M&B is a fun game but if I'm going to be completely honest the combat could be better. The truth is you can go through entire battles using just one swing and it makes no difference. The game lets you swing right to left or left to right or overhead or thrust. But you can just swing left to right, left to right through an entire battle and it doesn't really matter.
Uh..but I should mention that I play an older version of the game so there may have been some changes I don't know about. I play an older version because in the final version they f-ed up the third person camera so badly I couldn't stand it. By the way, did they ever bother to fix that? In the final version they had the 3rd person camera crammed up so tight against the middle of your back you couldn't see anything.
I didn't like Mount and Blade combat, I thought it was clunky.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
Realistic combat like that in mound and blade needs to stay as far away from mmorpgs as possible as far as I'm concerned. The combat pales in comparison to games that aren't restricted to reality.
Agreed about realistic combat, but Darkfall is basically M&B's combat system without being terrible.
Right...Darkfalls combat is just so awesome...::rolls her eyes:: OMG - don't even go there...seriously...you do not have a clue what you are talking about. For you to even say that DF's combat is on par with M&B's tells me you do not know what you are talking about at all.
I didn't like Mount and Blade combat, I thought it was clunky.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I have the full game running patch 1.011 and the combat is still clunky at my mid 30's, I quit because I got kinda bored of it. I run that game maxed out (as if that is an accomplishment) with a steady 90+ frames. It's not a matter of disliking the combat, which I did enjoy it, however it still felt clunky.
I am a HUGE fan of Mount and Blade. I just do not get why no big games use this type of combat... It is fun and most of all it is INTUITIVE. It is easy to learn, but difficult to master. What else could a dev want in a combat mechanic? >_>
I totally disagree with Nebless though, SWG was a dynamic RPG with a strong focus on social and sandbox aspects. The M&B game mechanics do not belong in a game like SWG.... It belongs in all the linear mmorpgs that cant find a way to set themselves apart and make their game actually fun or challenging to play. Which is like... Every fraking mmorpg but a few like pre-cu SWG and EVE.
I cant wait till the M&B expansion. It is one of those few times I felt like spending money on a game was worthwhile. I felt good about it; I felt like I was getting something amazing for my money and also totally helping people out who deserve it... What a great feeling! Almost feels as good as owning the M&B world with a huge army taking down everything in your path :-D
PS, my bro and I have always wondered why no games do what M&B has done... Its not even totally a unique idea, it just is never/rarely done. Sid Meier's Pirates, released in 1987 (as old as me!), had this sort of system. Your pirate can attack downwards, upwards, or straight, and so does the enemy pirate, and you spend that part of the game deflecting enemy attacks and waiting for an opportunity to strike. Totally reminds me of M&B, but 2D.
I didn't like Mount and Blade combat, I thought it was clunky.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I have the full game running patch 1.011 and the combat is still clunky at my mid 30's, I quit because I got kinda bored of it. I run that game maxed out (as if that is an accomplishment) with a steady 90+ frames. It's not a matter of disliking the combat, which I did enjoy it, however it still felt clunky.
Well to each their own than because M&B's combat beats any games melee combat I have ever played and I have played a lot. I'll take M&B's combat over the lame crap you see in DF and MO any time - that that they call combat in DF and MO is a total joke and boring as paint drying. M&B's is fast and furious and there are tons of armor and weapons options - unlike other games that limit you to so little. Warband is incredible, fast past and takes a lot of skill and practice to get even decent at. It will definitely on cater to a certain kind of player that wishes to be challenged like never before.
Of course, M&B is easily the best combat system in ANY medieval game. Especially in the Warband beta. However, it's all a bit too much for being online, too many calculations. The closest you're gonna get is Darkfall.
I didn't like Mount and Blade combat, I thought it was clunky.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I have the full game running patch 1.011 and the combat is still clunky at my mid 30's, I quit because I got kinda bored of it. I run that game maxed out (as if that is an accomplishment) with a steady 90+ frames. It's not a matter of disliking the combat, which I did enjoy it, however it still felt clunky.
Well to each their own than because M&B's combat beats any games melee combat I have ever played and I have played a lot. I'll take M&B's combat over the lame crap you see in DF and MO any time - that that they call combat in DF and MO is a total joke and boring as paint drying. M&B's is fast and furious and there are tons of armor and weapons options - unlike other games that limit you to so little. Warband is incredible, fast past and takes a lot of skill and practice to get even decent at. It will definitely on cater to a certain kind of player that wishes to be challenged like never before.
Yup, I'm looking forward to Warband. I have watched a lot of the videos and it seems they are improving quite a bit, including the combat system. M&B deserves more attention then it gets, hopefully the Multiplayer will change that.
I may be making a target out of myself here, but I think another game (though limited to single or local area multiplayer) bears mentioning for interesting non-targeting/facing combat. Have any of you ever played Monster Hunter? It came out for the PS2, moved to the PSP and has a version coming out on the Wii this year. It's very popular in Japan and I have the latest copy on the PSP.
The combat in this game is (in my opinion) pretty darn fun and challenging. Your weapon of choice determines how you fight in combat and each is relatively unique. Since there is no targeting or auto-facing, this gives the opportunity to aim for specific parts of the monster you're hunting so you can aim for weak spots when they're exposed.
There are also different tools you can take along with you on a mission or craft in the field to help turn the battle in your favor. Traps, bombs, etc help keep combat involved and fresh, so I would recommend finding some videos of Youtube and checking it out.
Anyways, I'm curious to see if a combat system from Monster Hunter would translate well into an MMO setting. It seems to work very well in multiplayer, and Monster Hunter Tri for the Wii will have online play. What do you guys think?
On another note, I have yet to play Mount & Blade, but I am downloading the demo as we speak. I'll test it out for a while and, if the conversation's still going, try to give some helpful feedback to the conversation.
I can't imagine why people actually enjoy MMO combat? It's awful, it's always been awful. 1-2-3, repeat, then pretend like my gear and numbers didn't do all the work. Yahtzee described it best as, kicking each other in the shins until some one falls over.
This is why mob killing is a "grind", because the combat is boring as shit. It's just mindless button mashing.
M&B in theory has good combat, but the animation, collision detection and basic lack of interesting attacks really keep it from being fun. Yes, its slow and clunky and I've gotten to lvl 18 and its really not gotten any better. Sure, it has a realistic feel to it, but its just not fun which is always the problem with games trying to emulate reality. I plop it in for an hour if I have no other games to play. Overall its just not put together well, but I never expect much from an indy developer. The group commands are very limited which ruins group combat as well. The bad animation completely invalidates any merrits a combat system has. If it LOOKS terrible it is terrible...for me. Even when it was released it looked horrible. You go and play that then plop in God of War or any other GREAT combat system and its just terrible. Did the developers even watch people actually fighting with swords, an axe or a lance when they made the game? Its trying to be realistic but doesn't even look realistic at all. Thats my biggest beef with it.
Manual aiming in a MMO is always a clusterF^%&ck anyway. Unless its an instance with a few people, you just can't trust what you're seeing.
I didn't like Mount and Blade combat, I thought it was clunky.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I had no problem with the combat difficulty I didn't find the game to be hard, and I got pretty high up in levels. But the problem is with the silly vertical and horizontal system they have for blocking and swinging, as well as the whole click to pull back and release to swing. Plus using shooter style controls, with mouse look and WSAD to move, though good for shooting, doesn't work for melee, since for melee I think you really need full control of movement and buttons to form combos.
It is just an awkward system that feels more silly than anything, although functional I don't think it is very compelling.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Of course, M&B is easily the best combat system in ANY medieval game. Especially in the Warband beta. However, it's all a bit too much for being online, too many calculations. The closest you're gonna get is Darkfall.
Someone is a programmer or thinks like one. Yes, due to bandwidth concerns, MMO devs tend to embrace reducing the amount of packets being sent from clients to the bare minimum. And vice versa. This is why auto attack is so well loved by MMO devs
That being said, I have yet to play M&B indepth but from what I saw in the demo I think it's possible to bring to MMO space.
It's a tricky subject but the main reason I believe we havent really seen attempts (beyond darkfall, the devs were inspired by M&B), is due to publishers just wanting to maintain status quo and sort of stick to tradition (EQ style auto attack)
Realistic combat like that in mound and blade needs to stay as far away from mmorpgs as possible as far as I'm concerned. The combat pales in comparison to games that aren't restricted to reality.
I dont understand your point.Why wouldnt a good combat system get adapted from a new mmorpg and even polished improved? I mean we all played wow,eq,lotro etc and loads of ppl got bored with the usual auto-attack skill spam which they use. Perhaps its time for more manual based combat system ,which if they are well made they award the player's skill mostly and not just a boring skill usage sequence we see usually in the other mmorpgs. I mean after playing years wow for example it became boring to sheep inc warior -frostbolt-frost nova -blink-icelance icelance frostbolt etcetc .(Just a mage vs warrior example).Addictive gameplay always wins the day and this is the factor that is lost nowdays from the market i think.
Because it isn't a good combat system. it's dull and boring. As by the numbers as todays mmorpgs combat is, I'd rather have combat like that than poorly done combat like in Mount and Blade.
I think manual based combat system would work well in an mmorpg, but if you're looking for a non mmorpg game to use as an example, its games like Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War and Bayonetta that should be used. Not Mount and Blade, we need to go forward, not backwards.
Unfortunately, none of those systems would work well in an MMO, either. The main reason? In each of those games, you don't have to account for synchronizing animations and combat abilities firing off across numerous PCs all connected through an internet connection to a central server. The fighting is too fast-paced to ever be feasible in an MMO. Could you imagine a 40 vs. 40 match of Ryu Hayabusas on an MMO server? It would never work.
Not to mention in each of those games (save for maybe Bayonetta, as it's the only one I haven't played), almost every attack leaves the enemy reeling. Every attack has an inherent, short-duration stun. You could literally run up to a single enemy in GoW, Ninja Gaiden, and Devil May Cry and spam the light attack button and never have to worry about them even getting a chance to fight back. This is because the difficulty in those games came from the sheer number of enemies and bosses. The combat system is custom-tailored to fighting large numbers of NPCs and a boss that can ignore your attacks and pound you into the ground even when you're in the middle of a heavy attack. Without those two types of fights, or by putting a player in control of that boss, the system simply falls apart.
While it may be boring, M&B's combat system would function immensely better in an MMO.
I may be making a target out of myself here, but I think another game (though limited to single or local area multiplayer) bears mentioning for interesting non-targeting/facing combat. Have any of you ever played Monster Hunter? It came out for the PS2, moved to the PSP and has a version coming out on the Wii this year. It's very popular in Japan and I have the latest copy on the PSP. The combat in this game is (in my opinion) pretty darn fun and challenging. Your weapon of choice determines how you fight in combat and each is relatively unique. Since there is no targeting or auto-facing, this gives the opportunity to aim for specific parts of the monster you're hunting so you can aim for weak spots when they're exposed. There are also different tools you can take along with you on a mission or craft in the field to help turn the battle in your favor. Traps, bombs, etc help keep combat involved and fresh, so I would recommend finding some videos of Youtube and checking it out. Anyways, I'm curious to see if a combat system from Monster Hunter would translate well into an MMO setting. It seems to work very well in multiplayer, and Monster Hunter Tri for the Wii will have online play. What do you guys think? On another note, I have yet to play Mount & Blade, but I am downloading the demo as we speak. I'll test it out for a while and, if the conversation's still going, try to give some helpful feedback to the conversation.
I haven't tried it but from what I've heard monster hunter is more than just very popular in Japan, its an epidemic!
Anyone else remember a game called Die By the Sword from WAAAY back in 1998?
It was the first game I saw that gave you full control over your weapon. You had to control the sword with your mouse and turn with the keyboard. It may have been clunky, but even M&B is a little clunky. The only way I could see a full weapon control game giving the player absolute control over their weapon and character is with an Xbox controller because you would need two analog sticks and analog triggers for rotating the character.
As far as putting it in an MMO, it will be too much of a challenge for now. When I first heard about Age of Conan's directional attacks, I thought it might be like M&B. Unfortunately, it had almost no bearing on the game and was pretty much just fluff thrown in to slow down combat and make players feel like they are doing more than auto-attacking. Making something like this work in an MMO today would require a simplified system with pre-set angles and directions like what M&B already has. Full fluid control over the weapon would take too much bandwidth and require players to have almost no latency or it would ruin their combat experience. Trying to play with a latency of over 250 would be like playing a FPS like that. Reaction times and hits would be so far off for the player, making the game miserable for someone who would have no problem playing a game like WoW.
Haha yeah .I was trying to remember the name of that game hehe. It had mutilations choping legs ,arms like Severance.Quite brutish and was quite a game back then
M&B in theory has good combat, but the animation, collision detection and basic lack of interesting attacks really keep it from being fun. Yes, its slow and clunky and I've gotten to lvl 18 and its really not gotten any better. Sure, it has a realistic feel to it, but its just not fun which is always the problem with games trying to emulate reality.
Well a combat manual combat must be slow unless ofc u r a fun of those hilarious Df videos where someone sprintinglike koyot and bip-bip and starts running around his opponent like cazy and slashing his sword and killing him. Good ombat must be slow (not fast ) and tactical. In M&B in order to win battles and survive you have to watch the opponent's sword carefull in order to perform good times blocks etc. I guess ofc some guys consider fun more simplified types of fun. When something has good gameplay in combat it shows easilly if u had the luck and played really playbe games at past. And M&B is one of them
Of course, M&B is easily the best combat system in ANY medieval game. Especially in the Warband beta. However, it's all a bit too much for being online, too many calculations. The closest you're gonna get is Darkfall.
Tobias, I have played Warband with 40+ people and 160 bots on one server for a siege test. Some players were from Europe and some from the US. It was amazingly smooth and most pings averaged between 10 and 130. That in itself shows that FPS type melee combat works online very well. I think TaleWorlds combat system could easily be ported to even a larger scale full blown MMORPG and work just as well.
Realistic combat like that in mound and blade needs to stay as far away from mmorpgs as possible as far as I'm concerned. The combat pales in comparison to games that aren't restricted to reality.
I dont understand your point.Why wouldnt a good combat system get adapted from a new mmorpg and even polished improved? I mean we all played wow,eq,lotro etc and loads of ppl got bored with the usual auto-attack skill spam which they use. Perhaps its time for more manual based combat system ,which if they are well made they award the player's skill mostly and not just a boring skill usage sequence we see usually in the other mmorpgs. I mean after playing years wow for example it became boring to sheep inc warior -frostbolt-frost nova -blink-icelance icelance frostbolt etcetc .(Just a mage vs warrior example).Addictive gameplay always wins the day and this is the factor that is lost nowdays from the market i think.
Because it isn't a good combat system. it's dull and boring. As by the numbers as todays mmorpgs combat is, I'd rather have combat like that than poorly done combat like in Mount and Blade.
I think manual based combat system would work well in an mmorpg, but if you're looking for a non mmorpg game to use as an example, its games like Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War and Bayonetta that should be used. Not Mount and Blade, we need to go forward, not backwards.
Unfortunately, none of those systems would work well in an MMO, either. The main reason? In each of those games, you don't have to account for synchronizing animations and combat abilities firing off across numerous PCs all connected through an internet connection to a central server. The fighting is too fast-paced to ever be feasible in an MMO. Could you imagine a 40 vs. 40 match of Ryu Hayabusas on an MMO server? It would never work.
Not to mention in each of those games (save for maybe Bayonetta, as it's the only one I haven't played), almost every attack leaves the enemy reeling. Every attack has an inherent, short-duration stun. You could literally run up to a single enemy in GoW, Ninja Gaiden, and Devil May Cry and spam the light attack button and never have to worry about them even getting a chance to fight back. This is because the difficulty in those games came from the sheer number of enemies and bosses. The combat system is custom-tailored to fighting large numbers of NPCs and a boss that can ignore your attacks and pound you into the ground even when you're in the middle of a heavy attack. Without those two types of fights, or by putting a player in control of that boss, the system simply falls apart.
While it may be boring, M&B's combat system would function immensely better in an MMO.
Actually its already possible. Games like TERA Online, Continent of the Ninth and Mabinogi Heroes are currently implanting systems that are on their way to Devil May Cry like gameplay.
You can not kill any enemy just by hitting the light attack button in Ninja Gaiden. They will block your attacks and break your combo or grab you in a throw.
Realistic combat like that in mound and blade needs to stay as far away from mmorpgs as possible as far as I'm concerned. The combat pales in comparison to games that aren't restricted to reality.
I dont understand your point.Why wouldnt a good combat system get adapted from a new mmorpg and even polished improved? I mean we all played wow,eq,lotro etc and loads of ppl got bored with the usual auto-attack skill spam which they use. Perhaps its time for more manual based combat system ,which if they are well made they award the player's skill mostly and not just a boring skill usage sequence we see usually in the other mmorpgs. I mean after playing years wow for example it became boring to sheep inc warior -frostbolt-frost nova -blink-icelance icelance frostbolt etcetc .(Just a mage vs warrior example).Addictive gameplay always wins the day and this is the factor that is lost nowdays from the market i think.
Because it isn't a good combat system. it's dull and boring. As by the numbers as todays mmorpgs combat is, I'd rather have combat like that than poorly done combat like in Mount and Blade.
I think manual based combat system would work well in an mmorpg, but if you're looking for a non mmorpg game to use as an example, its games like Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War and Bayonetta that should be used. Not Mount and Blade, we need to go forward, not backwards.
Unfortunately, none of those systems would work well in an MMO, either. The main reason? In each of those games, you don't have to account for synchronizing animations and combat abilities firing off across numerous PCs all connected through an internet connection to a central server. The fighting is too fast-paced to ever be feasible in an MMO. Could you imagine a 40 vs. 40 match of Ryu Hayabusas on an MMO server? It would never work.
Not to mention in each of those games (save for maybe Bayonetta, as it's the only one I haven't played), almost every attack leaves the enemy reeling. Every attack has an inherent, short-duration stun. You could literally run up to a single enemy in GoW, Ninja Gaiden, and Devil May Cry and spam the light attack button and never have to worry about them even getting a chance to fight back. This is because the difficulty in those games came from the sheer number of enemies and bosses. The combat system is custom-tailored to fighting large numbers of NPCs and a boss that can ignore your attacks and pound you into the ground even when you're in the middle of a heavy attack. Without those two types of fights, or by putting a player in control of that boss, the system simply falls apart.
While it may be boring, M&B's combat system would function immensely better in an MMO.
Actually its already possible. Games like TERA Online, Continent of the Ninth and Mabinogi Heroes are currently implanting systems that are on their way to Devil May Cry like gameplay.
You can not kill any enemy just by hitting the light attack button in Ninja Gaiden. They will block your attacks and break your combo or grab you in a throw.
After having just finished a round of Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, I can say with assuredness that the normal enemies most certainly can be dispatched by simply tapping the light attack button. The only departure from this (as far as the grunts go) are the more hulking minions such as the Lycanthropes, but it's a simple matter of using the heavy attack instead.
As for the MMOs you cited, I've not had any experience with them. But, I would assume they aren't as fast-paced as the combat systems in Ninja Gaiden and GoW. Considering you can easily achieve (and even exceed) a hit per second in those games, it's only natural that they wouldn't port to massively multiplayer online play well. The only way to do this in a traditional MMO and not create a massive traffic jam of hit detection and latency issues is by delivering these blows in a set. For example, you can use an ability that hits 7 times in a matter of mere seconds, but the accuracy and defense checks only occur on the first blow.. If the attack passes those initial checks, the entire chain succeeds. But this isn't new to MMOs, nor does it have very much in common with the combat systems of those singleplayer games, save for the rapid animations. A workaround might be in using instanced arenas ala Global Agenda, but I find it hard to classify that game in the same group with games such as DAoC or even WoW, with it's Wintersgrasp.
Either way, it wasn't my point to say that the attack system from those games would be an impossible attempt at futility, but rather to say that M&Bs would function immensely better given technological limitations.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is a remake of Ninja Gaiden 2 for the Xbox 360. It has been dumbed down in difficulty as the previous ninja gaiden games were considered to be far too difficult.
While ofcourse the finesse of Ninja Gaiden and DMC isn't possible just yet, what I meant by using these two games as an example is that it would be better if games go for an unrealistic approach as opposed to a dull realistic one.
Of course, M&B is easily the best combat system in ANY medieval game. Especially in the Warband beta. However, it's all a bit too much for being online, too many calculations. The closest you're gonna get is Darkfall.
Tobias, I have played Warband with 40+ people and 160 bots on one server for a siege test. Some players were from Europe and some from the US. It was amazingly smooth and most pings averaged between 10 and 130. That in itself shows that FPS type melee combat works online very well. I think TaleWorlds combat system could easily be ported to even a larger scale full blown MMORPG and work just as well.
problem with using bots those are server-side entities. So, a bot doesn't have to replicate data to the server like a real client would.
I think it would've been more accurate if they had access to 160 clients that could run a bot clientside- and replicate the packets to the server. You know- like how hackers / cheaters macro their characters to servers in MMOs
That is the only way to simulate a client properly.
By having 160 bots, you are only testing server side CPU strain if you follow- its not a valid network sim sadly
edit- I'm going to see bout getting access to this warband. M&B online would be sweeeeetttt
Last night i made it lvl 6 in M&B and after gathering around 15 companions in my party i tried tohelp a nord lord vs another Lord in a 54 vs 76 ppl battle. During the fight the nords started to charge from the middle i took my 14 companions and charged the enemy from the right flank. What happened for the next 2-3 minutes is something i never saw/expirienced,lived,watched in any other similar game so far . And i play games from Amstrad cpc 128 times. My horse was hitting opponents as i charged through 74 ppl,i was slashing with my sword ,blocking when i could incoming arrows ,2-3 times i almost got blocked by 7-8 ppl that were trying to make a cyrcle around my horse ,that fewling i got from this battles was something i havent expirienced so far in a combat in any other game so far. After i saw what i saw on that, it is clear that M&B has the bext combat ever for massive battle. There were 144 npc's figthing in that area,my pc has, a 8800 gts gforce 256 memory,and i didnt notice any frame loss.It was very smooth during the fight. Its clear that this grafix engine that M&B has is ideal for massive battles in a possible mmorpg enviroment. i cant comment for DF mass battles if it is heavy loading if more than 100 ppl and npc's nearby during the fight cause i havent expirienced it yet, but i seriousy was surprised from M&B.
Comments
M&B is a fun game but if I'm going to be completely honest the combat could be better. The truth is you can go through entire battles using just one swing and it makes no difference. The game lets you swing right to left or left to right or overhead or thrust. But you can just swing left to right, left to right through an entire battle and it doesn't really matter.
Uh..but I should mention that I play an older version of the game so there may have been some changes I don't know about. I play an older version because in the final version they f-ed up the third person camera so badly I couldn't stand it. By the way, did they ever bother to fix that? In the final version they had the 3rd person camera crammed up so tight against the middle of your back you couldn't see anything.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
Agreed about realistic combat, but Darkfall is basically M&B's combat system without being terrible.
Right...Darkfalls combat is just so awesome...::rolls her eyes:: OMG - don't even go there...seriously...you do not have a clue what you are talking about. For you to even say that DF's combat is on par with M&B's tells me you do not know what you are talking about at all.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I have the full game running patch 1.011 and the combat is still clunky at my mid 30's, I quit because I got kinda bored of it. I run that game maxed out (as if that is an accomplishment) with a steady 90+ frames. It's not a matter of disliking the combat, which I did enjoy it, however it still felt clunky.
I am a HUGE fan of Mount and Blade. I just do not get why no big games use this type of combat... It is fun and most of all it is INTUITIVE. It is easy to learn, but difficult to master. What else could a dev want in a combat mechanic? >_>
I totally disagree with Nebless though, SWG was a dynamic RPG with a strong focus on social and sandbox aspects. The M&B game mechanics do not belong in a game like SWG.... It belongs in all the linear mmorpgs that cant find a way to set themselves apart and make their game actually fun or challenging to play. Which is like... Every fraking mmorpg but a few like pre-cu SWG and EVE.
I cant wait till the M&B expansion. It is one of those few times I felt like spending money on a game was worthwhile. I felt good about it; I felt like I was getting something amazing for my money and also totally helping people out who deserve it... What a great feeling! Almost feels as good as owning the M&B world with a huge army taking down everything in your path :-D
PS, my bro and I have always wondered why no games do what M&B has done... Its not even totally a unique idea, it just is never/rarely done. Sid Meier's Pirates, released in 1987 (as old as me!), had this sort of system. Your pirate can attack downwards, upwards, or straight, and so does the enemy pirate, and you spend that part of the game deflecting enemy attacks and waiting for an opportunity to strike. Totally reminds me of M&B, but 2D.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I have the full game running patch 1.011 and the combat is still clunky at my mid 30's, I quit because I got kinda bored of it. I run that game maxed out (as if that is an accomplishment) with a steady 90+ frames. It's not a matter of disliking the combat, which I did enjoy it, however it still felt clunky.
Well to each their own than because M&B's combat beats any games melee combat I have ever played and I have played a lot. I'll take M&B's combat over the lame crap you see in DF and MO any time - that that they call combat in DF and MO is a total joke and boring as paint drying. M&B's is fast and furious and there are tons of armor and weapons options - unlike other games that limit you to so little. Warband is incredible, fast past and takes a lot of skill and practice to get even decent at. It will definitely on cater to a certain kind of player that wishes to be challenged like never before.
Of course, M&B is easily the best combat system in ANY medieval game. Especially in the Warband beta. However, it's all a bit too much for being online, too many calculations. The closest you're gonna get is Darkfall.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I have the full game running patch 1.011 and the combat is still clunky at my mid 30's, I quit because I got kinda bored of it. I run that game maxed out (as if that is an accomplishment) with a steady 90+ frames. It's not a matter of disliking the combat, which I did enjoy it, however it still felt clunky.
Well to each their own than because M&B's combat beats any games melee combat I have ever played and I have played a lot. I'll take M&B's combat over the lame crap you see in DF and MO any time - that that they call combat in DF and MO is a total joke and boring as paint drying. M&B's is fast and furious and there are tons of armor and weapons options - unlike other games that limit you to so little. Warband is incredible, fast past and takes a lot of skill and practice to get even decent at. It will definitely on cater to a certain kind of player that wishes to be challenged like never before.
Yup, I'm looking forward to Warband. I have watched a lot of the videos and it seems they are improving quite a bit, including the combat system. M&B deserves more attention then it gets, hopefully the Multiplayer will change that.
I may be making a target out of myself here, but I think another game (though limited to single or local area multiplayer) bears mentioning for interesting non-targeting/facing combat. Have any of you ever played Monster Hunter? It came out for the PS2, moved to the PSP and has a version coming out on the Wii this year. It's very popular in Japan and I have the latest copy on the PSP.
The combat in this game is (in my opinion) pretty darn fun and challenging. Your weapon of choice determines how you fight in combat and each is relatively unique. Since there is no targeting or auto-facing, this gives the opportunity to aim for specific parts of the monster you're hunting so you can aim for weak spots when they're exposed.
There are also different tools you can take along with you on a mission or craft in the field to help turn the battle in your favor. Traps, bombs, etc help keep combat involved and fresh, so I would recommend finding some videos of Youtube and checking it out.
Anyways, I'm curious to see if a combat system from Monster Hunter would translate well into an MMO setting. It seems to work very well in multiplayer, and Monster Hunter Tri for the Wii will have online play. What do you guys think?
On another note, I have yet to play Mount & Blade, but I am downloading the demo as we speak. I'll test it out for a while and, if the conversation's still going, try to give some helpful feedback to the conversation.
I can't imagine why people actually enjoy MMO combat? It's awful, it's always been awful. 1-2-3, repeat, then pretend like my gear and numbers didn't do all the work. Yahtzee described it best as, kicking each other in the shins until some one falls over.
This is why mob killing is a "grind", because the combat is boring as shit. It's just mindless button mashing.
M&B in theory has good combat, but the animation, collision detection and basic lack of interesting attacks really keep it from being fun. Yes, its slow and clunky and I've gotten to lvl 18 and its really not gotten any better. Sure, it has a realistic feel to it, but its just not fun which is always the problem with games trying to emulate reality. I plop it in for an hour if I have no other games to play. Overall its just not put together well, but I never expect much from an indy developer. The group commands are very limited which ruins group combat as well. The bad animation completely invalidates any merrits a combat system has. If it LOOKS terrible it is terrible...for me. Even when it was released it looked horrible. You go and play that then plop in God of War or any other GREAT combat system and its just terrible. Did the developers even watch people actually fighting with swords, an axe or a lance when they made the game? Its trying to be realistic but doesn't even look realistic at all. Thats my biggest beef with it.
Manual aiming in a MMO is always a clusterF^%&ck anyway. Unless its an instance with a few people, you just can't trust what you're seeing.
Because you only played the demo to what level 6? Mount and Blades combat gets better as your toon gets better - combat becomes very fast and smooth. When people say it is clunky it is because they either played an old version or just the demo t olike level 6. That is in the single player game. In the multiplayer game combat is very smooth and very fast...in fact some say it is to fast. See in Mount and Blade swords and shields and such can parry or block attacks and it is done manually on most servers...no auto-blocking here. So to be good at melee you must be able to anticipate your opponents attack and block accordingly. It is not easy when they are attacking all kinds of angles and very quickly. Timing is everything in this game.
M&B combat is not for everyone. It is easy to learn...but it is a bitch to master. That is for sure.
I had no problem with the combat difficulty I didn't find the game to be hard, and I got pretty high up in levels. But the problem is with the silly vertical and horizontal system they have for blocking and swinging, as well as the whole click to pull back and release to swing. Plus using shooter style controls, with mouse look and WSAD to move, though good for shooting, doesn't work for melee, since for melee I think you really need full control of movement and buttons to form combos.
It is just an awkward system that feels more silly than anything, although functional I don't think it is very compelling.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Someone is a programmer or thinks like one. Yes, due to bandwidth concerns, MMO devs tend to embrace reducing the amount of packets being sent from clients to the bare minimum. And vice versa. This is why auto attack is so well loved by MMO devs
That being said, I have yet to play M&B indepth but from what I saw in the demo I think it's possible to bring to MMO space.
It's a tricky subject but the main reason I believe we havent really seen attempts (beyond darkfall, the devs were inspired by M&B), is due to publishers just wanting to maintain status quo and sort of stick to tradition (EQ style auto attack)
I would love to see M&B system in an mmo. I have played a little of DF and the system has similarities to M&B, and imo the closest out there.
I get bored with auto attacks and I am a casual gamer, I just want a little more realism in mmo's.
I dont understand your point.Why wouldnt a good combat system get adapted from a new mmorpg and even polished improved? I mean we all played wow,eq,lotro etc and loads of ppl got bored with the usual auto-attack skill spam which they use. Perhaps its time for more manual based combat system ,which if they are well made they award the player's skill mostly and not just a boring skill usage sequence we see usually in the other mmorpgs. I mean after playing years wow for example it became boring to sheep inc warior -frostbolt-frost nova -blink-icelance icelance frostbolt etcetc .(Just a mage vs warrior example).Addictive gameplay always wins the day and this is the factor that is lost nowdays from the market i think.
Because it isn't a good combat system. it's dull and boring. As by the numbers as todays mmorpgs combat is, I'd rather have combat like that than poorly done combat like in Mount and Blade.
I think manual based combat system would work well in an mmorpg, but if you're looking for a non mmorpg game to use as an example, its games like Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War and Bayonetta that should be used. Not Mount and Blade, we need to go forward, not backwards.
Unfortunately, none of those systems would work well in an MMO, either. The main reason? In each of those games, you don't have to account for synchronizing animations and combat abilities firing off across numerous PCs all connected through an internet connection to a central server. The fighting is too fast-paced to ever be feasible in an MMO. Could you imagine a 40 vs. 40 match of Ryu Hayabusas on an MMO server? It would never work.
Not to mention in each of those games (save for maybe Bayonetta, as it's the only one I haven't played), almost every attack leaves the enemy reeling. Every attack has an inherent, short-duration stun. You could literally run up to a single enemy in GoW, Ninja Gaiden, and Devil May Cry and spam the light attack button and never have to worry about them even getting a chance to fight back. This is because the difficulty in those games came from the sheer number of enemies and bosses. The combat system is custom-tailored to fighting large numbers of NPCs and a boss that can ignore your attacks and pound you into the ground even when you're in the middle of a heavy attack. Without those two types of fights, or by putting a player in control of that boss, the system simply falls apart.
While it may be boring, M&B's combat system would function immensely better in an MMO.
I haven't tried it but from what I've heard monster hunter is more than just very popular in Japan, its an epidemic!
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Haha yeah .I was trying to remember the name of that game hehe. It had mutilations choping legs ,arms like Severance.Quite brutish and was quite a game back then
Well a combat manual combat must be slow unless ofc u r a fun of those hilarious Df videos where someone sprintinglike koyot and bip-bip and starts running around his opponent like cazy and slashing his sword and killing him. Good ombat must be slow (not fast ) and tactical. In M&B in order to win battles and survive you have to watch the opponent's sword carefull in order to perform good times blocks etc. I guess ofc some guys consider fun more simplified types of fun. When something has good gameplay in combat it shows easilly if u had the luck and played really playbe games at past. And M&B is one of them
Tobias, I have played Warband with 40+ people and 160 bots on one server for a siege test. Some players were from Europe and some from the US. It was amazingly smooth and most pings averaged between 10 and 130. That in itself shows that FPS type melee combat works online very well. I think TaleWorlds combat system could easily be ported to even a larger scale full blown MMORPG and work just as well.
I dont understand your point.Why wouldnt a good combat system get adapted from a new mmorpg and even polished improved? I mean we all played wow,eq,lotro etc and loads of ppl got bored with the usual auto-attack skill spam which they use. Perhaps its time for more manual based combat system ,which if they are well made they award the player's skill mostly and not just a boring skill usage sequence we see usually in the other mmorpgs. I mean after playing years wow for example it became boring to sheep inc warior -frostbolt-frost nova -blink-icelance icelance frostbolt etcetc .(Just a mage vs warrior example).Addictive gameplay always wins the day and this is the factor that is lost nowdays from the market i think.
Because it isn't a good combat system. it's dull and boring. As by the numbers as todays mmorpgs combat is, I'd rather have combat like that than poorly done combat like in Mount and Blade.
I think manual based combat system would work well in an mmorpg, but if you're looking for a non mmorpg game to use as an example, its games like Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War and Bayonetta that should be used. Not Mount and Blade, we need to go forward, not backwards.
Unfortunately, none of those systems would work well in an MMO, either. The main reason? In each of those games, you don't have to account for synchronizing animations and combat abilities firing off across numerous PCs all connected through an internet connection to a central server. The fighting is too fast-paced to ever be feasible in an MMO. Could you imagine a 40 vs. 40 match of Ryu Hayabusas on an MMO server? It would never work.
Not to mention in each of those games (save for maybe Bayonetta, as it's the only one I haven't played), almost every attack leaves the enemy reeling. Every attack has an inherent, short-duration stun. You could literally run up to a single enemy in GoW, Ninja Gaiden, and Devil May Cry and spam the light attack button and never have to worry about them even getting a chance to fight back. This is because the difficulty in those games came from the sheer number of enemies and bosses. The combat system is custom-tailored to fighting large numbers of NPCs and a boss that can ignore your attacks and pound you into the ground even when you're in the middle of a heavy attack. Without those two types of fights, or by putting a player in control of that boss, the system simply falls apart.
While it may be boring, M&B's combat system would function immensely better in an MMO.
Actually its already possible. Games like TERA Online, Continent of the Ninth and Mabinogi Heroes are currently implanting systems that are on their way to Devil May Cry like gameplay.
You can not kill any enemy just by hitting the light attack button in Ninja Gaiden. They will block your attacks and break your combo or grab you in a throw.
I dont understand your point.Why wouldnt a good combat system get adapted from a new mmorpg and even polished improved? I mean we all played wow,eq,lotro etc and loads of ppl got bored with the usual auto-attack skill spam which they use. Perhaps its time for more manual based combat system ,which if they are well made they award the player's skill mostly and not just a boring skill usage sequence we see usually in the other mmorpgs. I mean after playing years wow for example it became boring to sheep inc warior -frostbolt-frost nova -blink-icelance icelance frostbolt etcetc .(Just a mage vs warrior example).Addictive gameplay always wins the day and this is the factor that is lost nowdays from the market i think.
Because it isn't a good combat system. it's dull and boring. As by the numbers as todays mmorpgs combat is, I'd rather have combat like that than poorly done combat like in Mount and Blade.
I think manual based combat system would work well in an mmorpg, but if you're looking for a non mmorpg game to use as an example, its games like Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War and Bayonetta that should be used. Not Mount and Blade, we need to go forward, not backwards.
Unfortunately, none of those systems would work well in an MMO, either. The main reason? In each of those games, you don't have to account for synchronizing animations and combat abilities firing off across numerous PCs all connected through an internet connection to a central server. The fighting is too fast-paced to ever be feasible in an MMO. Could you imagine a 40 vs. 40 match of Ryu Hayabusas on an MMO server? It would never work.
Not to mention in each of those games (save for maybe Bayonetta, as it's the only one I haven't played), almost every attack leaves the enemy reeling. Every attack has an inherent, short-duration stun. You could literally run up to a single enemy in GoW, Ninja Gaiden, and Devil May Cry and spam the light attack button and never have to worry about them even getting a chance to fight back. This is because the difficulty in those games came from the sheer number of enemies and bosses. The combat system is custom-tailored to fighting large numbers of NPCs and a boss that can ignore your attacks and pound you into the ground even when you're in the middle of a heavy attack. Without those two types of fights, or by putting a player in control of that boss, the system simply falls apart.
While it may be boring, M&B's combat system would function immensely better in an MMO.
Actually its already possible. Games like TERA Online, Continent of the Ninth and Mabinogi Heroes are currently implanting systems that are on their way to Devil May Cry like gameplay.
You can not kill any enemy just by hitting the light attack button in Ninja Gaiden. They will block your attacks and break your combo or grab you in a throw.
After having just finished a round of Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, I can say with assuredness that the normal enemies most certainly can be dispatched by simply tapping the light attack button. The only departure from this (as far as the grunts go) are the more hulking minions such as the Lycanthropes, but it's a simple matter of using the heavy attack instead.
As for the MMOs you cited, I've not had any experience with them. But, I would assume they aren't as fast-paced as the combat systems in Ninja Gaiden and GoW. Considering you can easily achieve (and even exceed) a hit per second in those games, it's only natural that they wouldn't port to massively multiplayer online play well. The only way to do this in a traditional MMO and not create a massive traffic jam of hit detection and latency issues is by delivering these blows in a set. For example, you can use an ability that hits 7 times in a matter of mere seconds, but the accuracy and defense checks only occur on the first blow.. If the attack passes those initial checks, the entire chain succeeds. But this isn't new to MMOs, nor does it have very much in common with the combat systems of those singleplayer games, save for the rapid animations. A workaround might be in using instanced arenas ala Global Agenda, but I find it hard to classify that game in the same group with games such as DAoC or even WoW, with it's Wintersgrasp.
Either way, it wasn't my point to say that the attack system from those games would be an impossible attempt at futility, but rather to say that M&Bs would function immensely better given technological limitations.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is a remake of Ninja Gaiden 2 for the Xbox 360. It has been dumbed down in difficulty as the previous ninja gaiden games were considered to be far too difficult.
While ofcourse the finesse of Ninja Gaiden and DMC isn't possible just yet, what I meant by using these two games as an example is that it would be better if games go for an unrealistic approach as opposed to a dull realistic one.
Tobias, I have played Warband with 40+ people and 160 bots on one server for a siege test. Some players were from Europe and some from the US. It was amazingly smooth and most pings averaged between 10 and 130. That in itself shows that FPS type melee combat works online very well. I think TaleWorlds combat system could easily be ported to even a larger scale full blown MMORPG and work just as well.
problem with using bots those are server-side entities. So, a bot doesn't have to replicate data to the server like a real client would.
I think it would've been more accurate if they had access to 160 clients that could run a bot clientside- and replicate the packets to the server. You know- like how hackers / cheaters macro their characters to servers in MMOs
That is the only way to simulate a client properly.
By having 160 bots, you are only testing server side CPU strain if you follow- its not a valid network sim sadly
edit- I'm going to see bout getting access to this warband. M&B online would be sweeeeetttt
Last night i made it lvl 6 in M&B and after gathering around 15 companions in my party i tried tohelp a nord lord vs another Lord in a 54 vs 76 ppl battle. During the fight the nords started to charge from the middle i took my 14 companions and charged the enemy from the right flank. What happened for the next 2-3 minutes is something i never saw/expirienced,lived,watched in any other similar game so far . And i play games from Amstrad cpc 128 times. My horse was hitting opponents as i charged through 74 ppl,i was slashing with my sword ,blocking when i could incoming arrows ,2-3 times i almost got blocked by 7-8 ppl that were trying to make a cyrcle around my horse ,that fewling i got from this battles was something i havent expirienced so far in a combat in any other game so far. After i saw what i saw on that, it is clear that M&B has the bext combat ever for massive battle. There were 144 npc's figthing in that area,my pc has, a 8800 gts gforce 256 memory,and i didnt notice any frame loss.It was very smooth during the fight. Its clear that this grafix engine that M&B has is ideal for massive battles in a possible mmorpg enviroment. i cant comment for DF mass battles if it is heavy loading if more than 100 ppl and npc's nearby during the fight cause i havent expirienced it yet, but i seriousy was surprised from M&B.
Compared to which combat systems exactly? Wow? Rift? ?