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What would make SWTOR trully great
Beermangler
Member UncommonPosts: 402
...And sadly will never be implemented because the mechanics and engine are already in place.
What SWTOR (and 98% of all the other MMOs out there) miss, is dynamic territory control - EVE or WWIIOL -ish.
Without it, players are - and always will be - playing within same old boundaries, same old jurisdictions. This frustrating sittuation, In my very humble opinion, is what drives 'veteran' WoW players away from the game. Here you have basically the same SWTOR setting - two factions at war since the beginning of time, which somehow fail to gain an inch of land in the detriment of the other faction.
Wouldn't you, as an Horde, just love to be able to take over, lets say... Darkshire! Thus establishing a bridgehead for launching relentless attacks on Stormwind! And wouldn't you, as an Ally, in this case, be more compelled to play and engage in the war and try to drive off the invaders at your doorstep? Wouldn't you rather have that instead of instantialized battlegrounds?
Again, in my very humble opinion, kiddie mentality of graphics over gameplay led to this stalemate over time. I would love to have procedurally generated planets in SWTOR at the detriment of nice graphics and thus be able to explore, to conquer new territories for my faction and to defend them. Just imagine the possibilities! Instead, we have a bunch of highly polished static planets out of an entire galaxy. Meh...
Any thoughts?
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
Comments
This game won't even have territory, much less dynamic territory. It's just a series of instance hubs with scripted single player/diablo style missions and maybe one city hub to give the illusion of being an MMO.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Yes, totally agreed on the 'illusion of being a MMO' part *sigh*
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
I'm 100% for anything that lets the player actually change the outlook of the world. What really is the purpose of PvP or RvR if all you get is loot? There is no combining/overall goal for players to strive towards as a team.
It would be nice if guilds colonized planets, built their own cities, had the best access to resources .. and were 100% attackable on those worlds. You'd WANT to defend your world because it was yours. Be a great way to throw in an exploration skill for pilots too. They travel to distant stars and try to discover asteroids, planets, or ruined stations that might be colonizable for a guild. Sell those waypoints to a leader for fat loot, and expand the territory of your empire.
But that requires things that a casual player doesn't want to invest themselves in.
Horde being able to take over Darkshire is an absolutely terrible idea and is precisely why Blizzard never implemented it. You don't do serous harm to the pve players (the vast majority of the wow player base) to appease the 10% of the mouth-breathing pvp population.
So no, I'm very happy with the way things are now. TOR is like most MMOs a pve experience first, if you want "hardcore" pvp try Darkfall.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Vagrant, it was just an example. I too am a fan of PVE, not much of a PVP-er. I'd never even get close to Darkfall.
I was just laying out an idea here - two factions locked in battle but unable to actually accomplish anything that impacts the world/universe.
On the other hand, EVE and WWIIOL both have excellent game concepts but poor implementation - point and click combat for the first and long downtimes (walking distances) for the second. You actually have a reason to be involved in PVP other than mindless ganking for bragging rights.
<insert flaming here, after quote ends>
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
The graphics have nothing to do with the fact of dynamic territory. The game isn't supposed to be a super duper pvp galore game. Sure the theory of that gameplay mechanic would be neat but it's too competitive and into the pve aspect, along with possibly tearing the lore of the game if you're into that for one side finally dominating the whole universe.
Would be a fun aspect, but would collide with other things in the game too much.
Mavado, you're right about the lore being disrupted and the possibility of one faction ultimately dominating the world. But you can have 'safe spots' for both factions that would be impossible to conquer, which allows for a comeback and also a place for lowbies to learn the game.
The lore should only matter as an introduction. Why bother playing when your 'destiny' is hard-coded? Sure, you can have multiple decisions on how to approach a quest (as seen in the videos) but ultimately they lead to... nothing special, since other players sharing your 'race' will follow your exact steps. You have absolutely no impact on the world. Furthermore, killing a person (or more) in PVP also has absolutely no relevance in the world. Even killing an NPC leader is pointless since he'll just respawn.
I guess I`m just ahead of MMO times
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
From my understanding the Hero engine runs seamless
http://www.heroengine.com/
Also I read that they will have instances just like most TP mmos but most of the world will be open, they don't want the game to feel instance like DDO or GW, so it's safe to say they are going the WoW route a massive seamless world with instance Dungens and Phasing for the story driven quest.
This game will be solid and have a very large player base, I trust Bioware to do the right thing and that takes alot for me as I lost alot of trust in most Game Dev. over the years, Bioware keeps pumping out Hit after Hit, just like Blizzard, Bioware and Blizzard no matter how much you hate them make kick ass games point blank.
Yes, totally agreed on the 'illusion of being a MMO' part *sigh*
How is it an illusion unless you literally choose to play alone? Being given the option to group is far more effective in both gameplay and game sales then being forced to group with people you're not interested in getting to know and that is is barely the problem with forced grouping. One major popular city has been mentioned but apparently people have very selective memories, deciding to cast aside any other information that has been given. What about Cantinas , have you seen them? They are pretty massive in comparison to SWG bland excuse for a social location. And the one that was displayed is located on Hutta. How about Balmorra the suspected PvP planet? It's purpose from pure speculation seems to offer players a place to pull together and engage one another in combat, of coarse this will be a place of conversation and strategy. As will any other place you visit.
His Diablo excuse holds no ground here when you have little to no information at hand and not because it is to far off to tell, it's because you have ignored everything presented to you. Have you not read the articles where the Devs expressed exactly how social this game will be? You will see players in a distance, they will pass you by, they can communicate with you. You are not in a area by yourself . It's up to you to converse with other players.
L2Research.
When they stop catering to the younglings is when this game will be great. I'm not exactly a fan of the stylized-realism look but I'll work with it. Kotor was released in 2003, the fanbase for that game has to be anywhere from 25 and up. Why are we getting a game that my 7 year old nphew would find appealing ? Star Wars is for all ages but it mostly caters to the older mature crowd. It is a shame EA and Lucas Arts are counting those dollars even before we get the game released.
Batman The Animated Series was a cartoon aimed at children and to this day is still one of the best written shows ever (cartoon or otherwise).
A little closer to home the Clone Wars TV Show also aimed at children is slowly starting to reach levels of epic awesomeness (the last episode was mind blowingly great) that the movies could never aspire to.
So of course people are absolutely free to mire themselves in their own self-suffocating stupidity and refuse to give things they view as "kiddie" a chance to prove otherwise, however in the meantime the rest of us are going to be enjoying our Batmans and Clone Wars.
Maybe you could learn a thing or 2 from your 7 year old nephew?
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
the only way this game is going to be a success is if you rabid fanboys stop overhyping the hell outta the game. Half the games that have come out in recent years would have been fine if they weren't hyped to the point that anything less then god like would make them bad.
Hyping ToR? Are you sure they are not just discussing the game. Can you direct me to the "fanboy hype" please, I can't seem to find any. I don't see much if any "WoW killer" posts either. I'm starting to think the haters are the reason for the hype, do you disagree?
Batman The Animated Series was a cartoon aimed at children and to this day is still one of the best written shows ever (cartoon or otherwise).
A little closer to home the Clone Wars TV Show also aimed at children is slowly starting to reach levels of epic awesomeness (the last episode was mind blowingly great) that the movies could never aspire to.
So of course people are absolutely free to mire themselves in their own self-suffocating stupidity and refuse to give things they view as "kiddie" a chance to prove otherwise, however in the meantime the rest of us are going to be enjoying our Batmans and Clone Wars.
Maybe you could learn a thing or 2 from your 7 year old nephew?
I think you are missing the point but thats not too shocking.
That would be a great idea, if everyone loved pvp and possibly getting butt raped by people 10x their level as their walking through a city trying to do quests. So no offense to your intelligent opinion but they have to cater to more than just one type of gamer.
anyone who thinks the clone wars is great is a 7 year old but back to the game i would of loved this game if it had some challenge in it but as bioware stated their targeting the casual gamers so basically the newbs and pvp will be newb friendly so anyone above 21 be prepared to be owned by a 4 year old.
Anyone that spells I as i is a 7 year old.
DiD uZ C WUT i DId THaR!
You didn't make a point. You just made noise.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Funny how your mark the age you currently are, what happens next do you move it to "Any above 22"? So one year ago a 4 year old was incappable of owning you in games. If you're getting beat by a 4 year old, it has nothing to do with being casual, you're just bad. Furthermore if you're getting beat by a casual gamer, while claiming to be hardcore, you're even worse. Have you even watched the Clone Wars series? What exactly is the main attraction to a 7 year old and is the reason it shouldn't appeal to an adult. Please, your insecurities are the reason you have this mind set, have you never watched a cartoon?
look the whole reason why south park and many people have said george lucas has sold his soul to the devil is because he has turned the franchise into a joke the franchise was good until he started making cartoons for kids and compelely destroying the lore when the droids started cracking jokes in the first few minutes of the film and started screaming when they were guna die i turned it off. i grew up on starwars its been 1 of the better franchises around but dumbing it down for stupid wow fan boys and kids for the old republic makes skill not a nessecity and more of a none requirement. In wow the pvp is exactly the same less skill based more equipement based. i'll list you a few hardcore games that require skill not all mmo's and then ill list you a few games that dont.
Global Agenda, Darkfall, any fps without auto aim are all skill based
Games that are not are wow, aion, and the old republic
see when you sell your soul to the devil and dumb the game down so anyone and their grand mother can complete the game you lose all skill requirement and thats what bioware have done if you havent watched the trooper video where he just runs in takes on 20+ mobs dies and then instant resses on the spot and then says "you all get the instant ress button" you know you made a game worse than wow and i hate wow for the simple fact that it sold its soul to the corporations.
I disagree. A Star Wars game needs these to be great:
Let me save you some time actually, here is the image, so no more denial?
Let me save you some time actually, here is the image, so no more denial?
Ok stop right there my jump to conclusion based on nothing
1. I had the ewoks film
2. i played wow for 6 months and aion for the beta weekends, what you also dont know about me is im swg beta vet i was in FoE on bria for those that know, I've played every mmo under the sun trying to find 1 i like i was also in Irresistable Blokes (rank 3 guild for 2 years in gw) spamming skills is not skill.
3. Your basing your arguement on nothing related to the game at all oh and he did say clearly "you all get one of these" when he talked about a self res
I don't.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
WAR tried what you are describing to a certain extent, but I think the bigger problem is getting the community to act like a community instead of a group of players all out for themselves. There needs to be some kind of deeper reason to taking over an enemies territory than just loot rewards. There has to be a reason to want to help your faction succeed; to want to help every single player on your side do well. Something that builds comeradarie, loyalty, and pride among your teamates.
Also, it would be great if instead of just making more and more content, the devs could just rearrange the old stuff. One of the big problems with new territory and content in updates and expansions is that it separates the community too much in my opinion. If it were a PvP game, they could randomize the terrain after one side wins, to promote scouting for resources. Something to keep things fresh without having to make things bigger. Population density is a key factor to good community in my opinion.
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