Now I am fairly new to mmos. I played SWG back when it first came out and then I played a little bit of Planetside. But I haven't played any in years up until recently when I heard about SWTOR and decided I'd probably try out SWG and see what's changed. Now I'm feeling like playing mmos again and I have to say I have missed out on WOW for the most part. I was thinking about playing it, at least trying the trial. But I wasn unsure. Is it still as good as it was when everyone was going nuts over htis game back in 05/06? Why is there so much hate for this game on this board? It makes no sense to me. So many people bash this game and it being theme park oriented but if there are like 10 million people playing it wouldn't it make sense to see most people on an MMO forum enjoying this game? I've always wanted to play it, but never decided to jump in. I should have, I feel like maybe I've been missing something.
A lot of the bashing has nothing to do with the game's quality itself. Among the many reasons that people have to bash it, whether they are rational or not, there's another big reason of which I can relate.
WoW has stolen many spouses during the last 5 years. In fact, WoW stole my wife. Get this - she actually got together with and married a guy that was absolutely into WoW.. it was a match made in hell.
I may be a bit bitter about that (though her and I were thru anyway), but I don't fault the game. WoW is a good game, it's just not my thing.
Not sure why I shared that.. But whatever.
Acidon
EDIT: For anyone who thought this was kinda funny (don't blame you!), I wanted to share the fact that my FIRST wife is also hopelessly into WoW and married a guy who into it as well.
Seriously.. WoW steals my wives.
Wow, that's an amazing story. I can't decide if it's great or horrible...or both...
Just like anything else you should probably forumlate your own opinion before asking for ours because our opinions might jade you to a game you would otherwise enjoy.
Now I am fairly new to mmos. I played SWG back when it first came out and then I played a little bit of Planetside. But I haven't played any in years up until recently when I heard about SWTOR and decided I'd probably try out SWG and see what's changed. Now I'm feeling like playing mmos again and I have to say I have missed out on WOW for the most part. I was thinking about playing it, at least trying the trial. But I wasn unsure. Is it still as good as it was when everyone was going nuts over htis game back in 05/06? Why is there so much hate for this game on this board? It makes no sense to me. So many people bash this game and it being theme park oriented but if there are like 10 million people playing it wouldn't it make sense to see most people on an MMO forum enjoying this game? I've always wanted to play it, but never decided to jump in. I should have, I feel like maybe I've been missing something.
A lot of the bashing has nothing to do with the game's quality itself. Among the many reasons that people have to bash it, whether they are rational or not, there's another big reason of which I can relate.
WoW has stolen many spouses during the last 5 years. In fact, WoW stole my wife. Get this - she actually got together with and married a guy that was absolutely into WoW.. it was a match made in hell.
I may be a bit bitter about that (though her and I were thru anyway), but I don't fault the game. WoW is a good game, it's just not my thing.
Not sure why I shared that.. But whatever.
Acidon
EDIT: For anyone who thought this was kinda funny (don't blame you!), I wanted to share the fact that my FIRST wife is also hopelessly into WoW and married a guy who into it as well.
Seriously.. WoW steals my wives.
Well, in the famous word of whatever the name of that evil group in dethklok is, marriage was made to infuriate and create misery between two people. Or something along those lines.
Just try it and see for yourself if you like it. I tried it with a couple of friends and while I learned it wasnt my kind of MMO, friends of mine really liked it. Its a very good game, but in a style that some MMO players really rubs the wrong way.
For me there were some issues I really didnt like and are done different in other games :
- Crafting (I rarely like nodehunting for resources and also prefer crafters who can be 100% crafter from the start)
- Everything is designed to make it a timesink (more obvious then in other MMO's ). Two examples :
The world is obviously designed for travelling on mount. The fact they made the requirement lvl30 (or 35, dont remember exactly) doesnt make sense at all. Except to make it a reward for the extra artificial timesink. This is coming from a player who really likes to explore in games. But usually if a game has too many fed ex quests or lets you visit the same area again and again and again for another kill x quest, I get annoyed.
Refining of resources is nothing but pressing a button and then wait on a timer. If you have a stack of 20, itll simply be 20x that timer. If you have higher tier resources, itll take even longer. Its a completely useless idle time. Crafting endproducts is the same. Its too unimaginative for me and lacks interaction.
Then there are some other things :
I rarely have a problem with a games artstyle. I accept most major MMO's artstyle. Except WoW shoulderpads and EQ2 pastel coloured heavy armours. These really tick me off.
Im rarely impressed by combat that is heavily gearbased. Combine that with reputation grind and it ticks me off.
Instead of raising the lvl cap with an expansion, implement an apprenticesystem first. WoW lvling is really a lonely road for most players. It also doesnt help that a real life friend (with a high lvl toon)is so limited in teaming up with you after he convinced you to try the game. This also really shows if you team up in WoW. My experience was that PUGS lacked really basic teaming skills compared to other MMO's (unaware of teammembers location, unaware of adds, unaware of healer limits).
So this just shows its only about my personal preference. I cant say the game is bad because of my disliking for it. I also dont hate Teh Game, as if its a person. But I do hate the way certain features are implemented. Also, I have a strong suspicion that many of the WoW players who take certain gamemechanics for granted or assume its the only way, are not aware that there are other possible solutions for certain mechanics (as shown in other games).
But just like a friend of mine, some players simply prefer polish and easy to get into MMO's after a hard day of work for some casual entertainment. And WoW is just perfect from that perspective.
Far more people like WOW than dislike, so the odds are in your favor you'll enjoy it.
I had fun for a while when it first came out, but came to realize it had gameplay and features that no longer appealed to me (the gear grind being one of the greatest) so I moved on.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most of the people who dislike WoW are hardcore mmo players, and WoW just doesn't offer much in the way of challenge compared to most other mmorpgs on the market, the game hands you stuff far to easly, and the gameplay is fairly basic as well. But most of the hate comes from the community of retards that this game spawns that go into other games, you can usually immedtaly tell a wow player when they are in another mmorpg usually because they are always asking stupid questions. Honestly if you want a real mmorpg, Hold off for now and wait for FF14. You could try FF11 but I suspect it'll be fazed out in 2010 when FF14 comes out slowly.
Oh I forgot to mention, you can also find lots of free to play mmorpg's that mimic wow's gameplay and many of them actualy have far better graphics and mechanics than the orignal.
Originally posted by Scyris Most of the people who dislike WoW are hardcore mmo players
Baseless.
and WoW just doesn't offer much in the way of challenge
Subjective. (By the way, far too often people confuse challenging content with merely inconvenient. It's hard to call WoW inconvenient, that's true.)
compared to most other mmorpgs
Weasel words.
the game hands you stuff far to easly
A lie. Historically, the difficulty have been changing from tier to tier. (T1 - easy, T2 - moderate/hard, T3 - hard, T4 - easy, T5 - hard, T6 - moderate/hard, T7 - easy, T8 - moderate.) Ahh yes, you can get outdated tiers for badges - that's true. But they are outdated.
and the gameplay is fairly basic as well
Subjective. (Or a lie. Care to give some proof? Link the Armory profile of any of your characters that has a Gladiator title or some serious Feats of Strength.)
the community of retards
Baseless. (Also it's an insult that immediately disqualifies all your further statements and mark you as a hater.)
you can usually immedtaly tell a wow player when they are in another mmorpg
Yes, everyone you personally dislike is a WoW player.
usually because they are always asking stupid questions
Of course. Also WoW players eat children. True story.
Honestly if you want a real mmorpg, Hold off for now and wait for FF14
/facepalm Honestly, I wanted to stay serious... but lol'd anyway. :-) FF is by far the most over-hyped, childish (I'd even say infantile) and dumbed down RPG series ever.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Most of the people who dislike WoW are hardcore mmo players, and WoW just doesn't offer much in the way of challenge compared to most other mmorpgs on the market, the game hands you stuff far to easly, and the gameplay is fairly basic as well. But most of the hate comes from the community of retards that this game spawns that go into other games, you can usually immedtaly tell a wow player when they are in another mmorpg usually because they are always asking stupid questions. Honestly if you want a real mmorpg, Hold off for now and wait for FF14. You could try FF11 but I suspect it'll be fazed out in 2010 when FF14 comes out slowly. Oh I forgot to mention, you can also find lots of free to play mmorpg's that mimic wow's gameplay and many of them actualy have far better graphics and mechanics than the orignal.
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
A lie. Historically, the difficulty have been changing from tier to tier. (T1 - easy, T2 - moderate/hard, T3 - hard, T4 - easy, T5 - hard, T6 - moderate/hard, T7 - easy, T8 - moderate.) Ahh yes, you can get outdated tiers for badges - that's true. But they are outdated.
How is that a lie?
Or did you somehow miss the fact that you can get full T9 by running VoA and doing badge runs of Naxx?
Nothing outdated about that at all, in fact you can get the highest iLvL items available ingame through badges, so if anyone is lying it is you.
Sad when someone has to produce blatant fabrications to try and defend a video game.
If you like to do a solofest of quest grinding then group up to get some phat loot and everyone scatters, the go back to a quest grind and repeat all that over till max level. Then get in groups and do the same raid instances over and over and over again to get that phat loot, then this is the game for you. Oh wait I guess you could do the same BG over and over and over again for phat loot too.
Originally posted by cyan85 To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
So the 'normal activities' you admit 'are very 'easy'.
And the 'raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.'
I like raiding, but not all the time. By your own admission everything else is easy in WoW.
So why would I play something that is only challenging part of the time.
I want a game that is extremely challenging all the time thanks.
In WoW, 'normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy'. These activities are the bulk of the game. Therefore the bulk of the game is very easy.
'Grats, you just convinced me that WoW is too easy and not hardcore enough.
A lie. Historically, the difficulty have been changing from tier to tier. (T1 - easy, T2 - moderate/hard, T3 - hard, T4 - easy, T5 - hard, T6 - moderate/hard, T7 - easy, T8 - moderate.) Ahh yes, you can get outdated tiers for badges - that's true. But they are outdated.
How is that a lie?
Or did you somehow miss the fact that you can get full T9 by running VoA and doing badge runs of Naxx?
Nothing outdated about that at all, in fact you can get the highest iLvL items available ingame through badges, so if anyone is lying it is you.
Sad when someone has to produce blatant fabrications to try and defend a video game.
Euph, get your facts straight before sprewing nonsense here.
There is more than just 1 T9, there are 3 sets. Item level 232, 245 and 258. % peices of gear for each set. Which one are you talking about?
Naxx 25man drops only item level 226 tier gear, that is T8.5, so you are wrong.
VoA only drops item level 232 and 245 gloves+legs. The other 3 tier pieces for item level 232 and 245 do not drop there. So you are wrong again, not full T9, and not the item level 258 tier 9.
Sad when someone with totally no knowledge of the game started balant fabrications to try and smear a video game.
Before you lie try practice before a mirror. Do you believe in what you see in the mirror?
Most of the people who dislike WoW are hardcore mmo players, and WoW just doesn't offer much in the way of challenge compared to most other mmorpgs on the market, the game hands you stuff far to easly, and the gameplay is fairly basic as well. But most of the hate comes from the community of retards that this game spawns that go into other games, you can usually immedtaly tell a wow player when they are in another mmorpg usually because they are always asking stupid questions. Honestly if you want a real mmorpg, Hold off for now and wait for FF14. You could try FF11 but I suspect it'll be fazed out in 2010 when FF14 comes out slowly. Oh I forgot to mention, you can also find lots of free to play mmorpg's that mimic wow's gameplay and many of them actualy have far better graphics and mechanics than the orignal.
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
To be honest, repetition does not equate being 'hard'. And all raids in WoW are not all that hard, nor is getting the best gear. It is, however very repetetive which leads to being boring. Gear score and itemization really only means you were able to suffer through running the same instances over and over and over again for token drops.
Anyway you slice it, WoW isnt that hard of a game. If it was, you would see far less people running around in the top tier gear than you currently do.
Dont get me wrong, WoW is a good game for what it is, but dont make it out to be anything more challenging than what it is. Sure Ulduar added a bit of thinking to the whole raid thing, but it still gets repetetive after running it several times in row.
What really kills the challenge of WoW is that the game is over faster than a game of tic-tac-toe. Even at a casual pace you can hit level cap in under a month and then its farming raid instances till a new dungeon comes out.
And just incase, Pann on Alleria.
As for the T10 thing, kinda hard to post what isnt in game yet, seeing as TOC is T9.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
If you like to do a solofest of quest grinding then group up to get some phat loot and everyone scatters, the go back to a quest grind and repeat all that over till max level. Then get in groups and do the same raid instances over and over and over again to get that phat loot, then this is the game for you. Oh wait I guess you could do the same BG over and over and over again for phat loot too.
If that is the way you play WoW, then yes that is what you get out of WoW.
I wouldn't really recommend WoW's free trial as the expansions added pretty much everything the current players experience and enjoy. I never personally played WoW much as it wasn't my cup of tea but it suits 12 million fine which leads me to believe theirs something entertaining about it. You have to know someone who plays WoW, i'd say go get a in-person review of the game and make your judgement on what you see and maybe the trial but I doubt it'll show you all the cool new stuff.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
If you like to do a solofest of quest grinding then group up to get some phat loot and everyone scatters, the go back to a quest grind and repeat all that over till max level. Then get in groups and do the same raid instances over and over and over again to get that phat loot, then this is the game for you. Oh wait I guess you could do the same BG over and over and over again for phat loot too.
If that is the way you play WoW, then yes that is what you get out of WoW.
Believe me I tried to get people to group up with me all the time, but it don't happen why? Because you can pretty much solo the quests and if there is no reason to group up people wont. If you could solo dungeons you know people would just do that themselves.
But really all there is to MMO's is Quests, killing mobs, getting loot and PvPing, and there is crafting. I enjoy questing but I enjoy it more with a group. I enjoy killing mobs but more in groups. Im sure you see what im getting at. Im just stating my experience with WoW, and It wasn't my choice to play this way its how the game was made and other peoples choices that forced me to play the way I did. If it were up to me, Id be grouped up pretty much 24/7.
If you like to do a solofest of quest grinding then group up to get some phat loot and everyone scatters, the go back to a quest grind and repeat all that over till max level. Then get in groups and do the same raid instances over and over and over again to get that phat loot, then this is the game for you. Oh wait I guess you could do the same BG over and over and over again for phat loot too.
Old info.
Get an update on current WOW play please.
24/7 group play at any time at any level as of patch 3.3. (ty cross servers).
And in Cata two new leveling systems: a guild leveling ranking in PVE and PVP (together with rated BG's (like the Arena's now) and a new end game leveling system (Path of Titans).
More than enough challenges to a newbee.
The thing is it wasn't all that hard to find a group for a dungeon, that wasn't the problem, the problem was that you couldn't find a group just to do quests. Id tried so many times asking people in the area I was doing quests, if they wanted to group up with me. Most of the time I never got an answer. Maybe it was just my server or something but ive never met so many anti social people in my life.
But its cool that they are adding in some new stuff to do but Im just tired of fantasy games in general. Sorry for not being up to date, I don't really pay attention to games I don't play anymore. I was just stating my experiences from when I last played 6 months ago.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
So the 'normal activities' you admit 'are very 'easy'.
And the 'raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.'
I like raiding, but not all the time. By your own admission everything else is easy in WoW.
So why would I play something that is only challenging part of the time.
I want a game that is extremely challenging all the time thanks.
In WoW, 'normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy'. These activities are the bulk of the game. Therefore the bulk of the game is very easy.
'Grats, you just convinced me that WoW is too easy and not hardcore enough.
WoW is a game that tries to provide different kinds of gameplay to a wide spectrum of players. If you can see deeper into the game, it allows casual gaming and pretty hard minimaxing. Lets take a hunter for the sake of illustration. You can do it for any class, and there are more than just the ways I illustrate below.
Hunters have 3 talent trees, have pets. That means a bit of gear manipulation. Hunters can wear mail, and leather, technically they can wear cloths but there is hardly a reason for trying it out.
For casual players, hunters are good. You grab a tank pet, send him out, he draws in enemies you shoot. If the mob dies you win. If the pet dies, you try to finish off the mob, or feign dead. That is very easy, unless you really screw up the pull and bring in the whole army.
For casual players, hunters can wear just about anything that drops, except plate. Armor that give dps is good. Any non plate dps gear will give agility which is good. So the choice of armor is pretty wide, leather and mail. Hunters can use various 1 hand and 2 hands, even polearms. So choice of weapons is also quite flexble. Many quests drop range weapons. Ammo are very cheap from vendors. One daily quest at level 80 brings in 13g+ which means 13x4000 ammo from the vendor. If you need to use up that much ammo, you need to kill a lot of things.
For the slightly less casual players they have a lot of things to try to finetune. Choice of armor pieces to match talent tree alone is a long story. The 3 talent trees are very varied. Marksman works through autoshooting, so armor penetration is nice. Survival works through a variety of skill, and uses agility and haste, which is a delicate balance. Beast masters have innate haste, so agility is all they needed. Picking a mix of talents from the trees and matching this with desired gear statistics is a long process. The highest gear level is not always the best. All these WoW critiques who are blinded to this are foolish. It is not a gear grind, it is a plan, a process to slowly approach a target, while maintaining competitive performance during the interim stages of temporary gear.
For the even more demanding players, hunters need to meet various statistics to hit harder. They need 8% to hit to minimise miss. Getting to exactly 8%, or minimising any excess % above 8% means quite a lot of gear planning. Get a gear with huge hit? You are way over the hit cap, find others to swap out. After hit, the rest of the gear optimisation depends on talent choice. If you go the marksman route, the target is 600ArP, from gear and gems. And so on. With so many combinations, it is never possible to finish talking. With new gear, the optimal gear combo changes. So whenever you get a new gear, that upsets the caps, you have a lot of swapping to try out.
Now for the more demanding players, you can look at your crafting professions and try find your synergy. Since Blizz constantly change the fine points about professions, some players actually dump a profession and retrain another just for the change. For a hunter, you need ammo. Engineers can make ammo. That means you would like to make the hunter an engineer, or have an alt with engineer skills. To make ammo, you need minerals, a miner profession is good for the hunter or an alt. But the most effective profession combo could be jewellery crafter + blacksmith. However, that means you need a miner to feed your jewels and BS, or buy from market (which means friends or connections). Tailor actually makes some very great cloak enchants, while leatherworking enables you to make you own superb gear. Right now, crafting usually makes 2 Best-in-slot pieces. The choice of crafting profession alone is a big headache. You can only pick 2 for your hunter, and maybe a few alts with the other professions.
From gear you have gemming and enchant, there are tons of gems to choose from and sometimes a couple options from enchanting. These can be used to boost one vital statistics or balance out a character, or fill in missing aspects, say to bridge to gap to hit cap.
All these will have to modified by the buffs you expect from raid or team members. Some other class can boost your hit chance (so you need not go all the way to hit cap), or your statistics (so you better gem for statistics). Some hunter gear benefits more when a druid exist or a paly.
The PvP gear is another story altogether, and there is another set of gear, gemming and enchanting for that.
There are also secondary profession (you can learn them all) or other primary professions (you can only have 2) that helps. Cooking provides food that enhances vital statistics, and feasts that can feed the entire raid. To cook you need food, fishing is a great way to get food, and the best raid feast use a lot of fish. You would also benefit from drinking potions, hence alchemist, which also allows you to transmute gems and various very valuable crafting inputs.
So even before you step into a raid, you have a lot of things to work on, to minimax.
Raids and dungeon runs are another long story altogether, a hunter's job will change depending on the raid composition, boss fight and sometimes relative ability of members. I will leave the discussion here, its getting too long.
WoW is a game that can be played casually for fun, or very scientifically, using exact mathematical models to compute expected average damage under different scenario. You can be as casual or as minimaxing, as you enjoy it.
Stop preaching the wrong notion that WoW is a simple game. The maths model behind it is complex. Hunters are already the easiest class as they only range DPS. Classes like druid who can dps (melee or range), tank or heal will multiply the degree of complexity beyond bounds.
Most of the people who dislike WoW are hardcore mmo players, and WoW just doesn't offer much in the way of challenge compared to most other mmorpgs on the market, the game hands you stuff far to easly, and the gameplay is fairly basic as well. But most of the hate comes from the community of retards that this game spawns that go into other games, you can usually immedtaly tell a wow player when they are in another mmorpg usually because they are always asking stupid questions. Honestly if you want a real mmorpg, Hold off for now and wait for FF14. You could try FF11 but I suspect it'll be fazed out in 2010 when FF14 comes out slowly. Oh I forgot to mention, you can also find lots of free to play mmorpg's that mimic wow's gameplay and many of them actualy have far better graphics and mechanics than the orignal.
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
Hey now, don't be getting all self-righteous on this one. On these forums, even the most dedicated proponents of WoW fail to meet those same standards. Granted there are far more people here that bash on WoW than support it but no need for seperate standards. I have yet to see one person, for or against WoW on these forums, provide that proof your stating there.
As for WoW being babycakes easy, no it's not. True, you can solo from level 1 to 80 if you wish, but it does take work to get the 'current' top gear - skill and lots of work. The point that needs to be made though is that its the team effort that's required on that end. If you have a good, supportive, team (guild) then it can be accomplished. If you don't have a good and supportive team (guild) you won't achieve it. Most of the people who support WoW have that good team, and most that leave WoW and hate it had the opposite. If you want some advise on playing WoW, thats the best I can ever give you - find a good guild and stick with it once you find it.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Most of the people who dislike WoW are hardcore mmo players, and WoW just doesn't offer much in the way of challenge compared to most other mmorpgs on the market, the game hands you stuff far to easly, and the gameplay is fairly basic as well. But most of the hate comes from the community of retards that this game spawns that go into other games, you can usually immedtaly tell a wow player when they are in another mmorpg usually because they are always asking stupid questions. Honestly if you want a real mmorpg, Hold off for now and wait for FF14. You could try FF11 but I suspect it'll be fazed out in 2010 when FF14 comes out slowly. Oh I forgot to mention, you can also find lots of free to play mmorpg's that mimic wow's gameplay and many of them actualy have far better graphics and mechanics than the orignal.
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
Hey now, don't be getting all self-righteous on this one. On these forums, even the most dedicated proponents of WoW fail to meet those same standards. Granted there are far more people here that bash on WoW than support it but no need for seperate standards. I have yet to see one person, for or against WoW on these forums, provide that proof your stating there.
As for WoW being babycakes easy, no it's not. True, you can solo from level 1 to 80 if you wish, but it does take work to get the 'current' top gear - skill and lots of work. The point that needs to be made though is that its the team effort that's required on that end. If you have a good, supportive, team (guild) then it can be accomplished. If you don't have a good and supportive team (guild) you won't achieve it. Most of the people who support WoW have that good team, and most that leave WoW and hate it had the opposite. If you want some advise on playing WoW, thats the best I can ever give you - find a good guild and stick with it once you find it.
I won't link my main over here, for some good reasons. Instead, I'll link one of my alts that I've raided/done arena with till Ulduar(done all raids till M'uru and got about 2,1k(in S3 as holy) in BC as well, even if some of the achivements won't show up because BC ones weren't properly tracked):
And yes, I prefer WoW over the MMORPGs that claim to be hard, but the only hard thing in them is grinding tank-and-spank mobs and bosses. At least WoW demands twitch, coordonation and overall knowledge about the game, even more now when it's a lot more fast paced than BC(even if I prefer BC to WOTLK for many reasons).
Comments
A lot of the bashing has nothing to do with the game's quality itself. Among the many reasons that people have to bash it, whether they are rational or not, there's another big reason of which I can relate.
WoW has stolen many spouses during the last 5 years. In fact, WoW stole my wife. Get this - she actually got together with and married a guy that was absolutely into WoW.. it was a match made in hell.
I may be a bit bitter about that (though her and I were thru anyway), but I don't fault the game. WoW is a good game, it's just not my thing.
Not sure why I shared that.. But whatever.
Acidon
EDIT: For anyone who thought this was kinda funny (don't blame you!), I wanted to share the fact that my FIRST wife is also hopelessly into WoW and married a guy who into it as well.
Seriously.. WoW steals my wives.
Wow, that's an amazing story. I can't decide if it's great or horrible...or both...
Just like anything else you should probably forumlate your own opinion before asking for ours because our opinions might jade you to a game you would otherwise enjoy.
A lot of the bashing has nothing to do with the game's quality itself. Among the many reasons that people have to bash it, whether they are rational or not, there's another big reason of which I can relate.
WoW has stolen many spouses during the last 5 years. In fact, WoW stole my wife. Get this - she actually got together with and married a guy that was absolutely into WoW.. it was a match made in hell.
I may be a bit bitter about that (though her and I were thru anyway), but I don't fault the game. WoW is a good game, it's just not my thing.
Not sure why I shared that.. But whatever.
Acidon
EDIT: For anyone who thought this was kinda funny (don't blame you!), I wanted to share the fact that my FIRST wife is also hopelessly into WoW and married a guy who into it as well.
Seriously.. WoW steals my wives.
Well, in the famous word of whatever the name of that evil group in dethklok is, marriage was made to infuriate and create misery between two people. Or something along those lines.
the gist, dont get married I'm happy for ya !
Just try it and see for yourself if you like it. I tried it with a couple of friends and while I learned it wasnt my kind of MMO, friends of mine really liked it. Its a very good game, but in a style that some MMO players really rubs the wrong way.
For me there were some issues I really didnt like and are done different in other games :
- Crafting (I rarely like nodehunting for resources and also prefer crafters who can be 100% crafter from the start)
- Everything is designed to make it a timesink (more obvious then in other MMO's ). Two examples :
Then there are some other things :
So this just shows its only about my personal preference. I cant say the game is bad because of my disliking for it. I also dont hate Teh Game, as if its a person. But I do hate the way certain features are implemented. Also, I have a strong suspicion that many of the WoW players who take certain gamemechanics for granted or assume its the only way, are not aware that there are other possible solutions for certain mechanics (as shown in other games).
But just like a friend of mine, some players simply prefer polish and easy to get into MMO's after a hard day of work for some casual entertainment. And WoW is just perfect from that perspective.
Far more people like WOW than dislike, so the odds are in your favor you'll enjoy it.
I had fun for a while when it first came out, but came to realize it had gameplay and features that no longer appealed to me (the gear grind being one of the greatest) so I moved on.
I don't hate WOW, but I don't play it either.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most of the people who dislike WoW are hardcore mmo players, and WoW just doesn't offer much in the way of challenge compared to most other mmorpgs on the market, the game hands you stuff far to easly, and the gameplay is fairly basic as well. But most of the hate comes from the community of retards that this game spawns that go into other games, you can usually immedtaly tell a wow player when they are in another mmorpg usually because they are always asking stupid questions. Honestly if you want a real mmorpg, Hold off for now and wait for FF14. You could try FF11 but I suspect it'll be fazed out in 2010 when FF14 comes out slowly.
Oh I forgot to mention, you can also find lots of free to play mmorpg's that mimic wow's gameplay and many of them actualy have far better graphics and mechanics than the orignal.
Try it, OP. Either way, this board is the last place where you should ask what to play.
Subjective. (By the way, far too often people confuse challenging content with merely inconvenient. It's hard to call WoW inconvenient, that's true.)
Weasel words.
A lie. Historically, the difficulty have been changing from tier to tier. (T1 - easy, T2 - moderate/hard, T3 - hard, T4 - easy, T5 - hard, T6 - moderate/hard, T7 - easy, T8 - moderate.) Ahh yes, you can get outdated tiers for badges - that's true. But they are outdated.
Subjective. (Or a lie. Care to give some proof? Link the Armory profile of any of your characters that has a Gladiator title or some serious Feats of Strength.)
Baseless. (Also it's an insult that immediately disqualifies all your further statements and mark you as a hater.) Yes, everyone you personally dislike is a WoW player.
Of course. Also WoW players eat children. True story.
/facepalm
Honestly, I wanted to stay serious... but lol'd anyway. :-) FF is by far the most over-hyped, childish (I'd even say infantile) and dumbed down RPG series ever.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
How is that a lie?
Or did you somehow miss the fact that you can get full T9 by running VoA and doing badge runs of Naxx?
Nothing outdated about that at all, in fact you can get the highest iLvL items available ingame through badges, so if anyone is lying it is you.
Sad when someone has to produce blatant fabrications to try and defend a video game.
If you like to do a solofest of quest grinding then group up to get some phat loot and everyone scatters, the go back to a quest grind and repeat all that over till max level. Then get in groups and do the same raid instances over and over and over again to get that phat loot, then this is the game for you. Oh wait I guess you could do the same BG over and over and over again for phat loot too.
[b]
So the 'normal activities' you admit 'are very 'easy'.
And the 'raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.'
I like raiding, but not all the time. By your own admission everything else is easy in WoW.
So why would I play something that is only challenging part of the time.
I want a game that is extremely challenging all the time thanks.
In WoW, 'normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy'. These activities are the bulk of the game. Therefore the bulk of the game is very easy.
'Grats, you just convinced me that WoW is too easy and not hardcore enough.
How is that a lie?
Or did you somehow miss the fact that you can get full T9 by running VoA and doing badge runs of Naxx?
Nothing outdated about that at all, in fact you can get the highest iLvL items available ingame through badges, so if anyone is lying it is you.
Sad when someone has to produce blatant fabrications to try and defend a video game.
Euph, get your facts straight before sprewing nonsense here.
There is more than just 1 T9, there are 3 sets. Item level 232, 245 and 258. % peices of gear for each set. Which one are you talking about?
Naxx 25man drops only item level 226 tier gear, that is T8.5, so you are wrong.
VoA only drops item level 232 and 245 gloves+legs. The other 3 tier pieces for item level 232 and 245 do not drop there. So you are wrong again, not full T9, and not the item level 258 tier 9.
Sad when someone with totally no knowledge of the game started balant fabrications to try and smear a video game.
Before you lie try practice before a mirror. Do you believe in what you see in the mirror?
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
To be honest, repetition does not equate being 'hard'. And all raids in WoW are not all that hard, nor is getting the best gear. It is, however very repetetive which leads to being boring. Gear score and itemization really only means you were able to suffer through running the same instances over and over and over again for token drops.
Anyway you slice it, WoW isnt that hard of a game. If it was, you would see far less people running around in the top tier gear than you currently do.
Dont get me wrong, WoW is a good game for what it is, but dont make it out to be anything more challenging than what it is. Sure Ulduar added a bit of thinking to the whole raid thing, but it still gets repetetive after running it several times in row.
What really kills the challenge of WoW is that the game is over faster than a game of tic-tac-toe. Even at a casual pace you can hit level cap in under a month and then its farming raid instances till a new dungeon comes out.
And just incase, Pann on Alleria.
As for the T10 thing, kinda hard to post what isnt in game yet, seeing as TOC is T9.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
If that is the way you play WoW, then yes that is what you get out of WoW.
I wouldn't really recommend WoW's free trial as the expansions added pretty much everything the current players experience and enjoy. I never personally played WoW much as it wasn't my cup of tea but it suits 12 million fine which leads me to believe theirs something entertaining about it. You have to know someone who plays WoW, i'd say go get a in-person review of the game and make your judgement on what you see and maybe the trial but I doubt it'll show you all the cool new stuff.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
If that is the way you play WoW, then yes that is what you get out of WoW.
Believe me I tried to get people to group up with me all the time, but it don't happen why? Because you can pretty much solo the quests and if there is no reason to group up people wont. If you could solo dungeons you know people would just do that themselves.
But really all there is to MMO's is Quests, killing mobs, getting loot and PvPing, and there is crafting. I enjoy questing but I enjoy it more with a group. I enjoy killing mobs but more in groups. Im sure you see what im getting at. Im just stating my experience with WoW, and It wasn't my choice to play this way its how the game was made and other peoples choices that forced me to play the way I did. If it were up to me, Id be grouped up pretty much 24/7.
Hate is unfortunately pervasive on all released MMOs featured on these forums.
Old info.
Get an update on current WOW play please.
24/7 group play at any time at any level as of patch 3.3. (ty cross servers).
And in Cata two new leveling systems: a guild leveling ranking in PVE and PVP (together with rated BG's (like the Arena's now) and a new end game leveling system (Path of Titans).
More than enough challenges to a newbee.
The thing is it wasn't all that hard to find a group for a dungeon, that wasn't the problem, the problem was that you couldn't find a group just to do quests. Id tried so many times asking people in the area I was doing quests, if they wanted to group up with me. Most of the time I never got an answer. Maybe it was just my server or something but ive never met so many anti social people in my life.
But its cool that they are adding in some new stuff to do but Im just tired of fantasy games in general. Sorry for not being up to date, I don't really pay attention to games I don't play anymore. I was just stating my experiences from when I last played 6 months ago.
So the 'normal activities' you admit 'are very 'easy'.
And the 'raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.'
I like raiding, but not all the time. By your own admission everything else is easy in WoW.
So why would I play something that is only challenging part of the time.
I want a game that is extremely challenging all the time thanks.
In WoW, 'normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy'. These activities are the bulk of the game. Therefore the bulk of the game is very easy.
'Grats, you just convinced me that WoW is too easy and not hardcore enough.
WoW is a game that tries to provide different kinds of gameplay to a wide spectrum of players. If you can see deeper into the game, it allows casual gaming and pretty hard minimaxing. Lets take a hunter for the sake of illustration. You can do it for any class, and there are more than just the ways I illustrate below.
Hunters have 3 talent trees, have pets. That means a bit of gear manipulation. Hunters can wear mail, and leather, technically they can wear cloths but there is hardly a reason for trying it out.
For casual players, hunters are good. You grab a tank pet, send him out, he draws in enemies you shoot. If the mob dies you win. If the pet dies, you try to finish off the mob, or feign dead. That is very easy, unless you really screw up the pull and bring in the whole army.
For casual players, hunters can wear just about anything that drops, except plate. Armor that give dps is good. Any non plate dps gear will give agility which is good. So the choice of armor is pretty wide, leather and mail. Hunters can use various 1 hand and 2 hands, even polearms. So choice of weapons is also quite flexble. Many quests drop range weapons. Ammo are very cheap from vendors. One daily quest at level 80 brings in 13g+ which means 13x4000 ammo from the vendor. If you need to use up that much ammo, you need to kill a lot of things.
For the slightly less casual players they have a lot of things to try to finetune. Choice of armor pieces to match talent tree alone is a long story. The 3 talent trees are very varied. Marksman works through autoshooting, so armor penetration is nice. Survival works through a variety of skill, and uses agility and haste, which is a delicate balance. Beast masters have innate haste, so agility is all they needed. Picking a mix of talents from the trees and matching this with desired gear statistics is a long process. The highest gear level is not always the best. All these WoW critiques who are blinded to this are foolish. It is not a gear grind, it is a plan, a process to slowly approach a target, while maintaining competitive performance during the interim stages of temporary gear.
For the even more demanding players, hunters need to meet various statistics to hit harder. They need 8% to hit to minimise miss. Getting to exactly 8%, or minimising any excess % above 8% means quite a lot of gear planning. Get a gear with huge hit? You are way over the hit cap, find others to swap out. After hit, the rest of the gear optimisation depends on talent choice. If you go the marksman route, the target is 600ArP, from gear and gems. And so on. With so many combinations, it is never possible to finish talking. With new gear, the optimal gear combo changes. So whenever you get a new gear, that upsets the caps, you have a lot of swapping to try out.
Now for the more demanding players, you can look at your crafting professions and try find your synergy. Since Blizz constantly change the fine points about professions, some players actually dump a profession and retrain another just for the change. For a hunter, you need ammo. Engineers can make ammo. That means you would like to make the hunter an engineer, or have an alt with engineer skills. To make ammo, you need minerals, a miner profession is good for the hunter or an alt. But the most effective profession combo could be jewellery crafter + blacksmith. However, that means you need a miner to feed your jewels and BS, or buy from market (which means friends or connections). Tailor actually makes some very great cloak enchants, while leatherworking enables you to make you own superb gear. Right now, crafting usually makes 2 Best-in-slot pieces. The choice of crafting profession alone is a big headache. You can only pick 2 for your hunter, and maybe a few alts with the other professions.
From gear you have gemming and enchant, there are tons of gems to choose from and sometimes a couple options from enchanting. These can be used to boost one vital statistics or balance out a character, or fill in missing aspects, say to bridge to gap to hit cap.
All these will have to modified by the buffs you expect from raid or team members. Some other class can boost your hit chance (so you need not go all the way to hit cap), or your statistics (so you better gem for statistics). Some hunter gear benefits more when a druid exist or a paly.
The PvP gear is another story altogether, and there is another set of gear, gemming and enchanting for that.
There are also secondary profession (you can learn them all) or other primary professions (you can only have 2) that helps. Cooking provides food that enhances vital statistics, and feasts that can feed the entire raid. To cook you need food, fishing is a great way to get food, and the best raid feast use a lot of fish. You would also benefit from drinking potions, hence alchemist, which also allows you to transmute gems and various very valuable crafting inputs.
So even before you step into a raid, you have a lot of things to work on, to minimax.
Raids and dungeon runs are another long story altogether, a hunter's job will change depending on the raid composition, boss fight and sometimes relative ability of members. I will leave the discussion here, its getting too long.
WoW is a game that can be played casually for fun, or very scientifically, using exact mathematical models to compute expected average damage under different scenario. You can be as casual or as minimaxing, as you enjoy it.
Stop preaching the wrong notion that WoW is a simple game. The maths model behind it is complex. Hunters are already the easiest class as they only range DPS. Classes like druid who can dps (melee or range), tank or heal will multiply the degree of complexity beyond bounds.
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
Hey now, don't be getting all self-righteous on this one. On these forums, even the most dedicated proponents of WoW fail to meet those same standards. Granted there are far more people here that bash on WoW than support it but no need for seperate standards. I have yet to see one person, for or against WoW on these forums, provide that proof your stating there.
As for WoW being babycakes easy, no it's not. True, you can solo from level 1 to 80 if you wish, but it does take work to get the 'current' top gear - skill and lots of work. The point that needs to be made though is that its the team effort that's required on that end. If you have a good, supportive, team (guild) then it can be accomplished. If you don't have a good and supportive team (guild) you won't achieve it. Most of the people who support WoW have that good team, and most that leave WoW and hate it had the opposite. If you want some advise on playing WoW, thats the best I can ever give you - find a good guild and stick with it once you find it.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Oh, gimme a break. WoW isn't hardcore enough? If that's true, please show me your 2k+ rating or tier 10 gear, please. On these boards, a lot of idiots spout off about WoW being too easy and carebear for them, yet not one of these people has ever presented evidence (such as a decked out character or battlemaster achievement, etc) to substantiate it. To them, I guess hardcore and challenging = extreme grinding and steep death penalites. Basically, poor game design features made to inconvenience the player. Maybe when they finally realize the difference between difficult and inconvenient, they'll understand why WoW was so successful and why all of their favorite MMOs bombed.
To the OP, don't listen to anyone that says WoW is too easy. Yes, normal activities such as leveling, questing, battlegrounds, etc, are very easy, but getting the very best gear in the game whether through arena PvP or 25-man heroic raiding, is extremely challenging and hardcore.
Hey now, don't be getting all self-righteous on this one. On these forums, even the most dedicated proponents of WoW fail to meet those same standards. Granted there are far more people here that bash on WoW than support it but no need for seperate standards. I have yet to see one person, for or against WoW on these forums, provide that proof your stating there.
As for WoW being babycakes easy, no it's not. True, you can solo from level 1 to 80 if you wish, but it does take work to get the 'current' top gear - skill and lots of work. The point that needs to be made though is that its the team effort that's required on that end. If you have a good, supportive, team (guild) then it can be accomplished. If you don't have a good and supportive team (guild) you won't achieve it. Most of the people who support WoW have that good team, and most that leave WoW and hate it had the opposite. If you want some advise on playing WoW, thats the best I can ever give you - find a good guild and stick with it once you find it.
I won't link my main over here, for some good reasons. Instead, I'll link one of my alts that I've raided/done arena with till Ulduar(done all raids till M'uru and got about 2,1k(in S3 as holy) in BC as well, even if some of the achivements won't show up because BC ones weren't properly tracked):
LinkAnd yes, I prefer WoW over the MMORPGs that claim to be hard, but the only hard thing in them is grinding tank-and-spank mobs and bosses. At least WoW demands twitch, coordonation and overall knowledge about the game, even more now when it's a lot more fast paced than BC(even if I prefer BC to WOTLK for many reasons).