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General: Jennings: Expounding on Expansions
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com columnist Scott Jennings writes this look at expansion packs in the world of MMORPGs and how they can often be less of a blessing that one might first think.
Expansion packs are usually seen as a good thing for MMORPGs. Hey, more stuff is good, right?
Well, not always. More is not always better - sometimes it's just excessive.
First off, just to get the obvious out of the way, yes, expansion packs (usually) are popular. They bring a lot of new content to your favorite game, they keep things fresh through adding new classes, they can even add an entirely new graphics engine to keep the game looking shiny. And of course from the standpoint of a game developer, a new box (or "SKU", the gaming industry term for a new boxed release) keeps the game on store shelves well past when it would otherwise be pulled for the cardinal sin of being over three months old. More boxes on the shelves, after all, mean more customers in the servers.
Read Expounding on Expansions.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
"Next week: Please Allow Me To Gank Thee - PvP and how it breaks every MMORPG."
Im expecting a whine monologue on Darkfall
Cant wait.
expansions for sure is only to keep exsisting players/get lost costumers back
fun to see WoW make a graphic overhaul for their next expansion....EQ2 is planning to do the same thing (upgrading their shader system for the full game as well)
for the lvl gring you need to catch up on, SoE and am sure blizzard as well makes certain to speed up the lvling of lower lvls over time, in EQ2 my first lvl 50 took about 3 months...now you can easy lvl past that in a weekend ( a "no life" weekend but still)
over all Id find expansions a needed evil....or your MMO would for sure die out, when everything discovered, killed and obtained
Depends... If it's a carrot on a stick game-> true
If it's a sandbox-game (in the best sense)-> untrue
You don't need expansions if player creativity creates content. Chess hasn't needed an expansion for 3000 years ^^
M
Well it is true that it does break an mmorgp. How many full forced PvP last? How many of them do you know of that do extremely well? PvP brings out the worse in alot of people. The type of community that goes to a game where PvP is readily available is a very poor one. Yes there are alot of good people. But out of a community of let's say 100k, 100 can completely ruin the game. As people will look at it and say how unbalanced the game is and how horrible it is. It's hard to get good PR after your reputation is dragged through the dirt.
Also this week's article was very true and as good as everyone that i've read thus far.
I enjoyed this article, and I think his points on DAOC-TAO were right on the money. I think if Mythic had learned anything from TOA, it would have been to make Warhammer less about PVE and more about RVR. Unfortunately Mythic didn't learn anything, and War circled the drain.
Supreme Leader Hades
The Imperial Aces
Discord: https://discord.gg/CjBP4dc
Well it is true that it does break an mmorgp. How many full forced PvP last? How many of them do you know of that do extremely well? PvP brings out the worse in alot of people. The type of community that goes to a game where PvP is readily available is a very poor one. Yes there are alot of good people. But out of a community of let's say 100k, 100 can completely ruin the game. As people will look at it and say how unbalanced the game is and how horrible it is. It's hard to get good PR after your reputation is dragged through the dirt.
Also this week's article was very true and as good as everyone that i've read thus far.
Depends on how they do it.
PvP is - in its essence - fun. The problem is the anarcho-mafia mentality some developers choose to follow when implementing it, i.e. organising the world like a warlord driven banana republic with cookies and crack for violent acts. Allowing people to gank away freely ruins the whole game, unless it's a PvP only game and everyone wants to PvP at all times or you implement save areas where one can safely PvE...
M
I much prefer the Asheron's Call method of new content as oppossed to the expansion method.
For those of you who think WoW was the first MMO, Asheron's Call is a game in a unique fantasy world. It has no elves or dwarves. It doesn't have crowd control. It uses a skill tree instead of classes. It has also been going for over a decade.
What Asheron's Call does is have a patch every month. This includes the usual like fixes, balance tweaks etc. But what's great about it is that it includes a few new quests. So every single month you get new quests or a new hunting area or like their patch in October you get two new skills you can train, new augmentations to strengthen your character, a new jewelry slot, new enemy creatures, and even more content. All for free, and all part of the standard we patch every month.
I find it keeps the game fresh much more so then an expansion, when new quest items can come into the game each month then people can keep modifying. Instead of like most games where you max out your character in a month or two and then wait another 10-12 months with the same stuff you've already completed until the expansion comes out. Then you beat the expansion in a month or two again and once again have a year of downtime.
I, like many others, still play Asheron's Call to this day because it is ever changing and it stays interesting. I'm surprised more companies haven't wanted to adopt this model. I realize it's more work (have to continually have new content made, tested, and put out instead of a year to get that content made tested and fixed) and you don't get the sale of an expansion. But if it helps a game run for over a decade then I assume you see the money that expansions would of brought in anyways.
Why no mention of LotRO? With now 2 major expansions (MoM & SoM) out, plus roughly quarterly content updates, they've not only managed to add to end-game content - keeping the hardcore crowd happy - while at various times updating the starter areas and adding even mid-level content that has become somewhat stale. They've done this without sacrificing the key element of LotRO, which is the epic story of the Ring.
Moria was wildly successful last year and first blushes of Mirkwood appears the same. Yeah, Turbine rarely applies new concepts into LotRO, but by incorporating some of the best from others into the Tolkien world, it has kept it somewhat fresh.
With LotRO being one of the more popular titles on MMORPG, I would've liked to hear Jennings thoughts about it.
I've played it and enjoyed it. Like EQ2 it doesn't do a lot that's revolutionary but it does bring a high degree of polish. I haven't played it enough to really comment much more than that (not really being able to compare before/after newbie zone revamps and the like, for example)
Mines of Moria had some really controversial changes/features that pissed of alot of the playerbase. SoM thou seems to fix thoose issues. So expansions can have a very negative impact on a MMO but also bring it back on track.
The thing is that alot of people complain about the game, the devs listen and release an expansion to fix the things people complained about, but then they piss off the people who liked the game the way it was and was happy but silent.
The first expansion to a MMO seems to be the most controversial where the second one the devs have chance to make both camps happy by finding a compromise between thoose who were happy with "vanilla" and thoose who liked the changes in the first expansion. Seem like most WoW players were more happy with Wotlk than TBC aswell.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Expansions/patches, I think, are a tricky thing. On one level they are meant to fix problems occuring in the game; on another they add new content. The problem is finding balance between the two, and how to package them.
Personally, if I'm paying $15 a month, I'd like to see content and bug fixes implimented without the selling of a box title expansion. I'm not an economist, so I'm probably wrong, but I would think having even a few hunded-thousand subscribers can fund regular fix/content releases. EVE Online, for example, releases major content and patch updates on a regular basis.
I like seeing new content; it makes me feel warm and fuzzy when I step into a fresh zone in a world I've come to love. However, that feeling is tinged when an expansion tries to take the game in a new direction that doesn't quite fit. For example, I had that feeling with WoW's first expansion, The Burning Crusade. The setting just felt too scifi, and I looked back at the Dark Portal and wished I could bring Azeroth with me.
This brings me to make a comment on how the game is set up to begin with. If a game has a solid world upon release, there shouldn't be a great need for massive content updates (i.e. box title expansions). Instead, content released steadily over time with enough lore/story support to keep the player looking forward seems favorable.
I'm an idealist when it comes to these things, but that's where I stand.
Well it is true that it does break an mmorgp. How many full forced PvP last? How many of them do you know of that do extremely well? PvP brings out the worse in alot of people. The type of community that goes to a game where PvP is readily available is a very poor one. Yes there are alot of good people. But out of a community of let's say 100k, 100 can completely ruin the game. As people will look at it and say how unbalanced the game is and how horrible it is. It's hard to get good PR after your reputation is dragged through the dirt.
Also this week's article was very true and as good as everyone that i've read thus far.
Depends on how they do it.
PvP is - in its essence - fun. The problem is the anarcho-mafia mentality some developers choose to follow when implementing it, i.e. organising the world like a warlord driven banana republic with cookies and crack for violent acts. Allowing people to gank away freely ruins the whole game, unless it's a PvP only game and everyone wants to PvP at all times or you implement save areas where one can safely PvE...
M
I'm not going to retype my entire message since firefox just crashed. I'll sum it up here.
Forced PvP or unrestricted PvP is a very bad idea. The Majority like PvE more but there should still be some PvP for the minority. Everygame that has PvP needs to have a PvP and PvE server. I personally hate forced PvP as it is a horrible way to level. I'll never play AoC or DF as their both forced pvp games and being ganked the entire time w/ nothing else to do doesn't sound like fun.
(later on if i feel up to retyping my blocks of text i will for now just read that and remember firefox has some crazy key combos that no one knows about.)
Im still trying to crasp the Op's understanding of Expansion compared to Content patch. To me it sounds like he thinks expansions = payed for content - preferibly boxed in. Darkfall ofc has gone over the top in calling their patches expansions - but comparing that to what EVE online does with every new FREE downloadable expansion is very naive.
Expansion means expanding the game. Patch means fixing and adding to areas that already were in the game. Icecrown for example was in WOTLK all along - The gameworld is not expanded by adding a new dungeon. Ofc this becomes a bit blurred in games like EVE where there is no solid landmass - and probaly thats the reason why the OP has hard time understanding the Expansion concept of EVE. But he got it right with Darkfall - thats just normal bug fixes and minor content patches.
Expansions make money for the devs in games that already are getting money with subs. To me ALL expansions for sub games should be the EVE version. Big part of why Eve is still doing so well and has been able to expand IS because they are improving the OVERALL content in the game. Not just adding new areas on the map to get extra money. They also improve the beginners experience with every expansion so they game feels updated and improved. Compare that to games like WOW where the starting content is stuck in the 2005. Would the entire world not have changed when news of new continents became clear ? I would have thought so....
But hey.. that doesn't make money.... And games these days are all about money...
Well... maybe not EVE - even tho the OP doesnt understand their ideas behind Free expansions.....
Gamers do tho. Thats probably why EVE is still growing - and the company is one of very few that is actually EXPANDING their workforce. How can that be with free expansions and only subs ?
The answer ofc - is based on good content. While most other companies go for the greedy way adding to their games.
I started playing Eve 3 months ago so this is the first expansion for me to see come out. My wife still plays lotro alot so both of us had a patch day on the same day. She of course doesn't get my sci fi space game so she *sighed* and said "How much did that cost us!?" and I got to reply "FREE!". It certainly helped her gripe a little less about it :P Just don't tell her about my second account ok.
Yes we had moria, it was a dismal failure. So many founders left. Now we have SOM 1/8 of the content that we had in moria. Another dismal failure. Not to mention quests that dont advance, server overload. Its been a mess. Over the past year all the stuff e got was patches to Moria hardly no new content, nothing like it was before moria.
Sorry if this makes you mad I just go wow you think Turbine is givin us our moneys worth, You should look at what sony has done with eq2, moria pales in comparison to all the new free stuff that has happened in eq2.
Oh and if you think som fixes moria, its more of the same in the same dirrection.
PvP is fun for some people. Believe it or not, it is not fun for some others. And yet more people (like myself) count it as "fun in small doses". Not everyone is the same.
Consensual PvP games cater for all of those player types (minus the junior school sociopaths for whom "PvP is only fun if you are doing it to someone who can't or doesn't want to fight back").
Full open PvP is fun for some players, but the others realise that they are paying $15 a month to have "not fun" forced on them for the benefit of others. At which point they find something better to do with their money. And it seems there aren't enough of the first type of player to sustain an all-PvP, all the time game as anything more than a niche product.
Seeing as Lum has ranted about this topic more eloquently than myself, and at far greater length, on a number of occasions and is going to do so in style again next week, I'll bow out at this point and leave it to the master
AoC has PVE servers..
"Expansion means expanding the game. Patch means fixing and adding to areas that already were in the game."
Dark Age has added in free content in patches. Maybe in the few games you play the devs were greedy enough to have you believe this, but many games release patches that do as much as an expansion they just choose to not call it one. Its semantics you're arguing because you've restricted 'expanding' to mean only real estate and 'adding to' to mean every thing else but real estate.
Expansion means increasing the content of the game. Patch means fixing and increasing the content of the game. Sounds like you're making your own counter-argument by pointing out they are exactly the same thing by different names.
I disagree with the part about ToA - i really liked it (after some patches ^^). Ok as a EU Player it was a lot easier because we had access to a lot of information from the US Servers.
And yes - to level an item at female animals at night .... was crazy, but later it was ok and a lot of players were leveling in RvR zones - and that was good
ToA was full of content and on a nice level. Some encounters where really great and fun.
At release ToA was painful, to hard and gave not enough info on how to do some encs, but after some patches (level all in rvr or some in SI, ToA or Classic; /grant; ...) it was just a really great zone to play when you had no interest in RvR that day.
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Playing: Overwatch, Genshin Impact, Black Desert Mobile, Hundred Soul, Cyberpunk 2077
Inactive: WAR, DAoC, RIFT, GW1/2, TSW, Age of Wulin, Black Desert, Blade & Soul, Skyforge
but i hear Atari is working on a Chess MMO. And they already have the first expansion planned which adds the hero class "prince" and the "paladin" regular class (a Bishop/Knight hybrid)
AoC has PVE servers..
Well if we're talking about the same full forced PvP game that it was when it launched. Then maybe it does now. Still doesn't change the fact that tehy did on teh start, this has gotten them the reputation of "full forced PvP".
I find it strange to say any expansion or patch(pick what you like the most) is free, you can call it free if is a F2p game and is not need you to pay anything to play the game, but on the moment you pay a monthly fee nothing from that game is for free, if they sell a boxed expansion, its more like to me is how much more I will have to pay?
for pvp game is more like if you don't like pvp don't play pvp games, have a lot of PvE games there, you can choose what you want to play, I belive you complain about it if on the start the game was the normal PvE world then they change it to free pvp, I don't dislike pvp its fun and make you think faster and it gives you more things to do, what I really dislike is huge penalty for it when you die, like darkfall, you die anyone can loot you so you start with nothing again and if you get any rare drop you can just say bye bye to it, for that motive I just don't play games like this, UO at least now have the insurance thing, any rare or I want to have I can save it so I don't lose, well I only played UO and shadowbane with have a huge loss on deaths.
Well if WoW did it like how GW did theirs which is admittedly F2P after purchase and did it where you bought stand alone expansions it'd be pretty good idea. But remember these businesses are after your money. They know they need mroe and more people. And think of how expansion packs currently work in the biggest mmos. You have to PAY for them besides paying them 15$ a month. Althougth some of the older/less known charge only what seems to be 12.95$/month it's still the fact that blizzard's doing it so everyone else sees it as the way to do it. Also if something comes out as an Expansion Pack or a few major "content patches" is up to the publisher. As the game developers aren't in control of their game too much so to speak. And most of their money they make goes to the publisher. So they sit down and decide to make people to pay for the expansion packs. If they only get like let's say they make 5$ per month off the 15$ they charge people a month. (i'm not saying it's that low but it's definately the whole 15$)
Now if you were a developer, would you rather a) release a series of content patches over the time frame of 3-6 months or b) release an expansion pack for 30-45$. You will still get the money from the "dedicated" players but also you will get to have your game still on the shelf. Since i've yet to see a game that was released less than 7-8 months on the game store shelves. So right there's a loss on your profits. People who are at the store and are like "hmm which game should i get?" won't see your game at the store unless you release expansions as boxes. Now there are games online for people to download and word of mouth. Also some games are huge. WoW is currently a 9.00GB download. Plus you have those 2GB of patches from the last released "box" title. So will someone really want to who's going to get your game full of expansions want to download 11GB to just start playing? I doubt it, people don't have hours and hours to spend downloading installation files. So having it on a DvD is also good b/c you have to just pop it in if you want to reinstall the game. Instead of redownloading it if your pc goes under.
So then the development team behind blizzard let's look at how they do it since there's no doubting they're the kings over the mmo market. They have from what it seems two seperate development teams. One who's working on patches, and the other working on expansion packs. They all are constantly working on teh expansions immediately after they release the last one. So if you're a company. You get 5$ from each player each month. Plus if you have an expansion pack. You'll get let's say 15$ from each box that's sold for the expansions which include them all up until then (installed that is). So if someone's going to finally start playing wow. Before they've even played one month you could essentially get 80$ from them. So if teh game company gets 33% of whatever's made. That's roughly 27$ from them before they even play. A friend gets them into the game. You have 27$ from someone from their first month alone.
Now let's say they didn't sell the expansions. From the first month of having the game you'd buy the box at ~30$(ish something aabout that for a game this old). And it'd give you 10$. Now then which is better to a developer? 27$ or 10$? Plus each expansion you release you wouldn't get anymore from the already dedicated players. So with expansion you release you're essentially losing almost 15+$ from each player!. It makes perfect sense for them to do it like that. Not saying it's the best option but it's a damn easy way to build an empire.
I'm only a fan of an expansion when it doesn't make prior content obsolete.
Paying 40 bucks for an expansion that adds 20% new content just to make 30% of the old content worthless isnt a good thing imo.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I agree. This can definitely be seen in WoW even though the author of the article cited Cataclysm as an interesting take on dealing with the older content (original content before any expansions), its still going to make Northrend a shell of what it is now since now all the end-game content is going to be shifted over. That's the biggest disadvantage to a level cap and we all know by now, its only there to get us to stay subscribed that much longer. Its tiring and really the only reason why I'm even still on WoW is my girlfriend, family and friends. Once they decide to move onto another game (hopefully better and not as money hungry), I'm moving with them, its only a matter of time. WoW is an alright game and excel at keeping everything polished, but not the greatest even within its own genre in terms of content. A lot of it is overused and its only a matter of time until a better game (or set of games) ousts WoW out of its current position.
I'm a firm believer of releasing those expansions for free to the subscribers (at a cost if its a 1 time retail cost like Guild Wars like poster mentioned above said). Subscribers pay that monthly fee for the maintenance of the game and to keep it going and I don't think that should be limited to just "server maintenance". Again, if not for the easier access to the game for other friends and newer players. WoW is just an extreme case of how abused the concept of expansion is and I really wonder how many features they withhold from their "major patches" to keep as selling points on their next expansion. Absolutely ridiculous.