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Final Fantasy XI: Is FFXI Doomed?
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com Correspndent Joseph Lavender takes a quick look at what might happen with Final Fantasy XI when its quasi-sequel Final Fantasy XIV is finally released. Will the game live or die?
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"What is going to Happen to Final Fantasy XI?"
With the announcement of Final Fantasy XIV out in the open many Final Fantasy XI veterans are asking themselves this very question.
Unfortunately, it's not a question that can be totally answered yet. We don't really have enough information from Square Enix regarding FFXIV to be able to tell exactly what kind of game its going to be. A lot of FFXI old timers are hoping that the game will hold true to its FFXI roots, while others are hoping that the new Square Enix game is a completely different beast. Still others hope it might be a mixture of the old and the new.
Read Is FFXI Doomed?
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Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Well the original EQ is still alive and kicking, boggling my mind!
I think with the amount of time and effort sunk into XI, plus the relationships built it will carry the game on.
New Subs? Now that I don't see happening in mass waves!
Good article overall.
Just one nit-pick: FFXI supports English, Japanese, French and German languages via the autotranslator now.
One other thing is the mention of Fields of Valor and Level Sync. While I agree that SE's intention was likely to add content that would allow people something to do while waiting for a party (Fields of Valor), and a way to deal with the ever-present challenge of finding players within the right level range to keep the xp as good as possible (level sync)... I don't think they thought it through as thoroughly as they could have. Instead of supplementing parties, those two features (as well as Campaign Battle), have helped in subverting grouping in the game.
Instead of seeing Fields of Valor as something to do while waiting for a party, many players are leveling solely through it in lieu of partying at all - at most, they have a friend or two they "static" them with.
Instead of level sync being used as a way to close the odd level or two difference to keep a party's level range ideal, people are using it as a way to level to 75 in far lower level areas, which then makes it much more difficult to assemble or find higher level parties.
Campaign Battle has become the alternative to grouping up to xp because it's a very safe way to do it - tag up for a battle get lots of xp at the end of it and lose nothing if you die.
So... while the ideas unto themselves are great... assuming SE still values the "grouping" aspect of the game... I don't believe they thought those ideas through thoroughly enough. So now, instead of being supplemental content to xp parties... people have turned those activities into replacements for xp parties.
I personally think that Campaign Battle + Level Sync + Fields of Valor (not to mention Astral Burn parties that seem to be "the norm" for many) = the deterioration of grouping and, thus, a key part of XI's social element, which has always been one of its star features.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
One of the main draws for FFXI for a lot of the people I know is the fact that the game was harsh and challenging. With great challenge comes great reward and sense of accomplishment. The devs have stated that in many ways FFXIV will not be like FFXI, and may be a game that is very casual friendly. If the game is overly casual and easy, then I think FFXI may still have a strong appeal for the type of MMO player looking for a more hardcore PvE experience.
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I find this part of your post misguided. The grouping became excessively tedious, I don' tknow if you actually played FFXI before any of those changes but as someone who has leveled over 250 levels prior to that going live...
I waited DAYS for parties sometimes... literally logged in, during peak hours, waited DAYS OF REAL LIFE TIME to find a party.
The things you say changed and perhaps ruined grouping forever are probably the reasons why people still play this game.
The social element will always be there, you can't solo missions, you can't solo the new content, you can't solo anything, you still need to group, that doesn't change the social aspect at all. It will always be the strongest grouping oriented game on the market. The things they added only helped it.
Good article overall. To those who say the Campaign, Fields of Valor, and Level Sync are destroying parties, I have to disagree. Fields of Valor can be used in parties for better experience, Level Sync makes it so that jobs like Black Mage that couldn't get parties at higher levels now can, lower level parties can't get close to higher level parties experience an hour, and Campaign isn't a way to get exp with no penalties. You have to join skill up parties since you don't skill up in Campaign, which warrants parties as well.
Playing - EVE, Wurm
Retired - Final Fantasy XI, Anarchy Online, Mabinogi
Waiting - ArcheAge, Salem
If I were playing FFXI I should not worry about this topic, it's going to be something very different, and besides, FFXIV is all about your weapons...
There is no knowledge that is no power.
square enix has said that it will exist alongside FFXI because they are completely different games. FFXI is a more hardcore mmo, whereas FFXIV is going to be a very casual game.
I'm kind of curious about FFXI also I mean I love the game but I wonder if SE plans on releasing new expansions for it and no I don't mean add-ons I mean full blown expansions. FFXI has and will always be my favorite MMO no game can compete with it for me.
i believe that the game well go on and that the same time i hope ff14 isnt dumbed down
Only the Dead See the End of War
The content additions are good and bad. They're great in that they do make it easier to get a group. They're bad in that some people get obsessed with them.
That being said, I've had an active account off-and-on (as money permitted) since the PS2 closed beta. I still have an active account now, even though I haven't had the time to play the last few months. The game did many things great, is fun, and has an (overall) excellent community.
SE isn't stupid, they're not MS, and they're not Blizzard. They aren't going to drop FFXI just to make people "upgrade" to FFXIV. The only way you'll see FFXI go away (or any MMO, for that matter) is when the income from subscriptions no longer results in a net profit after all the overhead (servers, content, salaries, etc.) As long as the numbers are in the black at the end of the year, they have no reason not to continue supporting it, as doing so would be like a store getting rid of all of their CRTs right when LCDs first came out; you don't get rid of the existing income flow just because the new thing is out, and even after the new thing took over, you don't drop the old until it starts to cost more money than it makes (and in the case of MMOs, some will even eat a loss if it keeps the community happy and putting money in elsewhere to make up for it.)
PS3 Running 24/7 since: 30 JAN 2008
EULA: By reading this post and associated disclaimer, you are consenting to agree with the opinions disclosed within.
I find this part of your post misguided. The grouping became excessively tedious, I don' tknow if you actually played FFXI before any of those changes but as someone who has leveled over 250 levels prior to that going live...
I've played since Day 1 of the US PC launch, so I've been playing a while, have learned the game along with everyone else back then, have seen the community develop and thrive to its peak, and have seen it start to deteriorate over time. I've also leveled many jobs as well, both the popular ones and the not-so-popular ones - on two characters, from scratch. So believe, me I know the ins-and-outs of the game. Grouping was *much* more prevalent in the first several years of FFXI - you could hardly find camping spots in many areas because so many parties where camped there. Only since the introduction of FoV, Campaign and Level Sync have I started to see grouping fall by the wayside to where, other than skillup parties, you can run through some of those areas and find them nearly empty.
I waited DAYS for parties sometimes... literally logged in, during peak hours, waited DAYS OF REAL LIFE TIME to find a party.
The part in yellow in your post is likely the problem. You waited for parties.
Please don't take this as condescending or from a "soap box" because I was in the same boat for a while, too - would wait for party invites and they would never come (though it never went for *days* when I did). Then I realized the wonders that taking some initiative could work and started putting them together myself.
Since then, I've waited, at most, maybe an hour for a party to come together. If it wasn't up and going in that time, then chances are there just weren't the right people available at the right levels. I've addressed this in another thread, but most of the time that people complain about slow party invites is because they were just sitting around waiting for the parties to come to them, instead of actively looking to put one together themself. Good friend of mine is almost *guaranteed* to have a party within 30 minutes of logging in, because she knows the areas to go to at her level range, knows good party setups for those areas, and puts them together based on what's available.
Ironically - but not surprisingly - I find parties much more difficult even to put together *since* they added all those new features, because people are now soloing/duoing or just doing Campaign Battles.
The things you say changed and perhaps ruined grouping forever are probably the reasons why people still play this game.
I don't necessarily think that's true. FFXI has maintained a consistent population for at least 5+ years before SE put them in. I doubt a ton of people would have up and left had they not. Also, they've added them gradually over the course of a year or so, so it's not that they just put them all in suddenly at once. People playing FFXI tend to enjoy it for a lot more than just the grouping aspect - there's *a lot* to do in the game. Also, there's the friend factor.
The social element will always be there, you can't solo missions, you can't solo the new content, you can't solo anything, you still need to group, that doesn't change the social aspect at all. It will always be the strongest grouping oriented game on the market. The things they added only helped it.
Grouping for missions or quests, with specific goals in mind and grouping for an xp party are not the same thing. In an xp party, you're all sorta hanging out doing your thing, everyone's doing their part and the conversation tends to just flow. In a mission or quest, everyone's typically a lot more focused on the task at hand, because not paying attention can cause a wipe. So, I'd agree that the group mechanics are still at play, but the social aspect is not the same in a Mission or major quest as it is in a normal leveling party.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I find this part of your post misguided. The grouping became excessively tedious, I don' tknow if you actually played FFXI before any of those changes but as someone who has leveled over 250 levels prior to that going live...
I waited DAYS for parties sometimes... literally logged in, during peak hours, waited DAYS OF REAL LIFE TIME to find a party.
The things you say changed and perhaps ruined grouping forever are probably the reasons why people still play this game.
The social element will always be there, you can't solo missions, you can't solo the new content, you can't solo anything, you still need to group, that doesn't change the social aspect at all. It will always be the strongest grouping oriented game on the market. The things they added only helped it.
Apparently you yourself might not have played, because you can solo quite a bit, you can solo missions, new content and so on. I still play FFXI and alot of content is soloable.
being a 75 DR 2 times and a 75 redmage 2 times i learned what it was (the diffrence) of waiting and being slammed with invites. My first character as a DRG pre-TOAU and pre the 2hr patch.....man did your @$$ WAIT....and wait ....and wait. Some jobs didnt even have the chance to build PTs becuase you either ended up with a crappy PT of misfits and newbies or the better players streight up would reject your invite (usualy just got a (no thanks) after they found out what job you were)
on the other hand RDM after dispel and eventually refresh i couldnt do jack without being anon, especialy when it came time for merit PTs.
so i guess i do kind of understand what he means but more often then not you could make a PT or try to do somthing....but the game is oldschool in its playerbase so it was always "il wait for a better DD then take that loldrg/lolpup"
Well i feel one of the games will die,there is not enough players to keep both games happy.
As far as EQ staying alive,i would disagree even EQ2 is very dead.
I do agree fully that the mechanics to make the wait for parties less painful,actually make partying worse.
The problem is time,people do not want grind ,but when the entire population is level 50 after 2 weeks ,it really leaves new players with an empty zone,this is the problem.There is NO way to fix this ,that i can think of.Grind is the best possible way to keep the low level zones populated for as long as possible.
What are you going to do with FFXI now that most of the players are just hanging out on level 75 players?Turn it into another WOW ,have people continue to grind instances?IMO that is not a game anymore,MMO's should have a time limit and then end it for good.
The ONLY way to give a game longevity is to utilize death,this way players MUST start over,witch in turn keeps low levels active and makes for a nice environment for new players that want to try the game out months/years later.
You can NEVER blame grouping for the faults of the players,since they just want to speed level past everyone else,of course there is going to be a lack of players to group with,until everyone is level 75,then you have a ton to group with but for what reason?Like i said you need a realistic life and death system in the game,while maybe adding incentives for rebirth,using hereditary means,idk only a suggestion,otherwise just let the games die after say 4 or 5 years.
Personally i find it pathetic that people can't let go of an online video game,play it for it's content,and that's it ,move on.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'll admit straight out that I'm pretty drunk while I'm posting this, and please keep this in mind.
I've been playing since the (obviously closed) PS2 beta. I still have an active account as I'm posting this.
I still level low level jobs. Why? Because I enjoy variety. I don't always want to tank. I don't always want to DD. I don't always want to heal. With all that I love about FFXI, the biggest thing I love is that the only thing I have to do if I want to change things up is hop into my MH and change jobs.
And that's the thing. Even amongst us really old school players, we've still got low levels jobs. We want to level them. So there will always be people at the low levels, at least among the hardcore. What you're seeing is the people that don't like WoW, but are still of the similar "if you aren't X class, Y race, wearing Z gear, you're a tool and a noob" mentality, and play FFXI. Low levels are easy (once you hit 13) if you hit the right places (K-tunnel on Caitsith, since I made a character on this server in 2003 or 2004) is almost always empty, even though it's the best and easiestl place to level from 12/13 to 18/19.
The trick to low levels is finding the likeminded REAL MMO players, not the WoWtards (and this doesn't apply to WoW, but all of the "modern" MMO people; they aren't about the game, they're about hitting the cap, stats, gear, and "I win, who cares if I exploited a bug; they left i in, so they must have wanted you to use it" (this has a lot of overlap with the Halo mentality.)
The problem with MMOs these days is the same with anything that goes mainstream: rather than focusing on quality, they cater to and coddle the lowest common denominator. It's about profits, not the actual product, improving anything, or DOING something.
PS3 Running 24/7 since: 30 JAN 2008
EULA: By reading this post and associated disclaimer, you are consenting to agree with the opinions disclosed within.
I'll admit straight out that I'm pretty drunk while I'm posting this, and please keep this in mind.
I've been playing since the (obviously closed) PS2 beta. I still have an active account as I'm posting this.
I still level low level jobs. Why? Because I enjoy variety. I don't always want to tank. I don't always want to DD. I don't always want to heal. With all that I love about FFXI, the biggest thing I love is that the only thing I have to do if I want to change things up is hop into my MH and change jobs.
And that's the thing. Even amongst us really old school players, we've still got low levels jobs. We want to level them. So there will always be people at the low levels, at least among the hardcore. What you're seeing is the people that don't like WoW, but are still of the similar "if you aren't X class, Y race, wearing Z gear, you're a tool and a noob" mentality, and play FFXI. Low levels are easy (once you hit 13) if you hit the right places (K-tunnel on Caitsith, since I made a character on this server in 2003 or 2004) is almost always empty, even though it's the best and easiestl place to level from 12/13 to 18/19.
The trick to low levels is finding the likeminded REAL MMO players, not the WoWtards (and this doesn't apply to WoW, but all of the "modern" MMO people; they aren't about the game, they're about hitting the cap, stats, gear, and "I win, who cares if I exploited a bug; they left i in, so they must have wanted you to use it" (this has a lot of overlap with the Halo mentality.)
The problem with MMOs these days is the same with anything that goes mainstream: rather than focusing on quality, they cater to and coddle the lowest common denominator. It's about profits, not the actual product, improving anything, or DOING something.
I totally agree with you. Since you can change jobs in FFXI, and most jobs need more than one sub leveled to be useful later on, there will always be player leveling. My linkshell I joined yesterday after starting said they could even Sync down to me if they need someone to help fill a party and such, so if you have a good linkshell combined with fellows (hench npc) you can always get a decent party.
Playing - EVE, Wurm
Retired - Final Fantasy XI, Anarchy Online, Mabinogi
Waiting - ArcheAge, Salem
I do hope something new will be brought into the new Final Fantasy. I like the idea of learning a weapon as a skill that comes with use and advancing in the same manner.
FFXI will exist as long as there is a player base. I highly doubt at this point SE would pull some shady shi* and force upgrade players. SE is a mega-corporation, profit margins and the bottom line are all that really matter to them. As someone stated previously "as long the game generates profit after overhead there is no reason to shut it down". My only concern is SE seems to be unwilling to invest the resources into full-blown expansions any longer and settles for "vertical" content "expansions" (the mini-expansions). Least WotG is still on going I guess.
And for those who believe that fov and campaign battle have "ruined" the game. I would have probably agreed with you 2 years ago when I was laid off , going part time to school and having all the time in the world. Now as a person who works full time , maintains a household and cares for an aged grandparent its a bit different lol. Its nice being able to solo or small group pages and campaign and still be productive in my limited playtime . I / we won't make near a properly set up xp party could chain so thats always there for the more hardcore base. We all pay our fees and not everyone has the luxury of responsibility free lives......
That bit in blue comes up far too often and it really gets under my skin, because it's such a blatantly and unabashedly selfish point-of-view.
"It was okay when *I* had the time to play... I don't have that kind of time now, so now it's not okay any more, and so the game needs to change to suit my schedule".
What about the many others who do still have all the time in the world to play? They don't count? Their subscription fees are worth less than those with more restrictive schedules, jobs, children, etc? I don't think so, but it's amazing how many seem to share that point of view.
That said, I have absolutely nothing against there being more content for smaller groups or soloing. However, when introduction of such content leads to the demise of grouping - which FFXI has always been about, no one can deny that - then there's a whole group of players who are being affected by it.
I think SE should implement more limited parameters with something like Level Sync... like a maximum number of levels below the actual job level. So, for example, if you're level 50, you can sync no lower than level 45 or something.
As far as Astral Burn parties go... I *really* hope SE does something to stop those, like they did with the whole /bard thing to power-level in Campaign Battles. I've had AB's thoroughly explained to me, and if that's not textbook abuse of game mechanics, then I don't know what is. So, yeah.. hopefully they do something about that as well.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That bit in blue comes up far too often and it really gets under my skin, because it's such a blatantly and unabashedly selfish point-of-view.
"It was okay when *I* had the time to play... I don't have that kind of time now, so now it's not okay any more, and so the game needs to change to suit my schedule".
What about the many others who do still have all the time in the world to play? They don't count? Their subscription fees are worth less than those with more restrictive schedules, jobs, children, etc? I don't think so, but it's amazing how many seem to share that point of view.
That said, I have absolutely nothing against there being more content for smaller groups or soloing. However, when introduction of such content leads to the demise of grouping - which FFXI has always been about, no one can deny that - then there's a whole group of players who are being affected by it.
I think SE should implement more limited parameters with something like Level Sync... like a maximum number of levels below the actual job level. So, for example, if you're level 50, you can sync no lower than level 45 or something.
As far as Astral Burn parties go... I *really* hope SE does something to stop those, like they did with the whole /bard thing to power-level in Campaign Battles. I've had AB's thoroughly explained to me, and if that's not textbook abuse of game mechanics, then I don't know what is. So, yeah.. hopefully they do something about that as well.
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1st let me say this I didn't mean to sound like I was going for blood there. Also I give you respect for being more objective rather than straight out attacking. But on the other side of the coin I can't tell you how many times in the past 8 months Ive had people say to me " why bother playing anymore", "you'll never get anywhere/anything with your schedule", "you shouldn't play unless you can dedicate time each and every day". While I could careless about comments , half the time I just consider the source , it bothers me when I come across people from former event shells of mine being the ones saying this. Maybe Ragnarok just has a lot of insecure, moody people on it I dunno. I do fov, MMM, campaign battle etc, I merit/xp party when time permits, I spend a lot of time in less popular zones harvesting, soloing, popping nm's , i'm sure mundane silly stuff to people that share a more hardcore mindset, thats fine. I may not be taking on big badass HNM's , doing content that requires 18-30 + people or sitting around waiting for something overcamped like argus to pop, but I am having fun and relaxing in my downtime. This is a game for me now , not a lifestyle. All different types of players have the right to play and enjoy their time playing bottom line.
As for the "problems" you have stated , how about this concept: Seperate servers. Before I get my head bitten off I'm talking playstyle , not regions, i'm not even gonna go into regions. But consider this:
Hardcore Servers: Give the hardcore players what they want. More difficulty? Roll back Cop to its original form, abolish level sync, campaign battle and MMM, revert adjusted xp amounts for ep-dc , hell revert all job ability/stat changes the hardcore bases deems "ruin the game". Add more pieces of gear on par with the difficulty of acquiring final stage relic weapons, make this gear unique to the hardcore server. Listen to these players and give them the experience they wish.
Regular Servers: Same as we have right now but possibly: Multiple MMM runs per day, additional Imperial ID tags per day, not sure if possible with game engine but instance dyna, remove the midnight JST timers on missions or just leave everything the same with the "casual" systems still in place.
RP Server: I know nothing of this as I don't participate in RP'ing , I would guess more lore and backstories.
Now I know i've violated the SE code of taboo by suggesting segregated servers , but with FFXI being so late in its lifecycle why not try something radical so to say.A bit more PvP would be good imo for the community, take some focus off of whose killed a particular mob the fastest or whose got the "leetest" gear of all conversations. Consider other mmo's have implemented a similar system sucessfully. Anyway it would be a cold day in hell before any of this even got considered , so don't flame me too much people. Just my 2 cents while bored at work.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops