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Anyone else not care for a WAR40k MMO solely based on Space Marines??
M1sf1t
Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
I was just thinking about the WAR40K MMO that was in the works and I thought to myself why focus on Space Marines? Why limit your MMO and potential for exploring such an endless universe by focusing on Space Marines. Sure they are iconic to the IP but they are also very one dimensional characters when viewed against other charactes/iconic figures who are not space marines. While I know they are beloved by many a fan of GW and WAR40K however they are not the most interesting part of the WAR40K unvierse IMHO.
Though I will acknowledge that they do serve a purpose for GW. Space Marines are used as a way to draw in new fans by allowing them to easily attach themselves to easily understood characters whose focus is on one themes. What are those theme you ask? Well those themes are duty, honor and stoicism. All of these are the the lynch pin which make up the core personalities of most Space Marines iconic figures, or at least most of those who have been portrayed in WAR40K literature.
However Space Marines are only at the very surface of the entire WAR40K universe. I found this to be true when I started reading other varied source material and novels a long time ago. While Space Marines were what hooked me into the IP at first I find myself further drawn away and attracted more to other notable but less known iconic figures/organizations/races within the WAR40K IP.
For example Inquisitors and their goings about are just so damn interesting. In fact I find them to be so interesting that I say to myself, "How can anyone who has read the Eisenhorn or Raveanor series of Ominbus books not want to play as one in a MMO?". I mean just imagine infiltrating a hive world of about 20 billion people and sneaking around in a cloak and dagger fashion trying to hunt down a cult of Chaos followers with your band of trusted henchmen? Each henchmen bringing with them their own unique talents, personalities, and experiences to your elite team. Meanwhile you are secretly trying to capture the most vile of civilians while trying to go about it round about manner without blowing your cover if you can help it.
Hell, even books based on the lowly Imperial Guard such as the Gaunt's Ghost's series or the books based of Ciaphas Cain offer up such a plethora of great interesting possibilities to have a player focus on and play out in a MMO. Or even the Adapteus Mechanicus with its almost esoteric and obsessive affection toward technology and human modification would be a blast to explore. The recent books I've read "Horus Heresy: Mechanicum" and "Titanicus" have further reinforced my love for these slightly scary and weird human "techiphiles"
I still haven't even mention other organizations or groups such as:
The Ecclesiarchy, Officio Assassinorum, The Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Human mutants, rogue traders, the Imperial Navy, etc...
I guess to what I am trying to say is why just focus on Space Marines when in fact there are/is so much more to offer MMO players and such a huge and vast universe of fluff/lore to explore that is not space marine related. This is especially true when you are discussing the Imperium of Man and its many and vast organizations and sub groups/races. To me it would be a shame if the developers of the WAR40K were to not focus on other aspects of this great IP.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Comments
yes
Because Marines are basicly the Jedi of the 40k universe. If you make them Panzies like they are In the table top game they would suck and not hold up to lore.
A squad of Guardiens runs into a lone Marine... they die... Fun
A squad of Guards men runs into a lone Marine... they die... Fun
A squad of Ork Boys runs into a lone Marine... they die... Fun
A squad of Genstealers runs into a lone Marine... they die... Fun
Ect ect.
In the Lore a Lond tac squad would take on a Small army and win. Only other option is Not alow the Marines. Thats the path Id prefer, and If its all marines then I likely wont be playing the game.
Got screwed with Warhammer online aint gana do that again.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Great setting, not sure the marines are meant to be as poweful as the last poster said. I have played them in a variety of games and their power level has differed to suit gameplay.
Table vs Lore/fluff are to different beasts. Lore/fluff wise they are the top of the food chain in the universe and the reason being is that their main opponents (Orkz, Necrons, Nids, Dark Eldar, Eldar, rogue pyskers, deamons, etc...) would easily kill a average non-modified and non-combatant human being along with your average (I use the term loosely) Gaurdsmen and his entire platoon.
On the table top though they can be taken out easily enough and their stats do no justice to the reputation they have in fluff/lore.
The setting of the IP though I agree is awesome and there is so much more to it to explore then just space marines. Kind of like the Starwars reference mentioned by the other poster. Yes the Jedi are cool and "ub3r" but the Starwars universe has a lot more to it to explore then just Jedi/Sith. Sometimes iconic figures should be left as iconic and used to frame a story but not overwhelm it or the player.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I'd only play a WH40K MMO if it was an MMOFPS. Turn based whackamole combat is boring as hell, and doesn't fit with the setting at all.
The thought of running up to point blank range to a bunch of Orks (or whatever) then standing there for 3-4 minutes while watching the chat scroll ("You shoot your BOLTER and MISS!" "An ork boss shoots and hits for 1 damage!") and punching the 1-0 keys in order on the number row appeals to me not at all.
It's not going to be a MMOFPS. Well that is what I've read so far. It could change though since the game is supposedly due out at the end of 2012.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Well, I never really thought it would be. It's just that 1999-era turn based combat based on MUDs in WH40K is a travesty, and any gratification I'd get from the setting would be ruined by the fact that the gameplay would consist almost solely of immersion breaking events (such as the complete pointlessness of cover, aiming, etc.). I didn't ever realistically expect it to be an MMOFPS, it's just that an MMOFPS would be the perfect type of MMO for WH40K.
I'm sure I'll be shot down for voicing that opinion, since it's not the "popular" type of MMO gameplay, and precludes chatting and eating a sandwich while playing, but nonetheless, it would be completely awesome, IMO.
Space marine are not my fav race to choose in warhamemr 40k I prefer orks :P
If they do the basic races that are in dawn of war is enough for me (orcs,space marines,chaos and eldar) then maybe add more in expansions would be still good imo.
Is there a link indicating that it will only have space marines?
wait, what? when did it become Space Marine only?
Screw that, i had an awesome view that it was going to be 5+ planets that 5+ factions (or species) battle for.
If its Marine only then that MMO has officially been ditched by me
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I definitely plan on trying the 40k MMO, whether or not SM is the only playable faction. SM aren't my favorite faction of the universe, but the universe as a whole is fun enough that it just doesn't matter.
Mostly I prefer my 40k factions to be one-dimensional in other ways (such as: to git' into da thickuvit, or to enslave and torture, or for the false promise of power, or for the greater good.) But seriously, most of the factions seem one-dimensional in a charming way - on the surface their motivations are very easily summed up, but they often tend to have very interesting backstory explaining exactly why they're one-dimensional in their particular way.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I have been waiting for a real warhammer 40k game for years. Yes we had dawn of war series and that god aweful firewarrior game. Not to mention a few turn based ones, however there is so much more to this universe. Warhammer 40k probably more played then any other gw property is a living breathing beast. Each race and sub armies has such unique back story and fluff that people making content are gonna have a wealth of idea building literature to fall back on.
Now as to a mmofps. NO ONE WILL PLAY THAT...Look at tabula rasa and the ill fated Hellgate london. While its fun to kill with friends people want more then a simple hack and slash. Not to mention the mechanics on those two games were just about god aweful. I mean seriously I spent the whole time straffing left and right and just nuking everything. rather dull and boring to me.
Now to the meat and grizzle. In the orignal post the author spoke of mostly human races...YAWN. What about chaos, orcs, eldar, tau, nids, necrons, dark eldar. I mean just on the chaos alone you could damn near half a whole faction. Here is what I see happening. Most mmos work on a two faction system. THIS IS BORING AND DULL!!!! So I suggested this in a litle chat I had with some people. 3 factions. Forces of order. Forces of Destructions, and Forces of the greater good.
SM, Gaurd and Inquistion for order. Chaos, Nids, Orkz on the destuction, Tau eldar and necron on the greater good. Now yes I know necron greater good? Ok first off necrons role in this game saddly will be almost nothing. I mean come on they have no distinction. What I think you will see is a Lord as a cc mage. Parriahs as a hunter class, and Immortals as a Hitter class. Now even though they want to take feed the whole universe to a ctan they are the mortal foes of chaos. Not to mention eldar but well have to work around this. However know most designers they will only do a 6 race system, which really sucks but you probably wont see the following as playable races....gaurd(yeah cause a flashlight is so effective when you only have one.) Nids. (Ummm they are all melee dps not to mention GEAR IS IMPOSSIBLE.) Necron(They are the most hated army and have been beaten by the nerf bat on the table top so many times its just not funny, and well they have no individuallity and really the only gear they could get is for a lord.
So now that we have a 3 faction system you can now look into what your classes can be for each faction.
SM...Tank. TERMIES come on you knew it would happen.
SM...Healer Apothocaries. Well duh
Sm...Caster dps. Librarians. Makes sense.
Sm...cc dps. Assualt veteran. Also makes some sense here.
Sm...Buffer. All should have some hail empeor bs to buff but why not a techmarine. or Standard barer.
Inquisition.
Tank= GREY KNIGHTS....Yeah well its either that or a leman russ.
healer= Not sure on this one may have to invent one...Call it priest of terra
caster= Psychers greater and more powerful spell set then sm but very very weak
cc dps. Either assasin or Sisters or Battle
Buffer. LOL can we say SERVITOR or chaplins
Chaos
Tank. Champion of chaos.
Healer. PLAGUE MARINE...Hey why not they could spread a healing plague..think of the aoe healing.
caster. MAGUS or SORC what ever you want to call it.
cc dps...Well now Im thinking either demonets or perhaps those overly mutated elites whose name escapes me atm
Buffer...This one also unsure but would have to say something like a chaos chaplin
Orz
Tank NOBB its big and doesnt know when to die.
healer. Ummm something squigy
caster Werd boys
CC dps CHOPPA BOYZ
buffer again something squiggy maybe a squig hearder..
Any ways you get the idea and yes im stealling alot of this from the fantasy one. But hey that one is working pretty good. Now if you combine some aspects of that game with some of the rumors i have been hearing about you will get some pretty interesting game play and design.....
Oh and to the noob who will post about the no gear for nids....Biomutations dont count unless you eat that which you kill. Same issue the Kroot have.
The problem with this "faction" crap I've read in a few of these replies is this.
In Warhammer...all Warhammer
Each race is a faction onto itself. They rarely band together and often fight one another. This lumping races into faction groups and assigning them roles ruins it from the get go.
Stop with the WoW style faction thinking, it already wrecked one Warhammer IP.
I don't think that Space Marines will be the only playable faction.
I haven't been keeping up with the game much, but that just sounds daft to me.
Space Marines might be the main focus of the "Imperium" faction, but I'm 95% sure that we will be able to play as Orks, Eldar and Chaos too.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Actually your wrong on the wow aspect. GW has done this on many occasions. 13th black crusade seems to come to mind. When you have a story driven event or game then banding together into greater factions makes sense. Though I will agree each of the armies should be its own faction. You will find that it would be damn near impossible to get a decent raid going just out of your own faction.
It's been in the works a couple of times, I think it's safe to say we'll never see it. I'll speculate more on it if it's in BETA sometime. That being said...
"Brother marines, one squad shall be sufficient."
P.S. If they were smart they would make Astartes NPCs and base the game on Rogue Traders. You could have power armour still, and other even crazier shit.
Actually your wrong on the wow aspect. GW has done this on many occasions. 13th black crusade seems to come to mind. When you have a story driven event or game then banding together into greater factions makes sense. Though I will agree each of the armies should be its own faction. You will find that it would be damn near impossible to get a decent raid going just out of your own faction.
Sure I understand the population balance issue that would show its ugly head.
That being said, I would prefer to see 2 or 3 core races in the game that are fully fleshed out and self contained IF it's going to be PvP centric.
IMHO, our culture of MMO nomads in the western market make any kind of long term population based gameplay near impossible. No sooner does a game launch and within 60 - 90 days the servers are barren wastelands.
Within 12 months most games are at least on their first server consolidation no matter how hard they try to save the game. I guess the lesson is don't launch a unfinished game but at the same time, MMOers need to realize that it takes upwards of a year for a game to flesh out and they are always a work in progress.
I thought THQ was working on a 40K MMO?
www.gamespot.com/news/6166560.html
Nope virgil games is making it. They have another game they are launching this year and in 2011 yes it says 2012 but thats fiscal 2012 which is around october if memory servers......
Now you said something about most mmos launch and then 90 days server consolidation. Not all server consolidations are due to lack of players. Take war. They over planned just incase so you wouldnt have that you are number 1 million in que.. Once they figured which servers had not enough people they first offered you a nice xp boost to switch then when that didnt work you got booted over. Now what happened to all that server power they had. They reworked the setup durring one of the infamous 18 hr shut downs to create a network of servers to minimize zone lag and capital lag.
However you are right on the appeal factor. Most games seem cool but then you realize that it just isnt what you want. Mostly cause we all played wow and got spoiled. Now here is why I dont think this will be an issue for 40k. One you will see most of the people from the fantasy game come over cause they have been talking about it since day one of annoucement of war. Next 40k has about a good loyal 3 million player fan base just for the table top version. Now figure the average table top gamer will spend roughly 300 to 10000 on there game its safe to say that 40k will have a good steady paying client base. Not to mention The gamers those gamers will drag in....I predict that come launch and when screenshot and videos come out you will see at least 3 to 6 million purchases with about 4 million remaining in 6 months time.....
Now as for rogue trader wow there is a flashback....Ahhh when weapon str went over 100 and not up to 10...Those were the days. And yes that aspect would work on non mmo rpg. For mmo you must have race diversity.
Hmmm well I was close
"Vigil Games is a division of THQ" www.vigilgames.com/
Yeah I understand that however... Warhammer fantasy has almost an equal amount of loyal mini players and it did squat for the MMO. Whatever the server issues were (and I played War for about 6 months) it didn't stop the bleed even after they "fixed" it. In fact they just consolidated 2 more servers this last week leaving them at 4(?) live servers. It was just the initial amount of servers that damaged the game but the game being far to derivative of everything else out there. I mean why play War when you can just play WoW? it's basically almost the same game but with a few a class twist and less of everything else.
Yeah dunno on the race thing, IMHO you are heading down the Warhammer fantasy path if you get into the faction thing. Orcs sided with Necrons or Dark Elves ext...sorry that would kill it. From a lore standpoint the Orcs have just as much reason to kill Humans as Dark Elves or Chaos Marines. Necrons want to purge the universe of the cancer of life ext....Just like the fantasy setting, chaos warriors happily slaughtered Orcs as well as Empire, Bretionians regularly skirmish with Wood Elves, Dwarves and High Elves have no real love for one another and will fight over relics. The Undead factions just want to over run everyone, Orcs can just as easily war with each other as outsiders. Empire and Dwarves are about as close to an alliance as you will find in Warhammer and that carried over to the 40k setting (until they dropped squats from 40k) Halflings and Orges were really nothing more then Empire subraces.
The issue is each race has almost 30 years of written lore behind them and if you alter it, you basically are throwing away the foundation of the setting. We saw what happened with Warhammer AoR...lesson learned.
A Rogue trader setting would be completely different however.
I think it'd be smart on THQ's part if they set up a DAoC-esque system, with three factions fighting eachother in an all out war.
warhammer 40k MMO is in hands of vigil studios (which is making Darksiders, looks fun imho ^^)
a dutch site asked some things to the company and they stated itll give a new description to the world battlegrounds, based on big fights, your not forced to play solo/groups, your choice, and they will use different races (SO NOT SPACEMARINE ONLY).
they also stated the game won't only focus on combat... not much info but at least some
here's proof, its in dutch tho'
link: http://www.gamez.nl/pc/nieuws/1376/eerst-details-warhammer-40k-mmo-bekend.html
i dont like the idea of a 40k MMO at all, it would ruin the franchise. people always seem to think the next step up in the "evolution" of a game or franchise is to make an MMO, but they all suck and die, or at least are not nearly as successful as people think they are.
True. The problem is just because you can make a great RPG, RTS, or FPS, does not mean you can make a great MMORPG. It's just a different animal.
WoW got it right, because they made a great MMORPG, not because they made great RTS games. The franchise and branding helped them with marketing, but the success came from a solid MMORPG design, which most releases lack.
I'm not saying WoW is the only successful MMORPG design there can be, but we've certainly seen a lot of flawed designs, like WAR, TAbula Rasa, and VAnguard, and Age of Conan to name a few.
you have to concentrate on the game design, and specifically make an MMORPG that works. All the brand name recognition in the world won't help you do that, and all the FPS, RPG, or RTS experience in the world won't help either.
With that said,
Bravery is stronger than Adamantium. One is the stuff of the soul-forges, the other an illusion of safety created by fools. Adamantium walls cannot keep us out! We have the courage of the Emperor! And in the Emperor's name... ATTACK!! ATTACK!! NO PRISONERS!!
m1sf1t, is your post a troll? You ramble about how a 40k MMO would be unplayable if it's all space marines... is this pure speculation or have you read anything anywhere to support your ramble?
I doubt Vigil will butcher this. Albeit they are a young studio with only 1 soon-to-be released game under their belt, if you look at the newsfeeds between them and THQ, and the quality and polish they've put into Darksiders, not to mention the abundance of experience in the MMO genre now that it is a decade old... I doubt they'll strike out on their sophomore release.
While it would be fun to start speculating, Vigil hasn't made much public statement on content for their 40k license. I'd wager that part of 'game development' (speculating) is still a couple months down the road for us eager ones.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
The big problem with the WH40K lore is that it was screwed from the start.
I read the original stuff back in the late '80s? Early '90s...
And the guy(s) who wrote it were idiots. "1000 Chapters of 1000 marines..."? THAT should never have got past the editor.
They limited themselves from the start and wrote the lore badly. They could not seem to decide how powerful the Marines were supposed to be and they completely messed up the scale of the world in relation to how the marines fitted in.
The marines themselves are close to what R Heinlein was describing in "Starship Troopers" (the big ugly gorilla) but the amount of power they wield (and tactics they employ) always seemed wrong.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.