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No true FF classes?
McAvoy
Member Posts: 85
I just looked at the FFXIV site and all the classes listed so far are very lame compared to FFXI and the rest of the FF series. Have any others been announced or leaked unofficially?
I don't see FFXIV doing very well without Summoner, Dragoon, Samurai, Puppet Master, Corsair, ect...
I'm kinda worried that it is going to fail, they already made Galka look weird and Taru Taru look like a teletubbies, and it's starting to seem like there's only going to be crystal teleports for travel instead of using mounts to travel around the world.
(It won't feel like a world if you don't have the option to walk/mount up and go wherever you want)
Inherited Will, the Destiny of the Age, and the Dreams of its People. These are things that will not be stopped. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things will never cease to be! - Gol D. Roger
Comments
First off let me say the obvious ... FFXIV is not FFXI so there will be differences.
Also the jobs you pointed out were all introduced after the game was initially shipped. SMN was a job added to the Core game over a year later. DRG and SAM came with The Rise of Zilart. PUP and COR were, first off, never in any other FF game (Gambler yes ... pirate or corsair no) and they were introduced in Treasures of Aht Urgah. The core game only had WAR, MNK, THF, RDM, WHM, and BLM (because they were the 6 jobs from the original Final Fantasy) and the game ran very well back then.
Not everything has been released but you can easily see the similarities between jobs already. Archer > Ranger; Lancer > Dragoon (there is your Dragoon btw); Gladiator > Paladin; Pugilist > Monk. We know there is a Maruader but there is no info on it yet ... but that is a Warrior. We know there is a Thaumaturge which will be a Black Mage character and a Botonist which I am guessing is going to be Beastmaster-like (I'd say Geomancer, but Geomancer uses bells and this Botonist has an axe). Do I think they should just name them the same as FFXI, yes, but you are going to see similarities between the games.
I have not heard anything about travel other than chickens won't be used as chickens in FFXI are. What does that mean? It could mean you can't mount them (gawd that sounds gross actually ...) you can't use them as steeds ... I doubt that since chocobos have been steeds since they were introduced to the series. Maybe they aren't domesticated and are all wild like they are in FFVII and you have to capture to use them? Don't know for sure no reason to speculate and be wrong though. I also severely doubt that Square Enix of all developers would not have the ability to walk from point A to point B ... that would go against every single president the company has ever set forth.
I'm hoping for giant rabbit mounts, or perhaps even giant jackalopes! (Btw, the devs have explicitly stated it will be a seemless world when moving between zones).
So you will gradually move from a beach to a planes to a swamp? Very cool ... I never really understood how you could have could have sand up your ass for hours while partying in the dunes then you zone to the highlands and all you see in s grass as far as the eye can see with no sand ... not even a hose system so you can wash the sand off your feet like you get at the ocean.
I'm not sure what they were getting at exactly but what I think they meant was where are all these strange names coming from? I mean if this is supposed to be a FF why are we calling classes by these weird names. Why doesn't SE use traditional FF names. Like instead of Pugilist use Black Belt or Monk, or dragoon instead of lancer. I think they are changing the names just for the sake of change and to make it seem like it's not ffxi all over again. That's not necessary though because every Final Fantasy game before has re-used the same name and no one had a problem with it. Why do they think all of a sudden we will?
SE said they purpusly changed the names, they dont want people (especially form FFXI) seeing those classes and saying "Oh your a blackmage...well you sit and back and nuke and play your job this way" is was more of a way to make the class/job system feel fresh, and honestly it dont matter if they are not the same, it will be great either way.
with the whole seemless thing its not going to be fully seemeless. its basicly going to be very LARGE chunks (they said equivelent to 1 full region in FFXI) so its basicly like saying you can go from San'doria >Ronfare > the Plataues > to the dunes without loading, but to go to say like a snow field, its going to load. Honestly it makes scense...it would be hard to go from say a jungle to a snow feild natrualy...works for me though.
They've outright said and also given several indications they are moving away from a Tank-Healer-DPS system, so changing the names also serves to help people to not thinking in terms of FFXI's combat mechanics.
They've outright said and also given several indications they are moving away from a Tank-Healer-DPS system, so changing the names also serves to help people to not thinking in terms of FFXI's combat mechanics.
honestly it will be intresting to see if they can pull it off, though 99% of people will still try and have the classic tandk >heal>DPS setups....it cant be helped...but it would be amazing to see groups of all diffrent sizes, with all kinds of weird varients, getting stuff done effeciently and having a good time...this seems like a great game for small groups friends to go to town on and not have to worry "oh il play the healer and you be the tank" because more often then not (atleast in my RL friends group) we never end up with one of those (healer usualy)
They've outright said and also given several indications they are moving away from a Tank-Healer-DPS system, so changing the names also serves to help people to not thinking in terms of FFXI's combat mechanics.
honestly it will be intresting to see if they can pull it off, though 99% of people will still try and have the classic tandk >heal>DPS setups....it cant be helped...but it would be amazing to see groups of all diffrent sizes, with all kinds of weird varients, getting stuff done effeciently and having a good time...this seems like a great game for small groups friends to go to town on and not have to worry "oh il play the healer and you be the tank" because more often then not (atleast in my RL friends group) we never end up with one of those (healer usualy)
If a proposed tank can't take the damage of all mobs attacking them, then tanking won't work. If they have no taunt abilities or other method to make everything attack them, then tanking won't work. If healers don't have the mana or ability to constantly heal that tremendous amount of damage, and in fact there are no specialized healers but rather people with SOME healing ability, then healing won't work for tanks. Guild Wars, Eve Online, many other games and real life for that matter can't support a tank-dps-healer system at all. It's quite possible that FFXIV will be that way.
Edit: I'd note that all Final Fantasy games except 11 didn't have a tank-healer-dps system. It had guys that could take more damage, but even if someone in the front row could taunt all enemies and make them attack him, he wouldn't want to do that (healers wouldn't be able to keep up with the damage if it was all done to one person like that). Of course, they didn't have taunt abilities because such things would have been pretty useless 95% of the time.
Right now we only know for sure that they want combat to be about positioning and tactics. They want it to move slower than current systems to allow time for tactical thought. They also want to move away from the Holy Trinity system. They've also made some talk about people making barriers and such. Exactly what the combat system is going to be like though, we don't have a lot of detail on.
I think all classes will be more hybrid and the players will have many choices when equiping skills which will define their role. For example: warrior that wants to dual weild will equip that skill and be able to hit fast but less damage, or they will be able to weild 2H weapon and have a berserk ability, of coarse this is my speculation. Also all skills will depend on the weapon and gear and that makes it even more intersting.
I liked ffxi and the way the job/subjob was but I got a good feeling about ffxiv system and I think this genre needs a change after all, I'm sick of companies copy/paste from other games.
The whole everyone is a hybrid would be fun, but that might ultimatly lead to certain things later in the games life. mainly the whole "this is the best build" and "you need to have this and this and this to do endgame" senario. As long as the hybrid thing doesnt work to where everyone just wants to solo and alot of content still urges you to group im fine with it, i know way to many people that will freak the hell out if this turns out ot be another EZ button solo fest.
Hands down, the best part of FFXI was the multiple classes & being able to switch to any class. It lets you have a single character, not all these dumb alts.
Hands down, the best part of FFXI was the multiple classes & being able to switch to any class. It lets you have a single character, not all these dumb alts.
Alts have a purpose, especially in terms of replay. Forcing you to reroll a new character in order to experience a different class is good business. Fortunately, Square-Enix seems to be more interested in versitile gameplay. If your game is unique, fun and can offer a multitude of things to do both solo and group, then you're bound to have success.
I personally prefer my race selection to be more aesthetic than utilitarian and I hope SE makes all races able to perform each Disciple equally. Having slight advantages is fine as long as they are not game defining.
Currently, this is about the only mmo on my watchlist. SE has a great deal of experience, a lot of resources and a proven track record. I really hope they can succeed in this endeavor and truly break us from the holy trinity.
Hands down, the best part of FFXI was the multiple classes & being able to switch to any class. It lets you have a single character, not all these dumb alts.
Alts have a purpose, especially in terms of replay. Forcing you to reroll a new character in order to experience a different class is good business. Fortunately, Square-Enix seems to be more interested in versitile gameplay. If your game is unique, fun and can offer a multitude of things to do both solo and group, then you're bound to have success.
I personally prefer my race selection to be more aesthetic than utilitarian and I hope SE makes all races able to perform each Disciple equally. Having slight advantages is fine as long as they are not game defining.
Currently, this is about the only mmo on my watchlist. SE has a great deal of experience, a lot of resources and a proven track record. I really hope they can succeed in this endeavor and truly break us from the holy trinity.
i dont know if i can find the quote but they did say exactly that "races wthis time around will have a much smaller effect on how the player wants to play". they said they want people to pick more for the look (they also want people who played FFXI to feel "at home" by recreating their character and it not effecting how they play. if you look through some of the gamescon interveiws you should find it, by they did say they want it to be more of an aesthetic then to define what class you pick.
There was gear to mitigate the differences between the races pretty well in FFXI. The only real place you would see it is with a Taru vs Galka Paladin. Taru Paladins had virtually limitless hate generating ability from their enormous mana pool (when you did the math, they had 2x the health of a Galka), but since Galka (or really anybody but Taru) had the natural Vitality and high HP pool, they could take the big hits that would instantly kill any Taru. But really, Paladin was basically the only place you saw any measurable difference at all.
Go play FFXI for a month and see why that sentence doesn't make sense anymore. I can experience different classes with my original character, I don't have to go make new ones every time I want to play a different class. The ONLY reasons people have alts in FFXI are thus:A) Storage Space - Though there are a lot of ways to get this now without having the alts, it still is nice since you need lower level gear for BCNMs and such. (Should be fixed by allowing the NPC storage of gear sets and special items, giving more space, allowing access to the AH from your mog house and # of items able to be sold upped to 20 - but this isn't much of an issue anymore in FFXI cause a lot of these have been implemented)
C) Crafting - You can only have 40 points over rank 60 of any crafting job. So if you wanted a rank 100 Alchemist, and a rank 100 woodworker, you're going to have to make an Alt. (should be fixed by making crafting work the same as classes. I can take off my alchemy hat, and put alchemy back to rank 60, then I can level up the next one. But always keep the total points used as 40 over rank 60)
D) Play under a different name - If you sling yours through the mud too much or just want some animinity. Although, you could also just switch servers if you care to be technical about it. (Should be fixed by allowing server moves - which they do).
E) Play as a different race - If you just want to see the difference between the races.
F) Roleplay - You want to RP a different character. << This should be the only real reason to ever make an alt. The rest should be stamped out with system design. - But seriously, I've never met a single person RPing in any MMO I've EVER played. Believe me, if I found a single person willing, I'd be busting out my thee's and thou's with the best of them. There's just nobody to play with (and the OOCers would ruin the mood anyway if there was)
Now the only reason you'd ever need to have an alt, is if you actually want another character, either to RP with or just to experience a new race. Utility alts are dumb, and the result of restrictive system design.
Hmm, if I was a designer, I would have spent many, many days figuring out a way to have races change the FEEL of a class and a bit how it played without affecting the balance of the class. It would be cool if one could figure out a way to do that.
Hmm, if I was a designer, I would have spent many, many days figuring out a way to have races change the FEEL of a class and a bit how it played without affecting the balance of the class. It would be cool if one could figure out a way to do that.
well more often then not people want to play the race they think is "cool" or fit how they want their avatar to look, but when not being able to effectively play a class they like becuase certain status of that perticular race puts them behind...they dont like it. honestly this is a good thing, people will play a race becuase they like the look/hackground story of them over "this race has the least MP".
Hmm, if I was a designer, I would have spent many, many days figuring out a way to have races change the FEEL of a class and a bit how it played without affecting the balance of the class. It would be cool if one could figure out a way to do that.
well more often then not people want to play the race they think is "cool" or fit how they want their avatar to look, but when not being able to effectively play a class they like becuase certain status of that perticular race puts them behind...they dont like it. honestly this is a good thing, people will play a race becuase they like the look/hackground story of them over "this race has the least MP".
Right, I agree 100%. What would be nice is finding ways to make a race change the feel of different classes but still be neutral to them. Taru Gladiators and Galka Gladiators would be just as effective, but still a different play experience (beyond just the visuals and other cosmetic things). The trick would be finding a way to do that, but it would be worth spending time to figure out.
Yes the classes are IMO kind of weak.I believe it is because of the new design FFXIV will have,many of the FUN or great abilities and spells will be over powering in this new system,so expect a MUCH more casual weaker game.
So far i see the sub class being ruined as well,because you no longer have to make decisions or choice,you will have every class available at all times and every ability in the game accessible to you at all times,just thinking of that makes me cringe.Honestly,the sub class might as well be removed,it has lost it's function with this new design.I really cannot see how things like STUN or Gravity or any of the powerful spells abilities can be used now,knowing that every single player will have access to them.
How could the game repeat something like Sidewinder?6x Sidewinder starting a fight lol.There is so many FFXI abilities and spells that cannot be used in this game.How about 2 hour abilities?Imagine if they brought back the Corsair 2 hr reset?There is a LOT of stuff that cannot be brought back because of this weak design.They are going to totally ruin classes as we know it.
What i figure will happen is two things...they will allow access to those abilities/spells via end game or through some ridiculous 30 man guild raid[ guildleves].
Another fact is that because of all players having access to everything,TIMERS are no longer a factor or a MUCH less factor,because cycling through 6 players,you won't have to worry about a timer.Example STUN or Ancient magic spells.
This game may go down as the most controversial design ever,or Square's brilliance may shine through again
.
I wonder if they fail on this game design,if FFXI could rebound,because i am sure once FFXIV is released FFXI will be near dead.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yes the classes are IMO kind of weak.I believe it is because of the new design FFXIV will have,many of the FUN or great abilities and spells will be over powering in this new system,so expect a MUCH more casual weaker game.
So far i see the sub class being ruined as well,because you no longer have to make decisions or choice,you will have every class available at all times and every ability in the game accessible to you at all times,just thinking of that makes me cringe.Honestly,the sub class might as well be removed,it has lost it's function with this new design.I really cannot see how things like STUN or Gravity or any of the powerful spells abilities can be used now,knowing that every single player will have access to them.
How could the game repeat something like Sidewinder?6x Sidewinder starting a fight lol.There is so many FFXI abilities and spells that cannot be used in this game.How about 2 hour abilities?Imagine if they brought back the Corsair 2 hr reset?There is a LOT of stuff that cannot be brought back because of this weak design.They are going to totally ruin classes as we know it.
What i figure will happen is two things...they will allow access to those abilities/spells via end game or through some ridiculous 30 man guild raid[ guildleves].
Another fact is that because of all players having access to everything,TIMERS are no longer a factor or a MUCH less factor,because cycling through 6 players,you won't have to worry about a timer.Example STUN or Ancient magic spells.
This game may go down as the most controversial design ever,or Square's brilliance may shine through again
.
I wonder if they fail on this game design,if FFXI could rebound,because i am sure once FFXIV is released FFXI will be near dead.
Errrm you've completely misunderstood the skill system this game features...
You do not have access to all skills all the time, you ONLY have access to whatever skills are associated with your equipment. If you want to use gladiator skills you'd better have a one handed sword equipped, for example.
We don't know much about the subbing system yet but most people are speculating that it will function similar to FF:tactics and allow you to bring over a limited assortment of skills of your choice from the other 'classes'. Essentially you only ever have access to your primary class based on weapon equipped, and a handful of skills you've selected from other classes. The main difference in this to FFXI's sub-job system would be that you can focus on one thing for your sub (healing for example) or you can take skills from several different classes to make a more flexible character. But NO ONE will ever have access to ALL skills.
This point actually applies to the OP as well... the traditional FF jobs ARE in there, but you become one by combining the skills of other classes in certain combinations. The devs have already explained the job title system... you get given a title based on your skill combination that indicates to other players specifically what sort of combo you are using. A paladin would be a gladiator with healing magic, a dark knight would be a marauder with black magic, a red mage would be one a gladiator combined with a mix of black and white magic, etc. I'd also speculate that certain combinations may actually grant access to even more abilities.
Over on the the ffxivcore forums there's theories that advanced jobs (like summoner, puppetmaster, dancer, etc) will be unlocked through having certain combinations of other skills available to you.
I really don't understand how everyone seems to keep misinterpreting the skills system, the devs have already explained the basics of it in sufficient detail.
All of those jobs were implemented 2+ years after the game was released....
XI had only Warrior, Thief, Monk, BLM, WHM and RDM at the start too. Talk about lame.
All of those jobs were implemented 2+ years after the game was released....
XI had only Warrior, Thief, Monk, BLM, WHM and RDM at the start too. Talk about lame.
I just hope they add a pet class in FFXIV >.>
Playing - EVE, Wurm
Retired - Final Fantasy XI, Anarchy Online, Mabinogi
Waiting - ArcheAge, Salem
Alts have a purpose, especially in terms of replay. Forcing you to reroll a new character in order to experience a different class is good business. Fortunately, Square-Enix seems to be more interested in versitile gameplay. If your game is unique, fun and can offer a multitude of things to do both solo and group, then you're bound to have success.
I personally prefer my race selection to be more aesthetic than utilitarian and I hope SE makes all races able to perform each Disciple equally. Having slight advantages is fine as long as they are not game defining.
I strongly disagree on both of these topics.
First order of business is alts. Your forced to level an alt because 99.9% of MMO's barely have enough quest to level 1 character so switching classes would require the mmo devs to have endless quests. Its just an easy way out of a problem by locking 1 class per character. Even when you have to re-roll an alt your still going to be doing mostly the same quests anyways. FFXI got by the quest problem because all of the exp came from fighting. I had no problem experiancing a new class in ffxi, I had 3 level 75's and a ton of classes at 37.
Now to the races, first and fore most I know that the devs have already said that the races are indeed going to be more for aestheics than stats, however It makes sense that a big hulking galka should be more physically endowed than a little ole frail taru, Or that an agil mithra could dance circles around that big hulking galka. Its just more emerssive. Races are not equal, other wise whats the purpose of a race? might as well just be all humans.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
All of those jobs were implemented 2+ years after the game was released....
XI had only Warrior, Thief, Monk, BLM, WHM and RDM at the start too. Talk about lame.
I just hope they add a pet class in FFXIV >.>
Sure, they will. XI had BST right from the start but like other pet jobs it's kinda weak. I hope that since the devs have a little more time to think of how the pet functions as compared to other classes now it'll be implemented much better.
I'm Hume on FFXI, absolutely hated Mithra on FFXI but I'm really liking how the Miqo'te look in FFXIV (probably just the better graphics). Most likely going to choose a Miqo'te.
A lot of people don't care about "realism" or a character's body appearance "making sense" with regard to their statistics. A level 20 Tarutaru Warrior can dish out a lot more damage than a level 5 Galka Warrior, even though the Tarutaru is still much smaller than the Galka. In Final Fantasy in general, tiny characters can utterly defeat huge ones. More to the point, I suspect most players don't feel more "emerssed" (???) in the game simply because their Galka White Mage has less mana but can take more of a beating.
The purpose of races is to add more variety and diversity to the game aesthetics, in my opinion, rather than having only humans everywhere for example. In your opinion it's so that the gameplay mechanics will be a bit different between each race, right? Well fair enough, but in my opinion that's an afterthought, not really necessary, and potentially annoying for people who want to do certain class/race combinations but feel compelled to pick a certain race to go with their class to reach their full potential (Black Mage and Tarutaru for example).
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR