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Bards: Where are they?
AlBQuirky
Member EpicPosts: 7,432
I like Bards. My first MMOG character was an EverQuest Bard. I loved the class. Unfortunately, I could never get above ~level 15 without having to join a random group or guild.
Are there other MMOGs that have a Bard class available? [I have seen the WoW announcement and seen the "April Fools" replies.]
I like Bards for their versatility and uniqueness. Bards are truly a "jack-of-all-trades, master of none." Playing my EQ Bard made grouping more enjoyable as I was a great support person able to fill 2 or 3 rolls if needed. I also had better chances of survival soloing.
Is there an MMOG out there that does have Bards, besides EQ and EQ II?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Comments
FFXI.
In few months we'll get confirmation if FFXIV will have them, too.
Vanguard did the Bard very well.
I believe there's a new server for EQ that allows you start in the 50's or 60's if I remember right. Plus the lower level stuff has been made a lot easier to tackle solo.
As far as I know, there's no non-SOE MMO with the bard class at this time. There are some similar things though in other games, but nothing called a bard.
Lineage 2 features the Spellsinger, which is a bard in all but name. Short term buffs, dual wielding, and I believe fairly heavy armor though its been a while since I played.
Ragnarok Online has a Bard that can transform into two other classes. They're not like the bards you are familiar with though. More like a rogue.
Dungeons&Dragons Online(DDO)
Vanguard: saga of heroes bard is awesome!
Make your own song out of skills and name the song.
Spellsinger is a nuker, Swordsinger is the one you're talking about, together with the Bladedancer.
On topic ,it would be interesting to have them in today's MMOs, but I doubt it.
The playerbases dramatically changed over the years, I doubt today's players will enjoy playing something else than cookiecutter min/maxing.
Fixed for ya
edit: now with respective colors
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
As noted Vanguard has bards.
Other games with classes with similar abilities but that fill slightly different roles.
Age of Conan Conqueror a tank class that uses warcries to buff his group and make everyone stronger.
Knight of the blazing sun tank from WAR with auras and whatnot that can do a variety of different things
Chosen Tank From WAR same as above but aura are more focused on debuffing and damagin the enemy.
Both of the WAR aura tanks play alot like old EQ1 bards where you actually twist your auras.
I think that the idea of doing battle by playing music is lost enough on those who didn't grow up with D&D (or during the 80s) that it has been rapidly fading away. I know that it would be lost on me if I hadn't just caught the tail end of the D&Ds golden years.
I don't necessarily mourn its passing, but I do agree that Vanguard did it extremely well. As a matter of fact, I believe it's the only time I've played a bard and enjoyed it. Beautiful class. Only LotRO's music system could have improved it.
EDIT: By the way, I think that Dragon Age's interpretation of the bard class, from a lore standpoint, may be able to save the class for many people. Nothing changes in regards to its mechanics, yet it takes the concept away from, 'My music is magical! Lute riff of DOOM!' and toward more of a finesse fighter with an incredible education which includes music.
Yes they did, as well as Everquest. I want a bard in mmorpg high concept document, but I have no idea how to make them better or have a different twist. So they are omitted from my game for now. I just can't compete with that class design in EQ and Vanguard.
I've always liked the idea of Bards, (well, since experiencing the music system in LOTRO, at least) .. and more so since discovering that the Bard originated in medieval gaelic/english cultures.
But I've never really been sure what they are in terms of archetype and how well they would fit into a game that operates with the trinity combat mechanics.
LOTRO approaches them (via the Minstrel class) as trinity healers through the transposition of the typical RPG "health meter" to depict "morale", thereby establishing that Minstrels maintain the fighting spirits of their compatriots rather than the more traditional method of using magical healers to restore healthbars. It's a good concept, and it works.
But then we have the other representations of Bards in different games. I've seen everything from Rogue/Mage hybrid to pure Buff/Debuff support class.
I suppose that a better question than "where are they?" would be "what are they?".
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I really dont know what you're talking about. Bards are in LOTRO, in Vanguard; they are in almost every western fantasy MMO. Some don't have them because of the lore, like Conan or Warhammer worlds. The LOTRO Bards are quite cool because they can play real music.
I often see Bardic music bands making some performances in LOTRO.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Good question, but we all know the answer. Bards are everything, yet they are nothing. They can fit into most roles in a party, but never as well as the intended class. Bards by definition are characters that aren't masters of anyone thing, but they dabble in everything. I mean in D&D they can, cast arcane spells but never as good as a mage or sorcerer. They can heal, but not as well as a cleric, and they can hide and move silently, just not as well as a rougue. Bard classes are a blast to play in every game I've played them in. DDO FFXI and LOTRO.
As far as the OPs question.....I don't know why you ask that because they seem to be in almost every fantasy game.
for me the best Bard class was in Vanguard, was very cool. i liked how you could make your own songs by mixing and matching the parts of the song (melody,embelishments,lyrics ect) each part buffed something different. could buff your run speed out the ass with one song, have another with healing parts stacked in it, or another set up to max dmg as much as possible. had to be careful to get it set up right because the song drained mana constantly but if you mixed and matched right you could get it to where your natural mana regen covered the mana cost of the spell.
That's a very good question to ponder.
I appreciate the help and info people have shared.
From what I gathered about Vanguard sounds like its life expectancy is quite short.
I am looking at EQ and EQ II to see how they fare.
LotRO looks interesting, as does Lineage II.
Warhammer Online and DDO - I am uninterested.
Ragnarok looks a bit too anime-ish for my tastes.
Again, thanks for the quick responses and good pointers.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
That's a very good question to ponder.
I appreciate the help and info people have shared.
From what I gathered about Vanguard sounds like its life expectancy is quite short.
I am looking at EQ and EQ II to see how they fare.
LotRO looks interesting, as does Lineage II.
Warhammer Online and DDO - I am uninterested.
Ragnarok looks a bit too anime-ish for my tastes.
Again, thanks for the quick responses and good pointers.
meh Vanguard has atleast another year in it at the very least. and how many recent games have you played that you lasted that long in them before quitting?
Bards are traveling minstrels who sing of heroic feats. And in today's linear, easy-mode MMO's, no one is really heroic, therefore nothing to really sing or tell tales about, so it is quite appropriate there are no bards.
DAOC has 3 "bards" essentially. They're all hybrid, chanter classes but fairly unique from one another. In pvp they are (were? been years) invaluable for the runspeed
Minstrel (albion) is a scout type which has a powerful charm type skill, Skald (mids) is a fighter type and hibs have Bards which are healer hybrids.
Also like to lend my voice to how awesome VG bards are - however they don't play like EQ bards imo. They are DPS primarily
Currently Playing: The Game
Yes they did, as well as Everquest. I want a bard in mmorpg high concept document, but I have no idea how to make them better or have a different twist. So they are omitted from my game for now. I just can't compete with that class design in EQ and Vanguard.
Allow for, say, 4 measures of actual music being played. Then allow for each measure to be something different but that it can be mixed and match with any choice of measure before and after it.
So, have, say 4 choices of measure 1, four of 2, four of 3 and four of 4 (this is just an example).
However, there can be differences in how measure 1 is played, 2 is played, etc. You will have to get someone who knows music to help you with this.
Then allow for the player to mix and match and to get different outcomes or buffs for how he does it.
I would highly suggest you do research on Mozart's musical game Musikalisches Würfelspiel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musikalisches_W%C3%BCrfelspiel
it's an actual game where the player can create music. Creating a system where the Bard player can create his own short music based on pre-composed bits and allowing for certain bits to have different effects (such as buff/debuff/duration of buff, strength, etc) would allow for the player to be actively participating in his own bard character.
In any case that's just a thought off the top of my head.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Aion chanter class somewhat fills this role of musical buffer.
Edit for typos
I never played a bard in a MMO, but read about them in a DnD book from the Library.
What are they?
What I get from the class (My way I look at them)
Cloth/ Leather Armor wearer
2hander Melee Blade Fighter
Healer(From Damage), and Ranged Channeled Caster Damage/Buffs
the Main form of Magic damage would all be by Channeld Spell casting, which makes them diffrent from Mages and Warlocks.
That's a very good question to ponder.
I appreciate the help and info people have shared.
From what I gathered about Vanguard sounds like its life expectancy is quite short.
I am looking at EQ and EQ II to see how they fare.
LotRO looks interesting, as does Lineage II.
Warhammer Online and DDO - I am uninterested.
Ragnarok looks a bit too anime-ish for my tastes.
Again, thanks for the quick responses and good pointers.
Vanguard was expected to be still born or dead shortly after launch and it's been 3 years. Since you are interested in 2 other SoE games might as well station pass it and then play Vanguard as well. I think Vanguard will be around a while yet and even if they never end up working on endgame or kill it all together, you still have plenty of time to experience the best part of Vanguard anyway, 1-50.
It's worth a play given your experience imo.
Think of a Bard as a hybrid fighter class. Bards usually have elements of a fighter and rogue as well as songs that can boost a groups abilities and stats and lower those of an enemy. They also sometimes have abilities that would augment run speeds and regen speeds.
In EQ bards were fun, though a little stressful on the fingers/wrists of the player. I loved my bard and trying my best to keep as many songs twisted while still keeping up DPS in a fight and avoiding getting creamed.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
"Play the MANA song!"
"Play the HEALING Song!"
"Play the SPEED song!"
I remember grouping with one or two people just to help them get somewhere quickly or healed up after a fight. lol
Luckily, I did not suffer Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. I could get 3 songs easily (as long as LAG did not occur), but 4 was hard.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Not sure what you've tried yet, but in EQ2, I started out as a Dirge and betrayed at 73 to become a Troubador. Both bard classes are a lot of fun to play, and have tons of utility. Don't expect to do massive DPS unless you are a in a guild that can kill avatars, but you don't have to be to enjoy the class.