How dare companies try and make money, especially in todays economy! Free to play should be just that! Not forced into buying things in an item mall! In all seriousness, if your poor, get a job. If you've got a job and are still poor, I think you need to logoff and examine your lives. Even YOU have the right to make money. This whole liberal QQ fest of wanting something for nothing is downright pathetic.
that is the single most simple-minded reply i've seen in this forum yet, and that's saying a whole lot.
the internet is such a great place for people such as these to express their opinions without getting physically laughed at.
The only Western F2P game I can think of that's even semi successful is DDO. They did a really good job from what I saw on the F2P model and it fits the game, but it failed as a P2P. There is also Dungeon Runners, but that was pure fail. Other than that, F2P with item shops work in Asian countries. Most of the F2P games are just language ports and the developers don't want to put the extra effort into making them P2P games. Aion is an exception, it's F2P in the East and P2P in the west. WoW is the same. It's P2P in the West, F2P in the East. F2P won't ever work in western games, imho. There will always been the desire for P2P.
Aion is pay per hour in east not free
Ouch!
I thought it was F2P like all the others. Kinda the same principle though, it's geared towards Cyber Cafe users.
for some people it would actually be cheaper than the 15 a month, think i paid $10 for 100 hours for Aion on the chinese servers and with work/RL stuff my time lasted me like 2 months.
but to the OP item shops are needed in F2P games thats how they make money. but item shops in a P2P game is a plain greedy money grab double dipping their customers. i won't play a game that charges me a monthly fee and on top of that charge me for ANY extra ingame items. they can charge extra for things like server transfers,name changes and stuff like that but they can get bent if they try to get more money out of me idc if they call them "fluff" or not it should be included in the $15 a month.
You may not like it but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. If there's a market for it, then it don't hurt you a darn bit to cater to that market. Just go find your game and quit worrying about the way that others like their games. Once developers are actually able to create top quality mmos to compete with wow, f2ps will be the last thing on your mind.
Something tells me your post is really a rant against rmt veiled with some cock and bull story about pride of game development, but obviously that's only my assumption.
Totally agree, but they will grow before they die out. We are currently under an assault from F2P games philosophy, based on the mistaken idea that F2P games are doing great financially. MMO’s exist in a corporate world where no one tells a competitor how much money they are making, but the illusion that all F2P games are doing well is being perpetuated by those with a self interest to do so.
A fusion like in DDO is possible but I am not sure that long term it will work, bottom line, we are safer without cash shops. Even ‘good’ cash shop games go bad, PW and Atlantica Online(?) are the two big titles that this most recently occurred to. You invest a huge amount of time in a game that seems to have a decent cash shop and then it changes in a pay-to-level cash shop. Your only safe option is not to join games with a cash shop.
The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread would be amazing if one wasn't used to listening to little kids on the internet QQing about shit they don't know about. Doesn't sound like there's even one econ major between the dozen of you fools here.
Giantsquid put it quite aptly. Also, just because a lot of companies are Doing It Wrong (i.e. abusing the concept by selling OP stuff or ignoring the balance between people who don't buy ingame items and those who do) doesn't invalidate the whole concept.
You guys act like playing an MMO is like a fucking marriage - pick one and then stick with it through thick and thin, defending it even when it does things wrong (fanboy). Invariably you feel like you have to piss all over other games clamoring for your attention. After all, you can't afford to sub 4-5 games at the same time can you? So obviously your choice must be right... right?
Pffft.
With f2p you're free to pick and choose, or heck even play multiple games at the same time. Or not play them, when the mood strikes. You can have like 10 games going on, this week you'd maybe play games 1,2,5 then next week you'd play 3 and 9, then maybe grind on game 4 for a whole month.
With subscriptions you're pretty much fucked. Not only have you already paid IN ADVANCE for an entire month's worth of play, if you don't play then you feel like you wasted your money. Not to mention things happen IRL which can prevent you from playing for a while. "Oh man I had finals this month, I have to study", "I really need to get this report done, it's a hundred-thou account", or crap like that.
But hey, who cares, it's daddy's credit card right?
I'll have to agree with the above poster despite how crudely it was worded (referring to Trucidation's post). The idealism is just amazing and sorry if some people here aren't used to the idea of capitalism yet. Hard to claim things shouldn't be this way or that way when you aren't even the ones making the decision, yet you are the ones that are on the other side of the gun. Its sad to see how more and more people seem to just want something for nothing. Sorry if you think that Free to Play games shouldn't have a store for the sake of the genre and MMORPG's around the world, I'll believe there might be some (particularly the ones that work hard on the games) who would like to be compensated a little for their hard work and much of their time devoted to their game, but who cares about those people right because its all about you isn't it, even the game is free? -_-
To me, the Item Shops are more a blessing than a curse because hey, now there's another model to accrue revenue and more and more companies are considering using a F2P model with an Item Shop rather than just pigeon-holing the whole genre into just subscriptions which would just be awful IMO since there are games out there that probably don't deserve the $15 per month. This also broadens the whole industry into catering to more than just people willing to fork over the residual revenue over to the gaming companies without too much question.
Again, this isn't JUST about you guys the customers (albeit customers are very important for any business), but the people working on the game have families to feed too and for some, this is a career, not a random hobby they come home to everyday and not because they love being taken advantage of. If you think companies with item shops are just in it for the money and nothing can convince you otherwise, then finally welcome to the real world, this isn't no MMORPG, vote with your wallets because that'll determine whether or not these games will continue with utilizing such things -_-
Just my 2 cents. Item malls are created to make money yes. But I believe it´s done instead of raising the monthly cost. Monthly fees has been the same for a long time and i´m thinking a higher monthly fee would push more people back then an item mall.
If you HAD to choose would you go for an item mall or an extra 5$ a month?
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread would be amazing if one wasn't used to listening to little kids on the internet QQing about shit they don't know about. Doesn't sound like there's even one econ major between the dozen of you fools here. Giantsquid put it quite aptly. Also, just because a lot of companies are Doing It Wrong (i.e. abusing the concept by selling OP stuff or ignoring the balance between people who don't buy ingame items and those who do) doesn't invalidate the whole concept. You guys act like playing an MMO is like a fucking marriage - pick one and then stick with it through thick and thin, defending it even when it does things wrong (fanboy). Invariably you feel like you have to piss all over other games clamoring for your attention. After all, you can't afford to sub 4-5 games at the same time can you? So obviously your choice must be right... right? Pffft. With f2p you're free to pick and choose, or heck even play multiple games at the same time. Or not play them, when the mood strikes. You can have like 10 games going on, this week you'd maybe play games 1,2,5 then next week you'd play 3 and 9, then maybe grind on game 4 for a whole month. With subscriptions you're pretty much fucked. Not only have you already paid IN ADVANCE for an entire month's worth of play, if you don't play then you feel like you wasted your money. Not to mention things happen IRL which can prevent you from playing for a while. "Oh man I had finals this month, I have to study", "I really need to get this report done, it's a hundred-thou account", or crap like that. But hey, who cares, it's daddy's credit card right?
I like the cut of your jib, mister.
What I find interesting is that most people here find speed/xp enhancing items are a scam, vanity items stupid, but see no error in nickel and diming for content drops in mini-expansion form. This only proves that the modern consumer just needs to be fed a line he hasn't seen through yet... maybe even someday there won't be an industry anymore because people are too prudent about their choice in games, to the point where everything demands a free trial and prolific speed of content addition to meet their grind-speed.
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Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
How dare companies try and make money, especially in todays economy! Free to play should be just that! Not forced into buying things in an item mall! In all seriousness, if your poor, get a job. If you've got a job and are still poor, I think you need to logoff and examine your lives. Even YOU have the right to make money. This whole liberal QQ fest of wanting something for nothing is downright pathetic.
I don't want something for nothing, I want game developers to take a look at themselves and change the mindset there current is with the F2P market, which honestly I don't play any of them. The whole concept of a F2P MMO was and should have never changed from a method for upstart devs to get their feet on the ground, it should never be a way to make any profit.
How many so called devs trying to get their feet on the ground with f2p have actually created a game that is still around, or is even somewhat entertaining to play?
Ofcourse it should be a way to make profit. Why should they have to deliver entertainment without getting paid for it?
Our views are vastly different, I look at the creation of a F2P MMO as a learning experience for the developers, their goal shouldn't be to make money but to make a game everyone enjoys. With this mindset when they do finally make a P2P game hopefully this mindset won't change. Making a game purely because you WANT to and ENJOY doing so is their reward, and it's a bonus of people actually play and enjoy it.
A perfect example is Runescape, it was completely free until the game became viable enough to merit a P2P version. I personally stopped liking the game after grade 10 or so... that was years ago. Either way the developers made a solid game, why? Because they enjoyed it and looked at it not from a business angle but from a hobby angle.
That's because I look at it from a realistic perspective.
MMORPGS are big project that cost a lot of money.There is absolutely no reason why they should not make profit off their work.
You can't make a game like Runes of Magic or Maple Story with 2 room mates in your spare time. On top of that, running an mmorpg costs a lot of money.
Runescape is a very poor example. The only reason it's still popular is because it's a browser game and people who simply don't know of any better free to play games play it. There are loads of item shop games that completely dwarf Runescape from a quality perspective.
You demand developers provide free entertainment and are not allowed to make profitable item shop games without actually providing any real argument as to why.
I also find it funny some people still think Item shop models aren't financially successful. Guess what: They are a huge success. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they aren't doing great. There is a good reason why they pop up all the time.
Item shops will always be popular. I"m sure there will be an endless stream of item shop games.
I don't like item shop games, and I don't play them, but if other people like to play them that's fine.
Bottom line, I don't think item shop games are fun. If you think they are fun, then shop to your hearts content.
I'll stick with P2P games, I think those are more fun.
14.95 is cheap to pay one time a month, and then forget about money for the rest of the game.
Someone posted, but with an item shop what if you don't play that month? Then you dont' lose any money!
If i'm not playing the game for a whole month, it's time to cancel my sub. I can always resub later, but chances are I will not. I'm not going to play a game like an MMORPG for a week here and there, not play for a couple of months, play for a couple of weeks, etc.
I'm either going to play it at least a few hours a week, or I'm done with it.
I find this thread, and all the "omg, companies are greedy !" thing.. incredible. It's almost if some players _demand_ that developers make games for fun only, and if they can feed their family, well that's good luck, a nice superflous extra !
Meanwhile, I wonder how many of them are posting on other forums about shops such as Walmarts making outrageous margins on food.. and the 1001 other companies that they pay every day without questions asked..
As a general rule I dislike F2P games because they are all based around item shops it seems. Now I know this is a payment model and one that is very popular in the Eastern market and thats all well and good. Its not an evil model of payment and you infact experiance it all the time. Goto eat out and you'll see it. Want a starter? Side with your meal? A beer too? All these are the "extras" that you dont actually need to enjoy the meal .. they are just optional extra's. (Bad example I'm sure people will rip appart but it serves my purpose of pointing out there are optional extra's everywhere) Personally I dont Item shops because I like the "Full experiance" up front and item shops tend to be incremental. DDO is an exception that I really DO like. It does have a Free part .. it has an item shop and it has a full subscription. I dont really care for the game but the payment model is great IMO because it prompts choice for the player. More choice is always a good thing. The current trend seems to be a sub + Item shop model which is hate with a passion. EQ2 does it, Champions Online does it and I see WoW heading in that direction too. (Yup its "only" vanity pets atm ... that will change though mark my words) I would accept the DDO model in any game I wanted to play, i think its great and allows players to buget thier game-price individually. The Cash shop + Sub games I avoid totally. Simple item shop games .. some I've played but they dont hold my interest long because they tend to be a money sink for me (I lack willpower and have to have it all sadly ) Over all I prefure to pay a straight sub .. which is why the DDO model still appeals to me because its an option there ... but i appreciate that some people like the consumer power of the item shops (to budget thier spending) so the DDO method strikes me as the best balance of the two. Double dippers can blow me. (Item shop + Sub)
er sorry to say this but this doesn't make any sense to me. The game doesn't give you teh full experience for free. You have to pay to level. Well that or grind a couple bajillion hours to attempt to get anything. Also you get "fluff" classes and "fluff" races. Ontop of that there's a few other things that you can only get by using the cash shop. So i don't really think ddo is truly a f2p game. It's a failed p2p game that went f2p with cash shop+p2p to try to survive since it wasn't up to snuff for p2pers to pay the bills.
I don't know what the big deal is with item malls. If you don't like them don't use them, or play a game that doesn't have one. If you like item shops, then more power to you.
I am currently playing EQ2. I havn't been playing for very long. For those that don't know it is P2P with an item mall. I don't buy any items from the mall and have no intention of ever buying something from the shop. I play the game like the item mall isn't in game. It doesn't bother me that other paople are using the mall. Not everyone has to play MMOs the same way that I do. +
Instead of telling us how hugely sucessful or how bad those cash shop mmo are doing can something please provide data supporting their claims? Talks are cheap you need to show real data for people to judge. Donald Trump always said he had lots and lots of money but then when he was busted he said "I lied but who didn't?"
To me f2p cash shop games will continue to come and go. They come for a couple of years, make some profits, get forgotten or shut down then get remade into similar games. Rinse and repeat. However, I think developers of such cash shop f2p are facing a serious problem of diminishing returns as more and more people rush to make crappy products just to realise some monetary gains in the first year or 2. There are still the similiar amount of fish in the ponds but just more and more fishermen. Eventually there will be no fish left and the fishermen have to go home.
On the other hand it is a mood point whether the p2p games are better, or how much better than then cash shop ones. I thing I definitely think is they don't worth $15 a month. As LoTRO tried out their $10 a month plan I think many dying p2p may consider the similiar kind of "promotional offers" soon.
The thing with DDO is that its very easy to earn money to buy good weapons and armor off brokers in the game or the auction. They sell +1 to +3 weapons and armor in the DDO Store. These are easily obtainable in game as quest rewards. They don't sell anything thats better then what you'd get normally from doing quests. Certain quests also reward favor / points that you can use in the DDO store.
Compare that to say Freerealms. You can buy fancy flaming weapons & armor that are better then anything you get from drops which can be used at level 1. It totally defeats the purpose of progression and makes the game quite boring and a grind.
I find this thread, and all the "omg, companies are greedy !" thing.. incredible. It's almost if some players _demand_ that developers make games for fun only, and if they can feed their family, well that's good luck, a nice superflous extra ! Meanwhile, I wonder how many of them are posting on other forums about shops such as Walmarts making outrageous margins on food.. and the 1001 other companies that they pay every day without questions asked.. You. Need. To. Revise. Your. Priorities.
And you need to quit telling people what they should like and what they shouldn't. I don't like item shop games because I feel after that point you no longer are playing a game. Instead what you have is a virtual store at that point. To me it goes against everything that PC rpg games are. Buying virtual items with real life cash removes you from the rpg world you are in into the real world which ruins immersion. Not only that buying items for cash is everything a PC rpg game isn't.
Items obtained in games are obtained through gameplay means. Why buy items? That isn't gaming that is playing dress up. Anyhow thanks for spewing out your garbage of a post and assuming you know why people don't want item shops. I would pay more of a sub fee before I played a game with an item shop. Yah poor devs can't feed their families, I think WoW has reported record profits and it added an item shop. They are really hurting.
Only we can determine how much a company can milk out of of us. I don't support item shops because I don't feel they belong in video games, I could care less what you think about it. I vote with my money.
If you can't deal with how these people try to pay their wages and keep the game going, then don't play. Too many people are content to jump on F2P out of being cheep... cheep enough to complain about what they get for free as being a disadvantage to those that pay. I admit some CS things are atrocious, namely the time limits on these items, but you people are absolutely jaded about something you get without paying a dime on.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I find this thread, and all the "omg, companies are greedy !" thing.. incredible. It's almost if some players _demand_ that developers make games for fun only, and if they can feed their family, well that's good luck, a nice superflous extra ! Meanwhile, I wonder how many of them are posting on other forums about shops such as Walmarts making outrageous margins on food.. and the 1001 other companies that they pay every day without questions asked.. You. Need. To. Revise. Your. Priorities.
And you need to quit telling people what they should like and what they shouldn't. I don't like item shop games because I feel after that point you no longer are playing a game. Instead what you have is a virtual store at that point. To me it goes against everything that PC rpg games are. Buying virtual items with real life cash removes you from the rpg world you are in into the real world which ruins immersion. Not only that buying items for cash is everything a PC rpg game isn't.
Items obtained in games are obtained through gameplay means. Why buy items? That isn't gaming that is playing dress up. Anyhow thanks for spewing out your garbage of a post and assuming you know why people don't want item shops. I would pay more of a sub fee before I played a game with an item shop. Yah poor devs can't feed their families, I think WoW has reported record profits and it added an item shop. They are really hurting.
Only we can determine how much a company can milk out of of us. I don't support item shops because I don't feel they belong in video games, I could care less what you think about it. I vote with my money.
Huh ? Where did I tell people what they're supposed to like or not ? Have you read my post at all ?
All I'm saying is that if you're going on a crusade against capitalism and companies greed, there are much better targets than a video game.
I never said that item shops were good, and I certainly never said that I knew why people wanted item shops. In fact, your reply makes no sense to me, to be honest..
I got an idea; quit playing F2P games. If you can't deal with how these people try to pay their wages and keep the game going, then don't play. Too many people are content to jump on F2P out of being cheep... cheep enough to complain about what they get for free as being a disadvantage to those that pay. I admit some CS things are atrocious, namely the time limits on these items, but you people are absolutely jaded about something you get without paying a dime on.
It's not just the F2P games, anymore.
That's the problem.
Champions online
Star Trek online
perhaps SWTOR
WoW, now.
Apparently, most of SOE's games have some form of cash shop.
It's an epidemic.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well I consider a CS on top of the standard sub fee insulting, but in the case of most of them being F2P and subsisting on CS funding, what is there to complain about?
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Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I am always bemused when people talk about F2P being wrong or evil. They developed in a different culture in response to different needs. Take Korea for example (only because of what I've observed there). The vast majority of gaming is done in PC bangs (literally PC rooms). There are even 'couple chairs' set up in some of the fancier PC rooms.
There are anumber of reasons for this.
In Korean culture teens and young adults usually do not socialize at home in fact the concept of a dinner party at home is pretty unusual, you would usually take someone out to dinner if you were entertaining friends.
Most adults live at home until they are married.
Koreans tend to do things in groups more so than in Western culture.
The second factor is Koreans go for 'cute' a lot more than Westerners do. Even the level of cute in my Korean friend's cars would be too much if I were not actually in Korea and knew the Korean love of 'cute'. This also extends to some gambling sites in Korea. GoStop is a popular gambling game in Korea and many popular sites allow you to buy items to dress up your avatar either from your winnings or through the item shop. (Because of Korean law you cannot gamble actual money but you are allowed to 'win prizes')
Now most P2P games require you to purchase the game and load it onto your computer, but if you're playing at a PC room that is not really an option . If you want to play something other than WOW and a select few other games, you might get lucky and the PC room will have your game of choice on the machines, if not your out of luck. Whereas for F2P games the computers are set up to enter game hubs for popular F2P games where you can start playing even without downloading the game. Korean broadband is fast enough to support this with no problem.
This is just a snapshot of what I have seen in Korea. This is the environment where many F2P games are developed. They will continue to be developed to meet the market. They are not a cynical plan aimed at your hard earned , they are catering to their desired market base and work well for MMO players in that ORIGINAL market.
etc,etc.Clearly their is market for those games.Do know what is the one complaint AoC and War.It is the game is dying and people are leaving.Item shops mmo solve the biggest problem for mmo.MMO are social machine the more people the more better off the game is.I guarantee if Vanguard was to go free to play it would be become one of top mmos on the market.Not ever mmo was meant to 14.99 a month.Item shops have their place.I will put this it this
What happens in the future if you to play ToR,Darkfall,WoW,EvE and DC online at the same time.It would be smart that some games go to free to play model of some sort.I know i can play Guild Wars,DDO,Atlanica and WOW at the same time. Companies need to realize you won't beat WoW,You won't beat a good star Wars game,You will not beat a good Final Fantasy game.So why compete against them?Why not use a model that lets you play their game and your game.Not once would i have even consider playing DDO with fee because they are games i like way better now that is free i will play it,If i like it enough i will spend some money.
DDO went from bottom middle of pack P2P game to the everybody second to play MMO.
Comments
that is the single most simple-minded reply i've seen in this forum yet, and that's saying a whole lot.
the internet is such a great place for people such as these to express their opinions without getting physically laughed at.
Aion is pay per hour in east not free
Ouch!
I thought it was F2P like all the others. Kinda the same principle though, it's geared towards Cyber Cafe users.
for some people it would actually be cheaper than the 15 a month, think i paid $10 for 100 hours for Aion on the chinese servers and with work/RL stuff my time lasted me like 2 months.
but to the OP item shops are needed in F2P games thats how they make money. but item shops in a P2P game is a plain greedy money grab double dipping their customers. i won't play a game that charges me a monthly fee and on top of that charge me for ANY extra ingame items. they can charge extra for things like server transfers,name changes and stuff like that but they can get bent if they try to get more money out of me idc if they call them "fluff" or not it should be included in the $15 a month.
You may not like it but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. If there's a market for it, then it don't hurt you a darn bit to cater to that market. Just go find your game and quit worrying about the way that others like their games. Once developers are actually able to create top quality mmos to compete with wow, f2ps will be the last thing on your mind.
Something tells me your post is really a rant against rmt veiled with some cock and bull story about pride of game development, but obviously that's only my assumption.
Totally agree, but they will grow before they die out. We are currently under an assault from F2P games philosophy, based on the mistaken idea that F2P games are doing great financially. MMO’s exist in a corporate world where no one tells a competitor how much money they are making, but the illusion that all F2P games are doing well is being perpetuated by those with a self interest to do so.
A fusion like in DDO is possible but I am not sure that long term it will work, bottom line, we are safer without cash shops. Even ‘good’ cash shop games go bad, PW and Atlantica Online(?) are the two big titles that this most recently occurred to. You invest a huge amount of time in a game that seems to have a decent cash shop and then it changes in a pay-to-level cash shop. Your only safe option is not to join games with a cash shop.
The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread would be amazing if one wasn't used to listening to little kids on the internet QQing about shit they don't know about. Doesn't sound like there's even one econ major between the dozen of you fools here.
Giantsquid put it quite aptly. Also, just because a lot of companies are Doing It Wrong (i.e. abusing the concept by selling OP stuff or ignoring the balance between people who don't buy ingame items and those who do) doesn't invalidate the whole concept.
You guys act like playing an MMO is like a fucking marriage - pick one and then stick with it through thick and thin, defending it even when it does things wrong (fanboy). Invariably you feel like you have to piss all over other games clamoring for your attention. After all, you can't afford to sub 4-5 games at the same time can you? So obviously your choice must be right... right?
Pffft.
With f2p you're free to pick and choose, or heck even play multiple games at the same time. Or not play them, when the mood strikes. You can have like 10 games going on, this week you'd maybe play games 1,2,5 then next week you'd play 3 and 9, then maybe grind on game 4 for a whole month.
With subscriptions you're pretty much fucked. Not only have you already paid IN ADVANCE for an entire month's worth of play, if you don't play then you feel like you wasted your money. Not to mention things happen IRL which can prevent you from playing for a while. "Oh man I had finals this month, I have to study", "I really need to get this report done, it's a hundred-thou account", or crap like that.
But hey, who cares, it's daddy's credit card right?
" In Defeat, Malice; In Victory, Revenge! "
I would'nt mind a game that had both P2P with item shop too. I would gladly pay for certain items ingame.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I'll have to agree with the above poster despite how crudely it was worded (referring to Trucidation's post). The idealism is just amazing and sorry if some people here aren't used to the idea of capitalism yet. Hard to claim things shouldn't be this way or that way when you aren't even the ones making the decision, yet you are the ones that are on the other side of the gun. Its sad to see how more and more people seem to just want something for nothing. Sorry if you think that Free to Play games shouldn't have a store for the sake of the genre and MMORPG's around the world, I'll believe there might be some (particularly the ones that work hard on the games) who would like to be compensated a little for their hard work and much of their time devoted to their game, but who cares about those people right because its all about you isn't it, even the game is free? -_-
To me, the Item Shops are more a blessing than a curse because hey, now there's another model to accrue revenue and more and more companies are considering using a F2P model with an Item Shop rather than just pigeon-holing the whole genre into just subscriptions which would just be awful IMO since there are games out there that probably don't deserve the $15 per month. This also broadens the whole industry into catering to more than just people willing to fork over the residual revenue over to the gaming companies without too much question.
Again, this isn't JUST about you guys the customers (albeit customers are very important for any business), but the people working on the game have families to feed too and for some, this is a career, not a random hobby they come home to everyday and not because they love being taken advantage of. If you think companies with item shops are just in it for the money and nothing can convince you otherwise, then finally welcome to the real world, this isn't no MMORPG, vote with your wallets because that'll determine whether or not these games will continue with utilizing such things -_-
Just my 2 cents. Item malls are created to make money yes. But I believe it´s done instead of raising the monthly cost. Monthly fees has been the same for a long time and i´m thinking a higher monthly fee would push more people back then an item mall.
If you HAD to choose would you go for an item mall or an extra 5$ a month?
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
I like the cut of your jib, mister.
What I find interesting is that most people here find speed/xp enhancing items are a scam, vanity items stupid, but see no error in nickel and diming for content drops in mini-expansion form. This only proves that the modern consumer just needs to be fed a line he hasn't seen through yet... maybe even someday there won't be an industry anymore because people are too prudent about their choice in games, to the point where everything demands a free trial and prolific speed of content addition to meet their grind-speed.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I don't want something for nothing, I want game developers to take a look at themselves and change the mindset there current is with the F2P market, which honestly I don't play any of them. The whole concept of a F2P MMO was and should have never changed from a method for upstart devs to get their feet on the ground, it should never be a way to make any profit.
How many so called devs trying to get their feet on the ground with f2p have actually created a game that is still around, or is even somewhat entertaining to play?
Ofcourse it should be a way to make profit. Why should they have to deliver entertainment without getting paid for it?
Our views are vastly different, I look at the creation of a F2P MMO as a learning experience for the developers, their goal shouldn't be to make money but to make a game everyone enjoys. With this mindset when they do finally make a P2P game hopefully this mindset won't change. Making a game purely because you WANT to and ENJOY doing so is their reward, and it's a bonus of people actually play and enjoy it.
A perfect example is Runescape, it was completely free until the game became viable enough to merit a P2P version. I personally stopped liking the game after grade 10 or so... that was years ago. Either way the developers made a solid game, why? Because they enjoyed it and looked at it not from a business angle but from a hobby angle.
That's because I look at it from a realistic perspective.
MMORPGS are big project that cost a lot of money.There is absolutely no reason why they should not make profit off their work.
You can't make a game like Runes of Magic or Maple Story with 2 room mates in your spare time. On top of that, running an mmorpg costs a lot of money.
Runescape is a very poor example. The only reason it's still popular is because it's a browser game and people who simply don't know of any better free to play games play it. There are loads of item shop games that completely dwarf Runescape from a quality perspective.
You demand developers provide free entertainment and are not allowed to make profitable item shop games without actually providing any real argument as to why.
I also find it funny some people still think Item shop models aren't financially successful. Guess what: They are a huge success. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they aren't doing great. There is a good reason why they pop up all the time.
Item shops will always be popular. I"m sure there will be an endless stream of item shop games.
I don't like item shop games, and I don't play them, but if other people like to play them that's fine.
Bottom line, I don't think item shop games are fun. If you think they are fun, then shop to your hearts content.
I'll stick with P2P games, I think those are more fun.
14.95 is cheap to pay one time a month, and then forget about money for the rest of the game.
Someone posted, but with an item shop what if you don't play that month? Then you dont' lose any money!
If i'm not playing the game for a whole month, it's time to cancel my sub. I can always resub later, but chances are I will not. I'm not going to play a game like an MMORPG for a week here and there, not play for a couple of months, play for a couple of weeks, etc.
I'm either going to play it at least a few hours a week, or I'm done with it.
I find this thread, and all the "omg, companies are greedy !" thing.. incredible. It's almost if some players _demand_ that developers make games for fun only, and if they can feed their family, well that's good luck, a nice superflous extra !
Meanwhile, I wonder how many of them are posting on other forums about shops such as Walmarts making outrageous margins on food.. and the 1001 other companies that they pay every day without questions asked..
You. Need. To. Revise. Your. Priorities.
Infinity: The Quest for Earth, space-sim MMO with a seamless procedural galaxy.
er sorry to say this but this doesn't make any sense to me. The game doesn't give you teh full experience for free. You have to pay to level. Well that or grind a couple bajillion hours to attempt to get anything. Also you get "fluff" classes and "fluff" races. Ontop of that there's a few other things that you can only get by using the cash shop. So i don't really think ddo is truly a f2p game. It's a failed p2p game that went f2p with cash shop+p2p to try to survive since it wasn't up to snuff for p2pers to pay the bills.
I don't know what the big deal is with item malls. If you don't like them don't use them, or play a game that doesn't have one. If you like item shops, then more power to you.
I am currently playing EQ2. I havn't been playing for very long. For those that don't know it is P2P with an item mall. I don't buy any items from the mall and have no intention of ever buying something from the shop. I play the game like the item mall isn't in game. It doesn't bother me that other paople are using the mall. Not everyone has to play MMOs the same way that I do. +
Instead of telling us how hugely sucessful or how bad those cash shop mmo are doing can something please provide data supporting their claims? Talks are cheap you need to show real data for people to judge. Donald Trump always said he had lots and lots of money but then when he was busted he said "I lied but who didn't?"
To me f2p cash shop games will continue to come and go. They come for a couple of years, make some profits, get forgotten or shut down then get remade into similar games. Rinse and repeat. However, I think developers of such cash shop f2p are facing a serious problem of diminishing returns as more and more people rush to make crappy products just to realise some monetary gains in the first year or 2. There are still the similiar amount of fish in the ponds but just more and more fishermen. Eventually there will be no fish left and the fishermen have to go home.
On the other hand it is a mood point whether the p2p games are better, or how much better than then cash shop ones. I thing I definitely think is they don't worth $15 a month. As LoTRO tried out their $10 a month plan I think many dying p2p may consider the similiar kind of "promotional offers" soon.
The thing with DDO is that its very easy to earn money to buy good weapons and armor off brokers in the game or the auction. They sell +1 to +3 weapons and armor in the DDO Store. These are easily obtainable in game as quest rewards. They don't sell anything thats better then what you'd get normally from doing quests. Certain quests also reward favor / points that you can use in the DDO store.
Compare that to say Freerealms. You can buy fancy flaming weapons & armor that are better then anything you get from drops which can be used at level 1. It totally defeats the purpose of progression and makes the game quite boring and a grind.
And you need to quit telling people what they should like and what they shouldn't. I don't like item shop games because I feel after that point you no longer are playing a game. Instead what you have is a virtual store at that point. To me it goes against everything that PC rpg games are. Buying virtual items with real life cash removes you from the rpg world you are in into the real world which ruins immersion. Not only that buying items for cash is everything a PC rpg game isn't.
Items obtained in games are obtained through gameplay means. Why buy items? That isn't gaming that is playing dress up. Anyhow thanks for spewing out your garbage of a post and assuming you know why people don't want item shops. I would pay more of a sub fee before I played a game with an item shop. Yah poor devs can't feed their families, I think WoW has reported record profits and it added an item shop. They are really hurting.
Only we can determine how much a company can milk out of of us. I don't support item shops because I don't feel they belong in video games, I could care less what you think about it. I vote with my money.
I got an idea; quit playing F2P games.
If you can't deal with how these people try to pay their wages and keep the game going, then don't play. Too many people are content to jump on F2P out of being cheep... cheep enough to complain about what they get for free as being a disadvantage to those that pay. I admit some CS things are atrocious, namely the time limits on these items, but you people are absolutely jaded about something you get without paying a dime on.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
yes kids say no to cash shops
Oh and Just say no to Blow!
LOL! Honestly I;ve never seen a cash shop mmo that wasn't totally thrown out of balanced by it.
So yeah they suck.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Cash Shops need to die.
Dont need to waste words on arguments, just bump the thread so atleast the title is read.
The effect adds up overtime.
And you need to quit telling people what they should like and what they shouldn't. I don't like item shop games because I feel after that point you no longer are playing a game. Instead what you have is a virtual store at that point. To me it goes against everything that PC rpg games are. Buying virtual items with real life cash removes you from the rpg world you are in into the real world which ruins immersion. Not only that buying items for cash is everything a PC rpg game isn't.
Items obtained in games are obtained through gameplay means. Why buy items? That isn't gaming that is playing dress up. Anyhow thanks for spewing out your garbage of a post and assuming you know why people don't want item shops. I would pay more of a sub fee before I played a game with an item shop. Yah poor devs can't feed their families, I think WoW has reported record profits and it added an item shop. They are really hurting.
Only we can determine how much a company can milk out of of us. I don't support item shops because I don't feel they belong in video games, I could care less what you think about it. I vote with my money.
Huh ? Where did I tell people what they're supposed to like or not ? Have you read my post at all ?
All I'm saying is that if you're going on a crusade against capitalism and companies greed, there are much better targets than a video game.
I never said that item shops were good, and I certainly never said that I knew why people wanted item shops. In fact, your reply makes no sense to me, to be honest..
Infinity: The Quest for Earth, space-sim MMO with a seamless procedural galaxy.
It's not just the F2P games, anymore.
That's the problem.
Champions online
Star Trek online
perhaps SWTOR
WoW, now.
Apparently, most of SOE's games have some form of cash shop.
It's an epidemic.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well I consider a CS on top of the standard sub fee insulting, but in the case of most of them being F2P and subsisting on CS funding, what is there to complain about?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I am always bemused when people talk about F2P being wrong or evil. They developed in a different culture in response to different needs. Take Korea for example (only because of what I've observed there). The vast majority of gaming is done in PC bangs (literally PC rooms). There are even 'couple chairs' set up in some of the fancier PC rooms.
There are anumber of reasons for this.
In Korean culture teens and young adults usually do not socialize at home in fact the concept of a dinner party at home is pretty unusual, you would usually take someone out to dinner if you were entertaining friends.
Most adults live at home until they are married.
Koreans tend to do things in groups more so than in Western culture.
The second factor is Koreans go for 'cute' a lot more than Westerners do. Even the level of cute in my Korean friend's cars would be too much if I were not actually in Korea and knew the Korean love of 'cute'. This also extends to some gambling sites in Korea. GoStop is a popular gambling game in Korea and many popular sites allow you to buy items to dress up your avatar either from your winnings or through the item shop. (Because of Korean law you cannot gamble actual money but you are allowed to 'win prizes')
Now most P2P games require you to purchase the game and load it onto your computer, but if you're playing at a PC room that is not really an option . If you want to play something other than WOW and a select few other games, you might get lucky and the PC room will have your game of choice on the machines, if not your out of luck. Whereas for F2P games the computers are set up to enter game hubs for popular F2P games where you can start playing even without downloading the game. Korean broadband is fast enough to support this with no problem.
This is just a snapshot of what I have seen in Korea. This is the environment where many F2P games are developed. They will continue to be developed to meet the market. They are not a cynical plan aimed at your hard earned , they are catering to their desired market base and work well for MMO players in that ORIGINAL market.
Runes of Magic 2.5 million Subs
Peefect World supposely 30 million Subs
Runescape 5 million active users
Guild Wars- 2 million active users
etc,etc.Clearly their is market for those games.Do know what is the one complaint AoC and War.It is the game is dying and people are leaving.Item shops mmo solve the biggest problem for mmo.MMO are social machine the more people the more better off the game is.I guarantee if Vanguard was to go free to play it would be become one of top mmos on the market.Not ever mmo was meant to 14.99 a month.Item shops have their place.I will put this it this
What happens in the future if you to play ToR,Darkfall,WoW,EvE and DC online at the same time.It would be smart that some games go to free to play model of some sort.I know i can play Guild Wars,DDO,Atlanica and WOW at the same time. Companies need to realize you won't beat WoW,You won't beat a good star Wars game,You will not beat a good Final Fantasy game.So why compete against them?Why not use a model that lets you play their game and your game.Not once would i have even consider playing DDO with fee because they are games i like way better now that is free i will play it,If i like it enough i will spend some money.
DDO went from bottom middle of pack P2P game to the everybody second to play MMO.