I'm sorry, but once someone actually uses the term "carebear" they lose any and all credibility.
I know i will lose all credibility but i will say it though. WAR is carebear game and main reason for me to quit. I am resubbing immediately when they open some hardcore server with nice death penalty. Such server should of course have some bonuses like 50% more exp etc. More risk means greater rewards right?
Playing: Rohan Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
If you think they rewarded losing, then you were playing a competely different Warhammer then i did. And doesn't sound like you were never apart of getting zerged 24/7. Tell me before they changed the game to what it is now because of population. How really rewarding is it, getting locked out of your city for 18hours at times, or having your city rank on a constant one star. So you weren't able to do any city dungeons to get Sen gear, or the fact you were left with no real SC options or not being able to really do any ORvR. Because the other side is to busy trying to do stage 2 yet again.... when they told you all of your base are belong to us. It only made matters worse when a good deal of people quit because of it... which isn't rewarding.. you need numbers in a numbers game. Yea all that was real fricken rewarding, and if you want to use the whole.. "Well they reward you exp and money for doing a sc quest"..... Please that boat isn't floating man.
PS
For the peoples misuse of the word Carebear. Really are you guy's fricken twelve year's old?
I've been thinking of a good place to put this post, decided here. The title is the point, but I'll elaborate:
So, like almost everyone, I quit warhammer (this month) and decided to head back to WoW, started a new character on a pvp server. While leveling, some level 80 death knight comes along, one shots me and starts corpse camping, and it hit me, Warhammer, even ORVR servers, is carebear. I played on an ORVR server, and they are freakin carebear compared to WoW.....which is sad. It is physically impossible to have a similar scenario in Warhammer and warhammer is supposed to be about...well, war. I think this is where everything went wrong. It really is WoW light, the focus is heavily on RvE and PvE and NOT PvP.
I guess I'll see you all in WoW, gotta get to 80 before cataclysm. And as an aside, star wars is geared at the 12 year olds watching the cartoons currently on TV, not the fans that have been following it for year. So I wouldn't get your hopes up about it.
A game need to let high level players kill and camp newbs to be a real pvp game or hardcore?
Does that sound fucking stupid to anyone else?
The original poster is saying the warhammer is "carebear" compared to wow.... AND THAT IS SAD.
Obviously they do not consider wow to be hardcore pvp and considers warhammer to be further away than wow is.... which is sad [for a game that is supposed to be about war being everywhere]. I'm not sure why so many people failed to understand what the original poster was saying.
I agree. Get rid of the big carebear walls that separate the factions and let them be in each others faces from level one. WAR is everywhere... I mean, only in RvR lakes and Instances.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
If ganking for you = hardcore, then yes WAR will be too 'Carebear' for you.
If you're the sort of person that thinks ganking lower levels = skill, then I think WAR will be a better game without you for most players.
For me, ganking is nothing but a twisted and somewhat bizarre way to get your rocks off. It suggests to me you are a person whose company I'd rather avoid, both in and out of game.
Playing: Ableton Live 8 ~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
I still find it funny, people who play WoW of all games... calling War care bear of all thing's. WoW is the biggest pussified game on the market right now... some how griefing apparently = hardcore. Why are you guy's not playing a game like Darkfall.... to much to handle???
I still find it funny, people who play WoW of all games... calling War care bear of all thing's. WoW is the biggest pussified game on the market right now... some how griefing apparently = hardcore. Why are you guy's not playing a game like Darkfall.... to much to handle???
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
I still find it funny, people who play WoW of all games... calling War care bear of all thing's. WoW is the biggest pussified game on the market right now... some how griefing apparently = hardcore. Why are you guy's not playing a game like Darkfall.... to much to handle???
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Sigh, no offense but i don't give a crap... about why *you* don't like DF.
I still find it funny, people who play WoW of all games... calling War care bear of all thing's. WoW is the biggest pussified game on the market right now... some how griefing apparently = hardcore. Why are you guy's not playing a game like Darkfall.... to much to handle???
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Enough people play DF and enjoy it, and after the Expansion alot more will come in. You will be on the sidelines still whining like a little baby on the forums not having fun
A game need to let high level players kill and camp newbs to be a real pvp game or hardcore?
Does that sound fucking stupid to anyone else?
It's bad PvP, but it is hardcore. I like the way PvP is divided up in Warhammer. I also like how a swarm of T1s can kill a single T2.
It's other aspects of the PvP I don't like. Like rewarding losing. PvP should never reward losing.
umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE.
And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times.
War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE.
War IS a PvP game, WoW is NOT. War relies on population balance to make the game even remotely fun. Comparing War and WoW is like comparing apples to oranges. While they are both fruits (MMOs) they are different in a lot more ways.
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
If ganking for you = hardcore, then yes WAR will be too 'Carebear' for you.
If you're the sort of person that thinks ganking lower levels = skill, then I think WAR will be a better game without you for most players.
For me, ganking is nothing but a twisted and somewhat bizarre way to get your rocks off. It suggests to me you are a person whose company I'd rather avoid, both in and out of game.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Hacking, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with ganking. Its really quite sad when people have to cheat to win.
Because of this thread i had to google what "Carebear" meant, and now I feel dumber for knowing it. Some of us grew up in the 80s with real CareBears and the term baffles me.. I suppose i have to grow up with Halo instead of Kid Icarus to understand it. Anyways after checking urban dictionary and comparing the term to the OP.. wow.. pretty far off. Anyways I am sad to see this game slowly petering out, it's the first game where i actually enjoyed pvp.
A game need to let high level players kill and camp newbs to be a real pvp game or hardcore?
Does that sound fucking stupid to anyone else?
It's bad PvP, but it is hardcore. I like the way PvP is divided up in Warhammer. I also like how a swarm of T1s can kill a single T2.
It's other aspects of the PvP I don't like. Like rewarding losing. PvP should never reward losing.
umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE.
ORvR rule set server's like Dark Crag, allows anyone from level 1-20 to be in T1. Without the worry of the being a bawk bawk bawk. Same go's for T2 10-30, and T3 20-40. *Edit* Forgot to add, you were alway's flagged for RvR also. No matter if you were in a Warcamp or PvE zone.
And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times.
There was NPC's in the warcamp's that offered quest's for particapating in scenario's. The quest would be marked as competeled, when you were finished with said scenario.. the quest stated win or lose. They were repeatable and offered small chunk of EXP, and coin. They were however, totally a waste of time to even turn in.
War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE.
Couldn't agree more.
War IS a PvP game, WoW is NOT. War relies on population balance to make the game even remotely fun. Comparing War and WoW is like comparing apples to oranges. While they are both fruits (MMOs) they are different in a lot more ways.
Again, i couldn't agree more. Wow was nothing more then a PvE game, with any sort of "real" PvP tacked on later.
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
I'm sorry, but once someone actually uses the term "carebear" they lose any and all credibility.
LOL, especially if their pvp game of choice is WOW.
I agree 100%. What a waste of oxygen.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Originally posted by MMMOGIRL umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE. Open rules server. Different chicken rule. And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. Pay attention. Each scenario has a related quest you can pick up before going in, which rewards you whether you win or lose. Now, that is carebear. WoW's equivalent quest requires winning the BG Imagine that. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. "you do not get as much xp for renown". You don't get rewarded as much. You still get rewarded. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times. And if it's a close match, the losers get almost as much bonus (and I have seen some get more) as the winners. War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE. It's not the only major reason, but yes, it is a major factor. How would you fix it?
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
Agreed.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I still find it funny, people who play WoW of all games... calling War care bear of all thing's. WoW is the biggest pussified game on the market right now... some how griefing apparently = hardcore. Why are you guy's not playing a game like Darkfall.... to much to handle???
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Sigh, no offense but i don't give a crap... about why *you* don't like DF.
You did ask why.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't know if I want to find this kind of arguments amuzing or just desturbing....
Let's take a look at WoW first. It got like what, 11m+ subs? War got probably way below 300k, waay below! Does this make WoW a better game? ofcourse not.
WoW is perhaps just more appealing to the masses, more mainstream. Maybe there're alot of reasons why the numbers in WoW compares to War are the way they are... But all of the reasons are another discussion however!
This very one seems to be about the good old term "carebear" right!? So why not have a little closer look at ourselves first, who are we really? Well, we're the players right, players with different demands and playstyles.
Some folks find it awful when a lowbie can be ganked by a higher more experienced player with the "Uber-gear". They just think it's a very poor way of implementing PvP, perhaps not even worth to be mentioned as PvP! When PvE:ing one should be left alone... period!
On the other hand, some folks are more into free for all PvP-style kind of thing. They want to experience the fear everywhere when trying to level up.
When they selves hit the level cap, they go out themselves, hunting for defenseless lowbies...
People are different, simple is that! If I was the big boss on a game company, guess what I would pick??
WoW:
There are servers for those who want fair PvP between equal opponents. Servers for those who can participate in PvP only when they want to. Here you can PvE without worrying of beeing ganked!
There are also servers for those who accept the fact that one could, as a lowleveler, be attacked unfairly by an opponent far superior. Servers where you will getting nervous even when trying to the simpliest PvE quest's!
Simple fact, WoW has servers for both kinds!
War:
As for the OP, Mythic did listen to much to the community! Way to much!
I still find it funny, people who play WoW of all games... calling War care bear of all thing's. WoW is the biggest pussified game on the market right now... some how griefing apparently = hardcore. Why are you guy's not playing a game like Darkfall.... to much to handle???
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Sigh, no offense but i don't give a crap... about why *you* don't like DF.
You did ask why.
/facepalm
Comprehension is not your friend
I wasn't asking why Frostbite didn't like a game like DF... now was I??? Nope..... unless he want's to admit that he's a WoW kiddo that think's griefing is hardcore!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Which i really fricken doubt he is... but you never know O.o
If ganking for you = hardcore, then yes WAR will be too 'Carebear' for you.
If you're the sort of person that thinks ganking lower levels = skill, then I think WAR will be a better game without you for most players.
For me, ganking is nothing but a twisted and somewhat bizarre way to get your rocks off. It suggests to me you are a person whose company I'd rather avoid, both in and out of game.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Hacking, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with ganking. Its really quite sad when people have to cheat to win.
Look past the "ganking" and corpse camping and see the message for what it is, not the insults people are trying to turn it into.
The original poster never said wow was hardcore and in fact scoffed at wows pvp being anything close to hardcore.
He then made the comparison that warhammers pvp was even more "carebear" than wow's pvp... WHICH IS SAD. The reason his example is sad is due to how non-hardcore he considers wows pvp. Everyone seems to not understand that.
The example given was that on a wow pvp server, you are vulnerable 100% of the time. You can get attacked and killed anywhere you are, no restrictions on level, location, etc.
In Warhammer there is safety placed all through out a game that emphasizes "War is everywhere. Waghhhh". In order to pvp, you have to go to predeisgnated areas, be in the proper level range, etc. Otherwise the game and mechanics do a fine job of keeping people nice and safe behind pve barriers where they can hide from the pvp, which is supposed to be everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I understand why warhammer did it and I think it should present a better pvp experience, but that isn't what happened. Furthermore I'm not defending the OP, because I make certain assumptions about people that say gank, carebear, etc. I just understand the message he was trying to communicate and it is mostly true.
I guess I'll see you all in WoW, gotta get to 80 before cataclysm. And as an aside, star wars is geared at the 12 year olds watching the cartoons currently on TV, not the fans that have been following it for year. So I wouldn't get your hopes up about it.
You're going to play WoW and you are complaining about Star Wars being catered toward 12 year olds? LOL WUT?
If ganking for you = hardcore, then yes WAR will be too 'Carebear' for you.
If you're the sort of person that thinks ganking lower levels = skill, then I think WAR will be a better game without you for most players.
For me, ganking is nothing but a twisted and somewhat bizarre way to get your rocks off. It suggests to me you are a person whose company I'd rather avoid, both in and out of game.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Hacking, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with ganking. Its really quite sad when people have to cheat to win.
Look past the "ganking" and corpse camping and see the message for what it is, not the insults people are trying to turn it into.
The original poster never said wow was hardcore and in fact scoffed at wows pvp being anything close to hardcore.
He then made the comparison that warhammers pvp was even more "carebear" than wow's pvp... WHICH IS SAD. The reason his example is sad is due to how non-hardcore he considers wows pvp. Everyone seems to not understand that.
The example given was that on a wow pvp server, you are vulnerable 100% of the time. You can get attacked and killed anywhere you are, no restrictions on level, location, etc.
In Warhammer there is safety placed all through out a game that emphasizes "War is everywhere. Waghhhh". In order to pvp, you have to go to predeisgnated areas, be in the proper level range, etc. Otherwise the game and mechanics do a fine job of keeping people nice and safe behind pve barriers where they can hide from the pvp, which is supposed to be everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I understand why warhammer did it and I think it should present a better pvp experience, but that isn't what happened. Furthermore I'm not defending the OP, because I make certain assumptions about people that say gank, carebear, etc. I just understand the message he was trying to communicate and it is mostly true.
Actually, I meant to leave out the top line of the post I quoted. I was aggreeing with his point on ganking. And in War, you may think your safe in some areas, but there are bugs. In particular, there is one in BlackBramble Hollow Warcamp in T2 Troll Country zone, destruction can get in the side through the RvR area and not get one-shotted by NPCs, I have seen it done and reported it many times. Its a direct violation of the TOS. Opposing factions can travel through each others PvE areas as well and not get attacked UNLESS they are flagged. I was flagged once and in a PQ (PvE) when an enemy player came by and ganked me. It happens, you just gotta watch your back.
PvP in WoW is a huge joke. It should just be eliminated imo. WoW is more fun for its PvE than anything. If the devs at Mythic would just listen to the War players, War could be up there with WoW in subs and be the game for those who prefer PvP, but I really don't expect that to ever happen.
"Don't get me wrong, I understand why warhammer did it" Did what?
"but that isn't what happened" What happened? If you're referring to their drop in subs, over the last 30 days, the main reason for the drop is population imbalance. I played War for 4 months straight and had a toon in every tier. Right after the 1.3.2 patch, Destruction became overwhemingly popular and outnumbered Order.
War is going down because of the end-game and population imbalance, 'nuff said.
A game need to let high level players kill and camp newbs to be a real pvp game or hardcore?
Does that sound fucking stupid to anyone else?
It's bad PvP, but it is hardcore. I like the way PvP is divided up in Warhammer. I also like how a swarm of T1s can kill a single T2.
It's other aspects of the PvP I don't like. Like rewarding losing. PvP should never reward losing.
umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE.
ORvR rule set server's like Dark Crag, allows anyone from level 1-20 to be in T1. Without the worry of the being a bawk bawk bawk. Same go's for T2 10-30, and T3 20-40. *Edit* Forgot to add, you were alway's flagged for RvR also. No matter if you were in a Warcamp or PvE zone.
And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times.
There was NPC's in the warcamp's that offered quest's for particapating in scenario's. The quest would be marked as competeled, when you were finished with said scenario.. the quest stated win or lose. They were repeatable and offered small chunk of EXP, and coin. They were however, totally a waste of time to even turn in.
War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE.
Couldn't agree more.
War IS a PvP game, WoW is NOT. War relies on population balance to make the game even remotely fun. Comparing War and WoW is like comparing apples to oranges. While they are both fruits (MMOs) they are different in a lot more ways.
Again, i couldn't agree more. Wow was nothing more then a PvE game, with any sort of "real" PvP tacked on later.
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
Same hahaha :P
Thanks for reminding me, I had actually forgotten about the RvR servers, it was never my bag to do RvR ALL the time, so I never bothered with that server.
And the quests in SC must be something new because when I played, there were never any quests in there. I want to add that I quit playing almost 3 weeks ago.
Originally posted by MMMOGIRL umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE. Open rules server. Different chicken rule. And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. Pay attention. Each scenario has a related quest you can pick up before going in, which rewards you whether you win or lose. Now, that is carebear. WoW's equivalent quest requires winning the BG Imagine that. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. "you do not get as much xp for renown". You don't get rewarded as much. You still get rewarded. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times. And if it's a close match, the losers get almost as much bonus (and I have seen some get more) as the winners. War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE. It's not the only major reason, but yes, it is a major factor. How would you fix it?
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
Agreed.
How would I fix it? Cap the population of both factions on ALL servers and offer free transfers to any server that has room, any level toon. An even playing field is more fun than playing 4 vs 1 constantly.
When I said "I know why they did it", I was referring to how warhammer tried to make pvp combat balanced through implenting restrictions. Level differences, Tiered zones, RvR areas, etc. I think this is why the gameplay is so sloppy, because the team focused so much on what they did not want players doing, that they lost sight of what players might enjoy doing. Everywhere you look the game is riddled with restrictions and designs that prevent gameplay. Even discussion was limited at release with no official forums, regional chat, etc. Mythic lived in fear of what players would do and say which leads into the next item.
When I said "that is what happened" I was referring to the entire life of the game, not last month. Honestly it was not a comment about the population decline of the game, but rather the condition of the game itself. I can assure you that warhammer fell so hard for many reasons beyond just population imbalance and end game. You can 'nuff said all you want, but warhammer just did not deliver on almost everything it set out to do
.
Sure wow doesn't have zone or world conquest as the goal of its pvp, but it delivers far superior pvp combat in almost every aspect when compared to warhammer. Mechanics, elements, balance, options, variety, rewards, etc. It is just hands down a better system and one more people find enjoyable. Honestly a pve game should not have better pvp than a dedicated pvp game.
Comments
I know i will lose all credibility but i will say it though. WAR is carebear game and main reason for me to quit. I am resubbing immediately when they open some hardcore server with nice death penalty. Such server should of course have some bonuses like 50% more exp etc. More risk means greater rewards right?
Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
It's bad PvP, but it is hardcore. I like the way PvP is divided up in Warhammer. I also like how a swarm of T1s can kill a single T2.
It's other aspects of the PvP I don't like. Like rewarding losing. PvP should never reward losing.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If you think they rewarded losing, then you were playing a competely different Warhammer then i did. And doesn't sound like you were never apart of getting zerged 24/7. Tell me before they changed the game to what it is now because of population. How really rewarding is it, getting locked out of your city for 18hours at times, or having your city rank on a constant one star. So you weren't able to do any city dungeons to get Sen gear, or the fact you were left with no real SC options or not being able to really do any ORvR. Because the other side is to busy trying to do stage 2 yet again.... when they told you all of your base are belong to us. It only made matters worse when a good deal of people quit because of it... which isn't rewarding.. you need numbers in a numbers game. Yea all that was real fricken rewarding, and if you want to use the whole.. "Well they reward you exp and money for doing a sc quest"..... Please that boat isn't floating man.
PS
For the peoples misuse of the word Carebear. Really are you guy's fricken twelve year's old?
A game need to let high level players kill and camp newbs to be a real pvp game or hardcore?
Does that sound fucking stupid to anyone else?
The original poster is saying the warhammer is "carebear" compared to wow.... AND THAT IS SAD.
Obviously they do not consider wow to be hardcore pvp and considers warhammer to be further away than wow is.... which is sad [for a game that is supposed to be about war being everywhere]. I'm not sure why so many people failed to understand what the original poster was saying.
I agree. Get rid of the big carebear walls that separate the factions and let them be in each others faces from level one. WAR is everywhere... I mean, only in RvR lakes and Instances.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
If ganking for you = hardcore, then yes WAR will be too 'Carebear' for you.
If you're the sort of person that thinks ganking lower levels = skill, then I think WAR will be a better game without you for most players.
For me, ganking is nothing but a twisted and somewhat bizarre way to get your rocks off. It suggests to me you are a person whose company I'd rather avoid, both in and out of game.
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
I still find it funny, people who play WoW of all games... calling War care bear of all thing's. WoW is the biggest pussified game on the market right now... some how griefing apparently = hardcore. Why are you guy's not playing a game like Darkfall.... to much to handle???
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Sigh, no offense but i don't give a crap... about why *you* don't like DF.
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Enough people play DF and enjoy it, and after the Expansion alot more will come in. You will be on the sidelines still whining like a little baby on the forums not having fun
Ha
But this post aint about DF so lets not go there
It's bad PvP, but it is hardcore. I like the way PvP is divided up in Warhammer. I also like how a swarm of T1s can kill a single T2.
It's other aspects of the PvP I don't like. Like rewarding losing. PvP should never reward losing.
umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE.
And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times.
War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE.
War IS a PvP game, WoW is NOT. War relies on population balance to make the game even remotely fun. Comparing War and WoW is like comparing apples to oranges. While they are both fruits (MMOs) they are different in a lot more ways.
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Hacking, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with ganking. Its really quite sad when people have to cheat to win.
Because of this thread i had to google what "Carebear" meant, and now I feel dumber for knowing it.
Some of us grew up in the 80s with real CareBears and the term baffles me.. I suppose i have to grow up with Halo instead of Kid Icarus to understand it. Anyways after checking urban dictionary and comparing the term to the OP.. wow.. pretty far off. Anyways I am sad to see this game slowly petering out, it's the first game where i actually enjoyed pvp.
It's bad PvP, but it is hardcore. I like the way PvP is divided up in Warhammer. I also like how a swarm of T1s can kill a single T2.
It's other aspects of the PvP I don't like. Like rewarding losing. PvP should never reward losing.
umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE.
ORvR rule set server's like Dark Crag, allows anyone from level 1-20 to be in T1. Without the worry of the being a bawk bawk bawk. Same go's for T2 10-30, and T3 20-40. *Edit* Forgot to add, you were alway's flagged for RvR also. No matter if you were in a Warcamp or PvE zone.
And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times.
There was NPC's in the warcamp's that offered quest's for particapating in scenario's. The quest would be marked as competeled, when you were finished with said scenario.. the quest stated win or lose. They were repeatable and offered small chunk of EXP, and coin. They were however, totally a waste of time to even turn in.
War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE.
Couldn't agree more.
War IS a PvP game, WoW is NOT. War relies on population balance to make the game even remotely fun. Comparing War and WoW is like comparing apples to oranges. While they are both fruits (MMOs) they are different in a lot more ways.
Again, i couldn't agree more. Wow was nothing more then a PvE game, with any sort of "real" PvP tacked on later.
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
Same hahaha :P
LOL, especially if their pvp game of choice is WOW.
I agree 100%. What a waste of oxygen.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Agreed.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Sigh, no offense but i don't give a crap... about why *you* don't like DF.
You did ask why.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't know if I want to find this kind of arguments amuzing or just desturbing....
Let's take a look at WoW first. It got like what, 11m+ subs? War got probably way below 300k, waay below! Does this make WoW a better game? ofcourse not.
WoW is perhaps just more appealing to the masses, more mainstream. Maybe there're alot of reasons why the numbers in WoW compares to War are the way they are... But all of the reasons are another discussion however!
This very one seems to be about the good old term "carebear" right!? So why not have a little closer look at ourselves first, who are we really? Well, we're the players right, players with different demands and playstyles.
Some folks find it awful when a lowbie can be ganked by a higher more experienced player with the "Uber-gear". They just think it's a very poor way of implementing PvP, perhaps not even worth to be mentioned as PvP! When PvE:ing one should be left alone... period!
On the other hand, some folks are more into free for all PvP-style kind of thing. They want to experience the fear everywhere when trying to level up.
When they selves hit the level cap, they go out themselves, hunting for defenseless lowbies...
People are different, simple is that! If I was the big boss on a game company, guess what I would pick??
WoW:
There are servers for those who want fair PvP between equal opponents. Servers for those who can participate in PvP only when they want to. Here you can PvE without worrying of beeing ganked!
There are also servers for those who accept the fact that one could, as a lowleveler, be attacked unfairly by an opponent far superior. Servers where you will getting nervous even when trying to the simpliest PvE quest's!
Simple fact, WoW has servers for both kinds!
War:
As for the OP, Mythic did listen to much to the community! Way to much!
No one really plays DF because of the poor game mechanics. Dated Graphics and lack of content. Full loot pvp will never work nor become popular because no one wants to spend a month of their time and lose it randomly to a group of ppl who just gank 1 person with 5 ppl.
Sigh, no offense but i don't give a crap... about why *you* don't like DF.
You did ask why.
/facepalm
Comprehension is not your friend
I wasn't asking why Frostbite didn't like a game like DF... now was I??? Nope..... unless he want's to admit that he's a WoW kiddo that think's griefing is hardcore!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Which i really fricken doubt he is... but you never know O.o
o.O
I couldn't have said it better myself. Hacking, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with ganking. Its really quite sad when people have to cheat to win.
Look past the "ganking" and corpse camping and see the message for what it is, not the insults people are trying to turn it into.
The original poster never said wow was hardcore and in fact scoffed at wows pvp being anything close to hardcore.
He then made the comparison that warhammers pvp was even more "carebear" than wow's pvp... WHICH IS SAD. The reason his example is sad is due to how non-hardcore he considers wows pvp. Everyone seems to not understand that.
The example given was that on a wow pvp server, you are vulnerable 100% of the time. You can get attacked and killed anywhere you are, no restrictions on level, location, etc.
In Warhammer there is safety placed all through out a game that emphasizes "War is everywhere. Waghhhh". In order to pvp, you have to go to predeisgnated areas, be in the proper level range, etc. Otherwise the game and mechanics do a fine job of keeping people nice and safe behind pve barriers where they can hide from the pvp, which is supposed to be everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I understand why warhammer did it and I think it should present a better pvp experience, but that isn't what happened. Furthermore I'm not defending the OP, because I make certain assumptions about people that say gank, carebear, etc. I just understand the message he was trying to communicate and it is mostly true.
You're going to play WoW and you are complaining about Star Wars being catered toward 12 year olds? LOL WUT?
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
I couldn't have said it better myself. Hacking, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with ganking. Its really quite sad when people have to cheat to win.
Look past the "ganking" and corpse camping and see the message for what it is, not the insults people are trying to turn it into.
The original poster never said wow was hardcore and in fact scoffed at wows pvp being anything close to hardcore.
He then made the comparison that warhammers pvp was even more "carebear" than wow's pvp... WHICH IS SAD. The reason his example is sad is due to how non-hardcore he considers wows pvp. Everyone seems to not understand that.
The example given was that on a wow pvp server, you are vulnerable 100% of the time. You can get attacked and killed anywhere you are, no restrictions on level, location, etc.
In Warhammer there is safety placed all through out a game that emphasizes "War is everywhere. Waghhhh". In order to pvp, you have to go to predeisgnated areas, be in the proper level range, etc. Otherwise the game and mechanics do a fine job of keeping people nice and safe behind pve barriers where they can hide from the pvp, which is supposed to be everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I understand why warhammer did it and I think it should present a better pvp experience, but that isn't what happened. Furthermore I'm not defending the OP, because I make certain assumptions about people that say gank, carebear, etc. I just understand the message he was trying to communicate and it is mostly true.
Actually, I meant to leave out the top line of the post I quoted. I was aggreeing with his point on ganking. And in War, you may think your safe in some areas, but there are bugs. In particular, there is one in BlackBramble Hollow Warcamp in T2 Troll Country zone, destruction can get in the side through the RvR area and not get one-shotted by NPCs, I have seen it done and reported it many times. Its a direct violation of the TOS. Opposing factions can travel through each others PvE areas as well and not get attacked UNLESS they are flagged. I was flagged once and in a PQ (PvE) when an enemy player came by and ganked me. It happens, you just gotta watch your back.
PvP in WoW is a huge joke. It should just be eliminated imo. WoW is more fun for its PvE than anything. If the devs at Mythic would just listen to the War players, War could be up there with WoW in subs and be the game for those who prefer PvP, but I really don't expect that to ever happen.
"Don't get me wrong, I understand why warhammer did it" Did what?
"but that isn't what happened" What happened? If you're referring to their drop in subs, over the last 30 days, the main reason for the drop is population imbalance. I played War for 4 months straight and had a toon in every tier. Right after the 1.3.2 patch, Destruction became overwhemingly popular and outnumbered Order.
War is going down because of the end-game and population imbalance, 'nuff said.
It's bad PvP, but it is hardcore. I like the way PvP is divided up in Warhammer. I also like how a swarm of T1s can kill a single T2.
It's other aspects of the PvP I don't like. Like rewarding losing. PvP should never reward losing.
umm, swarm of T1 kill a T2??? Are you talking about War? Because in war, once you're officially T2, T1 can only kill you if you are flagged for RvR, AND are in their area which will INSTANTLY turn you into a chicken so you can be one-shotted by ANY ONE.
ORvR rule set server's like Dark Crag, allows anyone from level 1-20 to be in T1. Without the worry of the being a bawk bawk bawk. Same go's for T2 10-30, and T3 20-40. *Edit* Forgot to add, you were alway's flagged for RvR also. No matter if you were in a Warcamp or PvE zone.
And a War Scenerio is NOT A QUEST. Its a closed PvP Instance. If you're on the losing side, you do not get as much xp for renown so it is NOT rewarding. The winners get mad xp and renown especially if they killed your team over and over again, AND took the Objective enough times.
There was NPC's in the warcamp's that offered quest's for particapating in scenario's. The quest would be marked as competeled, when you were finished with said scenario.. the quest stated win or lose. They were repeatable and offered small chunk of EXP, and coin. They were however, totally a waste of time to even turn in.
War is going down the drain, and they are struggling with little band-aids like "free unlimited trial". Take a look at their forums and you will see the REAL reason War is failing: POPULATION IMBALANCE.
Couldn't agree more.
War IS a PvP game, WoW is NOT. War relies on population balance to make the game even remotely fun. Comparing War and WoW is like comparing apples to oranges. While they are both fruits (MMOs) they are different in a lot more ways.
Again, i couldn't agree more. Wow was nothing more then a PvE game, with any sort of "real" PvP tacked on later.
And don't even get me started on how bad the end-game sucks.
Same hahaha :P
Thanks for reminding me, I had actually forgotten about the RvR servers, it was never my bag to do RvR ALL the time, so I never bothered with that server.
And the quests in SC must be something new because when I played, there were never any quests in there. I want to add that I quit playing almost 3 weeks ago.
Agreed.
How would I fix it? Cap the population of both factions on ALL servers and offer free transfers to any server that has room, any level toon. An even playing field is more fun than playing 4 vs 1 constantly.
When I said "I know why they did it", I was referring to how warhammer tried to make pvp combat balanced through implenting restrictions. Level differences, Tiered zones, RvR areas, etc. I think this is why the gameplay is so sloppy, because the team focused so much on what they did not want players doing, that they lost sight of what players might enjoy doing. Everywhere you look the game is riddled with restrictions and designs that prevent gameplay. Even discussion was limited at release with no official forums, regional chat, etc. Mythic lived in fear of what players would do and say which leads into the next item.
When I said "that is what happened" I was referring to the entire life of the game, not last month. Honestly it was not a comment about the population decline of the game, but rather the condition of the game itself. I can assure you that warhammer fell so hard for many reasons beyond just population imbalance and end game. You can 'nuff said all you want, but warhammer just did not deliver on almost everything it set out to do
.
Sure wow doesn't have zone or world conquest as the goal of its pvp, but it delivers far superior pvp combat in almost every aspect when compared to warhammer. Mechanics, elements, balance, options, variety, rewards, etc. It is just hands down a better system and one more people find enjoyable. Honestly a pve game should not have better pvp than a dedicated pvp game.