making for more exiting combat.
The community has some to do with my decision too... if the game is full of... well... trolls... I'll be more inclined to just close the game and play Solitare for the next 2 hours. Self proclaimed superiors get on my nerves too, and make me more inclined to close the game and post how I think I choose games pretending anyone cares. Well, really, I hope this gets read by future game desgners, or some of the companies out there, because if there's one thing I stressed to the companies more than anything here, it's as follows:
So Twinmill, what did we learn today?
I learned that if I post raw thought when I have a headache, making it make sense is the hardes thing ever, even for an avid writer like myself. Enjoy the clutter, though, the answer lies in the bolded, centered text. And now, I'm off to redownload RF Online thanks to the massive wave of nostalgia I just recieved. It's a fine game if I still want to play it even after they deleted my account due to me being inactive when they did the provider switch.
People that put themselves above others put me in a bad mood.
http://www.surrealtwilight.com/index.php
^Has nothing to do with that retarded Vampire Novel Series, I swear!^
I really don't buy into the reputation of the gamemaker for choosing a game. Some companies just don't spend enough on their marketing department or possess the brains for marketing, and that should not doom any product. SOE for instance doomed lots of games with their lack of marketing. And even though they did screw up some games big time, most of their products, which are quality top of the line product, are just unfairly judged because of their lack of visibility and horrible marketing strategy.
For me, I would go with paid games first and foremost. It will take more convincing for me to "try" F2P games, since most of the games are not obliged to keep the players interested in the starter zone. P2P games however are concerned with keeping players after the first 30 days. This mean that at the very least, the starter zone of the game ought to be the very best that the game could offer at launch. This will allow me to really find out the potential of the game and company to really stick with the game.
I agree whole-heartedly with you, in fact its one of the reasons i'm thinking about just stopping my sub on Champions in the next couple of days....just because its a single player game with multiple players walking around inside of it..NO ONE groups that I can tell...most of the time they won't even talk they just zoom by you on their way.....I play Wow, with a small family group, fallen earth solo and champion online solo and i'm not above level 10 on either of those....if you need someone to group up with your're welcome to join our family guild on wow we're on most nights and weekends for few hours and have alts and mains leveling between 1-80...i personally don't even have an 80 my highest is 73 on it right now...we're very casual...and all of us are working adults so only have that window after supper and bedtime to play...
If you wana try out those other 2, I go by Agamemnon on both so give me a holler, like I said i'm soloing mostly because not many people will talk with you let alone group on champions, and FE i'm just having fun learning not even to 10 yet...having fun in it though but i'm now finding it difficult to solo as a medic type build...
http://www.forceofarms.com/index.php
Graphics have to be appealing and lately, if it doesn't say elf, dwarf, orc or undead anywhere on the box I might give it a try.
Hard to say, combination of research on forums such as these, reading articles/previews and a whole lot of gut feel.
Of course, studio's I liked previously get the nod, but then again, Mythic sort of destroyed that critiera. Blizzard has too in a way, because I believe they are only capable of making games that will be popular for the masses, which normally isn't to my liking.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
at first my whole guild moved to another game and i went.. but stayed there for 5 years.. now i like the quests and the artwork and the gameplay ..
Playing daoc and loving it totally..
have Played
Eq,Eq2,WoW,Coh,Cov,
and other..
which i have forgotten..
I pick a MMO based on if it is fun for me to play. Simple requirement. I have played games people have hated on here such as FLYFF for a long time, from like Beta for 3 year on. I enjoyed every minute of it. Anyways I play them for fun. Right now I am playing Runes of Magic, DDO, and SUN. All are fun for me, In the pass I have played UO (great fun), still do sometimes..., EQ (wasn't that fun for me) FFXI (great fun), WoW (not that fun), Sword of the New World (fun usually) EQ2 (once again not that fun) Ryzom (favorite MMO I played, wish I could still afford-great fun)
Out of the 3 I am currently playing Sun is the most fun for me right now.
Dustin
When I first look at the website, if I see "free to play" splashed across the screen, odds are high I close the page. Unless there's really something tremendous that grabs me.
Next I look for a FAQ page and see if there's any forced pvp at any point. If there is, I pass.
After those two, I'm fairly open to trying anything and I usually do. So it's more of what I don't want in my mmo, rather than what I do, that has me picking which to play. Then what determines whether or not I stay is how immersive the pve is and if there are other things to do like a fun crafting system or fluff activities.
Some very good reads in this thread.
I pick my MMOs pretty randomly, ignoring most of the hype and reviews and preferring to try most out just in case.
I do have to say I won't touch games by certain companies and try to avoid cartoony games. To keep me though, it's got to have great character customization in terms of appearance and skills, be a challenge but not leave me with a headache, and has to make me smile, laugh, jump or feel something other than annoyance; and most importantly it has to have others that I like playing with.
With me, I'll always try a game first before giving my opinion. I know you can't judge an MMO within the first three months of release. However, if I'm picked to beta test one, I'll never turn it down. But my list of things about the MMO is see if I'll continue to play it:
1. No gear system...I'm so sick of those, it's not even funny.
2. I know every MMO has grinding, but ... try to keep it at a min. Having little quests or missions to do before the next story arc is great.
3. Role play... 'nuff said.
4. A good pvp system.
5. A great community, what's an MMO without it's players.
6. Life like.
This list to me is the reason my MMO of up most choice is City of Heroes. PvP is still a little ...okay...a lot unbalanced, but the zone pvp is awesome, it maybe unbalanced, but it's hella fun due to the community. Radio Missions are fun with the role play involved. And it doesn't use a gear system.
Mega games I played and quit: WoW, CO (I know it's still new, but I just didn't like it. I hate cartoony looking MMOs.), LoTR, Guild Wars, Everquest, plus many more.
You my say I'm picky, and I'll agree with you.
I choose my game basicaaly like i choose my console games too: If alot of guys say is good i doubt they are completly right maybe is just and aggresive merchandise phenomena like wow for example, i preferr fun over graphics, i prefer playability over durability ( but anice one is useful) and in case of mmorpg i chek if its freee cause its aextra point but if not i chek if it gives me alot for my rent ( fame or number of players dosent matter)
DARK AND LIGHT I GOVERN BOTH
Here is how I chose my mmo. I look to see if it says: Final Fantasy XI. If it doesn't, there is a good chance I won't play it.
One day: FFXIV.
Peace.
Throw a dart at a dartboard that has MMO names over it, and thats what i play that day
The biggest factor for me, and the first thing I always look at when choosing any game to play, is choice. I LOVE having choices, whether it's choice in race, class, outfits, colors, looks, skills, builds, stats, or things to do, I need them all. Not only do I love having choices, but I love having LOTS of them.
For example, Wonderland Online allows any player to get a tent (essentially a house) and decorate it however he or she pleases. Players can even change the outward appearance of their tent, although that's more challenging. In Mabinogi, there is a dye system that allows any player to change their outfit (and there are a TON of outfits) to any color they wish (literally, any).
Aside from looking really nice, I next look at skills and builds. Depending on other factors I might still try a game even if the skills and stat distribution is really structured, which brings me to my next focus.
In a word, gameplay. I'm one of those people that have to finish a quest, (HAVE to finish a quest) simply because it's there, sitting in the little "Yet-to-finish" column or window or tab or whatever. So, if there are LOTS of quests, that usually keeps me busy for a long time. But if the game lags a lot, or the community sucks, or the community is hard for me to get along with, I'll usually hit the bored stage pretty quickly.
As far as the company that developed the game, I don't mind so much. Developers (and everyone else that takes part in making a game) have to graduate college with a degree, so I personally believe that any company is capable of making a worth-while game. If the game sounds interesting enough, and it looks fun enough, I'll try it.
There's more, I'm sure, but this post is getting pretty long already, so I'll end it here. >.>
1. Immersion. I have been looking for a game to replace DAoC for years now, without luck. DAoC story was simple, but it offered people a lot of possibilities to make their own stories within the game. If I don't like the story/idea behind the game, then I won't play.
2. Gameplay: I want a game where I have to pay attention to what is going on and react accordingly. Again, DAoC with their melee system had me sitting at the edge of my seat for hours while we battled monsters. I don't like games with timers that need to be recycled. LotRO was wonderful as a setting, but gameplay ruined it as I often found my selv just hitting 1-2-3-4, back to 1 if it has recycled.
3. PvP: If a game puts PvP in there, then it must design the game with that in mind. Balanced classes are a must, and gameplay must reflect PvP-balance. LotRO placed a poor PvP zone in which I found few reasons to go to as it felt almost like a different game inside Middle-Earth.
4. PvP cont. If the game has PvP, it has to design its zones to that purpose. AoC failed miserably here as people could camp respawn points to harass other players. The fun of PvP is for me the hunt itself. Either sneaking around in search of other stealthers to fight or roaming as a group in search of prey. PvP also has to have a purpose. If PvP has no effect upon the world, then why spend time doing that?
5. Gear: Don't put separate PvE and PvP gear in the game. Design your game so that good gear will be good for both types of fighting. With AoC, this was the final straw for me. Also, don't make so much gear that I can change my outfit 2-3 times in an level. I don't need a new shiny axe that often. A new axe every few levels are acceptable, and don't make them bind to character. Annoying as hell for us who enjoys leveling alts to have to do every quest 2-4 times to keep up with the Joneses.
6. Quests: I prefer grinding to questing. When grinding you can gather a group and hang out for hours. When everyone has a ton of quests they wants to do, it becomes difficult to keep a group together, and must break up too quickly, which makes it difficult to get to know people outside one's guild.
7. Game progression: If people can max. out level in two weeks, I won't stick around for long. Then the game is just too easy. Getting to max.level should be an accomplishment. Getting to 50 in DAoC took me almost a year (I was a slow leveler), but felt good once I got there. Getting maxed out in LotRO and AoC took merely six months (and I had a ton of alts), and just depressed me.
Basically I am waiting for DAoC II, but that seems to be futile, so any games that is inspired by that game will earn a closer look. Unfortunately, no developers seem to be willing to take closer look at the features that made DAoC the legendary game it was.