How little faith you have. They can damage it much, much further. Just keep watching.
You really have a problem with Darkfall, don't you? I haven't seen one post by you that was anyway positive towards the game.
So we get it, you hate it, you want to troll it, cool. What are you going to say when the second expansion releases next week and we see a large increase in the player base? That they're ruining their reputation?
I know exactly what he will say. He will say it is just a patch and a bunch of stuff that was promised prior to release.
What I think would be more self serving is if the money paid for bring in new players was applied as credit towards game time. The trouble, of course, is if that player doesn't want to continue playing. That says quite a bit about that game, to me.
On the subject of STO, if Cryptic does make the bridge the "social hub" it's going to really upset the trekkies. It would be another sign that Cryptic is unfamiliar with the Trek Lore, as people don't "hang out" on the bridge. Still STO is in a wait-and-see mode for me, as I will not be buying it at release. I will wait a while to see how reviews and word of mouth go.
I think there will be a COD mmo - MW2 has a lot of MMO style elements like customizable classes and rewards, perks - I know they were in MW1 but MW2 seems like an advancement towards MMO territory.
I doubt the ID engine (quake 3) will be able to work as an open world MMO so I presume they will use their vast profits from MW2 to create a new one?
... I doubt the ID engine (quake 3) will be able to work as an open world MMO so I presume they will use their vast profits from MW2 to create a new one?
They will have to.
FWIW when CRS (the WWIIoL devs) decided to upgrade their engine they looked around to see if they could simply replace the existing engine?
They found there was no suitable engine on the market at all.
I think it is ALWAYS a bad idea for a company that makes single/multiplayer games that are AAA (as in COD4, Mass Effect, Etc..) to shift focus for that IP to an MMO. WoW is a fluke. A huge fluke. Most games do not become that sort of success. It was the right time and the right product. It is a superior product as far as quality, but that wasn’t always the case, and mostly it was timing that made Blizzard it's money.
Game companies unfortunately just see the $$$ signs and forget the road that Blizzard had to walk to get there, and the consequences of them walking it. The production time of the game was far longer than expected. They had lay-offs and people quitting in the interim (the crew from flagship for instance), they had fans saying the game was vaporware because of the constant release date being pushed back. They had complaints from beta testers, cries of doom and gloom from "in the know" gamers and reporters...
It was, for all intents and purposes, just another MMO launch. We have been trying to pick apart why the game was so wildly successful. I'm of the opinion that it was a solid, successful, readily identifiable IP that they based the game on, and the first WELL DONE game world design that won over the customers... but that's beside the point...
My problem with it was always pretty simple. Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Starcraft Ghost, and the eventual end of Warcraft 3. In order to pursue WoW, Blizzard had to stop production on their other projects. It worked out fantastically for them as a company, but as a consumer, I was sad to not see any good Diablo expansions, any sequels to Starcraft or Warcraft (you have to play WoW now to continue the story, and you HAVE to join a raiding guild in order to really "see" the rest of the story arc), and I was mighty pissed about them canceling Starcraft Ghost.
So now... imagine that Infinity Ward decides to make a MMOFPS... think mission-based story content mixed with a semi-sandbox open world PvP system borrowing a lot of inventory and stat management from STALKERS... I don't deny that I would have a blast in a good FPS/RPG MMO... but I will say that we won't EVER see another COD4 from Infinity Ward again if they do start production on such a game. The production costs would be insane (as per normal for a AAA MMO) and pressure would be pushing them to put the game out ASAP... all of their resources would be sunk into the game.
And it simply isn't the right time for an MMOFPS to take the top of the heap of gold for it's own anyway. The perfect time would be when WoW starts to decline. But that isn't gonna happen any time soon.
And with the way the internet works (politics and economics being considered) MMOs are simply not working the way we envisioned they would. We aren't seeing worlds being created with MMO productions. We are seeing industry standards painting potential products into a very small corner over and over again. Instead of the wonder and entertainment that originally drew most of us to MMOs, we are finding that the most money is made from socializing, and from playing "dress up" with your avatar, while the same re-hashed content is thrown at us again and again.
I think the thing we often lose sight of is that the true draw for gamers in the beginning came from our own upbringings in real life. We played outside a LOT as kids (most of us) and discovered another world in the games. We started to play more and more as we got older and older, and when MMOs hit, we saw an opportunity to PLAY IN ANOTHER WORLD.
Now, the market is dominated by the younger crowd, and more and more, the younger crowd has stayed inside most of their young lives. Playing videogames, watching TV, surfing the net... these are common things for kids even as young as 5 years old. That's unheard of for the people who were there when MUDs were replaced (effectively) by EQ and UO.
As a consequence, entering another world just doesn't seem to be as important as just getting phat loot. Period. And more and more the draw of a game is how badass you are, not the world itself. Nothing wrong with this way of playing, but it DOES mean that if the trend continues, the days of MMOs are truly numbered as the product they are now. All age groups are tired of entering a world that isn't a world so much as just a backdrop for your badass character, and having to put up with all the stops and tolls along the way to that bad-assery. The effort involved in making your character look cool is often insulting to MMO fans.
Imagine how much all of us will hate "grinding" through a COD4-type of world.
So, I am much happier with quality games. Single player games. With updated content, sequels, and a real, interesting, storyarc. And a beggining, middle, and END. Better that then just another run-of-the-mill MMO. No matter what it’s post script.
[Begin Sarcasm]
Girls don't use the internet unless theres a webcam involved....its a physical impossibility.
They also don't play them thar vidya gaymes, mmorpg = most men online role play girls...even in ventrillo.
I would differ in opinion about a COD mmo. Now is the time to start it, if they have that ambition. The IP is at it's peak right now. there's nothing more to add to another cod in it's current form, wait it out. Use customer demand for your product as billions in free marketing. Go balls out in design. Win or go bankrupt. They will never get this kind of opportunity again. Playing it safe is for the other guys. Take gaming and MMO's to another level and become immortal. Infinity Ward forever!!
Just talking outta my ass here of coarse. I have no idea what their plans are or what their data tells them, so I could be way off my rocker. Not to mention I have no idea what something like that would cost or the tech needed.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Good post Kusanoha, thank you. I would differ in opinion about a COD mmo. Now is the time to start it, if they have that ambition. The IP is at it's peak right now. there's nothing more to add to another cod in it's current form, wait it out. Use customer demand for your product as billions in free marketing. Go balls out in design. Win or go bankrupt. They will never get this kind of opportunity again. Playing it safe is for the other guys. Take gaming and MMO's to another level and become immortal. Infinity Ward forever!! Just talking outta my ass here of coarse. I have no idea what their plans are or what their data tells them, so I could be way off my rocker. Not to mention I have no idea what something like that would cost or the tech needed.
Yeah I agree with you. From their perspective, it would look like a good idea. In about 2-3 years (rough estimate on their dev time) WoW will once again (and hopefully finally) be declining enough that people will be wanting to jump ship in droves.
And a LOT of those players in WoW are ex-counter strike players and the like. A good COD4 MMO will feel like coming home...
It's just that an MMO is a different beast than a single player project. Hugely different. the QA requirements, the developing time, and thereby the overall COST of the project itself is vastly different. On top of which, the advertising is completely different as has been mentioned here before. We found out about COD: Modern warfare 2 not more than 12 months (really felt like 6) before it was released. We know about MMO released 3 years before they release because advertising drums up investor support that is sorely needed for a lengthy project like an MMO.
And a long development time doesn't nessisarily mean a better product. In MMOs often it means a lot of cut corners. A lot of problems to solve...
I'd still love to see a game that plays like COD4 or STALKERS and is a free-range sandbox MMO... but I'm seriously hoping it gets made by any company EXCEPT the ones that make single player games I actually like :P
[Begin Sarcasm]
Girls don't use the internet unless theres a webcam involved....its a physical impossibility.
They also don't play them thar vidya gaymes, mmorpg = most men online role play girls...even in ventrillo.
How little faith you have. They can damage it much, much further. Just keep watching.
You really have a problem with Darkfall, don't you? I haven't seen one post by you that was anyway positive towards the game.
So we get it, you hate it, you want to troll it, cool. What are you going to say when the second expansion releases next week and we see a large increase in the player base? That they're ruining their reputation?
And what happens when the expansion comes out and the playerbase stays the same? Thinking that an already niche game is going to see a "large increase" because of an expansion no one really knows about sounds like delusions. This is just my opinion, don't attack me for it.
Comments
How little faith you have. They can damage it much, much further. Just keep watching.
You really have a problem with Darkfall, don't you? I haven't seen one post by you that was anyway positive towards the game.
So we get it, you hate it, you want to troll it, cool. What are you going to say when the second expansion releases next week and we see a large increase in the player base? That they're ruining their reputation?
I know exactly what he will say. He will say it is just a patch and a bunch of stuff that was promised prior to release.
What I think would be more self serving is if the money paid for bring in new players was applied as credit towards game time. The trouble, of course, is if that player doesn't want to continue playing. That says quite a bit about that game, to me.
On the subject of STO, if Cryptic does make the bridge the "social hub" it's going to really upset the trekkies. It would be another sign that Cryptic is unfamiliar with the Trek Lore, as people don't "hang out" on the bridge. Still STO is in a wait-and-see mode for me, as I will not be buying it at release. I will wait a while to see how reviews and word of mouth go.
I think there will be a COD mmo - MW2 has a lot of MMO style elements like customizable classes and rewards, perks - I know they were in MW1 but MW2 seems like an advancement towards MMO territory.
I doubt the ID engine (quake 3) will be able to work as an open world MMO so I presume they will use their vast profits from MW2 to create a new one?
They will have to.
FWIW when CRS (the WWIIoL devs) decided to upgrade their engine they looked around to see if they could simply replace the existing engine?
They found there was no suitable engine on the market at all.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Regarding the mention of a COD4 MMO…
I think it is ALWAYS a bad idea for a company that makes single/multiplayer games that are AAA (as in COD4, Mass Effect, Etc..) to shift focus for that IP to an MMO. WoW is a fluke. A huge fluke. Most games do not become that sort of success. It was the right time and the right product. It is a superior product as far as quality, but that wasn’t always the case, and mostly it was timing that made Blizzard it's money.
Game companies unfortunately just see the $$$ signs and forget the road that Blizzard had to walk to get there, and the consequences of them walking it. The production time of the game was far longer than expected. They had lay-offs and people quitting in the interim (the crew from flagship for instance), they had fans saying the game was vaporware because of the constant release date being pushed back. They had complaints from beta testers, cries of doom and gloom from "in the know" gamers and reporters...
It was, for all intents and purposes, just another MMO launch. We have been trying to pick apart why the game was so wildly successful. I'm of the opinion that it was a solid, successful, readily identifiable IP that they based the game on, and the first WELL DONE game world design that won over the customers... but that's beside the point...
My problem with it was always pretty simple. Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Starcraft Ghost, and the eventual end of Warcraft 3. In order to pursue WoW, Blizzard had to stop production on their other projects. It worked out fantastically for them as a company, but as a consumer, I was sad to not see any good Diablo expansions, any sequels to Starcraft or Warcraft (you have to play WoW now to continue the story, and you HAVE to join a raiding guild in order to really "see" the rest of the story arc), and I was mighty pissed about them canceling Starcraft Ghost.
So now... imagine that Infinity Ward decides to make a MMOFPS... think mission-based story content mixed with a semi-sandbox open world PvP system borrowing a lot of inventory and stat management from STALKERS... I don't deny that I would have a blast in a good FPS/RPG MMO... but I will say that we won't EVER see another COD4 from Infinity Ward again if they do start production on such a game. The production costs would be insane (as per normal for a AAA MMO) and pressure would be pushing them to put the game out ASAP... all of their resources would be sunk into the game.
And it simply isn't the right time for an MMOFPS to take the top of the heap of gold for it's own anyway. The perfect time would be when WoW starts to decline. But that isn't gonna happen any time soon.
And with the way the internet works (politics and economics being considered) MMOs are simply not working the way we envisioned they would. We aren't seeing worlds being created with MMO productions. We are seeing industry standards painting potential products into a very small corner over and over again. Instead of the wonder and entertainment that originally drew most of us to MMOs, we are finding that the most money is made from socializing, and from playing "dress up" with your avatar, while the same re-hashed content is thrown at us again and again.
I think the thing we often lose sight of is that the true draw for gamers in the beginning came from our own upbringings in real life. We played outside a LOT as kids (most of us) and discovered another world in the games. We started to play more and more as we got older and older, and when MMOs hit, we saw an opportunity to PLAY IN ANOTHER WORLD.
Now, the market is dominated by the younger crowd, and more and more, the younger crowd has stayed inside most of their young lives. Playing videogames, watching TV, surfing the net... these are common things for kids even as young as 5 years old. That's unheard of for the people who were there when MUDs were replaced (effectively) by EQ and UO.
As a consequence, entering another world just doesn't seem to be as important as just getting phat loot. Period. And more and more the draw of a game is how badass you are, not the world itself. Nothing wrong with this way of playing, but it DOES mean that if the trend continues, the days of MMOs are truly numbered as the product they are now. All age groups are tired of entering a world that isn't a world so much as just a backdrop for your badass character, and having to put up with all the stops and tolls along the way to that bad-assery. The effort involved in making your character look cool is often insulting to MMO fans.
Imagine how much all of us will hate "grinding" through a COD4-type of world.
So, I am much happier with quality games. Single player games. With updated content, sequels, and a real, interesting, storyarc. And a beggining, middle, and END. Better that then just another run-of-the-mill MMO. No matter what it’s post script.
[Begin Sarcasm]
Girls don't use the internet unless theres a webcam involved....its a physical impossibility.
They also don't play them thar vidya gaymes, mmorpg = most men online role play girls...even in ventrillo.
-kyte317
Good post Kusanoha, thank you.
I would differ in opinion about a COD mmo. Now is the time to start it, if they have that ambition. The IP is at it's peak right now. there's nothing more to add to another cod in it's current form, wait it out. Use customer demand for your product as billions in free marketing. Go balls out in design. Win or go bankrupt. They will never get this kind of opportunity again. Playing it safe is for the other guys. Take gaming and MMO's to another level and become immortal. Infinity Ward forever!!
Just talking outta my ass here of coarse. I have no idea what their plans are or what their data tells them, so I could be way off my rocker. Not to mention I have no idea what something like that would cost or the tech needed.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Yeah I agree with you. From their perspective, it would look like a good idea. In about 2-3 years (rough estimate on their dev time) WoW will once again (and hopefully finally) be declining enough that people will be wanting to jump ship in droves.
And a LOT of those players in WoW are ex-counter strike players and the like. A good COD4 MMO will feel like coming home...
It's just that an MMO is a different beast than a single player project. Hugely different. the QA requirements, the developing time, and thereby the overall COST of the project itself is vastly different. On top of which, the advertising is completely different as has been mentioned here before. We found out about COD: Modern warfare 2 not more than 12 months (really felt like 6) before it was released. We know about MMO released 3 years before they release because advertising drums up investor support that is sorely needed for a lengthy project like an MMO.
And a long development time doesn't nessisarily mean a better product. In MMOs often it means a lot of cut corners. A lot of problems to solve...
I'd still love to see a game that plays like COD4 or STALKERS and is a free-range sandbox MMO... but I'm seriously hoping it gets made by any company EXCEPT the ones that make single player games I actually like :P
[Begin Sarcasm]
Girls don't use the internet unless theres a webcam involved....its a physical impossibility.
They also don't play them thar vidya gaymes, mmorpg = most men online role play girls...even in ventrillo.
-kyte317
How little faith you have. They can damage it much, much further. Just keep watching.
You really have a problem with Darkfall, don't you? I haven't seen one post by you that was anyway positive towards the game.
So we get it, you hate it, you want to troll it, cool. What are you going to say when the second expansion releases next week and we see a large increase in the player base? That they're ruining their reputation?
And what happens when the expansion comes out and the playerbase stays the same? Thinking that an already niche game is going to see a "large increase" because of an expansion no one really knows about sounds like delusions. This is just my opinion, don't attack me for it.