Can't help but notice that this heavily, heavily instanced game is actually a cleverly designed single-player game with lobbies. Well...thats at least my take. Is STO really going to make a go at it as a $15/month single-player experience?
Sure why not? First off not everyone needs hundreds of players (kill stealers, gold farmers, spammers, mailbox dancers etc) in the same spot to have fun. Really if i can play with a group of my friends I'm happy.
Second most single players games cost 45-60 dollars. So if i get 3-4 months fun out of STO for my 45-60 dollar investment then i'm way ahead compared to most signle player games (Dragon Age a recent $60 investment was good for about 2 months with more then one play through)
if you need a space game with thousands online with no instances EvE is already out. Sometimes different is good. no it won't make everyone happy but i'll reserve judgement till i actually play the game. Personally i don't need 100 starships all parked at the same starbase, or multiple roving bands of away teams running back and forth through my mission to have fun. Wonder what Kirk would have done if he beamed down to a planet only to find 5 other away teams from 5 other federation ships circling the planet also camping his quest mob? :P
Time will tell, i wish Cryptic well on this one. A failure helps no one, and while many will say STO is no good (No MMO has ever survived without some haters) The simple truth is you can't please everyeone
Awesome post I loved this!!!
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I like the solo play especially for leveling in mmo's, I work 9-6/7/8. I don't have the convenience of having to wait 30 mins to an hour to start a group all the time. But from what i've seen you can group a lot if you like, they just don't force you which is nice. I really don't know where all these elitist on these forums came from. Where everything in an mmo has to be group play, its just unrealistic for casuals. When I look at an mmo I see choices, not everyone has to do the exact same thing.
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry I have a busy life and I really do not have much time on my hands these days . So if you possibly can, plases make STO soloable just for me.
Thank You,
SaintV
On the flip side..
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry that I have no life and all the free time in the world to play games. So if you possibly can, please make STO a forced grouping aspec just for me and the other small percent of gamers who enjoy a second life in video games.
I like the solo play especially for leveling in mmo's, I work 9-6/7/8. I don't have the convenience of having to wait 30 mins to an hour to start a group all the time. But from what i've seen you can group a lot if you like, they just don't force you which is nice. I really don't know where all these elitist on these forums came from. Where everything in an mmo has to be group play, its just unrealistic for casuals. When I look at an mmo I see choices, not everyone has to do the exact same thing.
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry I have a busy life and I really do not have much time on my hands these days . So if you possibly can, plases make STO soloable just for me.
Thank You,
SaintV
On the flip side..
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry that I have no life and all the free time in the world to play games. So if you possibly can, please make STO a forced grouping aspec just for me and the other small percent of gamers who enjoy a second life in video games.
Thank you
The point is that you can't cater to everyone. Is it our fault that some people are too busy to play grouped mmo games ? No it is not. Noone said life was fair and life does not cater to everyone either so why should it apply here. It also has nothing to do with people having a solcial life or not so take that nonsese elsewhere because insinuating those who like playing grouped mmo games have no life is idiotic.
I truely hope future mmorpg's don't turn completely instanced or lobby'd. I fell in love with the genre back in the UO and EQ days because of the ability to solo OR group in an ever evolving world. I can handle instanced missions, I think AO and WoW had an interesting idea that works. But the bigger chunk should be...well...a world. A fully seamless world at that. If my family and I go to the mall, we don't get an instanced version of the mall, or wait in the main entrance then pick a store we privately go in together. Humans are social creatures, and I think thats why MMO's are so popular. Just my two cents.
-edit-
Just wanted to hit on a previous comment that someone mentioned about 30+ minutes for a group. That was a thing of the past I think, I definetly have been there and ran into that on several occasions for the past 10 years. HOWEVER I do want to mention *shields head* that WoW implemented a cross realm grouping system that is extremely effective and the most useful group tool I've ever seen. I will willingly admit I reactivated my accont because of it and I think other companies may want to see what went right with it. I play mmo's sparigly because of my work/family life, and this system is awsome. I press "I am dps, healer, or tank" and bam, I got a full group and am teleported to the dungeon. *Gets our fire extinguisher*
So instances = singleplayer game? I think instances can be used as a good thing, but shouldn't be the entire game. I mean what's so fun about camping out in one area for a half hour waiting for something to respawn?
Dear Cryptic, Epic Fail, canceled pre-orders. We are waiting for the real MMO, SWTOR.
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
Dear Cryptic, Epic Fail, canceled pre-orders. We are waiting for the real MMO, SWTOR.
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
My coworkers at the office honestly think SWTOR is going to be the greatest mmo ever, and none of us are Starwars fans. Its Bioware. Like, dude, Bioware. I mean damn I'm old but I still can play Bulders Gate. They are a industry leader is rpg's, just as Blizzard was with strategy games. I can't freaking wait, nor can my network of associates/friends. *Begins slapping viens for needle*
Personally I'm not really concerned with the leveling experience; I soloed WOW's leveling and the guild was little more than a chat box. What's going to make or break the game is the endgame experience.
Unique innovative raid dungeons, requiring perhaps to go down and do away missions too. Maybe have to strategize on one half of the team on the planet and the other half in space.
the little bit of this we've heard so far with respect to Fleet actions sounds pretty cool. Fighting crystaline entities, huge klingon fleets and even the planet killer sounds epic. If they can come up with some cool ways to endgame raid, the game could be pretty cool.
My point was that this game will cater to group play and solo play, forcing people to play only one style is just ridiculous in this day and age. IMO WoW did it the best, you can level solo and play for an hour, or you can do instances/group quests together. I know WoW is kinda taboo on this website especially but its the truth.
I didn't say group play is for people with no lives, I merely pointed out that its nice to have an option to do whatever you'd like depending on what your playstyle is.
I really hope most of the people that are already complaining about this game don't buy it, and just shut up in general. If you don't want to pay 15 bucks a month DON'T.
i like that you have a choice to either group or solo, I don't know where all these people trolling these forums nowadays thinking a mmo has to be group play the whole way through. I'm not against group play at all, I like to have a choice.
I honestly can't stand games where you have to wait around for an hour + to find a tank/healer its such a redundant mmo idea that i'd like to see people go outside the box.
Bioware is doing the same thing with SWTOR so it must work somehow. Actually the whole thing goes back quite a ways. Leveling up in most MMOs has been a single player experience. Even WOW fans will say "you've not actually played the group content till you've maxed out." So companies are starting to focus on trying to make the singleplayer leveling experience as unique and enjoyable and immersive as possible because few, if any, players actually group level.
I agree with deadeye, my first mmo was not WoW but I do like the idea of being able to solo to max level and deal with grouping. Is just less painful then the old days of eq/ heck even aion nows getting on my nerves with all the grouping after 40, is just kind of annoying. End game get a guild run big pvp matches and instances, every game needs a way to solo from point A to point B without being forced to group. Leveling is fun but for some people not everyone as long as the game isn't a grind fest I will be happy.
I also play when friends are online and do stuff with them. Most of my friends will solo to top level first then its time to have some fun!
Dear Cryptic, Epic Fail, canceled pre-orders. We are waiting for the real MMO, SWTOR.
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
My coworkers at the office honestly think SWTOR is going to be the greatest mmo ever, and none of us are Starwars fans. Its Bioware. Like, dude, Bioware. I mean damn I'm old but I still can play Bulders Gate. They are a industry leader is rpg's, just as Blizzard was with strategy games. I can't freaking wait, nor can my network of associates/friends. *Begins slapping viens for needle*
Oh wait, you like to group with your friends ? Then you must not have a life! That is just bad bad bad lol.
Dear Cryptic, Epic Fail, canceled pre-orders. We are waiting for the real MMO, SWTOR.
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
If TOR comes out in 2010, it will have 4 years of development time (oh, and it has missions in space, though they haven't announced if you can pilot your own ship or not since Bioware doesn't announce things unless they are happy with how they work. Also, comparing to WoW is silly since they don't use the Tank-Healer-DPS mechanic and the game is strongly story-based). STO is going to have about 2. Honestly, I can't think of an MMO that took 3 years to make that came off well at launch, so I am rather surprised that so many people are excited by a game with such a ridiculously slow dev cycle.
Thought I'd add this from the recent Beta Info article: "When I first warped into a new system for this mission chain, I was given a choice. I could enter the system solo or with a group. I almost chose solo, but stuck with the group instead. Some people left and others were added in but I finished my mission in no time. This kind of reminded me of Warhammer Online's public quests. Overall, I was impressed with how easily the grouping flowed." That, plus open missions and stuff like group pvp make me think it will be quite easy to get group content going.
Sure, you could group in CO as well. But no one did because there was little benefit for it. Same will probably be true in STO.
Originally posted by ktanner3 This is pretty much my attitude. I can't see how anyone can say with a straight face that a game is immersive when you have to wait in line for a boss to respawn. Add in the shenanigans(kill stealing, camping,farming etc.) that comes with those high level bosses and people wonder why more and more people prefer solo play.
Acknowledging that instancing has its place and uses doesn't justify a game being HEAVILY instanced. I don't know if it applies to STO (we'll see after launch) but a game can be too instanced.
I like the solo play especially for leveling in mmo's, I work 9-6/7/8. I don't have the convenience of having to wait 30 mins to an hour to start a group all the time. But from what i've seen you can group a lot if you like, they just don't force you which is nice. I really don't know where all these elitist on these forums came from. Where everything in an mmo has to be group play, its just unrealistic for casuals. When I look at an mmo I see choices, not everyone has to do the exact same thing.
Wow really? Can't say that I've ever met that elitist. In any game.
Look at games like LOTR and Guild Wars. The group content became more like a chore because it was so hard to find teams. Character progression takes back seat when leveling is depended heavily on group content. In such a case you have no choice but to skip the team missions and continue leveling with help of solo missions + mob grinding.
Guild Wars solved this problem by introducing henchmen and heroes. Community cried river and devs were forced to go easy on group content. However in LOTR the problem still persists. Many times i am told in LOTR to just skip the team missions. So i skip it because its damn hard to find anyone to group with.
You guys tell me (those who advocate forced grouping). Where is the fun in spamming LFG channel or skipping half of the content because no body wants to team up with you?
In my opinion group content should be only at end game. The level progressions should be fun and less frustrating, hence the need for solo missions. For all those people who are against solo players i admire the sentiment but lets be honest, how many times do you guys go out of your way or leave what you are doing just to help someone who has been spamming LFG channel for past 20 minutes? lets be honest ok?
Comments
Sure why not? First off not everyone needs hundreds of players (kill stealers, gold farmers, spammers, mailbox dancers etc) in the same spot to have fun. Really if i can play with a group of my friends I'm happy.
Second most single players games cost 45-60 dollars. So if i get 3-4 months fun out of STO for my 45-60 dollar investment then i'm way ahead compared to most signle player games (Dragon Age a recent $60 investment was good for about 2 months with more then one play through)
if you need a space game with thousands online with no instances EvE is already out. Sometimes different is good. no it won't make everyone happy but i'll reserve judgement till i actually play the game. Personally i don't need 100 starships all parked at the same starbase, or multiple roving bands of away teams running back and forth through my mission to have fun. Wonder what Kirk would have done if he beamed down to a planet only to find 5 other away teams from 5 other federation ships circling the planet also camping his quest mob? :P
Time will tell, i wish Cryptic well on this one. A failure helps no one, and while many will say STO is no good (No MMO has ever survived without some haters) The simple truth is you can't please everyeone
Awesome post I loved this!!!
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think this is gonna be Guild Wars in space.
...oh nm, Guild Wars doesnt have a monthly fee, but it does have all the instancing you can stomach
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry I have a busy life and I really do not have much time on my hands these days . So if you possibly can, plases make STO soloable just for me.
Thank You,
SaintV
On the flip side..
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry that I have no life and all the free time in the world to play games. So if you possibly can, please make STO a forced grouping aspec just for me and the other small percent of gamers who enjoy a second life in video games.
Thank you
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Dear Cryptic,
Epic Fail, canceled pre-orders. We are waiting for the real MMO, SWTOR.
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry I have a busy life and I really do not have much time on my hands these days . So if you possibly can, plases make STO soloable just for me.
Thank You,
SaintV
On the flip side..
Dear Cryptic,
I am sorry that I have no life and all the free time in the world to play games. So if you possibly can, please make STO a forced grouping aspec just for me and the other small percent of gamers who enjoy a second life in video games.
Thank you
The point is that you can't cater to everyone. Is it our fault that some people are too busy to play grouped mmo games ? No it is not. Noone said life was fair and life does not cater to everyone either so why should it apply here. It also has nothing to do with people having a solcial life or not so take that nonsese elsewhere because insinuating those who like playing grouped mmo games have no life is idiotic.
I truely hope future mmorpg's don't turn completely instanced or lobby'd. I fell in love with the genre back in the UO and EQ days because of the ability to solo OR group in an ever evolving world. I can handle instanced missions, I think AO and WoW had an interesting idea that works. But the bigger chunk should be...well...a world. A fully seamless world at that. If my family and I go to the mall, we don't get an instanced version of the mall, or wait in the main entrance then pick a store we privately go in together. Humans are social creatures, and I think thats why MMO's are so popular. Just my two cents.
-edit-
Just wanted to hit on a previous comment that someone mentioned about 30+ minutes for a group. That was a thing of the past I think, I definetly have been there and ran into that on several occasions for the past 10 years. HOWEVER I do want to mention *shields head* that WoW implemented a cross realm grouping system that is extremely effective and the most useful group tool I've ever seen. I will willingly admit I reactivated my accont because of it and I think other companies may want to see what went right with it. I play mmo's sparigly because of my work/family life, and this system is awsome. I press "I am dps, healer, or tank" and bam, I got a full group and am teleported to the dungeon. *Gets our fire extinguisher*
So instances = singleplayer game? I think instances can be used as a good thing, but shouldn't be the entire game. I mean what's so fun about camping out in one area for a half hour waiting for something to respawn?
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
My coworkers at the office honestly think SWTOR is going to be the greatest mmo ever, and none of us are Starwars fans. Its Bioware. Like, dude, Bioware. I mean damn I'm old but I still can play Bulders Gate. They are a industry leader is rpg's, just as Blizzard was with strategy games. I can't freaking wait, nor can my network of associates/friends. *Begins slapping viens for needle*
Personally I'm not really concerned with the leveling experience; I soloed WOW's leveling and the guild was little more than a chat box. What's going to make or break the game is the endgame experience.
Unique innovative raid dungeons, requiring perhaps to go down and do away missions too. Maybe have to strategize on one half of the team on the planet and the other half in space.
the little bit of this we've heard so far with respect to Fleet actions sounds pretty cool. Fighting crystaline entities, huge klingon fleets and even the planet killer sounds epic. If they can come up with some cool ways to endgame raid, the game could be pretty cool.
My point was that this game will cater to group play and solo play, forcing people to play only one style is just ridiculous in this day and age. IMO WoW did it the best, you can level solo and play for an hour, or you can do instances/group quests together. I know WoW is kinda taboo on this website especially but its the truth.
I didn't say group play is for people with no lives, I merely pointed out that its nice to have an option to do whatever you'd like depending on what your playstyle is.
I really hope most of the people that are already complaining about this game don't buy it, and just shut up in general. If you don't want to pay 15 bucks a month DON'T.
i like that you have a choice to either group or solo, I don't know where all these people trolling these forums nowadays thinking a mmo has to be group play the whole way through. I'm not against group play at all, I like to have a choice.
I honestly can't stand games where you have to wait around for an hour + to find a tank/healer its such a redundant mmo idea that i'd like to see people go outside the box.
I agree with deadeye, my first mmo was not WoW but I do like the idea of being able to solo to max level and deal with grouping. Is just less painful then the old days of eq/ heck even aion nows getting on my nerves with all the grouping after 40, is just kind of annoying. End game get a guild run big pvp matches and instances, every game needs a way to solo from point A to point B without being forced to group. Leveling is fun but for some people not everyone as long as the game isn't a grind fest I will be happy.
I also play when friends are online and do stuff with them. Most of my friends will solo to top level first then its time to have some fun!
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
My coworkers at the office honestly think SWTOR is going to be the greatest mmo ever, and none of us are Starwars fans. Its Bioware. Like, dude, Bioware. I mean damn I'm old but I still can play Bulders Gate. They are a industry leader is rpg's, just as Blizzard was with strategy games. I can't freaking wait, nor can my network of associates/friends. *Begins slapping viens for needle*
Oh wait, you like to group with your friends ? Then you must not have a life! That is just bad bad bad lol.
Despite the facts that it does pretty much the same thing (instanced all to hell), we all either are WOW paladin(jedi, Sith) or Uber WOW hunters (Trooper, Smuggler, bounty hunter), and it doesn't even, as yet, have any spaceships. Despite being called "STAR" Wars.
But we all that's not why everyone is waiting for SWTOR, it's because it's "cool" to like Star Wars and you're a "trekkie" (read as nerd, uncool kid) if you like Star Trek.
/sarcasm
SWTOR looks cool I will be playing it too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think it's going to be the best MMO ever. It looks like it's going to be good but it seems noone ever wants to put star ships into a Star Wars game anymore and it's likely not coming out till 2011. So STO is all there is for the next couple of years.
If TOR comes out in 2010, it will have 4 years of development time (oh, and it has missions in space, though they haven't announced if you can pilot your own ship or not since Bioware doesn't announce things unless they are happy with how they work. Also, comparing to WoW is silly since they don't use the Tank-Healer-DPS mechanic and the game is strongly story-based). STO is going to have about 2. Honestly, I can't think of an MMO that took 3 years to make that came off well at launch, so I am rather surprised that so many people are excited by a game with such a ridiculously slow dev cycle.
Sure, you could group in CO as well. But no one did because there was little benefit for it. Same will probably be true in STO.
My gaming blog
Acknowledging that instancing has its place and uses doesn't justify a game being HEAVILY instanced. I don't know if it applies to STO (we'll see after launch) but a game can be too instanced.
Wow really? Can't say that I've ever met that elitist. In any game.
Look at games like LOTR and Guild Wars. The group content became more like a chore because it was so hard to find teams. Character progression takes back seat when leveling is depended heavily on group content. In such a case you have no choice but to skip the team missions and continue leveling with help of solo missions + mob grinding.
Guild Wars solved this problem by introducing henchmen and heroes. Community cried river and devs were forced to go easy on group content. However in LOTR the problem still persists. Many times i am told in LOTR to just skip the team missions. So i skip it because its damn hard to find anyone to group with.
You guys tell me (those who advocate forced grouping). Where is the fun in spamming LFG channel or skipping half of the content because no body wants to team up with you?
In my opinion group content should be only at end game. The level progressions should be fun and less frustrating, hence the need for solo missions. For all those people who are against solo players i admire the sentiment but lets be honest, how many times do you guys go out of your way or leave what you are doing just to help someone who has been spamming LFG channel for past 20 minutes? lets be honest ok?