I believe DFO is a sandbox, player cities with crafted items being better for the most part. Player housing and player ships with exploration and most of the content revolves around the players and their factions rather than the opposite.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Darkfall is a sandbox game. You can't say that it isn't. The problem is the one demensional design. With the last expansion, they did increase the choices, but overall there is just one thing you can do to paly and enjoy the game. You must join a strong guild and grind every skill in the game. Then PvP when you have the chance. You can PvE, but how long can you kill the same mobs over and over for no reason other than skills and gold?
I would prefer a sandbox game to have more choices. A skill cap to define your character. The ability to have a true player run economy. An economy with material that is limited to areas that can be battled over. A reason to have palitical battles. More than my alliance is bigger than yours so I can take your city. That is meaningless fighting. The content of the world should be what is battled over, not just pre-determined player made cities.
A sandbox should be a dynamic living persistant world that can be altered by the players inhabiting the game. The Dev's own ideas of what Darkfall was to be fit more with the sandbox. Too bad they couldn't accomplish thier ideas in the current game. Maybe someday they will get there. Just not in the games current state.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
i say it isnt a sandbox! i spent 2 hours in there and not once did i find a pale to make a sand castle!!
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Apparently, because you don't have levels/classes and players have a larger role in affecting the world when compared to thempark games, it's a sandbox. That's, of course, a very broad definition, so it's really up to individual people whether they'd classify Darkfall as a sandbox or not.
While technically it's a "sandbox", I look at what the game's focus is rather than what's there. So to me, it's just a FFA PvP MMO.
Darkfall is a sandbox game. You can't say that it isn't. The problem is the one demensional design. With the last expansion, they did increase the choices, but overall there is just one thing you can do to paly and enjoy the game. You must join a strong guild and grind every skill in the game. Then PvP when you have the chance. You can PvE, but how long can you kill the same mobs over and over for no reason other than skills and gold?
This paragraph is probably the most contradictory statement I've read in a while. So, we can't say DFO is not a sandbox, however, it is unidimensional, and you must do exactly the same thing like everyone else.
It's quite flabbergasting.
I am a vocal proponent of the"not sandbox" theory, and I still stick to it. Open-endedness does not a sandbox make. The game lacks variety, by design.
Darkfall is a sandbox game. You can't say that it isn't. The problem is the one demensional design. With the last expansion, they did increase the choices, but overall there is just one thing you can do to paly and enjoy the game. You must join a strong guild and grind every skill in the game. Then PvP when you have the chance. You can PvE, but how long can you kill the same mobs over and over for no reason other than skills and gold?
I would prefer a sandbox game to have more choices. A skill cap to define your character. The ability to have a true player run economy. An economy with material that is limited to areas that can be battled over. A reason to have palitical battles. More than my alliance is bigger than yours so I can take your city. That is meaningless fighting. The content of the world should be what is battled over, not just pre-determined player made cities.
A sandbox should be a dynamic living persistant world that can be altered by the players inhabiting the game. The Dev's own ideas of what Darkfall was to be fit more with the sandbox. Too bad they couldn't accomplish thier ideas in the current game. Maybe someday they will get there. Just not in the games current state.
This is pretty close to what the truth of DF is but I wouldn't go as far as to say you can't say it's not a sandbox, if themepark mmo's get that title and a bad rep to go along with it DF doesn't get a pass when most themepark mmo's offer more complete options of play than DF presently does. Now with that out of the way I personally would say DF is a sandbox albeit one with very little sand in the box right now but I don't like to label themepark mmo's either and don't see it as black and white as many who complain about the design of those types of games, I often play themepark mmo's and ignore what is "themepark" about them as many others could to.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Players are dropped into the world with no linear path to follow. You can join in with a PvE or PvP hunt from day one and not be limited by your level. If you can aim a bow/stave/axe, then you can hit and cause damage. You're not forced into a path of mobs with gradual increase in levels.You're not banned from dungeons just because of your level, and you're not restricted from who you can kill and where by artificial blocks. Killing a single person can lead to a clan war (I know this from first-hand experience).
You could spend your life trading, harvesting, stealthing around, mount-stealing, hunting mobs, building ships, crafting weapons, dealing with clan relations and alliance relations, hunting PKs, hunting innocents, hunting race enemies or sailing the seas. Darkfall is a sandbox MMO. If it isn't, then neither is EVE Online.
To me, Darkfall is a sandbox, however as has been said it needs more sand. Right now I feel darkfall is to focused on clan warfare and the rest is needing more attention. Think of it as a sandbox where mostly what you do is build a sandcastle and then people come and kick it over. This is all fine and good but give us more sand, more tools and so on to do things outside of that as a main focus.
Darkfall is a sandbox game. You can't say that it isn't. The problem is the one demensional design. With the last expansion, they did increase the choices, but overall there is just one thing you can do to paly and enjoy the game. You must join a strong guild and grind every skill in the game. Then PvP when you have the chance. You can PvE, but how long can you kill the same mobs over and over for no reason other than skills and gold?
I would prefer a sandbox game to have more choices. A skill cap to define your character. The ability to have a true player run economy. An economy with material that is limited to areas that can be battled over. A reason to have palitical battles. More than my alliance is bigger than yours so I can take your city. That is meaningless fighting. The content of the world should be what is battled over, not just pre-determined player made cities.
A sandbox should be a dynamic living persistant world that can be altered by the players inhabiting the game. The Dev's own ideas of what Darkfall was to be fit more with the sandbox. Too bad they couldn't accomplish thier ideas in the current game. Maybe someday they will get there. Just not in the games current state.
Great post, that pretty much defines my preception of a sandbox game as well.
Darkfall is a sandbox MMO. If it isn't, then neither is EVE Online.
This is my view as well.
If these games are truly not sandboxes, then I essentially have no idea what a sandbox is.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I heard this get throwed around abit, that Darkfall isnt a sandbox mmo. Well why isnt it?
Darkfall is an anomaly of MMOs.
As has been mentioned, what constitutes a sandbox varies wildly from one person to another. It would be easier for you to post up what you look for in a game to consider it a sandbox.
With that, I'll just link to a very good article(IMO) that for me outlines some of the most important elements I look for in a "sandbox" game of any genre.
Although an alright mmo--if you don't mind evading the new macro police Gms that have suddenly started to enforce their rules--DF is far from a Sandbox.
Housing areas are organized and designated by AV/Developer
Player city locations and designs are again, organized and designated by the Dev
the skills that you can learn are not even close to UO in scope and span
just 3 things off the top of my head, but there are more
Although an alright mmo--if you don't mind evading the new macro police Gms that have suddenly started to enforce their rules--DF is far from a Sandbox. Housing areas are organized and designated by AV/Developer Player city locations and designs are again, organized and designated by the Dev the skills that you can learn are not even close to UO in scope and span
just 3 things off the top of my head, but there are more
Those definitions are exactly mine as well.
So far, the only game that qualifies to be sandbox in my view is Ultima Online - you could level up any skills you wanted in whatever order you wanted. You could build whatever house I wanted and wherever I wanted.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Rondo Although an alright mmo--if you don't mind evading the new macro police Gms that have suddenly started to enforce their rules--DF is far from a Sandbox. Housing areas are organized and designated by AV/Developer Player city locations and designs are again, organized and designated by the Dev the skills that you can learn are not even close to UO in scope and span
just 3 things off the top of my head, but there are more
Those definitions are exactly mine as well. So far, the only game that qualifies to be sandbox in my view is Ultima Online - you could level up any skills you wanted in whatever order you wanted. You could build whatever house I wanted and wherever I wanted.
Give it time. The makings of a great sandbox are there. It's been out less than a year. If the devs continue to add more "sand" then the game will become a truly amazing sandbox.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
There are about as many opinions on what constitutes a sandbox MMO as there are MMO players. Some say Darkfall is sandbox and others don't. To me, it's a sandbox, but it could use even more sand.
Originally posted by xpiher Originally posted by Nizur There are about as many opinions on what constitutes a sandbox MMO as there are MMO players. Some say Darkfall is sandbox and others don't. To me, it's a sandbox, but it could use even more sand.
It could use more tools, theres plenty sand.
Semantics. What I'm saying is that it needs even more PvE elements and mobs. More flexibility with city placement and building. More options in crafting and so on. I think we agree on that at least.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I believe DFO is a sandbox, player cities with crafted items being better for the most part. Player housing and player ships with exploration and most of the content revolves around the players and their factions rather than the opposite.
Exactly player cities is the biggest feature in DF that is not a sandbox. Every aspect of player cities are completely predefined. You just have to build different elements in it. There is even no single piece of sand in that mechanic.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
There are about as many opinions on what constitutes a sandbox MMO as there are MMO players. Some say Darkfall is sandbox and others don't.
To me, it's a sandbox, but it could use even more sand.
It could use more tools, theres plenty sand.
Semantics. What I'm saying is that it needs even more PvE elements and mobs. More flexibility with city placement and building. More options in crafting and so on. I think we agree on that at least.
City placement and op-in rvr, but more crafting options isn't going to help.
Originally posted by xpiher Originally posted by Nizur
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Nizur
There are about as many opinions on what constitutes a sandbox MMO as there are MMO players. Some say Darkfall is sandbox and others don't. To me, it's a sandbox, but it could use even more sand.
It could use more tools, theres plenty sand.
Semantics. What I'm saying is that it needs even more PvE elements and mobs. More flexibility with city placement and building. More options in crafting and so on. I think we agree on that at least.
City placement and op-in rvr, but more crafting options isn't going to help.
Isn't going to help what? It can't hurt anything and can only make the game more immersive. Dyes, patterns, more available crafting mats, emblems, etc.
I'm going to use Ryzom as an example since it has some of the best crafting I've ever seen in an MMO. In Ryzom, different mats can combine in different ways to change the resulting colors, stats, looks, and quality of the crafted item. Some mats are only available during certain seasons or kinds of weather or in certain places or a combination of the above.
Put something like that in DFO, and you'll get the following:
1. More PvP hotspots where the mats appear 2. More armor types and qualities with personalization 3. More exploration to find rare mats which could lead to more PvP skirmishes 4. Crafting experimentation with closely held secret recipes for awesome items 5. A more immersive world
It's not absolutely needed to make the game fun, but it will definitely make the game MORE fun and more like a real world.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Comments
There are about as many opinions on what constitutes a sandbox MMO as there are MMO players. Some say Darkfall is sandbox and others don't.
To me, it's a sandbox, but it could use even more sand.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I believe DFO is a sandbox, player cities with crafted items being better for the most part. Player housing and player ships with exploration and most of the content revolves around the players and their factions rather than the opposite.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Darkfall is a sandbox game. You can't say that it isn't. The problem is the one demensional design. With the last expansion, they did increase the choices, but overall there is just one thing you can do to paly and enjoy the game. You must join a strong guild and grind every skill in the game. Then PvP when you have the chance. You can PvE, but how long can you kill the same mobs over and over for no reason other than skills and gold?
I would prefer a sandbox game to have more choices. A skill cap to define your character. The ability to have a true player run economy. An economy with material that is limited to areas that can be battled over. A reason to have palitical battles. More than my alliance is bigger than yours so I can take your city. That is meaningless fighting. The content of the world should be what is battled over, not just pre-determined player made cities.
A sandbox should be a dynamic living persistant world that can be altered by the players inhabiting the game. The Dev's own ideas of what Darkfall was to be fit more with the sandbox. Too bad they couldn't accomplish thier ideas in the current game. Maybe someday they will get there. Just not in the games current state.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
i say it isnt a sandbox! i spent 2 hours in there and not once did i find a pale to make a sand castle!!
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
darkfall is a sandbox game the only problem is not the finest sand u ever seen and there is a need for more sand on teh box
BestSigEver :P
Ignore those who say that DF is not a sandbox. They are just mad because its not like their previous sandbox game.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Apparently, because you don't have levels/classes and players have a larger role in affecting the world when compared to thempark games, it's a sandbox. That's, of course, a very broad definition, so it's really up to individual people whether they'd classify Darkfall as a sandbox or not.
While technically it's a "sandbox", I look at what the game's focus is rather than what's there. So to me, it's just a FFA PvP MMO.
This paragraph is probably the most contradictory statement I've read in a while. So, we can't say DFO is not a sandbox, however, it is unidimensional, and you must do exactly the same thing like everyone else.
It's quite flabbergasting.
I am a vocal proponent of the"not sandbox" theory, and I still stick to it. Open-endedness does not a sandbox make. The game lacks variety, by design.
This is pretty close to what the truth of DF is but I wouldn't go as far as to say you can't say it's not a sandbox, if themepark mmo's get that title and a bad rep to go along with it DF doesn't get a pass when most themepark mmo's offer more complete options of play than DF presently does. Now with that out of the way I personally would say DF is a sandbox albeit one with very little sand in the box right now but I don't like to label themepark mmo's either and don't see it as black and white as many who complain about the design of those types of games, I often play themepark mmo's and ignore what is "themepark" about them as many others could to.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Players are dropped into the world with no linear path to follow. You can join in with a PvE or PvP hunt from day one and not be limited by your level. If you can aim a bow/stave/axe, then you can hit and cause damage. You're not forced into a path of mobs with gradual increase in levels.You're not banned from dungeons just because of your level, and you're not restricted from who you can kill and where by artificial blocks. Killing a single person can lead to a clan war (I know this from first-hand experience).
You could spend your life trading, harvesting, stealthing around, mount-stealing, hunting mobs, building ships, crafting weapons, dealing with clan relations and alliance relations, hunting PKs, hunting innocents, hunting race enemies or sailing the seas. Darkfall is a sandbox MMO. If it isn't, then neither is EVE Online.
To me, Darkfall is a sandbox, however as has been said it needs more sand. Right now I feel darkfall is to focused on clan warfare and the rest is needing more attention. Think of it as a sandbox where mostly what you do is build a sandcastle and then people come and kick it over. This is all fine and good but give us more sand, more tools and so on to do things outside of that as a main focus.
Great post, that pretty much defines my preception of a sandbox game as well.
This is my view as well.
If these games are truly not sandboxes, then I essentially have no idea what a sandbox is.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Darkfall is an anomaly of MMOs.
As has been mentioned, what constitutes a sandbox varies wildly from one person to another. It would be easier for you to post up what you look for in a game to consider it a sandbox.
With that, I'll just link to a very good article(IMO) that for me outlines some of the most important elements I look for in a "sandbox" game of any genre.
The History and Theory of Sandbox Gameplay
Here's a link to one of the most recent discussions, among many, right here on MMORPG as to whether Darkfall is a sandbox or not.
What Makes Darkfall "Sandbox"?
Personally, I would say that Darkfall is a decent sandbox, but has a long ways to go to be a great sandbox.
The viable choices you have in Darkfall to really enjoy the game as intended are just to linear.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Although an alright mmo--if you don't mind evading the new macro police Gms that have suddenly started to enforce their rules--DF is far from a Sandbox.
Housing areas are organized and designated by AV/Developer
Player city locations and designs are again, organized and designated by the Dev
the skills that you can learn are not even close to UO in scope and span
just 3 things off the top of my head, but there are more
Those definitions are exactly mine as well.
So far, the only game that qualifies to be sandbox in my view is Ultima Online - you could level up any skills you wanted in whatever order you wanted. You could build whatever house I wanted and wherever I wanted.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
So far, the only game that qualifies to be sandbox in my view is Ultima Online - you could level up any skills you wanted in whatever order you wanted. You could build whatever house I wanted and wherever I wanted.
Give it time. The makings of a great sandbox are there. It's been out less than a year. If the devs continue to add more "sand" then the game will become a truly amazing sandbox.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
It could use more tools, theres plenty sand.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
It could use more tools, theres plenty sand.
Semantics. What I'm saying is that it needs even more PvE elements and mobs. More flexibility with city placement and building. More options in crafting and so on. I think we agree on that at least.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Exactly player cities is the biggest feature in DF that is not a sandbox. Every aspect of player cities are completely predefined. You just have to build different elements in it. There is even no single piece of sand in that mechanic.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
It could use more tools, theres plenty sand.
Semantics. What I'm saying is that it needs even more PvE elements and mobs. More flexibility with city placement and building. More options in crafting and so on. I think we agree on that at least.
City placement and op-in rvr, but more crafting options isn't going to help.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
It could use more tools, theres plenty sand.
Semantics. What I'm saying is that it needs even more PvE elements and mobs. More flexibility with city placement and building. More options in crafting and so on. I think we agree on that at least.
City placement and op-in rvr, but more crafting options isn't going to help.
Isn't going to help what? It can't hurt anything and can only make the game more immersive. Dyes, patterns, more available crafting mats, emblems, etc.
I'm going to use Ryzom as an example since it has some of the best crafting I've ever seen in an MMO. In Ryzom, different mats can combine in different ways to change the resulting colors, stats, looks, and quality of the crafted item. Some mats are only available during certain seasons or kinds of weather or in certain places or a combination of the above.
Put something like that in DFO, and you'll get the following:
1. More PvP hotspots where the mats appear
2. More armor types and qualities with personalization
3. More exploration to find rare mats which could lead to more PvP skirmishes
4. Crafting experimentation with closely held secret recipes for awesome items
5. A more immersive world
It's not absolutely needed to make the game fun, but it will definitely make the game MORE fun and more like a real world.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN