The reason these games are being released in such piss poor states is because people buy them. If you don't stop paying full price for a half of a game, the cycle will never end. It's getting worse too, now some developers are charging players to beta test. Think about it, these momos are charging us money to test their game for them. In essence, we're paying them money to work for them. If you're really tired of playing half finished games, speak with your wallet and don't freaking buy them. Buying unfinished games only serves tor reinforce the fact that people are so desperate for a new MMO, that they are willing to put up with anything.
You are correct Heartless. Gamers are the only people I know who pay and continue to pay for half finished inferior products and accept it as the norm. The Xbox 360 is another example of this acceptance that continues to amaze me. I know consoles and MMO's are a different thing but both deal with gamers and go to the point being made. Not only do gamers buy the junk, they defend it as if it were their child. Any other industry would be bankrupt with this type of track record. As long as people are willing to buy shit, it will continue to be shoveled. In most industries the market culls the lame but not in this one as the lame continues to make money along with the few that do a good job due to the fact that junk sells.
The best rule of conduct would be to wait post launch six months to a year. To many times have I played a new MMO to have it be radically changed or just be an unplayable mess within the first six months.
There seems to be a general idea that when a new MMO launches, you can't compare it to other already existing MMOs due to it being so new. People think we should forgive new MMOs for a lack of features, content, polish, etc., for at least a couple of years before we even judge it or compare it. That's plain nuts. New MMOs should already come with the features that make current MMOs successful, plain and simple. Bugs? It always happens. But features? There's no excuse for that. And concerning content, I believe when an MMO launches it should already have enough content in it to keep players interested from level 1 all the way to end game; at least enough before the next major patch hits. The majority of players shouldn't have to level then stare at their feet for 3 months before having something to do. Why should we pay $15.00 per month for something that we'll completely enjoy "only after 1 or 2 years"? It's this "oh no guys, don't be mean to the new guy" type of mentality that promotes half baked disastrous MMOs to come out and fail like so many have recently. MMO developers should know that if they want to compete in this arena, they got to have their stuff right from the get go; and we won't accept any "it's new" excuses for the fact that their game is not fun compared to what already exists. Anyways, that's my opinion. What do you guys think?
Fair enough. However, when after a while most publishers stop creating mmos since there is no way that a company is going to invest that amount of money unless they have a foreseeable revenue that in most of the cases is quite uncertain given how spoiled and moody mmo players tend to be.
In my opinion a good mmo player should be able to see potential in games and support them if they believe in them.
I wait for a game to get better for one reason. Eve Online.
That game sucked fat hairy nuts when it released and if people gave up on it we would be out of one of the best sandbox games ever created.
So Ill wait for DF and FE to be filled with more features. I'll wait for Ryzom devs to add more to the game even though they can only muster two-three small patches a year.
Sometimes games have potential and require a bit of time.
If we just stuck with the games that were solid and had nothing really wrong with them in this genre we all be playing WoW.
I would rather kill myself with a keyboard than play WoW.
If you don't have patience for MMO's, then MMO's would never be released. In order to make any profit on them, companies have to get them out the door in a certain time frame. That time frame is much much less than an MMO that has been released for years has. It's a necessary fact, and no amount of whining will change it.
The OP has a point but I think has missed the target with it. The issue isn't that you should forgive shoddy design, poor performance or lack of content with a game just because it is new. If the developers have screwed up then they should be told so. However, to compare the amount of content and polish that a game which has only just been released with something that has been out for years and have had a chance to evolve is not appropriate.
When a company is desiging a product there is a never a stage when it is 100% complete and perfect and ready to go. The question is how soon before that do you ship the product? And, the answer is going to depend upon a number of variables including how long until the bank comes and shuts the company down. Ship it too soon and you can do as much damage as keeping the product in house and constantly tweaking and refining it. At some point it needs to ship and this is where a good developer can come in and plan accordingly.
Sadly the last few years have shown a tendancy for products to be shipped with major aspects of the game lacking or being incomplete. Vanguard, Warhammer, AoC all have had their issues. The most recent release of Aion is closer to where a game needs to be to be released but still it could have used a bit more time and care before release.
People talk about the next WoW-killer but even if a game has that potential it won't happen if they don't release a good product. The next product that comes out that has the content right, the game play right, the game engine right is going to do well no matter what the game is. But that is so much easier to say than to do. But, we don't have to give the developers a free ride but we also don't have to flog them endlessly as some have been doing of late.
Perhaps if developers stopped trying to make games that do everything, and tried to make ones that did only a few things, but did them extremely well. Actually, the upcoming failure that is Alganon is almost a good example of this. The high-end content, dungeons, raids, and PvP are all scheduled to be patched in later. This is an acceptable situation, provided that the content that IS released is excellent. There is no need to include every sort of feature from the beginning, only that the present ones be as good as can possibly be done. This is where Alganon falls short, but a future game could certainly go in this direction.
To the above post, I would add that a high level of writing is needed. An engaging setting and characters are instrumental to making a player interested in a game. I think a lot of games, especially those in fantasy settings, too often ignore the need for good writing. They just go with the idea that "humans, elves, and dwarves are the good guys, and function just like they do in dungeons and dragons, and everyone understands the basic fantasy setting." You can't just leave it at that. You need to come up with something that will draw people in. That's a solid reason why SWG and WoW in particular had such great success. They build on interesting and complex universes. Not every new game has so many previous sources to draw on, but this rich world must be created nonetheless.
I disagree.
I never understood the Horde vs Alliance thing in WoW. What got me interested in WoW's Lore was the Wiki. Most players dont want to spend their time reading quest. Many players skip through it so they can use their payed mins on the action.
I disagree. I never understood the Horde vs Alliance thing in WoW. What got me interested in WoW's Lore was the Wiki. Most players dont want to spend their time reading quest. Many players skip through it so they can use their payed mins on the action.
You do make a valid point and indeed even people interested in the "lore" of a game stop reading it after a certain point. I think the issue arises from the roots of the genre. The idea being that this is Role Playing Game which many people and indeed many developers tend to ignore.
If you look back to the early paper and pencil D&D style games they were much more about the story and the character development the "rolling" and "action" while a part of the game the discovery of a newly designed dungeon and the interaction between the various players and their characters was the defining aspect of the games. The early MUDs were a take on this took the basic dungeon crawl concept and automated the part of the dugeon master and the designer but still kept much or the role playing aspect. The very early days when EQ was released there were dedicated role playing servers where people could continue this tradtion but the march was still more towards the action and less towards the story and less towards the background lore of your personal avatar. On the RP servers you could find players that had written a complete life story for their character to include a family geneology and things that happened in the past to set them on road they are currently on.
For good or bad (depending upon which side of the fence you sit on) things have further progessed to where the "action" is more important than the story. It is interesting in a recent article that Rob Pardo of Blizzard used the term eSport when referring to the arena games and structure within WoW and this seems to be a very accurate observation. It doesn't make the concept bad it just means that it is much more about the competition and action and the story has been even further removed and pared down to just the bare bones.
To be honest many games now should be called MMOGs as the Role Playing part really has become non-existant. While I and a few others might have enjoyed the RP part obviously the developers are responding to the desire of the mass market and are providing the middle of the road game player with the sugar rush they crave.
There seems to be a general idea that when a new MMO launches, you can't compare it to other already existing MMOs due to it being so new. People think we should forgive new MMOs for a lack of features, content, polish, etc., for at least a couple of years before we even judge it or compare it. That's plain nuts. New MMOs should already come with the features that make current MMOs successful, plain and simple. Bugs? It always happens. But features? There's no excuse for that. And concerning content, I believe when an MMO launches it should already have enough content in it to keep players interested from level 1 all the way to end game; at least enough before the next major patch hits. The majority of players shouldn't have to level then stare at their feet for 3 months before having something to do. Why should we pay $15.00 per month for something that we'll completely enjoy "only after 1 or 2 years"? It's this "oh no guys, don't be mean to the new guy" type of mentality that promotes half baked disastrous MMOs to come out and fail like so many have recently. MMO developers should know that if they want to compete in this arena, they got to have their stuff right from the get go; and we won't accept any "it's new" excuses for the fact that their game is not fun compared to what already exists. Anyways, that's my opinion. What do you guys think?
I've never heard people saying "its new forgive it" (well its not that common really).
The reason why you shouldn't give new MMORPGs more time to redeem themselves is that it's the core game that influences whether people will play it. It doesn't have to do with how polished it is really.
For example, if a game came out, with FFA PvP and decent PvE content, I would play it. Would I care if it has as many instances as WoW? No. There are basic features I look for in an MMORPG and if they aren't there I won't play it at all, or give it extra time. Too bad retard MMORPG companies don't know how to make a FFA PVP with PvE game.
a new mmo doest need to have 100% of the sheen and shine of an old release to compete, it needs to have the relatively bug free release (not server launch..) ie when you walk down a path and bug out, random shit like that which is what almost every new mmo launches like, people get fucked off, especially when we pay £50+ for games, its fair to expect them not to be a buggy piece of shit. mobs that stop working, unkillable mobs..blahdy blahdy blah
like hmm AoC. great game, but launched like a turd down the toilet.. made a big splash as it landed then was quickly flushed away when people realized how incomplete it was and how many issues the client had. now im not picking on AoC vitually every new mmo is like that. why companies think this is ok I do not know!
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
I am sorry but do you have even the slightest bit of idea what it takes to make a MMO? Have you ever tried to make a decent single player RPG let alone a full commercial quality MMO? There is no way that a company could make enough content pre-launch to keep every one happy until the first content patch or expansion. Some people play pretty much round the clock 7 days a week thats 1000s of hours worth of content that would have to be created prelaunch.
Your point is largely irrelevant yes some people play that way but they account for a small percent of a games population hence the games income. And we all know this the sane of us in the community are quick to shoot down those who complain about a lack of content two weeks in and we know these are the people who get a thrill largely out of burning through the content the way they do and that small percent will always play that way.
MMo's are business and I assure you a profit is factored into the price you pay for it so I for one find it foolish at the least to be expected to pay for a product that the overall sentiment is I need to be patient in waiting for that product to truly deliver.
Often times these companies and community members like AV and DF want to shovel shit on the community and ask us to be patient as things will turn around. Let me assure you that if somehow these games were able to pull this off and reach WOW type numbers and as such money nothing is going to have you sharing in those profits with them. Yeah you'll get shiny vet rewards like every single game on the market offers but I assure you you are not moving into the same penthouses as these buffoons.
I look at guys like John Smedley who when in development often talks about game development as a labor of love and his attempt to save us from the doldrums but every time after launch you won't recognize this as the same guy because he switches right into bean counter mode and speaks of the community strictly in a monetary sense.
I am no crusader for driving anyone out of business, if there are fools willing to pay for some of the junk that is offered up more power to those who are stealing there money and I actually still hope those getting robbed enjoy themselves but I'm not in the business of paying to be anyones cheerleader. I love to play games console,pc and mmo's but they do not move me or my world so it's not something I can really take much pride in "feeling like I helped make this" or whatever sense people get.
It is entertainment for me like movies,music, and almost everything else you do in your spare time and as long as the majority of games that release continue to wear the fail sauce they do I'm going to personally keep a very skeptical opinion of those who do these things.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
There seems to be a general idea that when a new MMO launches, you can't compare it to other already existing MMOs due to it being so new. People think we should forgive new MMOs for a lack of features, content, polish, etc., for at least a couple of years before we even judge it or compare it. That's plain nuts. New MMOs should already come with the features that make current MMOs successful, plain and simple. Bugs? It always happens. But features? There's no excuse for that. And concerning content, I believe when an MMO launches it should already have enough content in it to keep players interested from level 1 all the way to end game; at least enough before the next major patch hits. The majority of players shouldn't have to level then stare at their feet for 3 months before having something to do. Why should we pay $15.00 per month for something that we'll completely enjoy "only after 1 or 2 years"? It's this "oh no guys, don't be mean to the new guy" type of mentality that promotes half baked disastrous MMOs to come out and fail like so many have recently. MMO developers should know that if they want to compete in this arena, they got to have their stuff right from the get go; and we won't accept any "it's new" excuses for the fact that their game is not fun compared to what already exists. Anyways, that's my opinion. What do you guys think?
I've never heard people saying "its new forgive it" (well its not that common really).
The reason why you shouldn't give new MMORPGs more time to redeem themselves is that it's the core game that influences whether people will play it. It doesn't have to do with how polished it is really.
For example, if a game came out, with FFA PvP and decent PvE content, I would play it. Would I care if it has as many instances as WoW? No. There are basic features I look for in an MMORPG and if they aren't there I won't play it at all, or give it extra time. Too bad retard MMORPG companies don't know how to make a FFA PVP with PvE game.
You must
A) been living under a rock
or
have a Social Life outside of reading MMORPG sites all the time during a games launch and beta.
Because if you go back a few months, Fanboys of Warhammer spamed this on WarhammerAlliance.com, and would always use the same prase
Can expect (Insert game) to be great, cause its new. WoW was worst then this,, bah bah bah
With the way things are going I think the whole f2p method is going to be what helps this genre, while the pay to play are going to just keep trying to outdo each other and failing repeatedly because their target audience (you know they are aiming at the WoW fanbase) isn't going to wait around for a company to release more content. They want what they want NOW. It's just the mentality of a significant percentage of the people these subscription based games target. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing either. I wouldn't pay a subscription for a game that was released in a rush and still in development. So I guess these companies should either take more time developing these pay to play games, or just go with a free to play model. I get tired of hearing the argument that it was just released give it time, but I don't know anything about what goes into making a game successful.
With the way things are going I think the whole f2p method is going to be what helps this genre, while the pay to play are going to just keep trying to outdo each other and failing repeatedly because their target audience (you know they are aiming at the WoW fanbase) isn't going to wait around for a company to release more content. They want what they want NOW. It's just the mentality of a significant percentage of the people these subscription based games target. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing either. I wouldn't pay a subscription for a game that was released in a rush and still in development. So I guess these companies should either take more time developing these pay to play games, or just go with a free to play model. I do I get tired of hearing the argument that it was just released give it time, but I don't know anything about what goes into making a game successful.
I would like a game with the WoW feel. But at the same time, is different.
By this I mean,
I want the same basic mechanics like: WoW aggro system, and threat system. Attack Position, Rage, Mana, Energy, ext
I want the same Smooth Feel: When I use a spell that is Instant, I want it to go off Instantly. None of this Animation crap. I cant stand this in games like Guild Wars and Aion. major turn off, if the Melee system uses all queued animation strikes.
-----
But I want Different Classes to play as-- like others, Iam tired of playing the same Classes. I want something new. I wouldnt even mind if the Spell Mechanic(rage,mana,ext) were just switched and mixed up for each class or something like that. I have noticed, that the fun in playing WoW clone games, isnt the fact that it uses ideas WoW has, but the fact that the game gives WoW players New Classes to experince.
I want Different Classes to fight--- Just as I said above, it is getting boring Playing and Fighting the same classes. I want something new to fight. (Demon Hunter, Spirit Walkers, Clerics, Warloads, Necromancers, Bards,ext) something new to fight against. When I see a Priest I know their is likely 3 specs it could be, and I know the core spells so I get no more excitement from fighting them. Same for each of the other classes. Getting 2-3 new Spells per X-pac, helps in this, but just doesnt solve the problem. Cause after a while, the new spells become a norm.
With the way things are going I think the whole f2p method is going to be what helps this genre, while the pay to play are going to just keep trying to outdo each other and failing repeatedly because their target audience (you know they are aiming at the WoW fanbase) isn't going to wait around for a company to release more content. They want what they want NOW. It's just the mentality of a significant percentage of the people these subscription based games target. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing either. I wouldn't pay a subscription for a game that was released in a rush and still in development. So I guess these companies should either take more time developing these pay to play games, or just go with a free to play model. I do I get tired of hearing the argument that it was just released give it time, but I don't know anything about what goes into making a game successful.
I would like a game with the WoW feel. But at the same time, is different.
By this I mean,
I want the same basic mechanics like: WoW aggro system, and threat system. Attack Position, Rage, Mana, Energy, ext
I want the same Smooth Feel: When I use a spell that is Instant, I want it to go off Instantly. None of this Animation crap. I cant stand this in games like Guild Wars and Aion. major turn off, if the Melee system uses all queued animation strikes.
-----
But I want Different Classes to play as-- like others, Iam tired of playing the same Classes. I want something new. I wouldnt even mind if the Spell Mechanic(rage,mana,ext) were just switched and mixed up for each class or something like that. I have noticed, that the fun in playing WoW clone games, isnt the fact that it uses ideas WoW has, but the fact that the game gives WoW players New Classes to experince.
I want Different Classes to fight--- Just as I said above, it is getting boring Playing and Fighting the same classes. I want something new to fight. (Demon Hunter, Spirit Walkers, Clerics, Warloads, Necromancers, Bards,ext) something new to fight against. When I see a Priest I know their is likely 3 specs it could be, and I know the core spells so I get no more excitement from fighting them. Same for each of the other classes. Getting 2-3 new Spells per X-pac, helps in this, but just doesnt solve the problem. Cause after a while, the new spells become a norm.
This game was released without many of the features that are in game a year later. But, it was done right.
The game at release seemed complete. It was done in such a way that you didn't miss (or notice) the missing features and when they were added in later it came as a nice surprise rather than a relief.
Wizard 101 might be a game for kids but it showed how things can (and should) be done. As a result they have a successful game and a happy community.
Honestly, I think the major issue of MMOs are the acual companies making them. We rarely see a NEW talented dev team coming into the MMO scene, all we see are the same old devs. For instance, Blizzards WoW was there first MMO and before you talk shit about blizzard, yes there are a extramely talented team of devs. 90% of the MMOs coming out atm are teams of people that have already made MMOs 10 years ago and there ideas are outdated. This is my theory of course but ive noticed every revolutionary MMO that has come out has had super new devs and places the art of MMO making before money.
Perhaps if players didn't actually buy a game until a month or more after it released, the companies wouldn't be as likely to release games before they are ready.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
You are correct Heartless. Gamers are the only people I know who pay and continue to pay for half finished inferior products and accept it as the norm. The Xbox 360 is another example of this acceptance that continues to amaze me. I know consoles and MMO's are a different thing but both deal with gamers and go to the point being made. Not only do gamers buy the junk, they defend it as if it were their child. Any other industry would be bankrupt with this type of track record. As long as people are willing to buy shit, it will continue to be shoveled. In most industries the market culls the lame but not in this one as the lame continues to make money along with the few that do a good job due to the fact that junk sells.
what games are half finished on 360?
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The best rule of conduct would be to wait post launch six months to a year. To many times have I played a new MMO to have it be radically changed or just be an unplayable mess within the first six months.
Fair enough. However, when after a while most publishers stop creating mmos since there is no way that a company is going to invest that amount of money unless they have a foreseeable revenue that in most of the cases is quite uncertain given how spoiled and moody mmo players tend to be.
In my opinion a good mmo player should be able to see potential in games and support them if they believe in them.
Be prepare for neverending wow monopoly.
I wait for a game to get better for one reason. Eve Online.
That game sucked fat hairy nuts when it released and if people gave up on it we would be out of one of the best sandbox games ever created.
So Ill wait for DF and FE to be filled with more features. I'll wait for Ryzom devs to add more to the game even though they can only muster two-three small patches a year.
Sometimes games have potential and require a bit of time.
If we just stuck with the games that were solid and had nothing really wrong with them in this genre we all be playing WoW.
I would rather kill myself with a keyboard than play WoW.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
If you don't have patience for MMO's, then MMO's would never be released. In order to make any profit on them, companies have to get them out the door in a certain time frame. That time frame is much much less than an MMO that has been released for years has. It's a necessary fact, and no amount of whining will change it.
The OP has a point but I think has missed the target with it. The issue isn't that you should forgive shoddy design, poor performance or lack of content with a game just because it is new. If the developers have screwed up then they should be told so. However, to compare the amount of content and polish that a game which has only just been released with something that has been out for years and have had a chance to evolve is not appropriate.
When a company is desiging a product there is a never a stage when it is 100% complete and perfect and ready to go. The question is how soon before that do you ship the product? And, the answer is going to depend upon a number of variables including how long until the bank comes and shuts the company down. Ship it too soon and you can do as much damage as keeping the product in house and constantly tweaking and refining it. At some point it needs to ship and this is where a good developer can come in and plan accordingly.
Sadly the last few years have shown a tendancy for products to be shipped with major aspects of the game lacking or being incomplete. Vanguard, Warhammer, AoC all have had their issues. The most recent release of Aion is closer to where a game needs to be to be released but still it could have used a bit more time and care before release.
People talk about the next WoW-killer but even if a game has that potential it won't happen if they don't release a good product. The next product that comes out that has the content right, the game play right, the game engine right is going to do well no matter what the game is. But that is so much easier to say than to do. But, we don't have to give the developers a free ride but we also don't have to flog them endlessly as some have been doing of late.
I disagree.
I never understood the Horde vs Alliance thing in WoW. What got me interested in WoW's Lore was the Wiki. Most players dont want to spend their time reading quest. Many players skip through it so they can use their payed mins on the action.
You do make a valid point and indeed even people interested in the "lore" of a game stop reading it after a certain point. I think the issue arises from the roots of the genre. The idea being that this is Role Playing Game which many people and indeed many developers tend to ignore.
If you look back to the early paper and pencil D&D style games they were much more about the story and the character development the "rolling" and "action" while a part of the game the discovery of a newly designed dungeon and the interaction between the various players and their characters was the defining aspect of the games. The early MUDs were a take on this took the basic dungeon crawl concept and automated the part of the dugeon master and the designer but still kept much or the role playing aspect. The very early days when EQ was released there were dedicated role playing servers where people could continue this tradtion but the march was still more towards the action and less towards the story and less towards the background lore of your personal avatar. On the RP servers you could find players that had written a complete life story for their character to include a family geneology and things that happened in the past to set them on road they are currently on.
For good or bad (depending upon which side of the fence you sit on) things have further progessed to where the "action" is more important than the story. It is interesting in a recent article that Rob Pardo of Blizzard used the term eSport when referring to the arena games and structure within WoW and this seems to be a very accurate observation. It doesn't make the concept bad it just means that it is much more about the competition and action and the story has been even further removed and pared down to just the bare bones.
To be honest many games now should be called MMOGs as the Role Playing part really has become non-existant. While I and a few others might have enjoyed the RP part obviously the developers are responding to the desire of the mass market and are providing the middle of the road game player with the sugar rush they crave.
I've never heard people saying "its new forgive it" (well its not that common really).
The reason why you shouldn't give new MMORPGs more time to redeem themselves is that it's the core game that influences whether people will play it. It doesn't have to do with how polished it is really.
For example, if a game came out, with FFA PvP and decent PvE content, I would play it. Would I care if it has as many instances as WoW? No. There are basic features I look for in an MMORPG and if they aren't there I won't play it at all, or give it extra time. Too bad retard MMORPG companies don't know how to make a FFA PVP with PvE game.
a new mmo doest need to have 100% of the sheen and shine of an old release to compete, it needs to have the relatively bug free release (not server launch..) ie when you walk down a path and bug out, random shit like that which is what almost every new mmo launches like, people get fucked off, especially when we pay £50+ for games, its fair to expect them not to be a buggy piece of shit. mobs that stop working, unkillable mobs..blahdy blahdy blah
like hmm AoC. great game, but launched like a turd down the toilet.. made a big splash as it landed then was quickly flushed away when people realized how incomplete it was and how many issues the client had. now im not picking on AoC vitually every new mmo is like that. why companies think this is ok I do not know!
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Your point is largely irrelevant yes some people play that way but they account for a small percent of a games population hence the games income. And we all know this the sane of us in the community are quick to shoot down those who complain about a lack of content two weeks in and we know these are the people who get a thrill largely out of burning through the content the way they do and that small percent will always play that way.
MMo's are business and I assure you a profit is factored into the price you pay for it so I for one find it foolish at the least to be expected to pay for a product that the overall sentiment is I need to be patient in waiting for that product to truly deliver.
Often times these companies and community members like AV and DF want to shovel shit on the community and ask us to be patient as things will turn around. Let me assure you that if somehow these games were able to pull this off and reach WOW type numbers and as such money nothing is going to have you sharing in those profits with them. Yeah you'll get shiny vet rewards like every single game on the market offers but I assure you you are not moving into the same penthouses as these buffoons.
I look at guys like John Smedley who when in development often talks about game development as a labor of love and his attempt to save us from the doldrums but every time after launch you won't recognize this as the same guy because he switches right into bean counter mode and speaks of the community strictly in a monetary sense.
I am no crusader for driving anyone out of business, if there are fools willing to pay for some of the junk that is offered up more power to those who are stealing there money and I actually still hope those getting robbed enjoy themselves but I'm not in the business of paying to be anyones cheerleader. I love to play games console,pc and mmo's but they do not move me or my world so it's not something I can really take much pride in "feeling like I helped make this" or whatever sense people get.
It is entertainment for me like movies,music, and almost everything else you do in your spare time and as long as the majority of games that release continue to wear the fail sauce they do I'm going to personally keep a very skeptical opinion of those who do these things.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
No free trial, no subscription, tbh. Selling a game at full price and charging a subscriptionis a straight up rip off.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I've never heard people saying "its new forgive it" (well its not that common really).
The reason why you shouldn't give new MMORPGs more time to redeem themselves is that it's the core game that influences whether people will play it. It doesn't have to do with how polished it is really.
For example, if a game came out, with FFA PvP and decent PvE content, I would play it. Would I care if it has as many instances as WoW? No. There are basic features I look for in an MMORPG and if they aren't there I won't play it at all, or give it extra time. Too bad retard MMORPG companies don't know how to make a FFA PVP with PvE game.
You must
A) been living under a rock
or
Because if you go back a few months, Fanboys of Warhammer spamed this on WarhammerAlliance.com, and would always use the same prase
Can expect (Insert game) to be great, cause its new. WoW was worst then this,, bah bah bah
With the way things are going I think the whole f2p method is going to be what helps this genre, while the pay to play are going to just keep trying to outdo each other and failing repeatedly because their target audience (you know they are aiming at the WoW fanbase) isn't going to wait around for a company to release more content. They want what they want NOW. It's just the mentality of a significant percentage of the people these subscription based games target. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing either. I wouldn't pay a subscription for a game that was released in a rush and still in development. So I guess these companies should either take more time developing these pay to play games, or just go with a free to play model. I get tired of hearing the argument that it was just released give it time, but I don't know anything about what goes into making a game successful.
I would like a game with the WoW feel. But at the same time, is different.
By this I mean,
I want the same basic mechanics like: WoW aggro system, and threat system. Attack Position, Rage, Mana, Energy, ext
I want the same Smooth Feel: When I use a spell that is Instant, I want it to go off Instantly. None of this Animation crap. I cant stand this in games like Guild Wars and Aion. major turn off, if the Melee system uses all queued animation strikes.
-----
But I want Different Classes to play as-- like others, Iam tired of playing the same Classes. I want something new. I wouldnt even mind if the Spell Mechanic(rage,mana,ext) were just switched and mixed up for each class or something like that. I have noticed, that the fun in playing WoW clone games, isnt the fact that it uses ideas WoW has, but the fact that the game gives WoW players New Classes to experince.
I want Different Classes to fight--- Just as I said above, it is getting boring Playing and Fighting the same classes. I want something new to fight. (Demon Hunter, Spirit Walkers, Clerics, Warloads, Necromancers, Bards,ext) something new to fight against. When I see a Priest I know their is likely 3 specs it could be, and I know the core spells so I get no more excitement from fighting them. Same for each of the other classes. Getting 2-3 new Spells per X-pac, helps in this, but just doesnt solve the problem. Cause after a while, the new spells become a norm.
I would like a game with the WoW feel. But at the same time, is different.
By this I mean,
I want the same basic mechanics like: WoW aggro system, and threat system. Attack Position, Rage, Mana, Energy, ext
I want the same Smooth Feel: When I use a spell that is Instant, I want it to go off Instantly. None of this Animation crap. I cant stand this in games like Guild Wars and Aion. major turn off, if the Melee system uses all queued animation strikes.
-----
But I want Different Classes to play as-- like others, Iam tired of playing the same Classes. I want something new. I wouldnt even mind if the Spell Mechanic(rage,mana,ext) were just switched and mixed up for each class or something like that. I have noticed, that the fun in playing WoW clone games, isnt the fact that it uses ideas WoW has, but the fact that the game gives WoW players New Classes to experince.
I want Different Classes to fight--- Just as I said above, it is getting boring Playing and Fighting the same classes. I want something new to fight. (Demon Hunter, Spirit Walkers, Clerics, Warloads, Necromancers, Bards,ext) something new to fight against. When I see a Priest I know their is likely 3 specs it could be, and I know the core spells so I get no more excitement from fighting them. Same for each of the other classes. Getting 2-3 new Spells per X-pac, helps in this, but just doesnt solve the problem. Cause after a while, the new spells become a norm.
What thread are you in?
Wizard 101 by KingsIsle.
This game was released without many of the features that are in game a year later. But, it was done right.
The game at release seemed complete. It was done in such a way that you didn't miss (or notice) the missing features and when they were added in later it came as a nice surprise rather than a relief.
Wizard 101 might be a game for kids but it showed how things can (and should) be done. As a result they have a successful game and a happy community.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Honestly, I think the major issue of MMOs are the acual companies making them. We rarely see a NEW talented dev team coming into the MMO scene, all we see are the same old devs. For instance, Blizzards WoW was there first MMO and before you talk shit about blizzard, yes there are a extramely talented team of devs. 90% of the MMOs coming out atm are teams of people that have already made MMOs 10 years ago and there ideas are outdated. This is my theory of course but ive noticed every revolutionary MMO that has come out has had super new devs and places the art of MMO making before money.
WE NEED FRESH BLOOD!.
Perhaps if players didn't actually buy a game until a month or more after it released, the companies wouldn't be as likely to release games before they are ready.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.