Your locked into a handful of zones and forced to run either dungeons or instance pvp to gain Items.
The entire game is flipped on the player.
A mmo goes from exploration and adventure while advancing a character through spells and perfecting a particular playstyle to a repetitive grind from hell.
I hate Endgame and I hate progression through Items just as much.
Ever since wow came onto the market they knew that they had to hold the carrot out on the stick for you. That's the leveling from 1-79. So then when you hit 80 which is the current cap you have the "end game" they have to make it look amazing so people will waste all of their time paying for the content that they'll just blow through waiting to do the real stuff. WoW as everyone else says starts at end game. At end game you have daily quests, grinding for rep, grinding for gear, and random miscalenous grinding. Also PvP. But to do the last one youhave to grind for the best gear or atleast the almost best to evne stand a chance in the PvP battles.
In a subscription based game you have to give those players who are at the level cap something to do. As we all know wow's been around longer than enough so that EVERYONE has a guide up and everyone can read how to race to level cap. So those players who want to race have to have something to do. And blizzard knows this all too well, so what they do is release a new expansion pack ever 2 years or so, and then makes most of the content from the last xpac out of commission. The reason for this is why would you want last xpacs end game content to be still viable? If you did that people wouldn't want to go do them they want even better and better gear. so players who wnat to experience raiding will have to get to cap. That takes lots of money from the players. So then people won't know if they like the raiding b/c no one does the lower level ones. So to experience end game content you have to be end game no previews here.
Being focused on the end game is best way that a p2p game who's focus is on loot could do. You want players to grind and grind and grind and grind some more? Well then, show them ooh shiny. Simple.
edit: And actually most classes won't know how to play from 1-79 in your magic scenario. Think about priests? Yeah they have to level as shadow in wow and then theyi hit cap and they have to play a healer to even get into a raid/dungeon. So in reality 1-79 is just the grind for wow.
Problem is developers never work on early and middle game content past the original launch. For them its just easier to tack on newer end game content. Adding any content before end game can and often would require changes such as zone revamps, quest line culling and zone rebalancing. This would take far more effort and time than just adding a new end game dungeon and a few other instances to the end level game experience.
It also saves them the time of having to alter lore in the game (changing a bit of lore in the early game will ripple through all the way to end game and can lead to inconsistancies) because why rewrite the entire lore of a game when you can just add the whole 'A new evil has appeared now that you have defeated Boss X'.
You also have new MMOs being made with a very linear way of thinking. The early game is now totally mapped out for a player, leading them from point A to point Z. Exploration in current MMOs has been watered down to the point that all you need to do is enter an area and everything within a 20 mile radius appears on your mini map. Game worlds are getting larger ("We have 10000 sq km of land in our game!") while the zones are getting smaller and more funneled with limited pathing for a player to chose from. The lack of exploration, lack of roaming freedom all leads to a pretty lax sense of danger. Groups are not as needed as they once were as people can easily solo their way through a game now (and I like solo playing in MMOs, as well as grouping, but my god it has become way too easy these days. I solo for the challenge... now I solo while watching TV...). Early to middle game has become more of a chore that you would rather just skip through than dwell in, leaving only the end game to look forward to (seeing as that is where most of the content and updates/expansions focus on).
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Because the content before the end game isn't nearly as interesting? Because achieving max level feels rewarding? Because accomplishing tasks before other people is a form of competition? There are lots of reasons. Most people didn't burn their way through to the end game back when Everquest was released.
The dungeons at lower levels follow the same formula as the ones at higher levels. The only difference is the loot is better at higher levels and there's no bragging rights to beating a level 10 instance. Sometimes I wonder if players want a challenging low level dungeon since most of the time the group brings a player 20+ levels higher to obliterate all the mobs so they can complete the quests and collect the loot. Of course the people racing to max level never bother with the lower level dungeons because it's more efficient to just grind. Then they turn around and say the game is a big grind and the lower levels are boring.
How can reaching max level feel like an accomplishment anymore? Every MMO I've played in the past 5 years had no challenge to hit level cap. It is not a matter of "if", it's only a matter of "when". You'd have to actively try not to hit the cap.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I like to see an mmo as an open ended world where you can always find something to do. Its not like Im burning through the levels with an obsession of getting to max level asap. Its more like I play the game, I progress, I do stuff, and in the end when I eventually reach max level I want to continue finding new and interesting content that does not involve quitting the character that I built.
I don't try to be endgame, it just happens . I guess if you play a while in any game, you will be close to the "endgame". Until a new expansion comes out that is.
Why do people burn through content just to get to end game and bitch? Why should MMOs have more to do at the end then any other game, I mean the fact that you can do pretty much whatever you want at the end and pvp is more than just credits rolling, or forcing your character back to level 1 and making the content harder? I guess I don't care about end game because I can make a new toon and have a completely different gaming experience.
The first few times around it's "fun", so end game isn't a huge concern in the beginning. 1-2 years down the road, you've made dozens of toons... half of which never make it past the early levels out of the sheer boredom having the "been there-done that" feel to it. More often than not, the most new content is added to "endgame". So if you don't have all of those toons leveled up high enough, you can't enjoy the new stuff they add. Hence, most people try to blow through the game with their 37th toon, to reach the endgame content that's newer to them.
I mean honestly, the main reason I quit WoW was because there was no way in hell I was going to level a toon again. Everything from the starter zones all the way up to Gadgetzan I was sick to death of and leveling up to that point for me was not fun, it was tedium. Endgame was the carrot at the end of the stick. *shrug* maybe that's just me, but that's just with one game. Others I wasn't so inclined to feel the need to blow through content to get to the newer fun stuff.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Problem is developers never work on early and middle game content past the original launch. For them its just easier to tack on newer end game content. Adding any content before end game can and often would require changes such as zone revamps, quest line culling and zone rebalancing. This would take far more effort and time than just adding a new end game dungeon and a few other instances to the end level game experience. It also saves them the time of having to alter lore in the game (changing a bit of lore in the early game will ripple through all the way to end game and can lead to inconsistancies) because why rewrite the entire lore of a game when you can just add the whole 'A new evil has appeared now that you have defeated Boss X'. You also have new MMOs being made with a very linear way of thinking. The early game is now totally mapped out for a player, leading them from point A to point Z. Exploration in current MMOs has been watered down to the point that all you need to do is enter an area and everything within a 20 mile radius appears on your mini map. Game worlds are getting larger ("We have 10000 sq km of land in our game!") while the zones are getting smaller and more funneled with limited pathing for a player to chose from. The lack of exploration, lack of roaming freedom all leads to a pretty lax sense of danger. Groups are not as needed as they once were as people can easily solo their way through a game now (and I like solo playing in MMOs, as well as grouping, but my god it has become way too easy these days. I solo for the challenge... now I solo while watching TV...). Early to middle game has become more of a chore that you would rather just skip through than dwell in, leaving only the end game to look forward to (seeing as that is where most of the content and updates/expansions focus on).
^^^^ this, QFT
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
To put it bluntly, every mmo should be fun before the end-game content, but they're not. All new content added is usually end-game and it's glorified. This will never change.
^^^ and this.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
It's a good question. I have no idea. It does seem rather funny. I made a bunch of posts stating that I'd like a game that encourages grouping. And I get blasted with people say, NO Forced grouping! WE have families, we can't be Forced to Group! We have to SOLO! I can't sit around LFG all the time! I have to make progress! Right now! Uh, ok. you need to make progress playing solo, for what exactly? So I can get to the level cap and go on raids of course! Oh, so you can play a forced grouping game at the end? Yes, exactly! Seems rather odd, but that's how it works. Solo to the max level as fast as possible, so you can raid. I guess. Unless the end game is PvP I suppose, but I don't see many RvR games being released. There is WAR but they came up with a pretty sucky design and managed to throw a wet blanket on RvR.
Wow obsessive much?!?
As for the original question I don't know. But this is a big reason why I have almost completely given up on mmo. I enjoyed creating my characters in UO, which could be played from beginning to end solo. That is really were I found most of my enjoyment the journey from beginning to end. This lets race to the end so we can farm the phat loot which makes character development pointless sucks.
Because the end game is the mmo. The leveling process is just another stereotypical rpg. Does that mean you should rush through the leveling content? Eh, probably not. However, for those of us who have done it a few times, it's just not very enjoyable. Of course, we're also rushing to build wealth, corner our markets, build our guilds for end-game raids/pvp/territorial control, etc.
Every game nowadays is a wow clone with pitiful raid-only end-game content. There's a heck of a lot more to a mmo than end-game raiding. Unfortunately, not many mmos have many mmo features anymore.
Because the end game is the mmo. The leveling process is just another stereotypical rpg. Does that mean you should rush through the leveling content? Eh, probably not. However, for those of us who have done it a few times, it's just not very enjoyable. Of course, we're also rushing to build wealth, corner our markets, build our guilds for end-game raids/pvp/territorial control, etc.
Every game nowadays is a wow clone with pitiful raid-only end-game content. There's a heck of a lot more to a mmo than end-game raiding. Unfortunately, not many mmos have many mmo features anymore.
Yeah WoW developed the concept of end-game raid content... u r rite
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Because the content before the end game isn't nearly as interesting? Because achieving max level feels rewarding? Because accomplishing tasks before other people is a form of competition? There are lots of reasons. Most people didn't burn their way through to the end game back when Everquest was released.
Because EQ was tougher then today's MMO's, plus, people played EQ as an open world and simply enjoyed the journey, not the destination...at least not right away.
IMO, most people now simply treat MMO's as console games that are suppose to instantly gratify them and have somewhat of an ending. When they discover there really is no ending, because MMO's ARE, or at least WERE more about the journey, they whine. Plus, some people just love their e-fame with getting server firsts, which include max lvl first, epic mount first, etc, etc. Sad really to me.
I think there should be an option to buy a maxed out toon for 12 months of subscripton price. So, 14.95 a month, for 12 months, which is $179.40. If you don't want to do the content to level, you just pay 180 bucks, rounded up, and there you go, max level toon so you can raid.
Why? Isn't that like buying a game you have already beaten? Kind of pointless. This is why their is no sense of community in most of today's MMO's. No one sticks around long enough to get to know one another, etc. In too big of a hurry in a genre that isn't meant for it.
"End game" is mmo slavery. Your locked into a handful of zones and forced to run either dungeons or instance pvp to gain Items. The entire game is flipped on the player. A mmo goes from exploration and adventure while advancing a character through spells and perfecting a particular playstyle to a repetitive grind from hell. I hate Endgame and I hate progression through Items just as much.
No one enjoys the ride anymore.
I couldn't agree more with you. It's time to change MMO's gameplay.
It's a good question. I have no idea. It does seem rather funny. I made a bunch of posts stating that I'd like a game that encourages grouping. And I get blasted with people say, NO Forced grouping! WE have families, we can't be Forced to Group! We have to SOLO! I can't sit around LFG all the time! I have to make progress! Right now! Uh, ok. you need to make progress playing solo, for what exactly? So I can get to the level cap and go on raids of course! Oh, so you can play a forced grouping game at the end? Yes, exactly! Seems rather odd, but that's how it works. Solo to the max level as fast as possible, so you can raid. I guess. Unless the end game is PvP I suppose, but I don't see many RvR games being released. There is WAR but they came up with a pretty sucky design and managed to throw a wet blanket on RvR.
Heheh... the bit in blue is pretty funny... and pretty much dead on.
Although, more and more are starting to get on the "Raids should be soloable. It's unfair to force us to group up for raids" bandwagon now.
As for the OP's topic... I don't get it either and, to be honest, it's seemed like a pretty self-defeating behavior to me as well.
My personal philosophy (for what it's worth) is that it seems to have started with WoW. WoW being based on Warcraft, which up 'til WoW were all single-player games (with optional multiplayer components) with a defined end. A finish line, if you will. And, like in many console MMOs, how quickly a player can complete a game seems to be a point of pride - playing a game is all about getting to the end. So... they bring what I call that "console mentality" into MMORPGs where there really *is* no end - or at least shouldn't be. But, boy do they do their best to shoe-horn one in anyway.
I say this because, frankly, in the few years I played MMOs before WoW took off, I never saw that mentality demonstrated, ever. People didn't worry about getting to the end-game. They worried about whatever their next short-term goal was. They worried about getting in game and having fun doing whatever they were doing.
You also never saw - or at least I never did - MMO hopping like you do now... This is a natural result of the "race to end game" mentality as well I think. They burn through the game, ignore most all the content (or "useless filler" as they call it, but I'll get to that) along the way, race through the end-game content, get bored, blame the devs for their own playstyle, and start looking to the next MMO so they can do it all again.
At the risk of sounding a bit presumptuous, perhaps - though I think it's an accurate observation - many who came to MMOs with WoW are still stuck in that "console mentality" where it's all about "beating the game". So, they start the game already wanting to "beat it". Since there is no real "win" condition for a MMO, they found a surrogate in the "End Game". Like playing a single player is all about "finishing it", so playing a MMO - to them - is all about "getting to end game".
I think it also plays into why many will argue that the low and mid levels are just worthless filler to milk the players. It goes hand-in-hand with the mentality that "it's all about the end game". This time I don't care if I sound arrogant because it's the truth: These people do not get what MMORPGs are about. It's like complaining that tabletop D&D requires character sheets because the DMs just want you to write a lot. The journey to the level cap is - or is at least supposed to be - part of the MMORPG experience.
The whole "phat lewt" thing comes into play as well. Loot is a great motivator it seems, and what better loot is there in a MMO than at the end game, with all the big bosses? The fun of the fight and the enjoyment of the adventure with other folks just aren't motivation enough, I guess. Nope... gotta have some bling to show off at the end or it's a waste of time. So... that becomes a motivator as well.
When you see people asking - before they've even started - what the level cap is, how quickly they can get there, what class is best for soloing, etc. etc... but ask nothing about the crafting systems, the world design, the storylines, the depth of the gameplay overall, the community, etc.... I think that says a lot.
It's self-defeating, to me, and unfortunate, because so many refuse to acknowledge that they are their own worst enemy. They hop from MMO to MMO to MMO, repeating the same process of racing through it, burning through the end-game, getting bored and moving on... never stopping to wonder why they can't seem to find one that keeps them satisfied. Meanwhile, others all around them in those same MMOs are taking their time, having a lot of fun, have no intention of leaving for another game and are saving a hell of a lot of money on box purchases in the process. Of course, when you mention that to many of the "end game or die" type, they'll spin it as those people simply being crappy players. It never occurs to them that maybe people simply have a different playstyle and enjoy the game enough to *not* want to rush through it. No no.. they're just "crappy players who don't know any better".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think the problem is that the endgame is simply better (in alot of cases). In wow for instance, the end game raids are sick and a lot of fun while the leveling is pretty boring in my opinion.
I'm not talking about the folks who spend a lot of time as a community and reach end-game at some point, and spend lots of time there, because they justly earned it. No, I'm talking about the scum who devour everything given to them, take a shit, and demand more. You know who you are.
They've ruined everything I used to like about MMOs. I'm tired of hearing people complain back at me and tell me "It's what you make it." No, it isn't what I make it. These games used to be about an enormous welcoming community. A community of short-term goals who got online to share adventures. Journeying for literally years before ever seeing your first "Epic Monster", because everyone took their time. So it really *was* epic, in all regards.
Now, the journey sucks. Little effort is put into making the journey enjoyable and it tends to be so quick, unless you force yourself to take it slow.. being virtually alone because nobody else does, and it just sucks. You log-in for the first time and you can already see the straight path you're destined to take, with very little options.
The only game that is a little easier to take your time with these days, for me, was Lord of the Rings Online. It's pretty fun to just run around and meet people, maybe even do some RP, play some music, etc. Though.. it's getting bad now. Places are empty, nobody is concerned with the "filler material" and every player can be found farting about at the newest "end-game" zone. Turbines expansions are destroying what the game was originally about.
Everything is automated, everything is handed to you. Heaven forbid you have to wait for a single thing in any of these games. "Oh boy, if I have to wait, I'll quit and unsubscribe and play a different game." I wish companies would stop fucking around and make a unique game for once. I'm tired of the hype of a game for *years* only to see how much of a cookie-cutter piece of crap it is.
(You'll see in my sig that I'm currently playing Age of Conan, which I am now currently regretting. It is a prime example of everything I'm talking about. The whole game is deserted except for the Kheshetta entrance and /global chat where everyone recruits for raids. I tried to savor my "revisit" and make the best of it, but it's not happening. The entire game has quite unexpectedly devolved into a Guild Wars clone.)
Gotta blame the developers for this one. They put all the fun stuff at the end-game; what are players gonna do? They'll power through the dull stuff to get to the fun stuff. The obsession with end-game will only cease when/if this trend changes.
Again, sometimes you need a contrast.
Would the game REALLY be as fun if you logged on day one and jumped right into the "end game"?
I think a lot of players THINK it would, but if they actually did that they wouldn't enjoy the end game as much.
I could be wrong, but I think it would lessen the enjoyment of the game as a whole.
Comments
"End game" is mmo slavery.
Your locked into a handful of zones and forced to run either dungeons or instance pvp to gain Items.
The entire game is flipped on the player.
A mmo goes from exploration and adventure while advancing a character through spells and perfecting a particular playstyle to a repetitive grind from hell.
I hate Endgame and I hate progression through Items just as much.
No one enjoys the ride anymore.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Ever since wow came onto the market they knew that they had to hold the carrot out on the stick for you. That's the leveling from 1-79. So then when you hit 80 which is the current cap you have the "end game" they have to make it look amazing so people will waste all of their time paying for the content that they'll just blow through waiting to do the real stuff. WoW as everyone else says starts at end game. At end game you have daily quests, grinding for rep, grinding for gear, and random miscalenous grinding. Also PvP. But to do the last one youhave to grind for the best gear or atleast the almost best to evne stand a chance in the PvP battles.
In a subscription based game you have to give those players who are at the level cap something to do. As we all know wow's been around longer than enough so that EVERYONE has a guide up and everyone can read how to race to level cap. So those players who want to race have to have something to do. And blizzard knows this all too well, so what they do is release a new expansion pack ever 2 years or so, and then makes most of the content from the last xpac out of commission. The reason for this is why would you want last xpacs end game content to be still viable? If you did that people wouldn't want to go do them they want even better and better gear. so players who wnat to experience raiding will have to get to cap. That takes lots of money from the players. So then people won't know if they like the raiding b/c no one does the lower level ones. So to experience end game content you have to be end game no previews here.
Being focused on the end game is best way that a p2p game who's focus is on loot could do. You want players to grind and grind and grind and grind some more? Well then, show them ooh shiny. Simple.
edit: And actually most classes won't know how to play from 1-79 in your magic scenario. Think about priests? Yeah they have to level as shadow in wow and then theyi hit cap and they have to play a healer to even get into a raid/dungeon. So in reality 1-79 is just the grind for wow.
Lot's of people just hang out and socialize at end game. Some roleplay. Some level up their crafting.
You can pvp now to get all your pvp gear except for weapons, I think. Once you have this pvp gear, you can raid.
You are only limited by your imagination.
There's some 'keeping up with the jones'' but you don't have to fall into that trap.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Problem is developers never work on early and middle game content past the original launch. For them its just easier to tack on newer end game content. Adding any content before end game can and often would require changes such as zone revamps, quest line culling and zone rebalancing. This would take far more effort and time than just adding a new end game dungeon and a few other instances to the end level game experience.
It also saves them the time of having to alter lore in the game (changing a bit of lore in the early game will ripple through all the way to end game and can lead to inconsistancies) because why rewrite the entire lore of a game when you can just add the whole 'A new evil has appeared now that you have defeated Boss X'.
You also have new MMOs being made with a very linear way of thinking. The early game is now totally mapped out for a player, leading them from point A to point Z. Exploration in current MMOs has been watered down to the point that all you need to do is enter an area and everything within a 20 mile radius appears on your mini map. Game worlds are getting larger ("We have 10000 sq km of land in our game!") while the zones are getting smaller and more funneled with limited pathing for a player to chose from. The lack of exploration, lack of roaming freedom all leads to a pretty lax sense of danger. Groups are not as needed as they once were as people can easily solo their way through a game now (and I like solo playing in MMOs, as well as grouping, but my god it has become way too easy these days. I solo for the challenge... now I solo while watching TV...). Early to middle game has become more of a chore that you would rather just skip through than dwell in, leaving only the end game to look forward to (seeing as that is where most of the content and updates/expansions focus on).
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The dungeons at lower levels follow the same formula as the ones at higher levels. The only difference is the loot is better at higher levels and there's no bragging rights to beating a level 10 instance. Sometimes I wonder if players want a challenging low level dungeon since most of the time the group brings a player 20+ levels higher to obliterate all the mobs so they can complete the quests and collect the loot. Of course the people racing to max level never bother with the lower level dungeons because it's more efficient to just grind. Then they turn around and say the game is a big grind and the lower levels are boring.
How can reaching max level feel like an accomplishment anymore? Every MMO I've played in the past 5 years had no challenge to hit level cap. It is not a matter of "if", it's only a matter of "when". You'd have to actively try not to hit the cap.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I like to see an mmo as an open ended world where you can always find something to do. Its not like Im burning through the levels with an obsession of getting to max level asap. Its more like I play the game, I progress, I do stuff, and in the end when I eventually reach max level I want to continue finding new and interesting content that does not involve quitting the character that I built.
I don't try to be endgame, it just happens
. I guess if you play a while in any game, you will be close to the "endgame". Until a new expansion comes out that is.
The first few times around it's "fun", so end game isn't a huge concern in the beginning. 1-2 years down the road, you've made dozens of toons... half of which never make it past the early levels out of the sheer boredom having the "been there-done that" feel to it. More often than not, the most new content is added to "endgame". So if you don't have all of those toons leveled up high enough, you can't enjoy the new stuff they add. Hence, most people try to blow through the game with their 37th toon, to reach the endgame content that's newer to them.
I mean honestly, the main reason I quit WoW was because there was no way in hell I was going to level a toon again. Everything from the starter zones all the way up to Gadgetzan I was sick to death of and leveling up to that point for me was not fun, it was tedium. Endgame was the carrot at the end of the stick. *shrug* maybe that's just me, but that's just with one game. Others I wasn't so inclined to feel the need to blow through content to get to the newer fun stuff.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
^^^^ this, QFT
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
^^^ and this.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Wow obsessive much?!?
As for the original question I don't know. But this is a big reason why I have almost completely given up on mmo. I enjoyed creating my characters in UO, which could be played from beginning to end solo. That is really were I found most of my enjoyment the journey from beginning to end. This lets race to the end so we can farm the phat loot which makes character development pointless sucks.
Because the end game is the mmo. The leveling process is just another stereotypical rpg. Does that mean you should rush through the leveling content? Eh, probably not. However, for those of us who have done it a few times, it's just not very enjoyable. Of course, we're also rushing to build wealth, corner our markets, build our guilds for end-game raids/pvp/territorial control, etc.
Every game nowadays is a wow clone with pitiful raid-only end-game content. There's a heck of a lot more to a mmo than end-game raiding. Unfortunately, not many mmos have many mmo features anymore.
Yeah WoW developed the concept of end-game raid content... u r rite
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Because EQ was tougher then today's MMO's, plus, people played EQ as an open world and simply enjoyed the journey, not the destination...at least not right away.
IMO, most people now simply treat MMO's as console games that are suppose to instantly gratify them and have somewhat of an ending. When they discover there really is no ending, because MMO's ARE, or at least WERE more about the journey, they whine. Plus, some people just love their e-fame with getting server firsts, which include max lvl first, epic mount first, etc, etc. Sad really to me.
Why? Isn't that like buying a game you have already beaten? Kind of pointless. This is why their is no sense of community in most of today's MMO's. No one sticks around long enough to get to know one another, etc. In too big of a hurry in a genre that isn't meant for it.
Gotta blame the developers for this one.
They put all the fun stuff at the end-game; what are players gonna do?
They'll power through the dull stuff to get to the fun stuff.
The obsession with end-game will only cease when/if this trend changes.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I couldn't agree more with you.
It's time to change MMO's gameplay.
Heheh... the bit in blue is pretty funny... and pretty much dead on.
Although, more and more are starting to get on the "Raids should be soloable. It's unfair to force us to group up for raids" bandwagon now.
As for the OP's topic... I don't get it either and, to be honest, it's seemed like a pretty self-defeating behavior to me as well.
My personal philosophy (for what it's worth) is that it seems to have started with WoW. WoW being based on Warcraft, which up 'til WoW were all single-player games (with optional multiplayer components) with a defined end. A finish line, if you will. And, like in many console MMOs, how quickly a player can complete a game seems to be a point of pride - playing a game is all about getting to the end. So... they bring what I call that "console mentality" into MMORPGs where there really *is* no end - or at least shouldn't be. But, boy do they do their best to shoe-horn one in anyway.
I say this because, frankly, in the few years I played MMOs before WoW took off, I never saw that mentality demonstrated, ever. People didn't worry about getting to the end-game. They worried about whatever their next short-term goal was. They worried about getting in game and having fun doing whatever they were doing.
You also never saw - or at least I never did - MMO hopping like you do now... This is a natural result of the "race to end game" mentality as well I think. They burn through the game, ignore most all the content (or "useless filler" as they call it, but I'll get to that) along the way, race through the end-game content, get bored, blame the devs for their own playstyle, and start looking to the next MMO so they can do it all again.
At the risk of sounding a bit presumptuous, perhaps - though I think it's an accurate observation - many who came to MMOs with WoW are still stuck in that "console mentality" where it's all about "beating the game". So, they start the game already wanting to "beat it". Since there is no real "win" condition for a MMO, they found a surrogate in the "End Game". Like playing a single player is all about "finishing it", so playing a MMO - to them - is all about "getting to end game".
I think it also plays into why many will argue that the low and mid levels are just worthless filler to milk the players. It goes hand-in-hand with the mentality that "it's all about the end game". This time I don't care if I sound arrogant because it's the truth: These people do not get what MMORPGs are about. It's like complaining that tabletop D&D requires character sheets because the DMs just want you to write a lot. The journey to the level cap is - or is at least supposed to be - part of the MMORPG experience.
The whole "phat lewt" thing comes into play as well. Loot is a great motivator it seems, and what better loot is there in a MMO than at the end game, with all the big bosses? The fun of the fight and the enjoyment of the adventure with other folks just aren't motivation enough, I guess. Nope... gotta have some bling to show off at the end or it's a waste of time. So... that becomes a motivator as well.
When you see people asking - before they've even started - what the level cap is, how quickly they can get there, what class is best for soloing, etc. etc... but ask nothing about the crafting systems, the world design, the storylines, the depth of the gameplay overall, the community, etc.... I think that says a lot.
It's self-defeating, to me, and unfortunate, because so many refuse to acknowledge that they are their own worst enemy. They hop from MMO to MMO to MMO, repeating the same process of racing through it, burning through the end-game, getting bored and moving on... never stopping to wonder why they can't seem to find one that keeps them satisfied. Meanwhile, others all around them in those same MMOs are taking their time, having a lot of fun, have no intention of leaving for another game and are saving a hell of a lot of money on box purchases in the process. Of course, when you mention that to many of the "end game or die" type, they'll spin it as those people simply being crappy players. It never occurs to them that maybe people simply have a different playstyle and enjoy the game enough to *not* want to rush through it. No no.. they're just "crappy players who don't know any better".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think the problem is that the endgame is simply better (in alot of cases). In wow for instance, the end game raids are sick and a lot of fun while the leveling is pretty boring in my opinion.
End-gamers are a plague.
I'm not talking about the folks who spend a lot of time as a community and reach end-game at some point, and spend lots of time there, because they justly earned it. No, I'm talking about the scum who devour everything given to them, take a shit, and demand more. You know who you are.
They've ruined everything I used to like about MMOs. I'm tired of hearing people complain back at me and tell me "It's what you make it." No, it isn't what I make it. These games used to be about an enormous welcoming community. A community of short-term goals who got online to share adventures. Journeying for literally years before ever seeing your first "Epic Monster", because everyone took their time. So it really *was* epic, in all regards.
Now, the journey sucks. Little effort is put into making the journey enjoyable and it tends to be so quick, unless you force yourself to take it slow.. being virtually alone because nobody else does, and it just sucks. You log-in for the first time and you can already see the straight path you're destined to take, with very little options.
The only game that is a little easier to take your time with these days, for me, was Lord of the Rings Online. It's pretty fun to just run around and meet people, maybe even do some RP, play some music, etc. Though.. it's getting bad now. Places are empty, nobody is concerned with the "filler material" and every player can be found farting about at the newest "end-game" zone. Turbines expansions are destroying what the game was originally about.
Everything is automated, everything is handed to you. Heaven forbid you have to wait for a single thing in any of these games. "Oh boy, if I have to wait, I'll quit and unsubscribe and play a different game." I wish companies would stop fucking around and make a unique game for once. I'm tired of the hype of a game for *years* only to see how much of a cookie-cutter piece of crap it is.
(You'll see in my sig that I'm currently playing Age of Conan, which I am now currently regretting. It is a prime example of everything I'm talking about. The whole game is deserted except for the Kheshetta entrance and /global chat where everyone recruits for raids. I tried to savor my "revisit" and make the best of it, but it's not happening. The entire game has quite unexpectedly devolved into a Guild Wars clone.)
Again, sometimes you need a contrast.
Would the game REALLY be as fun if you logged on day one and jumped right into the "end game"?
I think a lot of players THINK it would, but if they actually did that they wouldn't enjoy the end game as much.
I could be wrong, but I think it would lessen the enjoyment of the game as a whole.