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The Problem with FPS combat in MMO's
Drezeks
Member Posts: 51
I think the fundamental problem with implementing FPS combat into MMO's is that it is boring...for PVE. This could be just me, but after playing Fallen Earth for several hours, I couldn't stand killing chickens again with my auto-attack. Sure I had a few abilities, but I was getting minimal satisfaction from killing enemies.
Obviously integrating FPS into MMO's still needs to go a long way before they become on-par with other real FPS games. I don't think there is recognition where shots land yet in any MMO, although I could be mistaken. Also, I think the FPS combat in MMO's works well to create exciting PVP combat, although I think its done better in pure FPS games.
But ultimately, do you guys think FPS combat is fun/has been fun for PVE in these games?
Comments
If done right, yes, it can be fun for PvE. Aiming heal attacks on your allies, aiming debuffs, blocking monsters in with your body and not some taunt style, dodging attacks. All very fun, if done right.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I can agree with that. I feel as if Oblivion combat is what your thinking of, based on your response, which obviously to a majority of people had fun combat for PVE. However, as of whats been released I feel as if PVE combat has been the largest problem with FPS MMOs?
But you would love to kill those chickens with buttonsmashing ?
Generation P
The biggest problem with it is that due to latency, FPS isn't going to behave the way it does on your PC or on a LAN...the feel of it won't be exactly the same. So MMOs have a turn based system to compensate for that, which can come close to simulating the FPS experience but won't replicate it...and most players can detect the difference.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
But you would love to kill those chickens with buttonsmashing ?
I find it very tedious to click my auto-attack. I'm not going to miss someone in PVE, I'd rather it manually shoot for me.
If Borderlands was more MMO than Co-op, it would be the best
Darkfall has respectable FPS controls and interaction. Of course I have like a 10ping to the US server. On EU it could get a little laggy.
Still, doesnt FPS limit the Spells and Ablities we can have?
Like could FPS work in a revamped WoW Class system without getting rid of most of the spells in the game?
FE has auto-attack?
Overall I do agree, FP view and combat arn't near what it is in regular FPS games.
But I don't see it as a problem with a genre this young. I see it as something evolving......but it takes time.....
Remember the first wave of 3d FPS games, now look at them......
After playing in couple games with no auto-aim I fall in love with it. No more nonsense F1,F2,F3 x1000 times. Even grinding is more fun since you can actually miss while doing it half asleep.
I will never again play mmorpgs with autoaim. Even FE have too much of it (mutations). I prefer DF way when even spells have to be targeted. This with addition of friendly fire makes games a lot more fun.
Wow, thanks for sharing this info, never knew ALL abilities where auto-attack, I must be playing a totaly different Fallen Earth
Um.. Isn't auto attack when you have something targeted then you click attack and it attacks all by its self? I think people are confused what Auto Attack really is. My gun and my abilities I have in FE don't do that. For my muts, things need to be targeted then I press a key and it does the ability My rifle abilities like puncture I have to shoot my gun and hit the target for it to work. Abilities like smash, pistol whip and such are the same.
I guess this game just isn't for the OP, but to me its better than the normal Auto Attack games like most of them on the market. Aiming for the head to do more dmg is nice, clicking the mouse to attack is nice.
I hate FPS combat in MMORPGs very much.
Beside that i played Oblivion and Morrowind i only play caster or ranger in such games as melee combat is unrealistic and dumb slicing air on mouseclicks.
The full depth of different atacks can only reached with the traditional combat system.
Combat in AoC is much fun and it is not FPS combat, it is fast and responsive and some like even the combosystem.
To HELL with FPS combat in MMORPGs - its for shooters only...
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Your problem isn't with FPS rather it is with the opponent you are up against. Fighting chickens for several hours in ANY game is going to be boring. Is your problem with the lack of a locked target? You didn't quite describe what about first person you didn't like.
"I don't think there is recognition where shots land yet in any MMO, although I could be mistaken."
Imagine that chicken had a shield and spears, and your arrows are bouncing off that shield left and right, so you're trying to get around behind that chicken to hit where the shield isn't protecting it. The problem is those damn spears that it's chucking HURT, especially at close range, so you're weaving left and right to keep from getting impaled, dodging each spear he throws. You need a breather to heal and reload, so you duck behind a rock. You know that chicken is vulnerable to fire, especially in the chest, so you ready a fire arrow, heal up real quick, and come out charging. You run straight at the chicken and at the last minute, leap in the air, over it, spin around, aim for the middle of that bird with your most accurate shot possible... and fire that final fatal flaming shot into its back before it can turn around.
Asheron's Call.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
One of my favourite moves in DDO that, especially with minotaurs, wait until they are mid charge softening them up with arrows and then leap at the right point so you just clear them (clip them and you go flying), turn as feather falling boots kick in and a multi-shot sends them sliding dead across the floor.
A lot of difference between twitch and FPS though, I personally find FPS pretty dull generally, twitch I do enjoy however as long as what you can do is governed by your stats. No minotaur jumping unless you spent those points in the jump ability, everything has to have a cost.
Left 4 Dead is solidly fun cooperative gameplay, which is essentially PVE.
The lack of fun of FPS-aiming MMORPGs is therefore the fault of the game mechanics.
World PVE is the biggest challenge. World PVE is like a 25% reduction to your game's fun factor regardless of your combat system, because the gameplay has to be designed in a way that accepts any number of players.
Much of the reason games are fun is because of interesting decisions. In Instanced PVE, game designers are empowered to tightly craft the player's gameplay experience to provide a constant flow of interesting decisions. In World PVE, it's far harder (not impossible, but you're basically given a pickaxe and told that you have to perform heart surgery with it.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
OP why fps combat? you could just say hack and slash if you mean for the combat and not the view.
Many don't like first person views so you could see a bit of problem there (whining) but for me I don't care much till the fight doesn't take a year specially if it is hack and slash.
IMO a game with the battle system like devil may cry would rock and maybe with tera,dragon nest and prob others we can maybe have something similar :P
Wow, thanks for sharing this info, never knew ALL abilities where auto-attack, I must be playing a totaly different Fallen Earth
My bad. All mutations are auto-aim and SOME of the abilities. Anyway, I would prefer all to be manually targeted.
Very timely made topic! I'm so tired from all those MMORPG with FPS combat that've flooded the market...
I personally prefer FPS combat to the typical MMORPG one. Whenever I play one of the typical MMORPGs, I very quickly start doing other stuff while fighting, like watching TV or something, because there is not much to pay attention on during fights. It's nearly impossible to die outside of a bossfight, if your char looks roughly in the same direction there is no need to aim either, and once you found a strategy that works there is no reason to change that either.
It's just walk, push the same buttons for your attack sequence, walk, push the same buttons for your attack sequence, etcetc. I prefer having to actually aim at my enemies, trying to deliver headshots or whatnot.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
~2 games out of 1000s is "flooding"?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It wasn't exactly first person (at least until the end), but Tabula Rasa's shooting was very fun. Much better than Fallen Earth IMO. It can work fine in a MMOG, it just hasn't been done on a level that can make it into a mainstream success. It will happen though, its just a matter of time.
In FE's defense, the shooting is a smaller portion of the game. Where in most MMOG's you'll spend 75% or more time in combat, in FE you're spending the vast majority of your time collecting, crafting, exploring, traveling, etc. Its strange, but you spend most of your time ensuring that you can spend as little time as possible actually fighting.
~2 games out of 1000s is "flooding"?
If you're reading what they are probably meaning, I would guess they mean games with manual aiming. That makes up a pretty big portion of the genre. DDO, TCoS, TR, FE, AC, AoC, Darkfall, MO and maybe a few others I haven't played. Not huge, but there are quite a few.
FPS Ranged combat in MMORPGs is not the problem. Its fine.
Its the boring and terrible Melee FPS
Click animation 1, click animation 2, click animation 3, click animation 1 and so on.
You can't do Melee in the First Person, you can do it in Third Person but it needs more love than 3 or so attack animation repeating in the same pattern.
You need a combo system like from Jedi Knight II onwards atleast.