SOE broke the game in one shot so u rage quit and save money.
Blizzard slowly dumb down the game so u still spend money in hopes it one day will be in its former glory.
so yeah soe is less evil =p
now: GW2 (11 80s). Dark Souls 2. future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord. "Bro, do your even fractal?" Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Originally posted by nAAtimus Sleazy is a much better term.
Sleazy would be selling knock off food for cheap in a back alley somewhere, evil is forcing a monopoly on food through morally sceptical business practices and then scoffing at the people buying the food.
SoE was extremely poorly ran, especially in certain design decisions. Plain and simple.
Blizzard is evil in the fact that they are SLOWLY, and I do mean slowly, making RMTs globally/mainstream accepted. I said this when they first started doing server changes. They created a cash shop. You might not get ingame items, but you buy a "faction change", "race change", "name change". While these are not ingame items, some games let you buy the ingame item, to do the same thing. They have recently released a moneyshop ONLY pet. Judging from the number of the people that rushed to buy it, you can expect many more soon.
I said a few months ago race changes were coming before they announced them. I would not be suprised to see Class changes coming post expansion if not the ability to "buy" a 60, 70, or maybe 80. The class change would have a 3 month cooldown. The basically let you get to 60 in days or less with the 10% xp Chest/Shoulders (each), 30% xp from quests/mobs for recruit a friend. So "buying" a 60 would cost the amount to buy the original game (10 20 bucks?), a month sub (15), plus the original persons payments (15) plus the amount of time spent playing (20 bucks for that too). So lets say 65-90 bucks for a level 60 premade. They could say "This is to help remove leveling services that plague our game, as well as online sales of accounts."
I have no problem with what they are doing. Money is money. But they are slowing moving in the direction of RMTs for many things. So many people I see on so many forums, yell and scream bloody murder when they see RMTs, but than turn around and said, "hey I bought a faction change/pet in wow! So cool dewd!". Oh well.
1. Both game started failing in the same way by too much of a care-bear.
2. Both game failed when they both started cash shops.
3. Both game are heading down hills with end game content. (Not Enough Customization all gears look the same) Not sure about WoW but EQ2 received avatar gear nerf which was extremely messed up.
4. Both Games are Evil, (they get you hooked and then take away your life)
Ok...did I honestly just read that Hitlerwasn't evil, but two companies that make little computer games are? Some people on this site are seriously out of touch and down-right stupid.
You really arnt surprised are you? After seeing time and again people not only waiting in line for the next big let down but actually preordering it. Ive stated before that gamers have a unique outlook on what is acceptable in the way of a quality product.
I put up a post on this site a few months ago about how SOE accessed my bank account and resubbed me to Vangaurd without my permission or knowledge of. It went unnoticed for a few months since my wife checks those things online and at the time we both had accounts to EQ2 so when she saw it taken out she just assumed it was for EQ2. She did not notice until we canceled our EQ2 accounts (wanted to take a break).
there is no way possible that i somehow resubbed to a game that had been deleted from my computer for 2 months (at the time it randomly resubbed). I didn't sleepwalk to my computer and do it. I would not 'forget'. I had no intention of replaying Vangaurd. so don't even waste time with ideas like that. it was deffinitly not a mistake on my end.
so they basicly got me for a total of nearly 75$ (5 months). CSR told me (in diffrent words) that I was lying to them and i was hung up upon by about 4 people. one was their 'manager' who I was told before would not talk to me in the 1st place. I was told that only Lyman Tutle could give a refund and he only accepted E-mails. our reply from him was an automated response pointing out no refunds in the user agreement. we use debit card and I was told by the bank that because of this there was no way to get it back under 'fraud'.
thats pretty evilif you ask me. fraud and theft.
i didn't come here to defend Blizzard but in 3 years they never did anything like that to me. Where SOE did it during only a 6 month period of playing their games.
uhmm I really doubt.. they resubbed you because first of all why "you". And they can easily do it to 128390123 people so if there has been lots of cases im pretty sure they would have law suit up the ass.
As to the hitler comment you people need a sense of humor t-t considering the OP is saying game companies are evil.
Was the Hitler thing edited out? I couldn't find it myself...
Evil is a word that shouldn't be thrown around so often as it takes away from the impact the term should hold when speaking of the real deal (yes, Hitler & co.). Genocide should not be equalled to bad bussiness management even as a matter of degree.
SOE and Blizzard are mediocre companies, they could have both revolutionized the genre instead of promoting it's stagnation.
Kotick and Smedley are just douches.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Was the Hitler thing edited out? I couldn't find it myself... Evil is a word that shouldn't be thrown around so often as it takes away from the impact the term should hold when speaking of the real deal (yes, Hitler & co.). Genocide should not be equalled to bad bussiness management even as a matter of degree. SOE and Blizzard are mediocre companies, they could have both revolutionized the genre instead of promoting it's stagnation. Kotick and Smedley are just douches.
As to the hitler comment you people need a sense of humor t-t considering the OP is saying game companies are evil.
Sorry, difficult to have a sense of humor about attempted genocide, especially when some kid on a gaming forum says the person responsible wasn't evil. Get some perspective, and just because you meant it to be a joke doesn't mean it's funny.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
Actually, Activision-Blizzard makes EA look all fluffy, cute, and cuddly.
I have a profound disdain for Mr. Kotick's business and management practices. The way he flaunts the fact that he runs a company by making sure that all the employees feel like they are in danger of loosing their job is sickening and is most likely at heart a bully and someone who enjoys hurting others. I have taken multiple courses in management, and this form of management is largely considered horrible and counter-productive in the long run.
Sad thing is I still bought MW2 for PC even though I had promised myself I I wouldn't. Guess I am going to hell.
Actually, Activision-Blizzard makes EA look all fluffy, cute, and cuddly. I have a profound disdain for Mr. Kotick's business and management practices. The way he flaunts the fact that he runs a company by making sure that all the employees feel like they are in danger of loosing their job is sickening and is most likely at heart a bully and someone who enjoys hurting others. I have taken multiple courses in management, and this form of management is largely considered horrible and counter-productive in the long run. Sad thing is I still bought MW2 for PC even though I had promised myself I I wouldn't. Guess I am going to hell.
"Activision and Blizzard Entertainment still exist as separate entities. The holding company does not publish games under its central name and instead uses its subsidiaries to publish games, similar to how Vivendi Games operated before the merger. The merger makes Activision parent company of Vivendi Games former divisions.
While Blizzard retained its autonomy and corporate leadership, other Vivendi Games divisions were not so fortunate. An example of this is the long-time label Sierra (which had been around as long as Activision) which ceased operation. With the merger, there was a rumor that if a Sierra product did not meet Activision's requirements, they "won't likely be retained." Some of Sierra's games such as Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon and Prototype have been retained and are now published by Activision. Also, due to the closure of Sierra, the Sierra Community Forums servers have been shut down as of the 1st of November 2008."
Fact of the matter is, yes Kotick is a huge douchebag and doesn't need to be anywhere close to anything even remotely gaming. However, Blizzard is Vivendi's pride and joy in the gaming industry and they specifically singled out Blizzard to do their own thing without the approval of Activision/Kotick. This makes me a happy gamer.
Was the Hitler thing edited out? I couldn't find it myself... Evil is a word that shouldn't be thrown around so often as it takes away from the impact the term should hold when speaking of the real deal (yes, Hitler & co.). Genocide should not be equalled to bad bussiness management even as a matter of degree. SOE and Blizzard are mediocre companies, they could have both revolutionized the genre instead of promoting it's stagnation. Kotick and Smedley are just douches.
Hitler wasn't evil, Hitler was a MONSTER. There's a difference.
I have to add to those posters who think you are using 'Evil' a tad too readily here. Neither of these companies drowns kittens or have any known serial killers on the staff. But SOE have made some dumb decisions and some that were just good for them and not the MMO.
Ah comparison shopping. Well let's see now who's worse...
A company who disrupted a significant portion of existing customers in-game lives, banked on trading them away for new customers despite customer input anyway
(way, way, way, less left EQ2 over DoF so the EQ2 fiasco doesn't qualify but the annoyance is there)
or
A company that released two cosmetic pets
Since both companies have raid centric designs, focus on materialism, and have systems in place that encourage players screwing each other over for said materialism I'll have to pick SOE as the winner.
SOE broke the game in one shot so u rage quit and save money. Blizzard slowly dumb down the game so u still spend money in hopes it one day will be in its former glory. so yeah soe is less evil =p
Okay, that is also a way to look at it
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Wow some people are delusional if they think Activision-Blizzard is more evil then SOE. EA is still worse then SOE in buying and destroying game companies though, i can't believe how stupid these studios are to keep selling out to EA.
EA learned their lesson a few years ago, and they switch CEOs to one who actually PLAYED games.
Activision-Blizzard are doing everything that EA were doing a few years ago, except they have a few actually half decent studios under their belt.
Was the Hitler thing edited out? I couldn't find it myself... Evil is a word that shouldn't be thrown around so often as it takes away from the impact the term should hold when speaking of the real deal (yes, Hitler & co.). Genocide should not be equalled to bad bussiness management even as a matter of degree. SOE and Blizzard are mediocre companies, they could have both revolutionized the genre instead of promoting it's stagnation. Kotick and Smedley are just douches.
I'll have to agree that whatever Hitler's state of mind (his mental derangement is well documented) he was nonetheless responsible for his actions (we wouldn't consider him legally insane even today) and there really is no question about the nature of the various crimes he comitted. Crimes against humanity.
Being insane and evil are not mutually exclusive as can be proven by Charles Manson case. Now, Hitler wasn't just in charge of a group of stoned out hippies, but the larger part of continental Europe and Scandinavia. One of the misconceptions about the Holocaust is that the Nazis felt justified in their actions, however the truth is that even at the height of their power they had to keep many of their policies secret from the public eye. They knew full well that what they were doing would've been considered unacceptable even by their staunchest suporters, which does go some way into proving mens rea on their part.
That even the more enthusiastic proponents of Hitler's final solution felt the need to keep it secret does prove some awareness about the nature of their actions, although refering to this as shame (which many later claimed to have felt) is perhaps giving them too much credit.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Originally posted by Caleveira Thanks Eben. I'll have to agree that whatever Hitler's state of mind (his mental derangement is well documented) he was nonetheless responsible for his actions (we wouldn't consider him legally insane even today) and there really is no question about the nature of the various crimes he comitted. Crimes against humanity. Being insane and evil are not mutually exclusive as can be proven by Charles Manson case. Now, Hitler wasn't just in charge of a group of stoned out hippies, but the larger part of continental Europe and Scandinavia. One of the misconceptions about the Holocaust is that the Nazis felt justified in their actions, however the truth is that even at the height of their power they had to keep many of their policies secret from the public eye. They knew full well that what they were doing would've been considered unacceptable even by their staunchest suporters, which does go some way into proving mens rea on their part. That even the more enthusiastic proponents of Hitler's final solution felt the need to keep it secret does prove some awareness about the nature of their actions, although refering to this as shame (which many later claimed to have felt) is perhaps giving them too much credit.
I feel it's unfair to use Hitler as the bar for "evil", as he's way beyond it. Also, his urination fetish disgusts me so much.
Comments
Can we agree on "sleazy"?
Sleazy is a much better term.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
SOE broke the game in one shot so u rage quit and save money.
Blizzard slowly dumb down the game so u still spend money in hopes it one day will be in its former glory.
so yeah soe is less evil =p
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Sleazy would be selling knock off food for cheap in a back alley somewhere, evil is forcing a monopoly on food through morally sceptical business practices and then scoffing at the people buying the food.
http://www.havenandhearth.com
The Best New Sandbox Game Out There.
SoE was extremely poorly ran, especially in certain design decisions. Plain and simple.
Blizzard is evil in the fact that they are SLOWLY, and I do mean slowly, making RMTs globally/mainstream accepted. I said this when they first started doing server changes. They created a cash shop. You might not get ingame items, but you buy a "faction change", "race change", "name change". While these are not ingame items, some games let you buy the ingame item, to do the same thing. They have recently released a moneyshop ONLY pet. Judging from the number of the people that rushed to buy it, you can expect many more soon.
I said a few months ago race changes were coming before they announced them. I would not be suprised to see Class changes coming post expansion if not the ability to "buy" a 60, 70, or maybe 80. The class change would have a 3 month cooldown. The basically let you get to 60 in days or less with the 10% xp Chest/Shoulders (each), 30% xp from quests/mobs for recruit a friend. So "buying" a 60 would cost the amount to buy the original game (10 20 bucks?), a month sub (15), plus the original persons payments (15) plus the amount of time spent playing (20 bucks for that too). So lets say 65-90 bucks for a level 60 premade. They could say "This is to help remove leveling services that plague our game, as well as online sales of accounts."
I have no problem with what they are doing. Money is money. But they are slowing moving in the direction of RMTs for many things. So many people I see on so many forums, yell and scream bloody murder when they see RMTs, but than turn around and said, "hey I bought a faction change/pet in wow! So cool dewd!". Oh well.
EQ2 - WoW
1. Both game started failing in the same way by too much of a care-bear.
2. Both game failed when they both started cash shops.
3. Both game are heading down hills with end game content. (Not Enough Customization all gears look the same) Not sure about WoW but EQ2 received avatar gear nerf which was extremely messed up.
4. Both Games are Evil, (they get you hooked and then take away your life)
Hitler wasn't evil :O He was just nuts/pyscho.
Ok...did I honestly just read that Hitler wasn't evil, but two companies that make little computer games are?
Some people on this site are seriously out of touch and down-right stupid.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
You really arnt surprised are you? After seeing time and again people not only waiting in line for the next big let down but actually preordering it. Ive stated before that gamers have a unique outlook on what is acceptable in the way of a quality product.
I put up a post on this site a few months ago about how SOE accessed my bank account and resubbed me to Vangaurd without my permission or knowledge of. It went unnoticed for a few months since my wife checks those things online and at the time we both had accounts to EQ2 so when she saw it taken out she just assumed it was for EQ2. She did not notice until we canceled our EQ2 accounts (wanted to take a break).
there is no way possible that i somehow resubbed to a game that had been deleted from my computer for 2 months (at the time it randomly resubbed). I didn't sleepwalk to my computer and do it. I would not 'forget'. I had no intention of replaying Vangaurd. so don't even waste time with ideas like that. it was deffinitly not a mistake on my end.
so they basicly got me for a total of nearly 75$ (5 months). CSR told me (in diffrent words) that I was lying to them and i was hung up upon by about 4 people. one was their 'manager' who I was told before would not talk to me in the 1st place. I was told that only Lyman Tutle could give a refund and he only accepted E-mails. our reply from him was an automated response pointing out no refunds in the user agreement. we use debit card and I was told by the bank that because of this there was no way to get it back under 'fraud'.
thats pretty evilif you ask me. fraud and theft.
i didn't come here to defend Blizzard but in 3 years they never did anything like that to me. Where SOE did it during only a 6 month period of playing their games.
uhmm I really doubt.. they resubbed you because first of all why "you". And they can easily do it to 128390123 people so if there has been lots of cases im pretty sure they would have law suit up the ass.
As to the hitler comment you people need a sense of humor t-t considering the OP is saying game companies are evil.
Was the Hitler thing edited out? I couldn't find it myself...
Evil is a word that shouldn't be thrown around so often as it takes away from the impact the term should hold when speaking of the real deal (yes, Hitler & co.). Genocide should not be equalled to bad bussiness management even as a matter of degree.
SOE and Blizzard are mediocre companies, they could have both revolutionized the genre instead of promoting it's stagnation.
Kotick and Smedley are just douches.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
SOE? Evil? Don't make me laugh. SOE is just plain stupid, nothing more.
Post #32, last sentence:
"Hitler wasn't evil :O He was just nuts/pyscho."
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
Sorry, difficult to have a sense of humor about attempted genocide, especially when some kid on a gaming forum says the person responsible wasn't evil. Get some perspective, and just because you meant it to be a joke doesn't mean it's funny.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
ActivationBlizzard is the new EA!
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Actually, Activision-Blizzard makes EA look all fluffy, cute, and cuddly.
I have a profound disdain for Mr. Kotick's business and management practices. The way he flaunts the fact that he runs a company by making sure that all the employees feel like they are in danger of loosing their job is sickening and is most likely at heart a bully and someone who enjoys hurting others. I have taken multiple courses in management, and this form of management is largely considered horrible and counter-productive in the long run.
Sad thing is I still bought MW2 for PC even though I had promised myself I I wouldn't. Guess I am going to hell.
"Activision and Blizzard Entertainment still exist as separate entities. The holding company does not publish games under its central name and instead uses its subsidiaries to publish games, similar to how Vivendi Games operated before the merger. The merger makes Activision parent company of Vivendi Games former divisions.
While Blizzard retained its autonomy and corporate leadership, other Vivendi Games divisions were not so fortunate. An example of this is the long-time label Sierra (which had been around as long as Activision) which ceased operation. With the merger, there was a rumor that if a Sierra product did not meet Activision's requirements, they "won't likely be retained." Some of Sierra's games such as Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon and Prototype have been retained and are now published by Activision. Also, due to the closure of Sierra, the Sierra Community Forums servers have been shut down as of the 1st of November 2008."
Fact of the matter is, yes Kotick is a huge douchebag and doesn't need to be anywhere close to anything even remotely gaming. However, Blizzard is Vivendi's pride and joy in the gaming industry and they specifically singled out Blizzard to do their own thing without the approval of Activision/Kotick. This makes me a happy gamer.
Hitler wasn't evil, Hitler was a MONSTER. There's a difference.
Google has it right, basically.
http://www.havenandhearth.com
The Best New Sandbox Game Out There.
I have to add to those posters who think you are using 'Evil' a tad too readily here. Neither of these companies drowns kittens or have any known serial killers on the staff. But SOE have made some dumb decisions and some that were just good for them and not the MMO.
Ah comparison shopping. Well let's see now who's worse...
A company who disrupted a significant portion of existing customers in-game lives, banked on trading them away for new customers despite customer input anyway
(way, way, way, less left EQ2 over DoF so the EQ2 fiasco doesn't qualify but the annoyance is there)
or
A company that released two cosmetic pets
Since both companies have raid centric designs, focus on materialism, and have systems in place that encourage players screwing each other over for said materialism I'll have to pick SOE as the winner.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Okay, that is also a way to look at it
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Wow some people are delusional if they think Activision-Blizzard is more evil then SOE.
EA is still worse then SOE in buying and destroying game companies though, i can't believe how stupid these studios are to keep selling out to EA.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
EA learned their lesson a few years ago, and they switch CEOs to one who actually PLAYED games.
Activision-Blizzard are doing everything that EA were doing a few years ago, except they have a few actually half decent studios under their belt.
http://www.havenandhearth.com
The Best New Sandbox Game Out There.
Post #32, last sentence:
"Hitler wasn't evil :O He was just nuts/pyscho."
Thanks Eben.
I'll have to agree that whatever Hitler's state of mind (his mental derangement is well documented) he was nonetheless responsible for his actions (we wouldn't consider him legally insane even today) and there really is no question about the nature of the various crimes he comitted. Crimes against humanity.
Being insane and evil are not mutually exclusive as can be proven by Charles Manson case. Now, Hitler wasn't just in charge of a group of stoned out hippies, but the larger part of continental Europe and Scandinavia. One of the misconceptions about the Holocaust is that the Nazis felt justified in their actions, however the truth is that even at the height of their power they had to keep many of their policies secret from the public eye. They knew full well that what they were doing would've been considered unacceptable even by their staunchest suporters, which does go some way into proving mens rea on their part.
That even the more enthusiastic proponents of Hitler's final solution felt the need to keep it secret does prove some awareness about the nature of their actions, although refering to this as shame (which many later claimed to have felt) is perhaps giving them too much credit.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
I feel it's unfair to use Hitler as the bar for "evil", as he's way beyond it. Also, his urination fetish disgusts me so much.
http://www.havenandhearth.com
The Best New Sandbox Game Out There.
Well this thread took a turn down weird lane. This is now about the analysis and thought provoking discussion of whether Hitler is evil or not.