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The Real Flaw of MMORPGs
Jimmy_Scythe
Member CommonPosts: 3,586
Levels.
Not classes. Not Questing. Not PvE or PvP....
Levels.
To understand this, you have to consider the logical end to which leveling leads and why this is a poor fit for games that (theoretically) have no end. See, levels imply an end.
Sure, you could level to infinity, but then you'd just fall into what I call "Dragonball Syndrom." Eventually, your character will be so ridiculously overpowered that your willful suspension of disbelief will be broken, you'll no longer be impressed when you hit a new ding and then you'll cease to care about the game altogether. And then there's some bullshit about balance that says that everyone has to eventually be the same.
Levels work in a single player game because there is an ending. You can let the player power level into infinity and just automatically scale everything to match the power curve and the game will still eventually end. Even if you reset the character to level one and take away all of their money and gear every time they die, the player will eventually beat the game. MMORPGs are technically unbeatable.
And before anyone pipes up: skill based systems are still levels. Placing limitations on skill levels basically serves the same pupose as a level cap. Unfortunately, this leads us to the problem of how to make an RPG without any form of leveling whatsoever. Personally, I don't think it can be done.
But there's still hope. Old table top games like Rune Quest and Call of Cthulhu give some really great ideas of how to balance out the power curve. The trick is to design the system that advances skills according to use and with the idea that even an experienced adventurer can be taken out by a weak but lucky creature. Combat isn't a very forgiving past-time after all. You also need to give the players enough options that no one can cover all the bases no matter how long they play. In this regard, Eve Online got it right.
The other problem with levels is in the way it has focused the overall game development to mimic the single player experience. Developers need to start with open ended concepts that allow the players and the environment to tell a story. Instead, we cling to creating web works of quest chains with the expectation of just adding to it as time goes on. This continual addition is counterproductive and expensive as hell. In games that are sold on the size of their community, wouldn't it make sense to start with the community you hope to attract and design around that goal?
Comments
You can let go level or skill to infinity - there is only one thing you need to do and this is to let the requirements grow exponentially while the achievement of each new level or skill must decline exponentially.
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MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
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I think you sum up mmorpg problems in one statement. " you have to consider the logical end to which leveling leads and why this is a poor fit for games that (theoretically) have no end. See, levels imply an end.".
For some reason mmorpg players see mmo's as games with no end and far too often we play games for a few months beyond a free month and immediately begin to blast a game as not being everything we need and automatically turn it into something being wrong with the game.
Most good AAA titles wether an mmo or not will give a player a good month or two of solid gameplay and mmo's can and in fact do that many times over wether the game is that good or not. I will never say DDO is as good as any offline Final Fantasy RPG I played but I easily got near the same amount of playing time on that game world as I have in any FF title. Which is where mmos strength lies to me, because I can get an mmo get a good six months playtime out of it, move on and often times come back a year or more later to find many new features implimented.
On the one hand devs have the problem of making the sub fees stretch long enough to make the game worth a continued run but that isn't my concern by a long shot mine is having a nice game to play that entertains me (along with any other needs we are trying to meet with a hobby). And that's me conceding your point that maybe something is wrong with the industry as so many fans seem to scream and quite possibly the devs think too but I think as a community we often get what we pay for and more from mmo's we just need to lower the bar here as far as our expactations because if we looked at it that way ninety five percent of the genre is a failure as most we all know that everyone moves on at some time, there are not many games with large pools of consistently active players even great games like EVE have people who feel this way sub/play when they feel like it and move on when they don't.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I agree with a poster above. MMORPGS DO have an end. We always quit playing them eventually. They may last a long time, but they DO end.
I'll tell you why I think this is the LEAST immersive system, and why I really dislike it.
First of all, this is the system Darkfall used. I made a prediction before Darkfall released, and I was exactly right. I said, well, people will just macro or do things over and over and over again, to raise skills. Sure enough people pointed their characters towards a tree, and shot spells all night while they were sleeping to increase their skills.
This is why the "use it to improve it" system is the LEAST immersive, IMO.
Some say, this is like REAL LIFE. You get better at something the more you do it.
True, BUT, how does that really work in Real Life? In Real Life, you PRACTICE, a lot. Join the military? They don't teach you to shoot by sending you into battle. You fire on the practice range. You don't become a great boxer by jumping in the ring, you SPAR, a lot.
You don't win track and field events by jumping into races. You TRAIN running the track by yourself, a lot.
Boring, boring, repetitive, practice, practice, practice. That's how real life works. I do NOT want to "practice" in a video game, in other words spar, train at the track, go to the firing range. This leads to the scenario in Darkfall, shooting spells at trees with a macro.
And here is the other reason it is NOT immersive for me. This scenario happens all the time when you use this system.
I have a sword, I can kill Mob X with one wack, because my sword skill is really high. However, I need a ranged attack. My fireball is NOT really high.
What would make sense in the "real world"? In the real world I would use my most effective attack, anything else would not make sense. In the "use it to improve it" world, I will shoot spells at the Mob over and over again, instead of killing it with my sword, so I can increase my spell skill. Makes absolutely NO sense, but that's what I will do, because that's the only way to raise the skill.
How about we say that I went off and shot spells at a tree for a month or two, and got better at it, but I don't actually have to do that in the game?
my view on this.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3279109#3279109
I have never seen a game without a power scale.
Even in Eve if a Person with 10 million sp flying a Ishkur (t2) will beat a Newb with 1 million sp in a Incursus (t1 version) everytime.
you need sometype of power scale in every mmo, you need something to work toward in a mmo.
Eve may give us freedom to tweak our characters in anyway with no class restrictions but theres still a power scale. Same in DF, UO, Ryzom and other sandboxish games.
The reason classes suck is that they give you very limited freedom with an extremely linear progression.
In my opinion Levels(lack of freedom) and Endgame are the worst things to have in MMOs not power scale.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I agree that levels are one of the worst mechanics we carried over from PnP multiplayer games. The flaws in the system were obvious over 30 years ago, os it's no wonder those issues became amplified once we transitioned to a much larger and much less controlled environment.
A DM would create a dungeon for a specific level range. He would only allow a certain level range in the campaign. Having a character off by as little as 3 or 4 levels could greatly impact the difficulty of the dungeon. The problems that levels present in MMORPGs were not new ones, just overlooked by the developers who were too busy stroking their nerd ego and their dice bag to pay attention to what they were doing.
"I have never seen a game without a power scale."
Several people are interpreting "levels" as "any form of progression system" and that is incorrect. Levels are a progression system that create a finite and linear path. An example of an alternate system would be a skill-based system like EVE and UO. Another alternate progression system would be a player skill based system like in Puzzle Pirates.
There are plenty of ways to do progression in an MMO without designing a level-centric system. Not every MMO is EQ, LOTRO or WOW.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I agree I just hope we actually see more alternatives before I leave the genre for good heh.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Just give everyone the same stuff and see what they do with it. It's no big deal. And then they can buy potions and things to help them win, but nothing that will increase killing power, or their defense rating. Maybe give everyone the same selection of skills each battle, but make it random so they will actually TRY to think about strategy.
In short: If everyone could no longer level up, and they all had the same gear, it'd (technically) be a level playing field since everyone actually has to use tactics to get better at the game instead of "lolz zurg rush". SHIMPLES! *makes queer meerkat noise*
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Depends on the type of game.
There is this one type of game, like LotRO or AoC, that just provide good lore and fun content. You know, games that capture the "I want to see what's next"-concept. This thing that drives you through games like Gothic or Morrowind or practically any well-made single player game.
I also had this while playing WoW, I wanted to level just to see the next zones, which were very entertaining and well made.
That's what a good PvE game provides. You wanna see and play through the coming content because it inherently seems to be fun. That's completely detached from levels or power curves and games like LotRO - where you can pretty much plough through 95% of the content in solo-quest gear - really prove this.
And then, there are games like EvE, that tell you right off the bat that there won't be any awe-inspiring PvE moments and that the game will only be fun if you find people to play with. And then - again - the power curve is something that is inherently 'there', but doesn't matter. Because you can have fun just the way you are.
Just like Warhammer, where you can pretty much contribute to PvP or PvE without having any class 1 gear at all.
What REALLY kills the spirit in games is the idea of competition between players, through PvE or PvP. Because the concept of being superior in a videogame is so essentially basement-geeky it makes my brain hurt. Still the majority of MMORPG gameplay is driven by the thought of "acquiring better gear/level/skills (TO SHOW OFF AND BE SOMEONE)".
FOrtunately, there is still a minority of grown-up casual players who still play for fun. And only for fun.
M
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Exactly, now: What can MMORPGs learn from FPSs?
That character progression is not a prerequisite of fun. A game that only featured a world and things to do in this world (explore, build, PvP and PvE) but left out progression could be perfectly successful.
Heck, LotRO, in its first year, was exactly this. You could get all the relevant gear and traits within a month. Still thousands and thousands of players stayed and played. Just for the fun and community...
M
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
im all for fun and having a goodtime but sooner or later you will get really bored with nothing to work for.
Well I know I will.
If fun was the only thing that kept people playing I woudl still be logging into Starcraft and Counterstrike.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The reason leveling sucks is because it's viewed as a preliminary part to the real game. The idea that the real game doesn't start until level cap. There's nothing wrong with a leveling process. It can be lots of fun. But if you spend the whole time trying to escape it, it becomes a chore. Base a game around the whole experience, not just around the endgame.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
im all for fun and having a goodtime but sooner or later you will get really bored with nothing to work for.
Well I know I will.
If fun was the only thing that kept people playing I woudl still be logging into Starcraft and Counterstrike.
Well there ARE still millions of players logging into countertsrike and starcraft. One of my buddies has been playing public server CS for, bah, since 1998 or something...
M
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Exactly, now: What can MMORPGs learn from FPSs?
That character progression is not a prerequisite of fun. A game that only featured a world and things to do in this world (explore, build, PvP and PvE) but left out progression could be perfectly successful.
Heck, LotRO, in its first year, was exactly this. You could get all the relevant gear and traits within a month. Still thousands and thousands of players stayed and played. Just for the fun and community...
M
Im a sandbox guy so I know a little bit about just playing in a gameworld for no reason other than to have fun but most people Need a reason to be there. Why are they teaming for Mobs? why are they pvping? Why do raids? Why gather and craft? you need something to work for other than just killing for fun.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Exactly, now: What can MMORPGs learn from FPSs?
That character progression is not a prerequisite of fun. A game that only featured a world and things to do in this world (explore, build, PvP and PvE) but left out progression could be perfectly successful.
Heck, LotRO, in its first year, was exactly this. You could get all the relevant gear and traits within a month. Still thousands and thousands of players stayed and played. Just for the fun and community...
M
Except that progression is pretty much core to the whole "RPG" aspect in general. Hell, even FPS have learned that playing the same six maps and shooting people in circles gets old really really fast without something else to motivate you. What needs to happen is alternate forms of progression, including dynamic world progression IE: Players ability to essentially "level the game world". Unfortunately with instancing and other things we're drifting away from that.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Exactly, now: What can MMORPGs learn from FPSs?
That character progression is not a prerequisite of fun. A game that only featured a world and things to do in this world (explore, build, PvP and PvE) but left out progression could be perfectly successful.
Heck, LotRO, in its first year, was exactly this. You could get all the relevant gear and traits within a month. Still thousands and thousands of players stayed and played. Just for the fun and community...
M
Except that progression is pretty much core to the whole "RPG" aspect in general. Hell, even FPS have learned that playing the same six maps and shooting people in circles gets old really really fast without something else to motivate you. What needs to happen is alternate forms of progression, including dynamic world progression IE: Players ability to essentially "level the game world". Unfortunately with instancing and other things we're drifting away from that.
I don't think pool billard, counterstrike, chess or any random card game will get old really fast. The key to this is community. You do play these games because they're fun by themselves, not because you get better while playing or you're better than your buddy or you'll get new gear when you played 1000 matches...
M
Im a sandbox guy so I know a little bit about just playing in a gameworld for no reason other than to have fun but most people Need a reason to be there. Why are they teaming for Mobs? why are they pvping? Why do raids? Why gather and craft? you need something to work for other than just killing for fun.
That's a good question. Why play at all. You're wasting your lifetime. Period. And during my years of playtime in online games, all that is left are people I met and became friends with. Sure, there were some golden game moments that became some of those long lasting memories. But all in all, it's the people who stay with you...
Not the gear or the skills or even the games... The games will vanish or change and everything you achieve will be gone...
M
Real flaws of MMO's is boring gameplay and outdated mechanics and lack of ingenuity and innovation and creativity.
I guess the genre has a lot of flaws.
Except even in games, you will 'practice' to some degree. The better games might mask it, but sparring, dps rotations etc are all practiced volunarily. Having systems that nigh require it, as in your example, agreed, is a complete flaw.
To the OP: one would assume there is only one of 2 outcomes based on your posting: that either the MMORPG community lower its expectations, or the MMORPG developpers meet the expectations of the community.
Immediately Guild Wars comes to mind. A level cap that is low, relatively speaking, and then openess thereafter? It would help merge the 2 concepts stated here.
There is absolutely a learning curve that takes place in any game. In today's MMORPG selections, this is traditionally reflected via levels. The higher a level you are, the more 'practiced', the more 'learned' one is, or is assumed to be. But then once someone is well versed, proficient, it would need to be time for them to 'leave the coop', wander out into the world, experience in a state of self-sustainment.
I think the level system is poorly implemented across titles today. It has become too much of a focus. 'You can't raid until level cap'. 'You can't do this quest until level x'. 'I don't want to do that content, I'm above the level and won't get xp'. etc etc.
I don't think levels are the flaw. I think their implementation, and the industry's focus on them is. By having a level-based system that tracks your 'learning curve', but having only a *select* few activities or content choices be limited by said levels, I think we'd be in a good place. Have a small level cap, with nothing ingame that requires you to be a specific level to not only partake in, but also be able to contribute to.
As far as the number inflation game is concerned.... that's something I couldn't disagree more with. A smattering of it is fine, but reroll Content_X, Content_Y, Content_Z but make the monsters 5% more powerful, at a point in time when the playerbase is allowed to be 5% more powerful... What a cheap marketting tactic, and insulting to the gamer. But yet, some people buy it hook, line, and sinker.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Exactly, now: What can MMORPGs learn from FPSs?
That character progression is not a prerequisite of fun. A game that only featured a world and things to do in this world (explore, build, PvP and PvE) but left out progression could be perfectly successful.
Heck, LotRO, in its first year, was exactly this. You could get all the relevant gear and traits within a month. Still thousands and thousands of players stayed and played. Just for the fun and community...
M
Except that progression is pretty much core to the whole "RPG" aspect in general. Hell, even FPS have learned that playing the same six maps and shooting people in circles gets old really really fast without something else to motivate you. What needs to happen is alternate forms of progression, including dynamic world progression IE: Players ability to essentially "level the game world". Unfortunately with instancing and other things we're drifting away from that.
I don't think pool billard, counterstrike, chess or any random card game will get old really fast. The key to this is community. You do play these games because they're fun by themselves, not because you get better while playing or you're better than your buddy or you'll get new gear when you played 1000 matches...
M
In other words, if you want an FPS game, go play one. There are many very good ones available.
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Oh, but FPS DO have progression. Or were you stuck with a pistol and/or crowbar throughout the entire game?
Sorry. But if FPS truly didn't have progression, they would be very boring.
Just a question, If everyone was the same level with the same gear what would keep you playing? Sooner or later doing the same thing over and over gets boring.
What would your goal be? Would you add in a skill hunting mechanic like in Guildwars to keep people specing and hunting so they stay subbed?
You need something to work for, A way to get better then the next guy over the long haul.
Community and fun. The same reason I've played pool billard for years. Just because it's fun. I don't get a new cue or max my super pool-skillz. Actually, I still suck as much as 10 years ago... I play with friends, sometimes I lose, sometimes I don't ...
It's essentially anti-progressive; we are all mediocre pool players at best, but we keep coming back to play the friggin game...
That is the essence of 'fun' and 'having a good time'
M
First person shooter.
No progression, just shoot, shoot, shoot.
Oh, but FPS DO have progression. Or were you stuck with a pistol and/or crowbar throughout the entire game?
Sorry. But if FPS truly didn't have progression, they would be very boring.
I'm gonna respond to your comment and then adress some of the other comments that I've seen recur in this thread.
Two of the greatest olde skool shooter mods of all time were Rocket Arena in Quake 3 and Instagib with the Fatboy mutator in Unreal Tournament. In both, all the players have the same weapons, health, armor, and no healthpacks on the map. See also every damn tournament Street Fighter knock off EVER!
The other thing to keep in mind is the fact that people are still playing arcade style games. Go check out the leadboards for Geometry Wars on XBox Live. You'll notice that the highest scores have practically rolled the score. To this day I still play Don Pachi, Raiden, Galaga, and just about every version of Pac Man. The allure is the high score. The draw of doing better than you did the last time. It isn't progress in the MMORPG sense, but it has been enough to keep me playing for decades.
And then there are Roguelikes....
These games make you start all over again every time you die. What's more, the dungeons are randomly generated and often times, the potions and scrolls are mixed up so that the effects have to be rediscovered every time you play. But I get on long kicks where I play these things obsessively. The reason is because I always want to see how much further I can get each time. To get to a deeper dungeon level. To get more gold. To get my character more powerful than the last one. Again, it isn't progression in the traditional MMORPG sense, but it is what keeps me coming back to the same game over and over again. The never ending race against myself.
....
You know what? Just go play Stone Soup Dungeon Crawl and hopefully you'll get it.