There are just no more Worlds anymore in MMORPGs. Everything is being instanced, how do companies get away with labeling their game as an MMORPG when there is nothing massive about it anymore? Generally, the only zones that are not instanced are the unimportant zones. A town might not be instanced, or newbie zones that tend to be barren. All of the zones that have loot, etc. are being instanced. PvP is instanced, and so is PVE. So why do people continue to call these imposter of games MMORPGS? No game with instancing is an MMORPG. There are just no worlds anymore. So my question is when is the next real MMORPG coming out?
So you prefer a Sandbox type mmo then? I think that's what you're describing.
You are looking in the wrong place to find what you want. MMORPGs are games. They have finite linear paths with predefined classes and levels so therefore they would follow the path of instancing to sate the gamer. The gamer wants to be able to level up and not be interfered with. The gamer wants to be able to get to the ending of a quest chain that follows this linear path without being interrupted by others. The gamer is the one that makes the demands on the developer to make the GAME what it is. The developer wants to make a ROI that is significant so therefore will bend to the gamer. Those like you THAT have the same interest are a minority in MMORPGs!
With that said, Maybe what you want is a different type of so called game. Maybe you want what I coin a Massive Online Virtual World? The world is open and HUGE. In a world such as this the path is undefined. The path is defined by the person behind the avatar and not by the developer and the quests are multi-path so the outcome is determined by the player. there are no levels ever. The world is influenced by the player and reacts to the player. The world is the players domain.
With that said, I wish you a lot of luck finding such a game. No investor will touch it because it is a niche game so funds are impossible to obtain. No developers will assist with it because they want to change it to holy grail of gaming rules or they want a ton of cash up front. Most experienced developers don't think it would be fun since it is not going to grab 12 million subscribers. It has been ignored by even the community.
Entropia Universe, or Second Life sound very much like you describe.
Maybe this is the kind of sandbox so many people have been waiting for.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
As interesting as Entropia and Second Life were to tinker with, I don't think they'll ever be the ideal, and I would hope they wouldn't be. Entropia is a little too set in it's methods, and while you can 'do anything', doing anything requires an endless slough of grinding resources and crafting and selling to make enough money to do what one wants, or otherwise you have to invest money either in a large lump sum, or in regular intervals like any other mmo. Second life is just too...experimental to ever make an effective mmo model.
There are just no more Worlds anymore in MMORPGs. Everything is being instanced, how do companies get away with labeling their game as an MMORPG when there is nothing massive about it anymore? Generally, the only zones that are not instanced are the unimportant zones. A town might not be instanced, or newbie zones that tend to be barren. All of the zones that have loot, etc. are being instanced. PvP is instanced, and so is PVE. So why do people continue to call these imposter of games MMORPGS? No game with instancing is an MMORPG. There are just no worlds anymore. So my question is when is the next real MMORPG coming out?
Instancing is here to stay; move with the times, or don't .. the choice is yours.
But don't expect anyone (especially MMO developers) to care about a steadily dwindling minority of "old school" forum posters who can barely agree on what day it is, let alone what should define a "true MMO".
The only true MMO is the one that sells well. It's a cruel world.
Instancing will stay if ppl support these products. If ppl wont buy and the devs wont get a shit from money mmo will close they ll loose millions and the next mmo they ll make they wont use instancing =] . Simple as that. One of the reasons that developers keep leading the games to that direction tbh is that there are customers like YOU. Yes my friend. They sell you a pice of shit and you are eating and afterwards u also say thnks. Dont expect old school gamers to say THANKS. they ll say its wrong if something is wrong =]
Listen, EQKing... it won't happen. I'm sorry. EQ already cornered that market. So show some loyalty, and present your facts as constructively in those forums as you do here. Maybe they'll open up a server specifically for you... just offer them enough money.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
There are just no more Worlds anymore in MMORPGs. Everything is being instanced, how do companies get away with labeling their game as an MMORPG when there is nothing massive about it anymore? Generally, the only zones that are not instanced are the unimportant zones. A town might not be instanced, or newbie zones that tend to be barren. All of the zones that have loot, etc. are being instanced. PvP is instanced, and so is PVE. So why do people continue to call these imposter of games MMORPGS? No game with instancing is an MMORPG. There are just no worlds anymore. So my question is when is the next real MMORPG coming out?
Your argument is based in semantics. While I can see where you're coming from, we need to define for the sake of conversation what this term means:
MMORPG - What makes up an MMORPG? How does instancing in and of itself disqualify a game from being an MMORPG? Does it at all?
Having not played every MMORPG, I cannot say whether or not only non-instanced zones are unimportant ones. I tend to disagree, though, since if the zones are unimportant to they game, they shouldn't be there in the first place. A better line of thought would be whether or not previously important zones have been made unimportant by the implementation of instancing.
You said, "No game with instancing is an MMORPG." Why? Again, state your reasoning for making such a claim. I doubt that instancing is every going to completely leave the genre now that it has been introduced so heavily. In certain ways, I feel that instancing can be a great asset to MMORPGs so long as it isn't taken overboard, but that's another topic.
There are worlds in MMORPGs; none can exist without one. It think it simply stands that MMORPGs currently popular in the market do not meet your expectations. This indicates you have ideas of what an ideal MMORPG should be, so I would encourage you to put together a thought-out design as to what you are looking for. Who knows, you may have someone point out a game that more or less fits your design.
We, as gamers, have tastes that greatly vary according to our styles. No game will please everyone, and attacking the "opposition" isn't likely to get us anywhere. The beauty of online games, and the fact the industry is so diverse, is that games will be made that are tailored to different communities. If you don't agree with one, see if you can find another, or work to promote one that you can stand by.
How are you supposed to 'raid' or do 'dungeons' without instancing? (serious question)
It is done by spawncamping the mobs in the non-instanced dungeon. Some might call this farming. People forgive this if there is a chance to do PvP and fight over these spawns. Some think it is foolish and boring. Others find it... well... better than the alternative, I believe.
If there's no-one farming in the dungeon, you can raid normally but you have to watch your back for the respawning mobs and possible hostile players.
Forgive my bias.
Check if a mob is up -> Kill it if so?
Dungeons involved camping spawns, but each zone had like 20-40 potential spawn locations that were farmable, so a zone might support 50-100 players at a time.
Originally posted by Lexiscat Originally posted by demc You are looking in the wrong place to find what you want. MMORPGs are games. They have finite linear paths with predefined classes and levels so therefore they would follow the path of instancing to sate the gamer. The gamer wants to be able to level up and not be interfered with. The gamer wants to be able to get to the ending of a quest chain that follows this linear path without being interrupted by others. The gamer is the one that makes the demands on the developer to make the GAME what it is. The developer wants to make a ROI that is significant so therefore will bend to the gamer. Those like you THAT have the same interest are a minority in MMORPGs!With that said, Maybe what you want is a different type of so called game. Maybe you want what I coin a Massive Online Virtual World? The world is open and HUGE. In a world such as this the path is undefined. The path is defined by the person behind the avatar and not by the developer and the quests are multi-path so the outcome is determined by the player. there are no levels ever. The world is influenced by the player and reacts to the player. The world is the players domain.With that said, I wish you a lot of luck finding such a game. No investor will touch it because it is a niche game so funds are impossible to obtain. No developers will assist with it because they want to change it to holy grail of gaming rules or they want a ton of cash up front. Most experienced developers don't think it would be fun since it is not going to grab 12 million subscribers. It has been ignored by even the community.
Entropia Universe, or Second Life sound very much like you describe. Maybe this is the kind of sandbox so many people have been waiting for.
Nice try but try again. Those VR Worlds are not even close. Such a 'game' does not exist yet.
Comments
So you prefer a Sandbox type mmo then? I think that's what you're describing.
Entropia Universe, or Second Life sound very much like you describe.
Maybe this is the kind of sandbox so many people have been waiting for.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
As interesting as Entropia and Second Life were to tinker with, I don't think they'll ever be the ideal, and I would hope they wouldn't be. Entropia is a little too set in it's methods, and while you can 'do anything', doing anything requires an endless slough of grinding resources and crafting and selling to make enough money to do what one wants, or otherwise you have to invest money either in a large lump sum, or in regular intervals like any other mmo. Second life is just too...experimental to ever make an effective mmo model.
And so I link my associated response to this...again... www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3295273#3295273
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Instancing is here to stay; move with the times, or don't .. the choice is yours.
But don't expect anyone (especially MMO developers) to care about a steadily dwindling minority of "old school" forum posters who can barely agree on what day it is, let alone what should define a "true MMO".
The only true MMO is the one that sells well. It's a cruel world.
Instancing will stay if ppl support these products. If ppl wont buy and the devs wont get a shit from money mmo will close they ll loose millions and the next mmo they ll make they wont use instancing =] . Simple as that. One of the reasons that developers keep leading the games to that direction tbh is that there are customers like YOU. Yes my friend. They sell you a pice of shit and you are eating and afterwards u also say thnks. Dont expect old school gamers to say THANKS. they ll say its wrong if something is wrong =]
Listen, EQKing... it won't happen. I'm sorry. EQ already cornered that market. So show some loyalty, and present your facts as constructively in those forums as you do here. Maybe they'll open up a server specifically for you... just offer them enough money.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Your argument is based in semantics. While I can see where you're coming from, we need to define for the sake of conversation what this term means:
MMORPG - What makes up an MMORPG? How does instancing in and of itself disqualify a game from being an MMORPG? Does it at all?
Having not played every MMORPG, I cannot say whether or not only non-instanced zones are unimportant ones. I tend to disagree, though, since if the zones are unimportant to they game, they shouldn't be there in the first place. A better line of thought would be whether or not previously important zones have been made unimportant by the implementation of instancing.
You said, "No game with instancing is an MMORPG." Why? Again, state your reasoning for making such a claim. I doubt that instancing is every going to completely leave the genre now that it has been introduced so heavily. In certain ways, I feel that instancing can be a great asset to MMORPGs so long as it isn't taken overboard, but that's another topic.
There are worlds in MMORPGs; none can exist without one. It think it simply stands that MMORPGs currently popular in the market do not meet your expectations. This indicates you have ideas of what an ideal MMORPG should be, so I would encourage you to put together a thought-out design as to what you are looking for. Who knows, you may have someone point out a game that more or less fits your design.
We, as gamers, have tastes that greatly vary according to our styles. No game will please everyone, and attacking the "opposition" isn't likely to get us anywhere. The beauty of online games, and the fact the industry is so diverse, is that games will be made that are tailored to different communities. If you don't agree with one, see if you can find another, or work to promote one that you can stand by.
It is done by spawncamping the mobs in the non-instanced dungeon. Some might call this farming. People forgive this if there is a chance to do PvP and fight over these spawns. Some think it is foolish and boring. Others find it... well... better than the alternative, I believe.
If there's no-one farming in the dungeon, you can raid normally but you have to watch your back for the respawning mobs and possible hostile players.
Forgive my bias.
Check if a mob is up -> Kill it if so?
Dungeons involved camping spawns, but each zone had like 20-40 potential spawn locations that were farmable, so a zone might support 50-100 players at a time.
Entropia Universe, or Second Life sound very much like you describe.
Maybe this is the kind of sandbox so many people have been waiting for.
Nice try but try again. Those VR Worlds are not even close. Such a 'game' does not exist yet.