I think the peaceful exploration aspect of Star Trek was championed by Roddenberry and as soon as he died certain people who wanted a more action oriented Star Trek got their wish.
Action oriented I can handle. But not the dark military war style that they started going down. I even remember seeing a video of some of the writers or producers talking about it after the fact that they wanted to bring more darkness into the ST universe and I think that was one of the problems with the shows losing watchers, because it was not really star trek. It was more like star wars or Battlestar Galactica.
no real surprise that the guy who was the show runner for TNG,DS9 went on to be the creative force behind Battlestar Gallactica
But the thing is, STO wasn't made just for trek geeks.
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
I can do you one better. Im not going to sift through all the tons of information to find you a link that you can find yourself. However, I will suggest that you go back and watch some of the videos that have been put out there by cryptic, describing the game. heck, even go back and watch the big announcement of them having the ip. I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there.
" I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there."
Ok, so we both agree that you haven't a clue if anything like that was ever said and it's just your assumption. I'm glad we're both on the same page here.
The OP posted anecdotal evidence and stated clearly that it was anecdotal. The more you guys rally your pitchforks at him, the more obvious it is that it isn't that you think he's said anything incorrect but that he's said something you don't want to hear.
And you would be wrong. It has been said, but I can't remember which video it was in. Not assumption. You can look for it if you like, or not, I really don't care.
because its easier to nitpick something than to be constructive
Wow.. I think.. I think he just won every forum ever.
I tip my hat to you sir.
roach5000 1, internet forums 0
what do I get?
but its the truth. Its way to easy to come in here day after day preaching doom and fail. A chance was given to write an article. Be constructive and tell us how you'd do it. I wish someone would offer me a chance to write an article
because its easier to nitpick something than to be constructive
Wow.. I think.. I think he just won every forum ever.
I tip my hat to you sir.
roach5000 1, internet forums 0
what do I get?
but its the truth. Its way to easy to come in here day after day preaching doom and fail. A chance was given to write an article. Be constructive and tell us how you'd do it. I wish someone would offer me a chance to write an article
Plenty have done the later (myself included), but that's not really going to change STO, now is it? Frankly, a lot of us have seen plenty of rushed MMOs. War, Conan, Champions Online, etc. I think almost no MMO players want a game to get rushed out the door and go out incomplete. The fact that STO displays pretty much all the classic signs of a rushed game is quite notable. It isn't nitpicking to say the Klingons don't have any significant PvE content and are only half done (a Dev even said the only reason the Klingons didn't get the same treatment as the Federation is because of time). It isn't nitpicking to notice even people who have largely been supportive of the game seem to wonder how they can possibly polish and fix most of the problems in beta in the amount of time they have left (Dana in his first preview). It isn't nitpicking to notice that the non-combat content seems extremely weak, when it was a core of all of the shows, and that, from all we have seen and been told, the Feds just go around killing people left and right and that's not in-line with the IP -- and no, it isn't nitpicking to want a game that at least tries to capture some of the core elements of the show, such as trying for non-violent resolutions (and successful MMOs without combat can exist just fine, see A Tale in the Desert, though obviously a Star Trek game would have some combat in it). I can see how some of the complaints might be nitpicking...some of them probably are, but there are plenty of complaints that are significant problems with the game; there are plenty of problems that do indicate this is just another rushed MMO with content and quality cut from the product to get it out the door in a pretty absurdly short amount of time (2 years).
Now, I'm not saying some people aren't going to like this game and support it no matter what. That sort of thing happens with all games it seems, no matter how awful the game is. While from a developer perspective it might not seem constructive to point out how this seems to be yet another rushed game, it is certainly constructive from a player perspective, as it informs the potential buyer to consider their decision carefully (and therefore ideally helps them spend their money more wisely).
But the thing is, STO wasn't made just for trek geeks.
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
I can do you one better. Im not going to sift through all the tons of information to find you a link that you can find yourself. However, I will suggest that you go back and watch some of the videos that have been put out there by cryptic, describing the game. heck, even go back and watch the big announcement of them having the ip. I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there.
" I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there."
Ok, so we both agree that you haven't a clue if anything like that was ever said and it's just your assumption. I'm glad we're both on the same page here.
The OP posted anecdotal evidence and stated clearly that it was anecdotal. The more you guys rally your pitchforks at him, the more obvious it is that it isn't that you think he's said anything incorrect but that he's said something you don't want to hear.
The Devs have simultaneously tried to court Trekkies and non-Trekkies. So some of the time they talk about how the game is designed for a wider audience and hence ignores things Trekkies would want, and other times they talk about how the game should really appeal to Trekkies. Honestly it didn't sound like a design vision more than they really wanted all potential customers to stay interested in the product, though they did talk about it a bit with ranged healing when they said that having to be next to someone to heal them wasn't/wouldn't be fun.
It may not seem much roach, but if it helps any, I'll change my sig to quote you
As far as the MMOs with no combat being successful, most people haven't heard of ATITD, and it obviously cost far less to make than any STO game ever, but lets move on.
Regarding the development time, remember also that Cryptic already had an engine they just needed to plug in Star Trek content to. Where another company would have to spend 2 more years developing their own engine from the ground up (and even then they may not get it right), Cryptic can skip a large part of that time and move straight to putting things into the game. Whether you think the game is rushed even so, you still have to admit that this would signifigantly cut down the amount of time they would need to develop the game.
I think people really need to try the game before they give it feedback (whether good or bad).
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
It may not seem much roach, but if it helps any, I'll change my sig to quote you As far as the MMOs with no combat being successful, most people haven't heard of ATITD, and it obviously cost far less to make than any STO game ever, but lets move on. Regarding the development time, remember also that Cryptic already had an engine they just needed to plug in Star Trek content to. Where another company would have to spend 2 more years developing their own engine from the ground up (and even then they may not get it right), Cryptic can skip a large part of that time and move straight to putting things into the game. Whether you think the game is rushed even so, you still have to admit that this would signifigantly cut down the amount of time they would need to develop the game.
Except other Dev teams (such as Mythic, I believe) have said having an engine cuts out ONE YEAR of Dev time. And also Cryptic already tried this "rush it out the door in 2 years" approach with CO and that didn't work out too well. Yes, it has some rabid fans, but it is desperately trying to regain customers by offering free weekends left and right and it has generally been panned by players.
Frankly, acting like they had enough time to get things done is silly. They already admitted they had to cut all work on significant Klingon PvE content because they didn't have enough time and it is a pretty major cut when you are stripping down one of the two release factions.
because its easier to nitpick something than to be constructive
Wow.. I think.. I think he just won every forum ever.
I tip my hat to you sir.
roach5000 1, internet forums 0
what do I get?
but its the truth. Its way to easy to come in here day after day preaching doom and fail. A chance was given to write an article. Be constructive and tell us how you'd do it. I wish someone would offer me a chance to write an article
Plenty have done the later (myself included), but that's not really going to change STO, now is it? Frankly, a lot of us have seen plenty of rushed MMOs. War, Conan, Champions Online, etc. I think almost no MMO players want a game to get rushed out the door and go out incomplete. The fact that STO displays pretty much all the classic signs of a rushed game is quite notable. It isn't nitpicking to say the Klingons don't have any significant PvE content and are only half done (a Dev even said the only reason the Klingons didn't get the same treatment as the Federation is because of time). It isn't nitpicking to notice even people who have largely been supportive of the game seem to wonder how they can possibly polish and fix most of the problems in beta in the amount of time they have left (Dana in his first preview). It isn't nitpicking to notice that the non-combat content seems extremely weak, when it was a core of all of the shows, and that, from all we have seen and been told, the Feds just go around killing people left and right and that's not in-line with the IP -- and no, it isn't nitpicking to want a game that at least tries to capture some of the core elements of the show, such as trying for non-violent resolutions (and successful MMOs without combat can exist just fine, see A Tale in the Desert, though obviously a Star Trek game would have some combat in it). I can see how some of the complaints might be nitpicking...some of them probably are, but there are plenty of complaints that are significant problems with the game; there are plenty of problems that do indicate this is just another rushed MMO with content and quality cut from the product to get it out the door in a pretty absurdly short amount of time (2 years).
Now, I'm not saying some people aren't going to like this game and support it no matter what. That sort of thing happens with all games it seems, no matter how awful the game is. While from a developer perspective it might not seem constructive to point out how this seems to be yet another rushed game, it is certainly constructive from a player perspective, as it informs the potential buyer to consider their decision carefully (and therefore ideally helps them spend their money more wisely).
Is the game rushed? Thats a tough one but I think I would say yes but only because of many videos of them talking about what was going to be in the game that they didn't have time fully implement before release. What they have in the game however, May not be rushed per say. Have they noticed bugs, issues? Sure they have and they have noted them. Is it because its rushed or is it because they are still implementing fixes? Is it rushed that they release with bugs still in the game? No, because frankly, I dont care who you are, your not going to have a bug free game. At least not at a 50 dollar price tag.
From all the reviews, every single one of them, have stated over and over, it feels like trek, it is fun. If thats not the two most important aspects to this game, then I don't know what is. Everything after that, can be fixed or added along the way.
Originally posted by DoomsDay01 You thought those ideas were interesting because they don't follow the forums? I would say anyone who is a trekkie or trekker has thought up many many things that they would want to play in their version of STO. Personally I didn't find anything they said to be anything out of the ordinary for a huge trek geek. But the thing is, STO wasn't made just for trek geeks. It was made to try and please a wide variety of people, non trekkies alike. That's the problem. That's the big mistake. That's why STO will have a huge drop off in subs when the next big MMO releases - because they have no loyalty to the IP.
Because of that exact reason, many of the things that ST geeks feel that should be in the game, wont be in there, at least at the start, simply because non trekkies are not going to understand those concepts.
Trek fans are more than plentiful enough to make a faithful MMORPG thrive. When you make concessions to non-fans, you drive fans away. Those are the players who would have stuck with the game for a long time, but it's clear from Cryptic's prior performance, that long-term is not part of the plan.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by DoomsDay01 From all the reviews, every single one of them, have stated over and over, it feels like trek, it is fun. If thats not the two most important aspects to this game, then I don't know what is. Everything after that, can be fixed or added along the way.
How many reviews have you read which were not written for websites/magazines which sell advertising space to the game companies which make MMOs?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't know if I'd be considered a trekkie or trekker as I've never been to a trek con (though i have been to a couple of other cons). I mean, I own the DS9 series, I watch ST no matter the series when I see it on the tube. I have a friend that owns every television series show episode and all the movies and I have played the ST table-top RPG and enjoyed it.
That said, I wouldn't want player crews personally if it's an all or nothing deal. If it's put in as an option and there are no benefits artifically programmed in for going either route then it would seem a fair deal.
Course, there are bigger fish this game needs to fry in my opinion, with Klingon PvE Episodic content being numero uno on that list.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Originally posted by DoomsDay01 You thought those ideas were interesting because they don't follow the forums? I would say anyone who is a trekkie or trekker has thought up many many things that they would want to play in their version of STO. Personally I didn't find anything they said to be anything out of the ordinary for a huge trek geek. But the thing is, STO wasn't made just for trek geeks. It was made to try and please a wide variety of people, non trekkies alike. That's the problem. That's the big mistake. That's why STO will have a huge drop off in subs when the next big MMO releases - because they have no loyalty to the IP.
Because of that exact reason, many of the things that ST geeks feel that should be in the game, wont be in there, at least at the start, simply because non trekkies are not going to understand those concepts.
Trek fans are more than plentiful enough to make a faithful MMORPG thrive. When you make concessions to non-fans, you drive fans away. Those are the players who would have stuck with the game for a long time, but it's clear from Cryptic's prior performance, that long-term is not part of the plan.
Hey, I am all for niche MMO's. I think that companies need to quit going after the WoW money and go after the loyal fan money instead. But that doesn't mean that cryptic is going to abandon the loyalty to the IP. They may have to make some concessions for the sake of overall fun and I don't see a problem with that. As for long-term plans, it sure sounds like they have plenty of that for STO. Cryptics prior performance in question appears to be 1 game. 1 possible failed game does not make the company untrustworthy. If Blizzard was to fail on their next mmo, the same reactions would apply even though they have the best MMO money maker ever.
Originally posted by DoomsDay01 From all the reviews, every single one of them, have stated over and over, it feels like trek, it is fun. If thats not the two most important aspects to this game, then I don't know what is. Everything after that, can be fixed or added along the way.
How many reviews have you read which were not written for websites/magazines which sell advertising space to the game companies which make MMOs?
A few actually. I am not going to get into conspiracy theory with you about reviews being biased because companies bought add space or not.
Hey, I am all for niche MMO's. I think that companies need to quit going after the WoW money and go after the loyal fan money instead. But that doesn't mean that cryptic is going to abandon the loyalty to the IP. Just from their own information about how the game will work - they have already done it.
They may have to make some concessions for the sake of overall fun and I don't see a problem with that. There it is. Right there. They don't have to make concessions. As for long-term plans, it sure sounds like they have plenty of that for STO.
Empty promises about future development. Standard procedure for MMO devs.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Hey, I am all for niche MMO's. I think that companies need to quit going after the WoW money and go after the loyal fan money instead. But that doesn't mean that cryptic is going to abandon the loyalty to the IP. Just from their own information about how the game will work - they have already done it.
Tell you what, go write your own MMO. Give yourself two years to do it. Tell everyone up front what your going to have in it, and dont skimp on the details. Then in two years, when you release this gem of a product, I want to see you say that you got everything in it that you originally said PLUS you are 100% bug free. if not, then you lied to us and you must be punished! We will all have to start a smear campaign about your game because you lied to us and didnt get something in that you said you were going to. See where this is going? You really need to stop now.
They may have to make some concessions for the sake of overall fun and I don't see a problem with that. There it is. Right there. They don't have to make concessions. Yes they do. Even in the tv shows they hint at space is boring. Thats one reason why you only get 1 episode a week. Why not make the show be on air 24/7 showing them flying to the next sector. Why do they say, we will be there in 16 hours and then a few minutes later, boom they are there. There are lots of things like this that does have to be changed to make the game fun.
As for long-term plans, it sure sounds like they have plenty of that for STO.
Empty promises about future development. Standard procedure for MMO devs.
Yet, the game isn't out yet. Are you from the future? Surely you have something more to go on besides your "opinion".
There are quite a few ideas that are not in STO that alot of people would like to see happen. Just because they are not in know does not mean they cannot be added in at a later date. Game expansions and updates will surely bring more content as time goes by. A few like: Klingons as a fully playable race they have already stated is something that can be changed at a later date. The way they are now is not set in stone.
Don't know about player crews tho....ever play SWG and try and get a crew manned for the POB ships for an extended amount of time? Not an easy feat to do. I know raids can last for hours on end and people do them in 5+ group sizes. Those a different type of games tho and trying to create consistent content for manned crews might be a little to difficult for any company to pull off. The thought is a great one....just might not be practical to implement.
Will try the game at launch and hope it is not plagued with too many problems.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about..anon
When ignorance gets started it knows no bounds..Will Rogers
Originally posted by DoomsDay01 A few actually. I am not going to get into conspiracy theory with you about reviews being biased because companies bought add space or not.
You have got a lot to learn about the real world.
Yep, I sure do. I really need to quit feeding the trolls but dangit, they are so cute and fluffy that I just cant seem to stop myself.
there are quite a number of star trek fans, and im fairly certain im not the only one thats a little disapointed with the information we've been given on the game so far. its just that the game so far is more star fleet battles and less star trek.. and even then.. only 2 sides ?? with all the wealth of races to choose from, why only pick the klingons ? not that that is my only issue with the game
Tell you what, go write your own MMO. Give yourself two years to do it. Absolutely not. I wouldn't EVER try to make an MMORPG in less than four years. Cryptic made that choice. It was a stupid decision, and the game will suffer for it. Tell everyone up front what your going to have in it, and dont skimp on the details. I wouldn't do that, either. Too many things can change in development.
What I would do is: have a list of goals/features with a progress report for each one. Everything would be labeled as: under consideration, planned, in progress, being tested, complete and in-game. Then in two years, when you release this gem of a product, No gem is made in two years. I want to see you say that you got everything in it that you originally said PLUS you are 100% bug free. I never EVER demanded that a game be 100% bug-free. I don't think anyone here ever has. if not, then you lied to us and you must be punished! We will all have to start a smear campaign about your game because you lied to us and didnt get something in that you said you were going to. See where this is going? You really need to stop now. I don't actually. <snip>
Yes they do. Even in the tv shows they hint at space is boring. Thats one reason why you only get 1 episode a week. LOL. Right. Production time and costs have nothing to do with that. That's just goofy. Why not make the show be on air 24/7 showing them flying to the next sector. Why do they say, we will be there in 16 hours and then a few minutes later, boom they are there. There are lots of things like this that does have to be changed to make the game fun. If you are copying the IP (not showing travel time) that's not a change.
<snip>
Yet, the game isn't out yet. Are you from the future? Surely you have something more to go on besides your "opinion".
Have you followed any other MMOs? Every one has promised things that have never been added.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by DoomsDay01 A few actually. I am not going to get into conspiracy theory with you about reviews being biased because companies bought add space or not.
You have got a lot to learn about the real world.
Yep, I sure do. I really need to quit feeding the trolls but dangit, they are so cute and fluffy that I just cant seem to stop myself.
there are quite a number of star trek fans, and im fairly certain im not the only one thats a little disapointed with the information we've been given on the game so far. its just that the game so far is more star fleet battles and less star trek.. and even then.. only 2 sides ?? with all the wealth of races to choose from, why only pick the klingons ? not that that is my only issue with the game
Of course someone is going to be disappointed. We all have our versions of how we want star trek to be. A single company could never ever make such a game. Not only does the company have to make concessions to make the game fun for people, but we as players have to make concessions to. The concessions for us is a lot simpler than the game companies though. We simply have to decide if the game will be fun enough for us, despite things not being in it that we want.
there are quite a number of star trek fans, and im fairly certain im not the only one thats a little disapointed with the information we've been given on the game so far. its just that the game so far is more star fleet battles and less star trek.. and even then.. only 2 sides ?? with all the wealth of races to choose from, why only pick the klingons ? not that that is my only issue with the game
Not only did they leave the Romulans out, but they rewrote the story to make the Klingons the enemy.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by DoomsDay01 A few actually. I am not going to get into conspiracy theory with you about reviews being biased because companies bought add space or not.
You have got a lot to learn about the real world.
Yep, I sure do. I really need to quit feeding the trolls but dangit, they are so cute and fluffy that I just cant seem to stop myself.
there are quite a number of star trek fans, and im fairly certain im not the only one thats a little disapointed with the information we've been given on the game so far. its just that the game so far is more star fleet battles and less star trek.. and even then.. only 2 sides ?? with all the wealth of races to choose from, why only pick the klingons ? not that that is my only issue with the game
Of course someone is going to be disappointed. We all have our versions of how we want star trek to be. A single company could never ever make such a game. Not only does the company have to make concessions to make the game fun for people, but we as players have to make concessions to. The concessions for us is a lot simpler than the game companies though. We simply have to decide if the game will be fun enough for us, despite things not being in it that we want.
even when the dissapointment with the game is because its not going to be like Star Trek
Originally posted by DoomsDay01<SNIP> Absolutely not. I wouldn't EVER try to make an MMORPG in less than four years. Cryptic made that choice. It was a stupid decision, and the game will suffer for it. 2 years, 4 years, they had a goal and they are going to achieve it. Maybe they didnt get in everything they wanted, but guess what, that happens with games that are 4 years or even 10 years in the making.
Tell everyone up front what your going to have in it, and dont skimp on the details. I wouldn't do that, either. Too many things can change in development.
What I would do is: have a list of goals/features with a progress report for each one. Everything would be labeled as: under consideration, planned, in progress, being tested, complete and in-game. Yet oddly enough, almost all game companies do do that and it comes back to bite them. Why? Because of US. The players demanding more information after more information after more information. YOU are just to blame as the company is.
Then in two years, when you release this gem of a product, No gem is made in two years. And totally crappy games have been produced after 10 years in the making. Your point?
I want to see you say that you got everything in it that you originally said PLUS you are 100% bug free. I never EVER demanded that a game be 100% bug-free. I don't think anyone here ever has. Not in this particular thread, but yes it has come up MANY times.
if not, then you lied to us and you must be punished! We will all have to start a smear campaign about your game because you lied to us and didnt get something in that you said you were going to. See where this is going? You really need to stop now. I don't actually. Yes, you really do.
<snip>
Yes they do. Even in the tv shows they hint at space is boring. Thats one reason why you only get 1 episode a week. LOL. Right. Production time and costs have nothing to do with that. That's just goofy. What? So production time and costs have nothing to do with MMO's? Your right, that IS goofy. Why not make the show be on air 24/7 showing them flying to the next sector. Why do they say, we will be there in 16 hours and then a few minutes later, boom they are there. There are lots of things like this that does have to be changed to make the game fun. If you are copying the IP (not showing travel time) that's not a change. Yet, not having something in the game that is in the IP is a change? Again, look at 40 years of star trek history. Considering that this company wasn't given 40 years to make it, I think we can cut them some slack.
<snip>
Yet, the game isn't out yet. Are you from the future? Surely you have something more to go on besides your "opinion".
Have you followed any other MMOs? Every one has promised things that have never been added.
Yep, happens all the time. But what you said was and I quote "Empty promises about future development. Standard procedure for MMO devs." I don't think a single mmo has ever made an empty promise about wanting to have something in their game. Just because they didn't get something in doesn't mean they didn't want to put it in.
Comments
because its easier to nitpick something than to be constructive
Action oriented I can handle. But not the dark military war style that they started going down. I even remember seeing a video of some of the writers or producers talking about it after the fact that they wanted to bring more darkness into the ST universe and I think that was one of the problems with the shows losing watchers, because it was not really star trek. It was more like star wars or Battlestar Galactica.
no real surprise that the guy who was the show runner for TNG,DS9 went on to be the creative force behind Battlestar Gallactica
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
I can do you one better. Im not going to sift through all the tons of information to find you a link that you can find yourself. However, I will suggest that you go back and watch some of the videos that have been put out there by cryptic, describing the game. heck, even go back and watch the big announcement of them having the ip. I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there.
" I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there."
Ok, so we both agree that you haven't a clue if anything like that was ever said and it's just your assumption. I'm glad we're both on the same page here.
The OP posted anecdotal evidence and stated clearly that it was anecdotal. The more you guys rally your pitchforks at him, the more obvious it is that it isn't that you think he's said anything incorrect but that he's said something you don't want to hear.
And you would be wrong. It has been said, but I can't remember which video it was in. Not assumption. You can look for it if you like, or not, I really don't care.
Wow.. I think.. I think he just won every forum ever.
I tip my hat to you sir.
roach5000 1, internet forums 0
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Wow.. I think.. I think he just won every forum ever.
I tip my hat to you sir.
roach5000 1, internet forums 0
what do I get?
but its the truth. Its way to easy to come in here day after day preaching doom and fail. A chance was given to write an article. Be constructive and tell us how you'd do it. I wish someone would offer me a chance to write an article
Wow.. I think.. I think he just won every forum ever.
I tip my hat to you sir.
roach5000 1, internet forums 0
what do I get?
but its the truth. Its way to easy to come in here day after day preaching doom and fail. A chance was given to write an article. Be constructive and tell us how you'd do it. I wish someone would offer me a chance to write an article
Plenty have done the later (myself included), but that's not really going to change STO, now is it? Frankly, a lot of us have seen plenty of rushed MMOs. War, Conan, Champions Online, etc. I think almost no MMO players want a game to get rushed out the door and go out incomplete. The fact that STO displays pretty much all the classic signs of a rushed game is quite notable. It isn't nitpicking to say the Klingons don't have any significant PvE content and are only half done (a Dev even said the only reason the Klingons didn't get the same treatment as the Federation is because of time). It isn't nitpicking to notice even people who have largely been supportive of the game seem to wonder how they can possibly polish and fix most of the problems in beta in the amount of time they have left (Dana in his first preview). It isn't nitpicking to notice that the non-combat content seems extremely weak, when it was a core of all of the shows, and that, from all we have seen and been told, the Feds just go around killing people left and right and that's not in-line with the IP -- and no, it isn't nitpicking to want a game that at least tries to capture some of the core elements of the show, such as trying for non-violent resolutions (and successful MMOs without combat can exist just fine, see A Tale in the Desert, though obviously a Star Trek game would have some combat in it). I can see how some of the complaints might be nitpicking...some of them probably are, but there are plenty of complaints that are significant problems with the game; there are plenty of problems that do indicate this is just another rushed MMO with content and quality cut from the product to get it out the door in a pretty absurdly short amount of time (2 years).
Now, I'm not saying some people aren't going to like this game and support it no matter what. That sort of thing happens with all games it seems, no matter how awful the game is. While from a developer perspective it might not seem constructive to point out how this seems to be yet another rushed game, it is certainly constructive from a player perspective, as it informs the potential buyer to consider their decision carefully (and therefore ideally helps them spend their money more wisely).
Source? Link? I would really like to see that one in print before believing it.
I can do you one better. Im not going to sift through all the tons of information to find you a link that you can find yourself. However, I will suggest that you go back and watch some of the videos that have been put out there by cryptic, describing the game. heck, even go back and watch the big announcement of them having the ip. I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there.
" I am almost willing to bet it was even said somewhere in there."
Ok, so we both agree that you haven't a clue if anything like that was ever said and it's just your assumption. I'm glad we're both on the same page here.
The OP posted anecdotal evidence and stated clearly that it was anecdotal. The more you guys rally your pitchforks at him, the more obvious it is that it isn't that you think he's said anything incorrect but that he's said something you don't want to hear.
The Devs have simultaneously tried to court Trekkies and non-Trekkies. So some of the time they talk about how the game is designed for a wider audience and hence ignores things Trekkies would want, and other times they talk about how the game should really appeal to Trekkies. Honestly it didn't sound like a design vision more than they really wanted all potential customers to stay interested in the product, though they did talk about it a bit with ranged healing when they said that having to be next to someone to heal them wasn't/wouldn't be fun.
It may not seem much roach, but if it helps any, I'll change my sig to quote you
As far as the MMOs with no combat being successful, most people haven't heard of ATITD, and it obviously cost far less to make than any STO game ever, but lets move on.
Regarding the development time, remember also that Cryptic already had an engine they just needed to plug in Star Trek content to. Where another company would have to spend 2 more years developing their own engine from the ground up (and even then they may not get it right), Cryptic can skip a large part of that time and move straight to putting things into the game. Whether you think the game is rushed even so, you still have to admit that this would signifigantly cut down the amount of time they would need to develop the game.
I think people really need to try the game before they give it feedback (whether good or bad).
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Except other Dev teams (such as Mythic, I believe) have said having an engine cuts out ONE YEAR of Dev time. And also Cryptic already tried this "rush it out the door in 2 years" approach with CO and that didn't work out too well. Yes, it has some rabid fans, but it is desperately trying to regain customers by offering free weekends left and right and it has generally been panned by players.
Frankly, acting like they had enough time to get things done is silly. They already admitted they had to cut all work on significant Klingon PvE content because they didn't have enough time and it is a pretty major cut when you are stripping down one of the two release factions.
Wow.. I think.. I think he just won every forum ever.
I tip my hat to you sir.
roach5000 1, internet forums 0
what do I get?
but its the truth. Its way to easy to come in here day after day preaching doom and fail. A chance was given to write an article. Be constructive and tell us how you'd do it. I wish someone would offer me a chance to write an article
Plenty have done the later (myself included), but that's not really going to change STO, now is it? Frankly, a lot of us have seen plenty of rushed MMOs. War, Conan, Champions Online, etc. I think almost no MMO players want a game to get rushed out the door and go out incomplete. The fact that STO displays pretty much all the classic signs of a rushed game is quite notable. It isn't nitpicking to say the Klingons don't have any significant PvE content and are only half done (a Dev even said the only reason the Klingons didn't get the same treatment as the Federation is because of time). It isn't nitpicking to notice even people who have largely been supportive of the game seem to wonder how they can possibly polish and fix most of the problems in beta in the amount of time they have left (Dana in his first preview). It isn't nitpicking to notice that the non-combat content seems extremely weak, when it was a core of all of the shows, and that, from all we have seen and been told, the Feds just go around killing people left and right and that's not in-line with the IP -- and no, it isn't nitpicking to want a game that at least tries to capture some of the core elements of the show, such as trying for non-violent resolutions (and successful MMOs without combat can exist just fine, see A Tale in the Desert, though obviously a Star Trek game would have some combat in it). I can see how some of the complaints might be nitpicking...some of them probably are, but there are plenty of complaints that are significant problems with the game; there are plenty of problems that do indicate this is just another rushed MMO with content and quality cut from the product to get it out the door in a pretty absurdly short amount of time (2 years).
Now, I'm not saying some people aren't going to like this game and support it no matter what. That sort of thing happens with all games it seems, no matter how awful the game is. While from a developer perspective it might not seem constructive to point out how this seems to be yet another rushed game, it is certainly constructive from a player perspective, as it informs the potential buyer to consider their decision carefully (and therefore ideally helps them spend their money more wisely).
Is the game rushed? Thats a tough one but I think I would say yes but only because of many videos of them talking about what was going to be in the game that they didn't have time fully implement before release. What they have in the game however, May not be rushed per say. Have they noticed bugs, issues? Sure they have and they have noted them. Is it because its rushed or is it because they are still implementing fixes? Is it rushed that they release with bugs still in the game? No, because frankly, I dont care who you are, your not going to have a bug free game. At least not at a 50 dollar price tag.
From all the reviews, every single one of them, have stated over and over, it feels like trek, it is fun. If thats not the two most important aspects to this game, then I don't know what is. Everything after that, can be fixed or added along the way.
I want a pony!
Trek fans are more than plentiful enough to make a faithful MMORPG thrive. When you make concessions to non-fans, you drive fans away. Those are the players who would have stuck with the game for a long time, but it's clear from Cryptic's prior performance, that long-term is not part of the plan.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
How many reviews have you read which were not written for websites/magazines which sell advertising space to the game companies which make MMOs?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No!
@ thread topic
I don't know if I'd be considered a trekkie or trekker as I've never been to a trek con (though i have been to a couple of other cons). I mean, I own the DS9 series, I watch ST no matter the series when I see it on the tube. I have a friend that owns every television series show episode and all the movies and I have played the ST table-top RPG and enjoyed it.
That said, I wouldn't want player crews personally if it's an all or nothing deal. If it's put in as an option and there are no benefits artifically programmed in for going either route then it would seem a fair deal.
Course, there are bigger fish this game needs to fry in my opinion, with Klingon PvE Episodic content being numero uno on that list.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Trek fans are more than plentiful enough to make a faithful MMORPG thrive. When you make concessions to non-fans, you drive fans away. Those are the players who would have stuck with the game for a long time, but it's clear from Cryptic's prior performance, that long-term is not part of the plan.
Hey, I am all for niche MMO's. I think that companies need to quit going after the WoW money and go after the loyal fan money instead. But that doesn't mean that cryptic is going to abandon the loyalty to the IP. They may have to make some concessions for the sake of overall fun and I don't see a problem with that. As for long-term plans, it sure sounds like they have plenty of that for STO. Cryptics prior performance in question appears to be 1 game. 1 possible failed game does not make the company untrustworthy. If Blizzard was to fail on their next mmo, the same reactions would apply even though they have the best MMO money maker ever.
How many reviews have you read which were not written for websites/magazines which sell advertising space to the game companies which make MMOs?
A few actually. I am not going to get into conspiracy theory with you about reviews being biased because companies bought add space or not.
Empty promises about future development. Standard procedure for MMO devs.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Empty promises about future development. Standard procedure for MMO devs.
Yet, the game isn't out yet. Are you from the future? Surely you have something more to go on besides your "opinion".
There are quite a few ideas that are not in STO that alot of people would like to see happen. Just because they are not in know does not mean they cannot be added in at a later date. Game expansions and updates will surely bring more content as time goes by. A few like: Klingons as a fully playable race they have already stated is something that can be changed at a later date. The way they are now is not set in stone.
Don't know about player crews tho....ever play SWG and try and get a crew manned for the POB ships for an extended amount of time? Not an easy feat to do. I know raids can last for hours on end and people do them in 5+ group sizes. Those a different type of games tho and trying to create consistent content for manned crews might be a little to difficult for any company to pull off. The thought is a great one....just might not be practical to implement.
Will try the game at launch and hope it is not plagued with too many problems.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about..anon
When ignorance gets started it knows no bounds..Will Rogers
You have got a lot to learn about the real world.
Yep, I sure do. I really need to quit feeding the trolls but dangit, they are so cute and fluffy that I just cant seem to stop myself.
there are quite a number of star trek fans, and im fairly certain im not the only one thats a little disapointed with the information we've been given on the game so far. its just that the game so far is more star fleet battles and less star trek.. and even then.. only 2 sides ?? with all the wealth of races to choose from, why only pick the klingons ? not that that is my only issue with the game
Yet, the game isn't out yet. Are you from the future? Surely you have something more to go on besides your "opinion".
Have you followed any other MMOs? Every one has promised things that have never been added.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You have got a lot to learn about the real world.
Yep, I sure do. I really need to quit feeding the trolls but dangit, they are so cute and fluffy that I just cant seem to stop myself.
there are quite a number of star trek fans, and im fairly certain im not the only one thats a little disapointed with the information we've been given on the game so far. its just that the game so far is more star fleet battles and less star trek.. and even then.. only 2 sides ?? with all the wealth of races to choose from, why only pick the klingons ? not that that is my only issue with the game
Of course someone is going to be disappointed. We all have our versions of how we want star trek to be. A single company could never ever make such a game. Not only does the company have to make concessions to make the game fun for people, but we as players have to make concessions to. The concessions for us is a lot simpler than the game companies though. We simply have to decide if the game will be fun enough for us, despite things not being in it that we want.
Not only did they leave the Romulans out, but they rewrote the story to make the Klingons the enemy.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You have got a lot to learn about the real world.
Yep, I sure do. I really need to quit feeding the trolls but dangit, they are so cute and fluffy that I just cant seem to stop myself.
there are quite a number of star trek fans, and im fairly certain im not the only one thats a little disapointed with the information we've been given on the game so far. its just that the game so far is more star fleet battles and less star trek.. and even then.. only 2 sides ?? with all the wealth of races to choose from, why only pick the klingons ? not that that is my only issue with the game
Of course someone is going to be disappointed. We all have our versions of how we want star trek to be. A single company could never ever make such a game. Not only does the company have to make concessions to make the game fun for people, but we as players have to make concessions to. The concessions for us is a lot simpler than the game companies though. We simply have to decide if the game will be fun enough for us, despite things not being in it that we want.
even when the dissapointment with the game is because its not going to be like Star Trek
Yet, the game isn't out yet. Are you from the future? Surely you have something more to go on besides your "opinion".
Have you followed any other MMOs? Every one has promised things that have never been added.
Yep, happens all the time. But what you said was and I quote "Empty promises about future development. Standard procedure for MMO devs." I don't think a single mmo has ever made an empty promise about wanting to have something in their game. Just because they didn't get something in doesn't mean they didn't want to put it in.