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One problem I haven't Seen addressed.. yet
BeefMach1ne
Member Posts: 32
If questing is based up decisions that are made by the player is it safe to assume that some quest lines you simply cannot do because of a choice you made when you started the game?
(Purely Example here because I don't claim to know any of the quests; I'm all for consequences and what not and its partly why i'm interested in the game. ) Remember that Space Pirate you Killed to save the village when you were level 5? Good deed right? Wrong because 30 levels later there is a super cool quest /instance that you get from the space pirates father in exchange for saving his life. It has some of the best items in the game.. oh well I guess you won't kill that space pirate next time... Next thing you know guilds Require that you don't kill this Space Pirate because the loot is good... blah blah etc etc.
This is kind of two edged sword here because If the content isn't worthy enough then I probably won't worry about making new chars. But if there is clearly superior choices you won't end up with much diversity and the system will devovle into the same on hum drum mmo...
Comments
Does not work that way. Most of the single choices take part in your story, which will change the way your story ends.
When it comes to group content you make group choices or group dialogue which you all participate in.
I'm 90% sure this is the way it works. This is what I have come to after countless interviews on the subject.
Well I understand that aspect of it but do those decisions exclude you from parts of the game or can you just go back and redo the quest and you get another outcome based on what the group did?
Basically I understand how decisions work but I don't want to be at endgame with my character and not be able to do some major event because I killed some guy at level 3 that at the time didn't seem very significant... that is all i'm saying.
No you can't go back, as I said, it don't matter, the archs will carry the groups to the same point in the game, every classes story will eventually tie in. I'm betting endgame will be riddled with choices for you and your group to explore giving you access to new content in the same content just from choices. Next time you enter you can try for a new choice. Consider it a padlock to bosses. I'm also speculating, make note of that.
He's trying to ask, if choice A leads to boss X and choice B leads to boss Y ... do X and Y have the same XP? Loot drops? % drops? Difficulty?
Bioware is pretty good about the equality of choices. But pretty good isn't perfect. I'm sure as FotMs ebb and flow and the NerfBat swings, it's quite possible that a choice you made at level 10 means the story line you're "destined" to unfold no longer includes the best items, or items that best suit your player.
To borrow your example, maybe the pirate quests USED to drop the best stuff, so at level 5 you save him. At level 10, they nerf that gear and at level 20, you're stuck going through his quests because you saved him and end up with gear that puts you on a sub standard level as compared to people that completed the quest before you (and those that kill the pirate at 5 because the other quest line is now better).
Again, BioWare is pretty good. But this is their first endeavor into a game that requires items and classes to balance or offset each other. It doesn't really matter in Dragon Age if something is OP as you don't ever hit another human that can crank the wambulance siren.
It's quite possible that they've got an amazing database and can populate changes throughout the game (inventory, loot tables, etc). But if they don't, you'll likely wake up one morning after 8 months of playing to discover that the skills and lootset you've carefully collected throughout the story are no longer functioning in a way that maintains your viability as a player. And worse, you may still have 10+ levels to cap but can't change your path enough to rescue your character from being impotent at end game.
Thank you that is exactly what I am saying.. I guess I worded my question wrong but what the post above me says is correct.. I'm not trying to be a doomsayer or anything But there is going to be some big QQ because investing all that time in a storyline just to realize that Story line Y was intended for Agents and you decided to do this as a Sith Warrior so you end up with less than stellar gear.....
Not to compare this to WoW... but for instance in wow some quest lines clearly lean towards a certain class and some quests have MUST have gear for X classes at Y level. This is balanced by the fact that your decisions hardly matter and everyone has access to the end game content...
In SWTOR I see a problem if you kill That Space Pirate and he so happens to be a MAJOR role in some type of end game content/quest Will I then be excluded for it? If not then that makes the story kind of pointless... If so is there equally something exclusive for the guys who didn't Kill the Space Pirate? Hopefully this makes sense... This leaves a third problem where guilds would REQUIRE certain choices to be made just to run the same instances and quests together.... otherwise the storyline would be pointless...
I am more concerned people will look up the best results in the internet, or if you group bully you to go for decision X, because thats easier/better. Like in that Sith scene, you can kill the captain or not, and if you don't you will have it easier, because he is more experienced. I sorta fear group mates make you decide based on internet knowledge, and then the whole point is sorta spoilt.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Woah, woah, woah...you aren't going to get to choose your solo storyline and that solo storyline is as far as i know the only thing that is dynamic and effectable. They aren't going to make a game where every quest chain can open up differing quest chains that would be exponentially huge.
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
I'm sorry I'll admit that I'm not well informed on the game which is why I asked this question here. But then where does the "weight" behind my decisions come from.. because if you don't open and close quest chains up then you would have a story that only has revenge plots and grudges and maybe a few more goons to fight than usual if that's the case then I guess the storyline doesn't hold much value or weight besides those that enjoy a well told story.
People bitch about the smallest things: If I go up does that mean I don't go down? If I go right does that mean I don't go left? If I make a choice with consequences does that mean I don't get consequences?
Lol I'm sorry that you consider asking a question "bitching" but I'll take that as a Strange way of saying That I asked a Irrelevant question... Have a nice day.
Its not a ridiculous or irrelevant question, some people lash out when they don't understand things.
BioWare has stated that your choices have consequences. They've also said that there are ways to make up for bad decisions, if you want your character to go another way. But, as clearly stated by the most recent play through interview, there was at least one instance where the dialog choice picked was not what was intended. Maybe it was a simple conversation redirect, but it might've been the last chance to receive a quest for some amazing XP.
While there is some appeal to that, when you're talking about (hopefully) millions of readers from hundreds of different cultures in reality you have a recipe for lots of misunderstandings.
The only way to ensure that there is no serious impact on the character's skills, abilities, or loot, is to disconnect any of these rewards from the single player story, effectively making the idea of consequences an illusion (if you choose X, then you read/hear different dialog but end up with all the same gear as the person that picked Y). At that point, it becomes a matter of running through the single player by the shortest possible route. Unless you just want to read it to read it.
If there are consequences to your decisions, then it isn't like deciding you don't like a knight at level five and would prefer to play a consular ... it's quite possible that you're on the climax of the story, 45 levels into the game, spent 500 hours crafting the perfect story line with the best gear ... and drop your fork on 2) Kill everyone you see and gimp yourself! as you're reaching for 1) Save the day and create the coolest character EVER!
Meh ... load last save game ... DOH! MMOs don't do that.
Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll have a character rollback option (which they can't or people will rollback to loot farm). Otherwise your choices are:
Rage Quit
Reroll
Personally, I don't want to spend 500 hours reading the exact same story, twice, like watching a back to back Gallactica marathon (admittedly very cool, but twice in a row? No fast forward? No Next? Credits and Intro included?) just so you can be sure to not have a typo ...
But it is an effective business model. Please pay us more because you sneezed and 'skjdviwe' in the middle of dialog chooses the next 8 options for you ... You are now a goody-two-shoes instead of an evil overlord ... ooops
My understanding is, while this might happen, since you killed the space pirate, the son of the family the space pirate killed, offers you a quest to do something very similar, with a very similar reward. This pertains to the person's PERSONAL story, and not the group content.
So while you may not get the blue lightsaber of loldeath, you'll get the purple deathsaber of lols.
Of course, I'm not positive. So I could be totally wrong. And you might get screwed out of something from solo gameplay that I doubt would compare to even group gameplay, and especially to raid gameplay/pvp.
No, I think it is just trolling on your part. So many people seem to be going out of their way to bring up "issues" they have with the game. Also, it seems kind of obvious in your class story that if you choose A over B, you have "lost" the B option. Very obvious. So when you ask about it, it seems to be trollish or trying to make yourself seem clever by pointing out a flaw.
I agree,
I think this system will be great if everybody just leave the decision making to each other without interfering. Unfortunately, I think situations like you just described are sure to happen.
Im sure they have thought this out, Its bioware they have worked with games that have choices, and well alot of their games depend on them,
Not just that, there maybe some events eg kill this npc and cut off a quest line (and this does not mean main quests but side quests) but doing so opens a new npc with identical quests but instead of saving a town you destroy the town just for example.
And maybe if you team up and decided to choose a different route i think you will still be allowed to help your team mates, but you dont get quest rewards because the quests are not available, and to be honest alot of games do this you may need to be level 40 ect but now you needed to have saved someone instead of killing.
Nothing wrong about that at all. Normal in my opinion.
I'm more concerned about gimping a character based on the choices made. Your choices have consequences, and some move you to the light or dark side. If you choose to kill one time, and then save the next, are you going to wind up with a jack of all trades character who is a master of nothing? If that is the case, then you don't really have a choice. Hopefully there will be enough opportunities to alter you faction so that your choices are not limited.
"Consequences" doesn't necessarily mean loot, quests, dungeons, or raids. In particular, I'd be very shocked if Bioware was so stupid that you could get yourself locked out of a dungeon or raid (it's bad design and it also means they have to make a lot more content). Maybe some things like faction rewards are different, but Bioware is pretty good at making things equal, so I doubt there are going to be significant differences. Maybe if you go Dark Side you can get an item Light Siders can't, but that item augments Dark Side stuff anyhow, so Light Siders wouldn't want it.
Anyhow, they haven't said anything about what the consequences are. It might just be story hooks (for solo, or just how those hooks are gotten in multi, but you still get them) and Light/Dark side alignment. Those ARE consequences, and they even matter in a Star Wars game, so it can all be good.
Oh, and about the Pirate son hypothetical problem, maybe if you kill the son, then the big Pirate makes you jump through some hoops first. Plenty of ways to make it so you don't get locked out of content (and conversely, if you spared the guy, then someone he victimized makes you jump through hoops later).
Okay Freddy its like your speed reading my post you got the main idea but you didn't really understand my question; I guess.. Of course its obvious if you choose something you cannot have the other.. but what im asking is Will I miss out on[significant] content? Like will some choices clearly be superior over the other with Loot, EXP, Content, Maybe even access to new companions...
But if you continue to insist I am a troll then please just stop coming back here.. plenty of others actually understand my question and are discussing the post here. I'm sure there other posts you can "fight the good fight" and battle the tolls away...
To continue the Discussion I think i'm fine with personal story arcs being the most defining and dynamic this would also minimize the blow to group decisions etc. I've played Bioware games before and plenty of "Oh S**T reload my save" moments that happen because you thought you were doing something good but then it blows up in your face and actually can ruin some major parts of the game... I don't want this in a game.. I guess i'm not "hardcore" but I won't be spending 500 hours on a character and have it blown in one decision..
Personally I find Bioware's "choices" to be often illusory, offering little real impact upon the game other than letting you feel as if you're controlling the storyline and when something important in the game comes along, where they want the storyline to go will dictate your actions more than your own choices.
So we'll see how it works out in an MMO but still as other's have pointed out, its about the loot. In an MMO a lot of people don't care about the MMO's story (either because they just don't care or because given the presence of thousands of other players, making up your own dynamic storyline is so much more fun) but they care about loot. Still, have to figure Bioware knows this and will deal with it appropriately.
Can't wait for the free trial!
No, I think it is just trolling on your part. So many people seem to be going out of their way to bring up "issues" they have with the game. Also, it seems kind of obvious in your class story that if you choose A over B, you have "lost" the B option. Very obvious. So when you ask about it, it seems to be trollish or trying to make yourself seem clever by pointing out a flaw.
I think thats a bit harsh. I dont think he's trolling at all. He is simply asking a question in an attempt to understand how the game might work. There isnt anything wrong with that. Its what this forum is for afterall.
You migth be right but this is star wars! Your own story as YOU unfold it, I say screw the loot and play for fun. Hardcore gamers need to stick with platform games IF all they care about is the loot, is nice to have and is a nice add but some of us just like to play for fun and the friends we have. I remember WoW before the stupid as honor system it was all about having fun and taking ovr SS/the other horde town no one gave a shit about what they got. Then again I'm biased I like story lines and PvE mixed with some PvP as long as I can get everything done while having fun.
People care about loot because the end game is where most people spend a majority of their time. And endgame is all about min/maxing or collecting loot. I can't imagine that you woud just sit around the cantina after cap and talk about the good ol' days when you were still slogging through story.
And BioWare does do some amazing things with their stories. But how far are they going to drift into evil in an MMO and dodge the 'M' rating (or maybe they'll just shoot to get it).
But, as posted earlier, BioWare does have a pretty good handle on letting the reins loose when the choices don't matter, but then building in some Deus Ex that forces you out of your story and back into theirs. I've tried several times to break away from the Gray Wardens but have only managed once to make Duncan say he invokes conscription. You can get away with that a bit more in single player than you can in a game where people ARE their avatars and every time they want to turn left but you make them go right, peirces that veil of immersion.