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Vandalization of the wikipedia on the MMORPG page
Interesting
Member UncommonPosts: 973
Just noticed it. Its funny how it never occured me that someone could go and change the wiki and affect millions of minds to believe whatever they want them to.
Someone changed the descriptions and concepts of what an MMORPG originally was.
Someone reading it now will think its perfectly fine that an MMORPG is an instanced combat focused game.
No mention of character progression, skill based systems. Its like it doesnt even exist, anyone reading the wiki will think "getting exp" and "leveling up" is "traditional".
The subtle choice of words, the omission of core elements such as the "living breathing world", and the removal of "player freedom", "player choices" and "affecting the world".
There was even a paragraph explaining the "Massivelly" aspect of the acronymn... the sense of scale the concept gave regarding time and effort spent, size of the world, numbers of concurrent players interacting with each other at the same time. EVERYTHING GONE. ERASED FOREVER. If they could avoid mentioning the word "massivelly" and make people forget, they would. No where else in the wiki, they went in detail to what it really means.
Off course, the "Massivelly" aspect of modern MMORPGs is the most neglected one.
No mention of the notion of MMORPGs as a virtual world for players "to live in".
Anything traces that ressembled MMORPGs as its original sandbox concept was completelly erased.
And absurd things like real money transactions are given highlight as if it was perfectly normal and acceptable.
There are dozens of specifically vandalized concepts, carefully changed words, deliberate omissions and so on.
Its mind blowing, really.
Since the start of wikipedia, hundreds of millions of people typed "MMORPG" on google search and would reach the wikipedia page, with dozens of millions of indications, right on top of the search. Think of mass effect it has on people. No wonder kids are all brainwashed on their posts here.
We lose our times here on this forum, discussing and someone smarter went on the wiki and simply changed it to whatever suited his interests. Its like a major rickroll on every player. Its like someone burned historical files that proved what a MMORPG was all about by changing the wiki.
Right now, the wikipedia page of MMORPGs, doesnt mean anything anymore, and the reference/citation system they use is a joke, by its own nature, the wiki is the reference itself.
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Comments
mechwarrior just made a thread about the definition of MMO and he mentions the wiki.
Good excuse to bump this.
We have had dozens of identical threads regarding what a MMORPG, MMO, Massivelly, means... I bet we had over a thousand pages of this subject discussed already... years ago, we use to come up with the "Wiki card".
We would come and post a link to the wiki to prove a point. Well, for a year or so now, it doesnt work anymore, because it was completelly changed to satisfy the opposing side of the argument, the one that enforces the idea that MMORPG is just a game hosted by a company where many people can log in at different times and thats about it.
No mention on the requirement of atleast hundreds of concomitant players in the same visible area interacting with each other.
No mention of this requisite being bypassed by just having ONE big hub where people can see each other graphically.
No mention of the massive scale of size of the world, massive scale of content, massive scale of time and effort required to progress on such word. Even the massive scale of number of players, got downgraded to its minimum interpretation: as long as multiple people have an account and can log in at the same time, it doesnt matter if they can actually play with each other and cause effect on each other.
I remember this being discussed back when Arena.net was formed and the first interviews with the developers about Guild Wars being an MMORPG or not. People were really pissed off that it was being considering an MMORPG. Look how things went downhill from that... now every piece of shit game is even less of an MMORPG than Guild Wars and things are not looking good.
Back in the time, posting the wiki would end the argument. Now, the data has been compromised and another topic about "definition of MMO" has arised... and quite likelly someone could post the wiki to argue the opposite of what it was once used to argue.
I agree. It should say what you want it to say.
Not because whoever wants it, but because it used to.
It got brutally changed. In some years acts such as these will be considered crimes.
Its like changing the Declaration of Rights of Independency.
You dont want me to take you seriously, just say so, I can simply start ignoring you.
Hahaha a crime? Give me a break. Maybe you should instead worry about things which matter, and leave Wiki pages to administrators. Everyone knows Wikipedia is an unreliable source of information.
Wow, easy there cowboy. Wikipedia is not the declaration of independence. Its made by everyone that chooses to do so, so whatever was done to it was perfectly in according to its rules.
Terms should be slaves to usage, not the other way around. We cant keep bashing stuff because it doesn't fit the definition of its description perfectly, thats just silly. (Not in the least to say that the malevolent changer represents the new 'common view', naturally)
That being said, I do see your point and find myself pretty dismayed about the changes to the wiki. However, them changes in themselves do not necessarily mean the hivemind of global game dev conspiracies is at play here...
- Shijeer
The definition of a word changes over time. It's natural. It is also natural to oppose such changes. What do you intend to do about it? Is it a conspiracy? Wikipedia is the kool-aid capital of the internet run by the lizard king himself so don't sweat it.
I never expected the meaning of the word MMORPG (it's an acronym I know but we use it as a word so...) to remain static. The internet is changing, users are changing, and finance and software/hardware have all changed with us. This is no country for old men.
There is what you read and what you play. I'm still playing MMORPGs. I've never had to look one up because it's been pretty obvious to me and, I'm sure, to a lot of folks. I never looked it up on wiki for the same reason I never looked up 'dictionary' in Webster's. If the definition becomes broader, that's not a bad thing. More choice will give more people what they want and and maybe more investors will come to a market that is growing. Shout out against it as loud as you can because for every forum post like this, there is a developer lurking somewhere with the next big idea. They may be listening.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
I think that if one tried to change it around to what is was, one would see its not as easy as it seems.
What the MMORPG page of wiki says is very important, has its intrinsic value and it causes effect on millions of people.
You can google "MMORPG" and you will see the wiki page coming up.
Millions of people read that page and many million of people will read it in the future.
The effect wiki has on people in undeniable, even more on the new generations who might accept it as solid truth.
"Oh, if the wiki says that, then its the truth".
Its also undeniable that are rivers of money flowing and its of the interest of the gaming companies that the concept of MMORPGs and therefore target consumers expectancy is under control, fitting their interests of minimum effort in the development of their product/service for the same proffit.
Its like suddenly going to the supermarket to buy a product and its size/weight content got reduced, but the price remained the same. In consumerist law, its a crime punishable with money penalty to do so.
But this has been done to MMORPGs and is being done over and over.
Even our wiki, wich served as a solid base and common ground, now has been changed.
Lol, comparing wiki and the declaration of Independence?
Please, wiki is written by regular people. I don't really see the big deal, is anyone so stupid that they trust wiki without a second source anyways?
Wiki is great to get basic info about stuff, as long as you actually checks what it say on other places. Wiki is sometimes wrong or includes things that are pure fiction. As long as you know that it is however a good tool to find things out about most things.
MMORPG's were -less- 'massively multiplayer' consistently the further back you go, why then insist that nowadays mmo's are somehow less mmo then they were in the past, in spite of an obvious increase in what-have-you, because there is pretty much more of everything.
Go with the flow, my friend. If the industry wants to flaunt over-the-top graphics at the cost of instancing everything in every game doesn't mean that suddenly there are no more mmos. It simply means that they have taken a different turn, a new chapter in the history of online gaming, if you will. Quite plainly means that nowadays mmos tend to be more instanced, the term has changed a tad, so be it. The wiki should reflect that if it aspires to reflect popular opinion, a bit more carefully perhaps, subtly - sure ... but nontheless.
- Shijeer
Anything stopping you from changing it back?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Lvling is a Key tradition in MMORPG (Or better yet RPG)
MMO's dont have to have Lvling, but what makes a video game titled RPG, is the lvling. Role Playing is a vague term in what a RPG video game is. RPG games are based on the exp system of DnD. Hence the name RPG.
MMORPG, are nothing more then an RPG with a Massive Muti Player Gameplay option. This is why games like Guild Wars arent MMORPGs, because they lack the option to fight and lvl in a open world with Massive amouts of people (even if thats not the main focus in the game)
Skill based games also use the EXP system that defines RPG as video Games.
I was wondering the same thing.
EDIT:
I just read the definition and it is currently as follows:
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of computer role-playing games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world),[1] and take control over many of that character's actions.[2] MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard).
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mmorpg
Where's the vandalism? You said there's no mention of character progression, but it is listed right in the Common Features section:
"Although modern MMORPGs sometimes differ dramatically from their antecedents, many of them share some basic characteristics. These include several common themes: some form of progression, social interaction within the game..."
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Lvling is a Key tradition in MMORPG (Or better yet RPG)
MMO's dont have to have Lvling, but what makes a video game titled RPG, is the lvling. Role Playing is a vague term in what a RPG video game is. RPG games are based on the exp system of DnD. Hence the name RPG.
MMORPG, are nothing more then an RPG with a Massive Muti Player Gameplay option. This is why games like Guild Wars arent MMORPGs, because they lack the option to fight and lvl in a open world with Massive amouts of people (even if thats not the main focus in the game)
Skill based games also use the EXP system that defines RPG as video Games.
I was refering to character progression through use: skill based character progression, instead of character progression through acquisition of a generic measure of progression: experience/exp, mainly acquired on combat or recently questing: wich conventionally became synonymn of progression = leveling up.
The problem? The article ignores one completelly, the original one, how dare they. And mentions the other calling it "Traditional".
I know progression is a core element in MMORPGs. I dont refer to progression through the term "leveling", because I recognize its just one of the concepts which MMORPGs who evolved from the Everquest School of Thought utilize.
Character progression through use is what happens in real life and what happened in the first virtual world, Ultima Online.
It allows MMORPGs to encompass a multiplicity of skill and abilities without the need to segregate players into roles or segregate them into different points of their scripted journey, a character progression through use doesnt segregate, nor limit players, it offers a realistic, varied and natural character progression. Level based games rarelly encompass other activities other than combat and nowadays, questing, it often comes with forced segregation roles, such as classes too.
Basically, in one, people get overwhelmed by the cheer ammount of possibilities and activities at their disposal and how everything connects together with other systems and other player. People do what they want, when they want and can change roles or activities at any time, they can play with their friends at any time too.
In another, all people can do is kill monsters or do quests for the generic progression reward: XP, exp, experience. All the content is scaled to it, READ = SEGREGATION. Its against the idea of MMORPGs and virtual worlds in many levels. And the wiki only mentions it and proposes it as the predominant model.
Now the wiki doesnt even mention this or explain what are the effects of one or the other.
It happens. A few of us vandalized our high school's page a few years back and it was there for over a week before the mods caught it.
I'm sure as long as it's anywhere near valid, it's allowed to stay.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Fact is, your definition of MMORPG is just your opinion. To you it is a free world in which anything can happen, but you have to admit that the definition has changed since then. The wikipedia article accurately represents what the majority of people think it is. Sure you may not agree, but you are acting as if your definition is the only one.
I love wikipedia.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
There is a reason that wikipedia is shunned by the leading academic institutions.
Im was talking about what was there for years untill recently, nothing personal.
Hey! If it's good enough for the Australian Tax Office it should be good enough for you!
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Awesome, this thread made me find out about The "Corrupted Blood incident" in WoW.
Very cool read.
Inherited Will, the Destiny of the Age, and the Dreams of its People. These are things that will not be stopped. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things will never cease to be! - Gol D. Roger