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At least two non-mmo geeks want player crews...
Cerion
Member Posts: 1,005
So this past weekend, I visited friends for our monthly board game/RPG session. The host is a board game freak--he's got one of the most massive board game collections ever -- European games with strange, but innovative and fun mechanics, games written in foreign languages in which he has to scour the internet for rules translations. He's sampled two MMOs, (mainly because I'm an MMO geek) but found them wanting.
My second friend is a chemist, a real newbie when it comes to MMOs -- we all played DDO for about a month (again, at my prompting), but that came to an end as real life threw us some curves.
They are not forum hounds. They don't follow the debates. They are Star Trek geeks however, moreso than even me. So I mentioned to them this weekend about STO releasing in February. They both had only heard about it in passing -- as in, "Yeah, we heard there might be some sort of Star Trek MMO out there."
And to my utter surprise, through no more prompting from me than "I'm not happy with the direction STO's going" my two friends jumped in and started describing exactly what THEY, the non-mmo, Star Trek geeks, would like to see in a Star Trek MMO.
- Yep, Player crews
- Manned stations
- A bridge view
- Real time crafting mini-game for the Chief Engineer
- Explorable ships (ship interiors)
- events happening on board your ship
- Away teams (which I assured them, were actually in the game)
What really shocked me was that they came up with these ideas without any words from me, without any suggestions, nor encouragement. I just let them talk, because frankly I was thinking, "Damn, this is going to make a great MMORPG.com thread" lol.
Not once did they mention:
- Wanting to be a captain
- Wanting exterior, over the hull, view
- Wanting Extensive combat.
There you have it. Yes, a small sample size to be sure. Anecdotal evidence? Yep. But fascinating nonetheless.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Comments
Anecdotal, yes. It also coincides with what my Wife (a Trekkie) and her friends (more Trekkies) also feel about the game. Their interests are in landing and learning about new cultures, being on the same ship together, bridge view, and doing class specific tasks. I haven't heard them once take up the topic of combat, except for when they've said they hope there isn't much since the prime directive (don't hang me if I got that wrong, I'm not a Trekkie) says something about not interfering with certain civilizations.
There are certain things that I, as an MMO player, look forward to that they didn't really care for. One was the ability to make up your own race. I don't remember their arguments against it, but they unanimously didn't like it. The other thing was a dislike for Klingon as PvP only, which leads me to believe we'll see a lot of human characters with Klingon names that look very Klingon and act very Klingon.
Trekkies I talk to at work seem to feel the same way as well.
From what I've seen so far, I'm hoping this game appeals to MMO gamers, because it sure as heck doesn't seem like it will be made for Trekkies.
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I was with you up till number 4. If these were not mmo players, they wouldn't even know what crafting is or expect it for just the chief engineer. Sorry, I have to call BS on this one.
All the others I can see a star trek geek wanting though, and don't have a problem with it. It again, goes back to what I have said all along. ST is such a huge IP that everyone is going to have their own vision of what it should be. The version that is being given to us is Cryptics vision of how they think STO should be with relation to MMO mechanics and fun and within dev time limits. The fact that this is an MMO changes a lot of rules from a standard single player game and concessions have to be made for some over all fun factors.
I know at least 4 star trek fans that don't care about player crews, does that mean we win?
Honestly it sounds like what your friends want is a single-player Star Trek RPG, rather than an MMO.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Of course you have to call BS on this. Any evidence that betrays your mindset has to be dismissed wholesale. But if you'd noticed, I said that one of my friends, the Host, has played a few MMOs. I never said they were completly devoid of any MMO knowledge. My friend who hosts our gaming sessions knows the concept of crafting. It's not a difficult one to grasp. But both of my friends are not MMO freaks, and pay them little attention in the general course of their lives.
I imagine that would change if MMOs actually offered them something fun to play. And what they described was what they both thought was fun.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Of course you have to call BS on this. Any evidence that betrays your mindset has to be dismissed wholesale. But if you'd noticed, I said that one of my friends, the Host, has played a few MMOs. I never said they were completly devoid of any MMO knowledge. My friend who hosts our gaming sessions knows the concept of crafting. It's not a difficult one to grasp. But both of my friends are not MMO freaks, and pay them little attention in the general course of their lives.
I imagine that would change if MMOs actually offered them something fun to play. And what they described was what they both thought was fun.
You nailed it there...what THEY thought was fun. "They", not everyone.
Blurr, not a pissing contest here. Sorry. You can go to another thread if you'd like.
I just thought it was fascinating that two people, unprompted, described a game that many of us forum hounds here would like to see.
And no, they don't want a Single Player RPG. They just have a more visionary idea of what an MMO can be than you. Sorry you're so confined to your box.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
All of which means exactly jack squat to the people playing or who will play those games.The Old Republic is going to do just fine regardless of whether or not I play the game. So what would the point be to go to the forums and consistently say that the game will fail because of the graphics?
First trinkets, then the Z- axis and now confessionals from two non MMO players. Seriously, you guys are starting to look desperate. A bit of advice: If you want something to fail, you don't give it free publicity by constantly bashing it. For examples see the free publicity given to "Passion of the Christ" and "The Da Vinci Code."
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Of course you have to call BS on this. Any evidence that betrays your mindset has to be dismissed wholesale. But if you'd noticed, I said that one of my friends, the Host, has played a few MMOs. I never said they were completly devoid of any MMO knowledge. My friend who hosts our gaming sessions knows the concept of crafting. It's not a difficult one to grasp. But both of my friends are not MMO freaks, and pay them little attention in the general course of their lives.
I imagine that would change if MMOs actually offered them something fun to play. And what they described was what they both thought was fun.
You nailed it there...what THEY thought was fun. "They", not everyone.
Wow, the defense is tight tonight -- should go to some play action passing I guess. lol. Where did I say "Everyone". Where did I hint at 'everyone'? I think I've been pretty clear that it was two of my friends, and their opinion.
The interesting part is that they came to these ideas out of the blue -- they don't follow forums, they don't participate in the minutae of the discussions we have here.
That is what I find so compelling.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
I am not defending anything. I just thought your topic itself is funny. STO is what it is at current form. There will not be enough thread or voice to make Cryptic change how they make the game at this stage of game. As someone else point out, everyone will have their own vision of STO. I know there is a lot of voice in the forum on how STO is suppose to be. Then again, I am sure there are plenty if not more people would like how Cryptic's STO is. There is no way Cryptic can make everyone happy. They are a company and I am pretty sure they aim for what appeal to mass.
Haha, another defensive post. Where did I say I want STO to fail? In fact I want it to succeed. I'm just not an enabler like so many of you here.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Haha, another defensive post. Where did I say I want STO to fail? In fact I want it to succeed. I'm just not an enabler like so many of you here.
You're right, my mistake.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Of course you have to call BS on this. Any evidence that betrays your mindset has to be dismissed wholesale. But if you'd noticed, I said that one of my friends, the Host, has played a few MMOs. I never said they were completly devoid of any MMO knowledge. My friend who hosts our gaming sessions knows the concept of crafting. It's not a difficult one to grasp. But both of my friends are not MMO freaks, and pay them little attention in the general course of their lives.
I imagine that would change if MMOs actually offered them something fun to play. And what they described was what they both thought was fun.
You nailed it there...what THEY thought was fun. "They", not everyone.
Wow, the defense is tight tonight -- should go to some play action passing I guess. lol. Where did I say "Everyone". Where did I hint at 'everyone'? I think I've been pretty clear that it was two of my friends, and their opinion.
The interesting part is that they came to these ideas out of the blue -- they don't follow forums, they don't participate in the minutae of the discussions we have here.
That is what I find so compelling.
You thought those ideas were interesting because they don't follow the forums? I would say anyone who is a trekkie or trekker has thought up many many things that they would want to play in their version of STO. Personally I didn't find anything they said to be anything out of the ordinary for a huge trek geek. But the thing is, STO wasn't made just for trek geeks. It was made to try and please a wide variety of people, non trekkies alike. Because of that exact reason, many of the things that ST geeks feel that should be in the game, wont be in there, at least at the start, simply because non trekkies are not going to understand those concepts.
Actually, their shooting for 100k subs. That's been stated by Cryptic. Hardly 'the masses' don't you think?
I know STO isn't going to have any massive change at this point. But they certainly can add things after launch. They've said if there's enough demand, they'll add many different things to the game. Consider this post in that light.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Of course you have to call BS on this. Any evidence that betrays your mindset has to be dismissed wholesale. But if you'd noticed, I said that one of my friends, the Host, has played a few MMOs. I never said they were completly devoid of any MMO knowledge. My friend who hosts our gaming sessions knows the concept of crafting. It's not a difficult one to grasp. But both of my friends are not MMO freaks, and pay them little attention in the general course of their lives.
I imagine that would change if MMOs actually offered them something fun to play. And what they described was what they both thought was fun.
My mindset? You mean, My open mindset to some one elses vision of a game and am willing to try it without having any preconceived notions about it? No, the reason I called BS is for a few reasons. You stated that they had played a couple mmos in the past and felt there was no fun factor. Very few mmos have ever had what anyone could consider, fun, with crafting. So I seriously doubt that either of them spent more than a few minutes crafting. Then for crafting to be in that list for people who don't particularly like MMO's just seems like an impossibility. And lets not forget the added mention of crafting for the engineer. Of all the manned stations of a star ship that both of these folks would pick crafting for an engineer also seems far fetched. That is why I call BS on that one item.
Alright this is a notice to ALL Trekkies. I like the Trek, but I'm far from a Trekkie.
Think of this MMO as playing towards the same schema that the recent Enterprise movie was built on.
It's no secret that most Trekkies despised the movie because it didn't have anything most of you are describing. STO is going the same route. No long debates about human rights abuses and the prime directive, no trips down the pained life of a borg, no romp around the mind of a shapeshifter.
Rawr.
I am a Trekker and I enjoyed the new movie and I am gonna give this game a try to see if its fun
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
It's self-evident given standard procedure of MMORPG developers these days to fish in as many casual player idiots as they can.
Uh yeah, considering your thread title "At least two.." I figured I'd respond in kind. You do realize that you created the title, right? I was simply pointing out that I have also talked to people, unprompted, who disagree with the idea of player crews. Many people also don't seem to care about them, as it's been a long time since any but a select few discussed it with any seriousness.
I love the insults you throw in though.
I tell you what, get your friends to make their "visionary" MMO, and I guarantee I will subscribe to it. As I'm sure you must know (anyone with a modicum of experience with the genre), the stuff they describe doesn't exactly lend itself to what you would call a "popular" mmo. Honestly, go play Puzzle Pirates, see how long you can have fun in the game when you're always just doing the bilge pump.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I don't consider myself as a trekker or trekkie. I simply am a big fan of star trek in general. The new movie I have to say that I did not enjoy it as well as I thought I was going to. I mean, it was an ok movie but I really hate alternate time line universes for the most part and I think that was my biggest dislike of the movie. My other issue that pretty much started with ds9 was the whole conversion from exploration to war. I hated the look of the new enterprise in the tng movies as it completely changed (in my mind) the entire star trek genre from exploration to all militia and that is NOT star trek. Whats also interesting is that I to will be trying this game and it is set in a time of war, however, its a video game so I have no problems with that.
I think the peaceful exploration aspect of Star Trek was championed by Roddenberry and as soon as he died certain people who wanted a more action oriented Star Trek got their wish.
also the alternate time line aspect was the best thing to me as it didnt erase TOS
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
I can do you one better. Im not going to sift through all the tons of information to find you a link that you can find yourself. However, I will suggest that you go back and watch some of the videos that have been put out there by cryptic, describing the game. heck, even go back and watch the big announcement of them having the ip. I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there.
Actually, their shooting for 100k subs. That's been stated by Cryptic. Hardly 'the masses' don't you think?
I know STO isn't going to have any massive change at this point. But they certainly can add things after launch. They've said if there's enough demand, they'll add many different things to the game. Consider this post in that light.
Honestly, perhaps you and your friends should take Dana up on his offer to write an article on your vision of creating a successful Star Trek MMO (the one MMO_Doubter failed to do).
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Action oriented I can handle. But not the dark military war style that they started going down. I even remember seeing a video of some of the writers or producers talking about it after the fact that they wanted to bring more darkness into the ST universe and I think that was one of the problems with the shows losing watchers, because it was not really star trek. It was more like star wars or Battlestar Galactica.
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
I can do you one better. Im not going to sift through all the tons of information to find you a link that you can find yourself. However, I will suggest that you go back and watch some of the videos that have been put out there by cryptic, describing the game. heck, even go back and watch the big announcement of them having the ip. I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there.
" I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there."
Ok, so we both agree that you haven't a clue if anything like that was ever said and it's just your assumption. I'm glad we're both on the same page here.
The OP posted anecdotal evidence and stated clearly that it was anecdotal. The more you guys rally your pitchforks at him, the more obvious it is that it isn't that you think he's said anything incorrect but that he's said something you don't want to hear.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?