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How can I violate a NDA...
SomeOldBloke
Member UncommonPosts: 2,167
When I'm not in beta and have not signed a NDA? Apparently posting a link to somebody else's beta leak videos is violation.
Can somebody explain?
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That does seem a bit odd, because if you are not in beta, you didn't agree to the NDA terms and conditions.
Although, perhaps they are under the assumption that the link you provided, is infact your own video?
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Probably.
basicly the industry are all different!some have open beta close beta ,just beta .but on average ,beta means
FOR YOUR EYES ONLY .so any image you link that werent approved by game maker(since they could change tremendously)
is nda.also its missinformation for the poster since say blizzard beta test the movement of their character but not the graphic since they can test those inhouse
you release footage,but when people actually play the released version it look 100% better then what you betaed
so technicly they could sue you for false advertisement.that why most site tend to try to get official footage
nobody want to be sued over silly stuff.but as a small closet lawyer firm showed .suing is big business in usa
NDA stands for Non-Disclosure Agreement, it's a document indicating you cannot divulge information about their beta test. This can be anything included in the NDA like screenshots and videos. Some companies even ask you not to talk to anyone about the game, especially anyone from the media.
Consequently if you violate the agreement, they will (sometimes) ask the hosting company to remove the images or videos because of copyright infringement and/or agreement violation; then (most of the time), IP ban and (if they can) hardware ban as well as removal of you from beta testing.
You don't really have to worry about an NDA in a open beta, they usually release closed beta NDA's to make sure if it's not successful no one would really give flak about the game.
It's a really easy contract just to play upcoming games. If you're not the snitching type of person, then NDA's are pretty easy.
More information about NDA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
this site simply does not promote beta leaks no matter who or what the source is. If you're the messenger of the beta leak, and know that in fact you are leaking information under a non-disclosure, then you obviously are infringing on the games rights just as much as the person who posted the information
bottom line is, they have no way of knowing if your MMORPG.com account is linked to any closed beta accounts. Therefore, if you're linking leaked information on betas.. you'll be held accountable.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Hmm, I am inclined to concur with what every above has posted, however, I must challenge this NDA thing.
It stands for Non Disclosure Agreement, As we all know. The important part being agreement, Perhaps I am under the misconception that an agreement (or atleast in this case) has to be agreed too, like when invited to beta, you must agree not to display the game. But the guy didn't agree to anything, so surely he cannot break an agreement that he never agreed too o_O?
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Doesn't matter if the OP agreed to it or not. He's relaying a video from someone who DID break the NDA, which he agreed to, by leaking a beta video of a game... under NDA. Call it shooting the messenger, collateral damage, or whatever you want. Although the OP didn't agree to an NDA, he's promoting someone who did agree to it but still broke it. MMORPG.com doesn't like that, so they will punish the OP.
Edit: On second thought, yeah, it's more likely that MMORPG.com thought the beta videos were his. They have no way of knowing for sure.
Doesn't matter if the OP agreed to it or not. He's relaying a video from someone who DID break the NDA, which he agreed to, by leaking a beta video of a game... under NDA. Call it shooting the messenger, collateral damage, or whatever you want. Although the OP didn't agree to an NDA, he's promoting someone who did agree to it but still broke it. MMORPG.com doesn't like that, so they will punish the OP.
Hmm, I suppose.
What exactly is the punishment for breaking NDA? I would've thought they might just kick you from the beta, but hes not in beta so what exactly will happen : o?
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The NDA is there to protect crap MMOs.
The only MMO I'd ever preorder is one where the developers are open and honest.
Thing about NDA's is that they can come in any type of form. I take example from a few that I am now released to divulge. CrimeCraft gave me a large NDA document; including permission to release videos of my character and some stuff about collecting certain information during the test. As oppose to Face Of Mankind where it was on the forums (I think) when you're invited and the EULA somewhat included an NDA I think.
Some companies are really sneaky trying to get you to sign the NDA, but they need you to sign sometimes if they're either very secure about their project or very insecure.
Thing about NDA's is that they can come in any type of form. I take example from a few that I am now released to divulge. CrimeCraft gave me a large NDA document; including permission to release videos of my character and some stuff about collecting certain information during the test. As oppose to Face Of Mankind where it was on the forums (I think) when you're invited and the EULA somewhat included an NDA I think.
Some companies are really sneaky trying to get you to sign the NDA, but they need you to sign sometimes if they're either very secure about their project or very insecure.
Hmm, Valid point. They probably made a reference to the NDA in the terms and conditions of signing up to the forums and the OP must've chose not to read through them and just accept it regardless, much like myself :P
<div align='center'><a href='http://www.buddytv.com/closedquiz/closed-quiz.aspx?quiz=1000038'>Which Supernatural Character Are You?<br /><img>
Thing about NDA's is that they can come in any type of form. I take example from a few that I am now released to divulge. CrimeCraft gave me a large NDA document; including permission to release videos of my character and some stuff about collecting certain information during the test. As oppose to Face Of Mankind where it was on the forums (I think) when you're invited and the EULA somewhat included an NDA I think.
Some companies are really sneaky trying to get you to sign the NDA, but they need you to sign sometimes if they're either very secure about their project or very insecure.
Hmm, Valid point. They probably made a reference to the NDA in the terms and conditions of signing up to the forums and the OP must've chose not to read through them and just accept it regardless, much like myself :P
I think it depends on the company and their legal mentality to protect the game from outside influence.
In my honest opinion, I don't really mind considering it's a small favour from them and in return you can play the game until the end of closed beta when NDA's usually expire.
I have some friends (can't name them since they are in NDA still) are under NDA after open beta to help beta test new unreleased systems. They pretty much can only tell me, "testing new stuff" and I would answer "what kind of stuff?" and they would response "can't say" or "NDA, so I can't tell you".
Great about have people under NDA...you get the inside scoop on nothing.
Now I am not familiar with the post in question... but in general: If I myself have not seen or agreed to an NDA, how do I even know one exists, and thus how would I know that someone's video was breaking that NDA?
Not all videos are titled "NDA Break video"...
I guess the response will be that a poster has to take it upon himself to go research NDA status of games before linking videos, but that seems a bit burdensome and hard to determine with confidence. Often game sites and their forums have conflicting information about the timing of an NDA and even what is and is not allowed.
Administratively I suppose I understand the issue. You could just have people making fake accounts and linking to their own videos and claiming ignorance. It just seems that there has to be a way to accomplish that goal without a presumption of guilt.
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MMORPG.com's one rule about circumventing Non-Disclosure Agreements is quite clear and simple. Don't do it. If you don't know where the Rules of Conduct are you need to exercise some slight curiosity about this website and find them.
Heard of "Accessory to murder"?
In most countries aiding person who is committing an act of crime makes you just as guilty as the person who performed the act. You posting a link is is further enabling this breach of contract by exposing it to more people. NDA in the majority have wording that explicitly prohibit such distribution of information about the game.
So, the guy who posted the link committed the "crime" and you assisted him by further distributing the link.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Simply put, you can't. You never agreed to a Non Disclosure Agreement so you aren't bound by its terms. Your friend however would have had to of accepted the NDA to participate in the beta and by showing you he is breaking the NDA.
This isn't a murder conviction or assault where you can be an accessory. You have to actually agree to the NDA to break it.
Heard of "Accessory to murder"?
In most countries aiding person who is committing an act of crime makes you just as guilty as the person who performed the act. You posting a link is is further enabling this breach of contract by exposing it to more people. NDA in the majority have wording that explicitly prohibit such distribution of information about the game.
So, the guy who posted the link committed the "crime" and you assisted him by further distributing the link.
If he never signed into a contract, how can he be considered in breach of contract. There is no doubt his friend or whoever provided him with the beta information has broken the NDA but this guy never signed any agreement, he's simply passing on information provided to him.
If a person that finds a youtube gameplay video of beta and posts a link recommending viewing it to other people, does that person then find themselves in breach of contract?
Hehe.
I think the OP has disappeared XD
Looks like the problem is solved now
<div align='center'><a href='http://www.buddytv.com/closedquiz/closed-quiz.aspx?quiz=1000038'>Which Supernatural Character Are You?<br /><img>
Heard of "Accessory to murder"?
In most countries aiding person who is committing an act of crime makes you just as guilty as the person who performed the act. You posting a link is is further enabling this breach of contract by exposing it to more people. NDA in the majority have wording that explicitly prohibit such distribution of information about the game.
So, the guy who posted the link committed the "crime" and you assisted him by further distributing the link.
If he never signed into a contract, how can he be considered in breach of contract. There is no doubt his friend or whoever provided him with the beta information has broken the NDA but this guy never signed any agreement, he's simply passing on information provided to him.
If a person that finds a youtube gameplay video of beta and posts a link recommending viewing it to other people, does that person then find themselves in breach of contract?
Keep it simple. Doesn't matter who, if anyone broke an NDA agreement. On this site, they will not permit posting of information or links on games known to be under NDA and will remove any attempts to post it here. (and issue a warning)
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Heard of "Accessory to murder"?
In most countries aiding person who is committing an act of crime makes you just as guilty as the person who performed the act. You posting a link is is further enabling this breach of contract by exposing it to more people. NDA in the majority have wording that explicitly prohibit such distribution of information about the game.
So, the guy who posted the link committed the "crime" and you assisted him by further distributing the link.
If he never signed into a contract, how can he be considered in breach of contract. There is no doubt his friend or whoever provided him with the beta information has broken the NDA but this guy never signed any agreement, he's simply passing on information provided to him.
If a person that finds a youtube gameplay video of beta and posts a link recommending viewing it to other people, does that person then find themselves in breach of contract?
Keep it simple. Doesn't matter who, if anyone broke an NDA agreement. On this site, they will not permit posting of information or links on games known to be under NDA and will remove any attempts to post it here. (and issue a warning)
I missed the part where this was about MMORPGs policy and no longer about the OP's NDA question. I agree the site has the right to determine what they want about NDAs. I also agree that they should be strict about beta information being leaked on the site.
With MMORPGs policy out of the picture and simply regarding the OPs original question, I agree that he should not be considered breaking the NDA (assuming his friend story is accurate). Now adding MMORPG and looking at it from a business standpoint I would toss him into the NDA category just to make it easy and keep leaks off my site.
Heard of "Accessory to murder"?
In most countries aiding person who is committing an act of crime makes you just as guilty as the person who performed the act. You posting a link is is further enabling this breach of contract by exposing it to more people. NDA in the majority have wording that explicitly prohibit such distribution of information about the game.
So, the guy who posted the link committed the "crime" and you assisted him by further distributing the link.
If he never signed into a contract, how can he be considered in breach of contract. There is no doubt his friend or whoever provided him with the beta information has broken the NDA but this guy never signed any agreement, he's simply passing on information provided to him.
If a person that finds a youtube gameplay video of beta and posts a link recommending viewing it to other people, does that person then find themselves in breach of contract?
You need to stop focusing on what you highlighted and understand the basic concept of if someone does something deemed illegal and you participate in ANY way other than alerting the authorities you can most certainly be charged as well. If your friend robs a bank and then goes to your house and you let him in to hide from the police there, you will be charged for aiding in the crime.
I doubt the OP didn't know the game was in beta as the majority of folks who come to this site who follow games know whether a game is in beta and if not they go to the forum and ask the beta question. So, he knew it was in beta but just didn't understand the fundamental concept above. He thought since he didn't sign (as you keep pointing out) that he wasn't liable. Well, wrong.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Heard of "Accessory to murder"?
In most countries aiding person who is committing an act of crime makes you just as guilty as the person who performed the act. You posting a link is is further enabling this breach of contract by exposing it to more people. NDA in the majority have wording that explicitly prohibit such distribution of information about the game.
So, the guy who posted the link committed the "crime" and you assisted him by further distributing the link.
If he never signed into a contract, how can he be considered in breach of contract. There is no doubt his friend or whoever provided him with the beta information has broken the NDA but this guy never signed any agreement, he's simply passing on information provided to him.
If a person that finds a youtube gameplay video of beta and posts a link recommending viewing it to other people, does that person then find themselves in breach of contract?
You need to stop focusing on what you highlighted and understand the basic concept of if someone does something deemed illegal and you participate in ANY way other than alerting the authorities you can most certainly be charged as well. If your friend robs a bank and then goes to your house and you let him in to hide from the police there, you will be charged for aiding in the crime.
I doubt the OP didn't know the game was in beta as the majority of folks who come to this site who follow games know whether a game is in beta and if not they go to the forum and ask the beta question. So, he knew it was in beta but just didn't understand the fundamental concept above. He thought since he didn't sign (as you keep pointing out) that he wasn't liable. Well, wrong.
You are referring to contract law and doesn't operate like you are explaining here with your analogies. I'll toss one out for you. Lets say your friend or relative (not husband or wife
) doesn't pay their loan and defaults on the agreement. You knew prior to them stopping payment of their intentions, does that now make you just as responsible for braking the agreement as the person who stopped payment? No.
Try to find a case where a person was found as an accessory to breach of contract.
I'm gonna leave ya with that. I'm not big on the forum back and forth because I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. We both have our opinions and they are what they are. Take a look at my post history and you'll notice a trend. I don't do the forum drama people love to take part in so much.
Happy hunting
Firstly, my violation should not have been 'breaking NDA' but 'displaying video that breaks NDA'. Secondly, these videos where not given or linked to me by a friend, I found them on youtube by doing a search, as anyone could do.
I accept that I probably should not have linked the video but I was not aware at the time that it was against mmorpg.com policy.
I still haven't broken any NDA, or become an accessory to murder - as I was not present when the murder took place only found evidence of it after the fact on a publicly accessible database. I supposed I could be charged with with holding evidence...
Actually, firstly, you should not be posting threads discussing moderation actions against your account. That was your second mistake (the first was posting beta leaks). Second, I'd normally delete this thread but since people seem to be confused about our rules...
"NDAs
* MMORPG.com does not permit users to post information on games still under an NDA. For more information about your specific game's NDA, please visit their official website."
There isn't anything ambiguous about this rule. If you're interested in continuing to post at MMORPG.com you will not post material or details gleaned from information that is under an NDA. it does not matter if you are personally bound to such an agreement. We are a private forum and you agree to abide by our rules when you sign up, so please keep that in mind.
No gaming publication worth its salt allows its users to post NDA breaches, so this excuse is fairly tired. You should know better -- don't do it.
Locked.