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General: Skelton: Space, The Final Farce Here?
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
The lead up to Star Trek Online's Beta has been rife with controversy. This week, Jaime Skelton dives into exactly what happened.
When watching for hot topics in the community, I've noticed Cryptic is going to be a company laced with controversy. While their heels are still cooling from the heat from Champions Online's launch, now they are faced with troubles and worries about Star Trek Online, their newest title set to launch in February next year.
How is it that a game that hasn't even hit open beta has caused up such a stir? The fuss began with Champions Online, on a special offer launched in August for those who were interested in purchasing six month or lifetime subscriptions. The special offer included “guaranteed” closed beta access for Lifetime subscribers to Champions Online, and access (though not specifically stated as “guaranteed”) for six month subscribers. It's safe to assume that a large portion of the subscribers who took advantage of these offers wanted, and expected, to be able to participate in the beta testing of Star Trek Online.
Read it all here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
“Perpetual nearly screwed up the IP, until Cryptic saved it."
Oh God, the irony.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Cryptic and train wrecks seem to go hand in hand these days.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I haven't seen the whole beta fiasco as one of the biggest complaints against cryptic's deveopment of STO though it is obviously a problem now I think the line where you stated that both the company and the player can blame themselves holds true. I have no sympathy for anyone who fell for that line and likewise I think Cryptic brought any problems that arise from this on themselves but I think the game is still going to release I will still play it and I hope to enjoy it.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Dunno how you can say that.
They made CoH which even today is still one of the better MMO's out there.
Yeah Champions maybe wasn't so great but it is far from the likes of Vanguard, AoC and Warhammer at launch. I also questioned the wisdom of making a game that was essentually the same game as the last one they made but hell, it's not like there hasn't been an endless march of shit fantasy grinder clones over the last 10 years. I haven't actually tried Champions but I will once it's fleshed out a bit.
I am one of the lifetime subscribers... I bought it because i loved CoX and afcourse i wanted more... And with the added bonus to get into closed beta on one of my favorite tv shows, i just had to buy it.....
As it is now (Having made contact with Cryptic via email a few times), i think that with all the free access they hand out, they should have looked thru the paid ones first.... I do however understand, that paid testers might not provide the best testers, since anyone willing to buy into it, must be someone biased/fanataic about Star Trek.... In both good and bad!
As it is now, with the open beta getting closer, i do want a part of the lifetime subscription refunded, since i dont feel i get all that i paid for... and im not totally on the fences either... if Cryptic offered me 20+ dollars refund, i would be happy to wait for the open beta instead... just dont want to pay for something i dont get...
Cheers
Even though, i've watched every episode of every season 4 times, and seen all the movies. I saw most of the first time through with my family. We're all into the series. I won't be playing this STO from cryptic. Just all the bs they've done to people, has made me completely say there's no reason for me to spend my money on even trying this game. After everythign i've heard about them, i dont' think this game will even come close to the IP that's helped shape my childhood and my interest in technology.
"rife with controversy"? You only covered one issue for the whole article. Is there more?
I did not buy a lifetime or six month subscription for CO. However, I did receive an e-mail from Cryptic telling me if I did buy one of those subscriptions, I would get guaranteed access into STO. In fact it was the main selling point of the e-mail. If I had bought one of those subscriptions and didn't get into closed beta for STO before people getting free access I would be very upset.
I have nothing against Cryptic despite not buying CO, so this isn't the opinion of a someone that's just down on Cryptic, but Cryptic is in the wrong here. Whether intenionally or not they have misled their customers and they need to rectify this. Its both the right thing to do and important to their long term financial sucess.
Cryptic was giving refunds to at least up till 10-23-09 (when i asked for and was given a refund for a 6-month CO sub.)
I did not like the way they handled the STO closed beta invites, was pretty plain by that time that there was no way that i would be getting into the CB by a reasonable (to me) time.
No idea if they are still issuing refunds now, nor if i just got lucky and got a nice CS rep. They have never , to my knowledge, issued any statements one way or the other.
Was a rather large post on their (STO) forums about asking for refunds, around the time i submitted my ticket on CO support web site to get mine. I posted in a few different Sto forum posts as well, to let folks know that a refund was an option back when i got mine.
Anyhow, Cryptic and I are square, i did not get what i was expecting, and asked for a refund, and was given one, with no problem.
Just curious Jaime - can you explain this line ? "We'll shorten the argument for now and say that paying a company to test its product in advance is considered a dubious practice on the part of the buyer and the seller."
Exactly how is the BUYER committing some sort of shady practice? "Wow, I'm really excited about this game, and what I've seen on the website only fuels my fire! I'm so excited, I'd like to beta test it like I did those other 4 MMOs in the past! Wait, I can pay to get into the beta? COOL! Here's my money - cha-ching!"
Let me know how that sounds "shady" or underhanded in some way to you, mmkay?
This article is really suspicious. I'm reminded of the Shakespeare line: "Methinks he dost protest too loudly!" My cynical siren is sounding, telling me the author bought a lifetime sub to CO and is angry at not being in the Closed Beta yet.
Of all the controversy, THIS beta access is the one focused on? No mention of the other legitimate controversies?
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Wait until STO is released then the real controversy will start. Who managed to screw up a perfect StarTrek license. Prev or Cryptic? I wish someone like Bioware would have gotten the license for STO. Atleast then it would have stayed true to the license and not become a POTBS clone.
Players were offered entry into STO's Beta in exchange for their paying for a lifetime or six month subscription to Champions Online. This constitutes a Legally binding contract. Criptic is now subject to lawsuits for breach of contract. I hope this happens. This entire episode reeks of Fraud.
The Beta Players that notice bugs and other problems may keep their mouths shut to keep a Champions Online free ride. Its not the wisest of moves but its not the first time that money or trade has affected rational decisions.
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QFT
Ok... I have looked at all the advertisments and i non of the ones i can find did i find anything about "WHEN" said access should be granted. As long as you get in to the closed beta they have made good on their part, and as far asi know... The closed beta ain't over yet i am right.
The only one who has said anything about "first access" was a person, who in all fairnes was not in a position to make sutch claims. So show me were it says "WHEN" you were going to get in to the beta apart from that poor man and his forumpost.
Fraud... It's the new buzzword like, everything is fraud these days... BroadSword i say.
This have been a good conversation
I agree with the author that offering closed beta access to make a subscription to a different game seem more appealing is a shady practice at best, and I also feel that if you DO collect money for said beta, it is your obligation to ensure that all who are given access to this beta be given it before any free beta access is handed out to anyone who isn't on Cryptic's payroll. The problem, of course, is that Cryptic is not able to offer access to those most deserving (those who will, for no salary, test a buggy game and report said bugs to developers in a clear and concise manner). So be it. That was the choice you made when offering closed beta access to people willing to pay for it. The argument cannot be made that the close beta access was a "bonus," and therefore technically free, since both Cryptic and the average consumer know that if the offer were not present, the sales of these subscriptions would probably have dropped by a fair margin. I hope Cryptic does the right thing and starts voluntarily offering refunds or a sizeable discount on the retail box for STO to these subscribers who are not getting the full value of what they purchased.
And no, I am not a CO subscriber...
To that, I say: "Opinions are like a**holes -- everybody's got one."
I'm disappointed by not having received my beta invite (I bought a 6 month sub) but it's definitely not the most pressing issue in my life. I do agree, however, that Cryptic made the STO beta entry a key selling point and is ethically (though perhaps not legally) liable for not following through on what they offered.
I bought the 6 month sub and still haven't got in. Yet I do think that many posters are exaggerating the issue. However it is a bit lame of them to put PR hype (e.g. facebook contest) ahead of loyal customers. Imho if you decide not to continue with cryptic try to get a refund.
Ok... I have looked at all the advertisments and i non of the ones i can find did i find anything about "WHEN" said access should be granted. As long as you get in to the closed beta they have made good on their part, and as far asi know... The closed beta ain't over yet i am right.
The only one who has said anything about "first access" was a person, who in all fairnes was not in a position to make sutch claims. So show me were it says "WHEN" you were going to get in to the beta apart from that poor man and his forumpost.
Fraud... It's the new buzzword like, everything is fraud these days... BroadSword i say.
I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that this argument wouldn't hold up at all in the American courts. I believe that all contracts, offers, etc. have to abide by a "reasonable man" test. That is, when debating certain terms of a contract, the court follows the logic of what a reasonable person would assume. In this case, it's pretty clear cut that a reasonable person would assume that paying for entry would act as a sort of VIP pass in an Amusement Park; you get to skip the lines.
As far as your claim concerning that the person who made the announcement was in no position to do so, this is simply not the case. Daeke (sp?) was an employee of Cryptic Studios. The buck stops there. To the best of m knowledge, cryptic did not *immediately* retract his statement. This is somewhat alarming. This means Cryptic was not paying attention to what their own employees were saying or actually did plan for, at that point, immediate access for Lifetime/6 Month subbers.
Many of my CO guildmates are lifers or 6-monthers and they haven't even gotten a single message from Cryptic about the closed beta. Quite a shame. It is this total lack of conversation which I find not right. I mean, there can always some issues happen, but then you can at least send all those people a mail to inform them about the ongoings.
Same with STO preorder in Europe. In most European countires it doesn't even exist! Most German retailers I phoned had not even heard of STO, and even the big Amazon of UK and Germany haven't even LISTED STO, let alone a pre-order option. There is a TWO WEEK old thread on the STO forums when there will be a European preorder and there isn't a single answer for two weeks, no even, we are working on it or something. Only when I made a relatively aggresive thread, they closed it and at least answered it will be available "soon" (tm).
Cryptic really has no idea how to handle things, it showed in the entire process of Champions, and it shows again. No matter what you think about their games, their PR handling is a catastrophe. No ads, no interviews in any of the German print mags, nada. You expect almost 2 months before release they are a bit more active in getting out the word, but no. Either they are so arrogant they think they don't need to advertise their game for Europeans or they are actually just to dumb to realize. Whoever is in charge of PR and handling f the info at Cryptic needs to be FIRED!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Was there ever any question that something would go sideways with this offer?
Cryptic has never i my experience followed through on a promise without much back peddling and changing the rules midgame.
I love Star Trek but cannot in good confidance give Cryptic anymore of my money.
And yet another thread. Though you try to sound balanced most of the naysayers will take this as yet an opportunity to spill their guts. A decent amount of the replies will be full of lies and slander. You could and should have anticipated that.
When does MMORPG stop making Cryptic black on one and the same issue?
The closed beta hasn't ended yet. They didn't say how long people would be in before open beta. The original deal said nothing about immediate entry. And though I haven't read Daeke's message and don't know the timing, I do believe that at least most people didn't preorder based on that promise.
Anyone thinking that a company would mostly only fill their closed beta with a single source of people should think again.
Others complain about not enough media attention, yet these prices are exactly to keep attention on the game. I'm sure pre order deals will available timely world wide (and I wouldn't buy from most of the big shops anyway).
I would suggest a "reasonable man": seeing an offer 'if you buy this game, you will be able to participate in the closed beta test ' of STO" would reasonably expect if he accepted that offer, he would be able to participate in the closed beta. His acceptance of that offer forms a "contract" and if the company fails to admit him to the promised "closed beta" they are in violation of that contract. The only problem is the award of damages. Most likely he would only be able to recover the subscription fee. The companies real problem is if an ambitious prosecutor decided to indite them for fraud. While I haven seen the offer, the report suggests fraud was committed and the company would be convicted if brought to trial.
"Caveat emptor" Buyer beware, should be everyone's watchword.
Ah.. yes i can not argue with you on that point... My knowledge of the american legal system is rather fuzzy too.
But to my first point, and i am in no way saying that cryptic was particularly proffesional in the way they handeld them self but if they get all pre-orders in before the 11 of december i would still considering it being them fullfilling their part of the deal as a month of beta testing is still quite alot. And it seems your court acts abit different from ours, Here they look alot closer to what was writen in the advert and in this case would most likley rule that no were in the contract did it specify when said acess and that people should stop asuming things.
As to my second point, and here i can only draw upon my own time as a CSR but is it is not Bob from marketing saying so in black and white someone has most likley overstepped their boundaries. But to be honest the main thing that rubbed me the wrong way the fraud bit, as i said drawing on my personall experience there is not all that unlikley that poor Bob in marketing, by the time he got wind of the forum post in particular nearly choked on his BLT sub and Coffey... sommunication between different departments are not always that effectiv.
Still it is one hell of a do-do to make but i have a hard time seeing how it was done with malicious intent or even worse trying to prove that as an outsider.
This have been a good conversation