I think most people misunderstand the eve community horribly. People say its a den full of cutthroats and murderers, thiefs and even politicans, and yes thats all true. But what those people miss, is that those people dont do what they do because they hate you, or like to cause pain(apart from the politicans i guess), they simply fill a role in the game that requires them to do it. If you want to be a pirate for example, sooner or later you need to start shooting other players, without them agreeing to it. You cant be a pirate that doesnt shoot other players. It doesnt mean you hate others or like to cause pain (though that helps), infact most pirates i know and talk to are pretty great guys. I mean they are trying to rob you blind sure, but after all its imaginary ships, paid with imaginary money from a never ceasing imaginary money fountain. Surely they wont go do hell for this? Yes, there is a mutual "agreement" that some understand and some don't. Those that do not understand this "agreement" is assumingly those that are offended by words like "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Or are offended by what you write below. You should never forget, that whatever happens to you in eve, its probably your own damn fault, and if you werent so busy shuffling the blame on other peoples playstyle you would realise that.
I dont know if this is sarcasm or not but this is clear sign that Eves community is crap. If someone ganks/griefs you it is YOUR (the "victims" fault). It was your fault that you went into lowsec and get podded. Nevermind that podding someone is complete unneccessary and only mostly to hurt the other guy.
But that is irrelevant, it is your fault that you got griefed. High sec ganking is the same, it is your fault for not paying enough attention when someone kamikazes your (defenceless) industrial to get your BPOs. Or that you had a corp thief that took everything you stored in corp hangars. That is your fault too. I mean, you should be telepathic and know who is a thief and who is not.
That is the sentiment most people have in this game. It is always the victims fault, never the aggressors. He is just enjoying the game (on your expense).
By that I dont mean Eve is a bad game, I wouldnt play it if it was, but the community is rotten. However that is not specific for Eve, all FFA full loot PvP games, are usually like that. Probably the nature of internet which brings out the worst of people. The flipside to this is that with all the maggots in the game, being good is noticeable and actually means something. Because there is some truth to the old saying that without Evil, Good would not exist. However Evil can still exist without Good, and Eve is a perfect example of that.
I mean, how many anti-griefing corps (people that hunt griefers) are there out there? A handful? Compared to the houndreds of griefing corps?
The first time I got killed was by someone flipping my cans when I was just a new player.
It made me curious how long some long term player would camp a newbie in a starter ship and it seems the answer was at least close to 2 hours. After getting flipped a few times, switching ships to something that could hold my ore and prevent more flipping, I figured the knowledge was worth more than the actual ore I lost was going to lose, so I prepared as best I could and opened a can knowing what was going to happen. Even though I could not see my aggressor anywhere I was pretty sure I would die as that is how a decent trap is set.
When I died 30 seconds later, I started a conversation with my attacker to talk about what happened and it was a rather nice conversation. I learned a lot about the game in the next half hour. I learned about cloaked covert operation ships, drones, security ranks, etc.
Personally I think camping newbies is griefing and not something I would ever do, but eve isn't a game about chivalry or some fairness code of conduct. That is how the game works for a reason. Most griefers in other games wouldn't take time to educate a newbie they just slaughtered.
I'm not sure if it is the best community, but there are a number of positive things in the game. The rookie channel with volunteer helpers answering questions, eve-university that accepts newbies with the sole intention of teaching the game, etc. All very positive aspects about the games community.
I think most people misunderstand the eve community horribly. People say its a den full of cutthroats and murderers, thiefs and even politicans, and yes thats all true. But what those people miss, is that those people dont do what they do because they hate you, or like to cause pain(apart from the politicans i guess), they simply fill a role in the game that requires them to do it. If you want to be a pirate for example, sooner or later you need to start shooting other players, without them agreeing to it. You cant be a pirate that doesnt shoot other players. It doesnt mean you hate others or like to cause pain (though that helps), infact most pirates i know and talk to are pretty great guys. I mean they are trying to rob you blind sure, but after all its imaginary ships, paid with imaginary money from a never ceasing imaginary money fountain. Surely they wont go do hell for this? Yes, there is a mutual "agreement" that some understand and some don't. Those that do not understand this "agreement" is assumingly those that are offended by words like "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Or are offended by what you write below. You should never forget, that whatever happens to you in eve, its probably your own damn fault, and if you werent so busy shuffling the blame on other peoples playstyle you would realise that.
I dont know if this is sarcasm or not but this is clear sign that Eves community is crap. If someone ganks/griefs you it is YOUR (the "victims" fault).
It was your fault that you went into lowsec and get podded.
Well yeah? It's a game it's not like someone runs across the street and get killed, and someone says "blame yourself"... Again refer to my green text above.
You chosed to do that... oh I didn't know I could get podded, what is lowsec?
One should not really feel that butthurt about it.
Nevermind that podding someone is complete unneccessary and only mostly to hurt the other guy.
That offends you? When you get podded? (I only see it as I (may) lost some stuff.)
But that is irrelevant, it is your fault that you got griefed. High sec ganking is the same, it is your fault for not paying enough attention when someone kamikazes your (defenceless) industrial to get your BPOs.
Could it be avoided by paying attention or by just doing "the right thing" or could it not have been? If so, even here teh biggest reason for that to not exist in other games is solely due to those options being nonexistant.
Or that you had a corp thief that took everything you stored in corp hangars. That is your fault too. I mean, you should be telepathic and know who is a thief and who is not.
It's a game with alot of possibilies, and things to do,. This don't occur in other games? People running off with the raidvault, a guildleader scamming a former guild. I trust in that you are not that naive.
Yeah, in eve this add a layer to the gameplay... And oddly the community can themself punish this character.
That is the sentiment most people have in this game. It is always the victims fault, never the aggressors. He is just enjoying the game (on your expense).
You know there is alot of aggressors that have lost aswell, it's their fault aswell, for losing their ship that is.
People are telling all the time, don't use what you can't afford to lose, that is not being rude that is an honest tip. Yet that guy goes out and get's killed, whines about he can't afford to lose it. They say, don't do that you will lose your ship. Yet the guy goes out does just that and lose the ship.
IMO I can blame the guy, this is a game and pixels are cheap.
I think most people misunderstand the eve community horribly. People say its a den full of cutthroats and murderers, thiefs and even politicans, and yes thats all true. But what those people miss, is that those people dont do what they do because they hate you, or like to cause pain(apart from the politicans i guess), they simply fill a role in the game that requires them to do it. If you want to be a pirate for example, sooner or later you need to start shooting other players, without them agreeing to it. You cant be a pirate that doesnt shoot other players. It doesnt mean you hate others or like to cause pain (though that helps), infact most pirates i know and talk to are pretty great guys. I mean they are trying to rob you blind sure, but after all its imaginary ships, paid with imaginary money from a never ceasing imaginary money fountain. Surely they wont go do hell for this? Yes, there is a mutual "agreement" that some understand and some don't. Those that do not understand this "agreement" is assumingly those that are offended by words like "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Or are offended by what you write below. You should never forget, that whatever happens to you in eve, its probably your own damn fault, and if you werent so busy shuffling the blame on other peoples playstyle you would realise that.
I dont know if this is sarcasm or not but this is clear sign that Eves community is crap. (Now, now, one person's glib reply isn't a sign of anything, other than a response to what he probably feels is QQing.) If someone ganks/griefs you it is YOUR (the "victims" fault). (It almost always is though) It was your fault that you went into lowsec and get podded. (No one made you go into low sec right, you knew the risks before you ever went there, game even pops up a reminder before you do) Nevermind that podding someone is complete unneccessary and only mostly to hurt the other guy. (While I agree that podding is a bush league tactic and I don't try to do it, the game permits and encourages it so there's no point to raging against the darkness, there are techniques you can employ to make podding almost impossible)
But that is irrelevant, it is your fault that you got griefed. (Yes, again, it is) High sec ganking is the same, it is your fault for not paying enough attention when someone kamikazes your (defenceless) industrial to get your BPOs. (Seriously, don't move BPO's in an industrial, I move all my valuable stuff in heavily resistantance tanked Battlecruisers that can withstand huge alpha strikes. Most poeple don't even bother to scan them. And never travel via autopilot, always stay at the helm and warp to 0) Or that you had a corp thief that took everything you stored in corp hangars. That is your fault too. I mean, you should be telepathic and know who is a thief and who is not. (While I don't agree with the mechanics of this either, it is part of the game, and the defense to it is to never store all your eggs in one basket. This really has nothing to do with the overall community of the game though)
That is the sentiment most people have in this game. It is always the victims fault, never the aggressors. He is just enjoying the game (on your expense). And they are quite correct. Almost all losses are avoidable on your part if the proper precautions are taken. I generally don't lose, as I'm careful with what I fly, where I fly it, and what I put on or in it. And I never lose what I can't afford to.
By that I dont mean Eve is a bad game, I wouldnt play it if it was, but the community is rotten. (None of your points so far really deal with the overall community, just your unhappiness on how the play style of some players negatively impacts you, but they are playing the role that CCP intended them to.) However that is not specific for Eve, all FFA full loot PvP games, are usually like that. Probably the nature of internet which brings out the worst of people. (No, in EVE, killing other playes, griefing other players, making other players cry is strongly encouraged by the game mechanics. It also teaches a person how to fly smart and safe, something I've been doing for over 2.5 years now) The flipside to this is that with all the maggots in the game, being good is noticeable and actually means something. (What you need to understand is those "maggots" you hate are just gamers, not bad people, and in fact, it is rarely personal, they are just playing the game as it was intended) Because there is some truth to the old saying that without Evil, Good would not exist. However Evil can still exist without Good, and Eve is a perfect example of that. (EVE is a perfect example of the many shades of gray. One person's good guy is another porson's greatest demon. I'm basically a benign player who does not go out of his way to kill people, however I've killed my share of lone miners and salvagers, and while I felt bad about it, I still killed them. There is no real good and evil in a game like EVE, since the consequences are virutal, and not part of real life.
I mean, how many anti-griefing corps (people that hunt griefers) are there out there? A handful? Compared to the houndreds of griefing corps? Well, there's an entire alliance (CVA) that works hard to prevent the griefing of those in its borders, and every alliance protects its members from those who would attack it.
As for corporations to hunt griefers, there's been many, but its largely unprofitable, and in EVE, profit is the number one driving force of almost all activites. (as it should be)
You play EVE, but you really don't understand EVE. You wan't the game to be something its not, you want the players to behave themselves, and get angry when they don't conform to your standards of morality and fair play.
Me, I take the high ground as much as I can, despise ganking pirates as much as you do, but the difference is, I don't expect them to be anything other than what they are, and I adjust my play style accordingly to stay out of their way.
When I do screw up and lose a ship, I always respond with "good fight" even if I was killed 25-1. Never hurts to go out with a little class.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is another big misunderstanding here i think, its about the "Its your own fault" that gets thrown around alot concerning eve. People take that as a offense and read "You shouldnt go into lowsec/nullsec/jita if not looking for pvp" into it, and indeed that is the short version that gets used because there are a myriad reasons for your problems with pirates, griefers etc that could be avoided by not being in the place when it hits the fan.
But really, thats not what it means. When i say "Its your own (damn) fault" i mean that literally. Like when someone crosses a street without looking left and right for cars and then getting hit by a car. Sure i feel bad for him, but if he starts screaming how its the drivers/street/government fault, i start loosing sympathy and might say something glib like well "dont cross streets then if you cant handle it".
The key part of my long post was not that its your, the players fault, if you get ganked/scammed/suicided by some madman. The key part was that it basicly never happens to me, arguably a experienced player, in many years just because im more knowledgeable in gamemechanics and take basic precautions. In other words i do look if there is a car coming before i cross a street.
There are many many tools and behaviors available to you to ensure your safety, but you need to piece them together, to form a picture that makes sense. This is not the thread to discuss these measures as it would be offtopic, i just wanted to point out that the eve community is maybe not half as harsh as you may think, we are just very tired of explaining basic safety measures(many of which are rather obvious) again and again, and just saying "stay out of lowsec if you cant handle loosing ships" is so much easier. And you will loose ships, but you will loose them because you do something wrong, or have very bad luck, not because of the evil pirates.
The reason why so many people think , that EvE is horrible and the community doesn't deserve this reward is, that people don't understand EvE.
EvE is a FFA PvP game. The developers of EvE say it themselves over and over again: "EvE was not designed to look like a cold harsh universe, it was designed to be a cold harsh universe."
So if you jump into the game, without preparing yourself to enter a cold harsh universe, then you'll hit a brick-wall and absolutely dislike the game and it's community.
Those people who make EvE the best MMO of the last years are those, who fill the cold harsh universe with life and death, not love.
the reason i think EVE has won this award is because the community extends beyond just a chat channel and forum. You have the magazine, radio stations, the machima, blogs, eve files, eve central, scrapheap, kugutsumen etc etc etc... the list goes on and on.
The players thrive off the meta game and this builds the community even more.
the reason i think EVE has won this award is because the community extends beyond just a chat channel and forum. You have the magazine, radio stations, the machima, blogs, eve files, eve central, scrapheap, kugutsumen etc etc etc... the list goes on and on. The players thrive off the meta game and this builds the community even more.
It's nice to get community recognition but the way they choose to portray it... poorly done.
Read through this thread of replies -- both the angry ones as well as the justification posts.
*IF* <condition one> *IF* <condition two> then it's good.
As in: *IF* you are this type of player.... *IF* you can handle the harsh raw nature of play... *THEN* the community is good.
Read the article for why they chose EVE instead of applying unstated justifications. If they chose the aspects you outlined, then it would be a top contender but the criteria they used... It reads like "Welcome to Hello Kitty!" more than the EVE community.
To put it another way -- we sure as hell don't need the types of folks this article will attract coming in the game. This game is not for those looking for a warm, friendly community full of sunshine and well wishes to all... As such it is misleading to those who look to community reviews for deciding upon online games.
If you want nice and sweet play time; try a different game; *NOT* EVE.
You play EVE, but you really don't understand EVE. You wan't the game to be something its not, you want the players to behave themselves, and get angry when they don't conform to your standards of morality and fair play.
Me, I take the high ground as much as I can, despise ganking pirates as much as you do, but the difference is, I don't expect them to be anything other than what they are, and I adjust my play style accordingly to stay out of their way.
When I do screw up and lose a ship, I always respond with "good fight" even if I was killed 25-1. Never hurts to go out with a little class.
Uhm what? My post is not about what is wrong in Eve, it is what it is, but to say that it has the best community despite all the people that would go to great lenghts to grief you, is for me ridicilous.
Want people to behave themselves? Where did I say that? People can behave as they wish (and as the devs allow them to) but if they behave like asses I dont see that being a reason for winning best community award.
People say that Eves community is mature but age does not automatically imply maturity. I dont feel it is mature for people to have sick and offensive bios like: I creampied your mother (real example).
I dont think it is sign of a good community to have 100 variations of Satans Desciples as corp name.
Or to pod people just for the heck of it.
Or to have corps that scam people of their money (Eve Intergalactic Bank)
Do I think it needs to be changed? I dont know, that is not the point, but the best community it is not. Not by my definition anyway.
The reason why so many people think , that EvE is horrible and the community doesn't deserve this reward is, that people don't understand EvE. EvE is a FFA PvP game. The developers of EvE say it themselves over and over again: "EvE was not designed to look like a cold harsh universe, it was designed to be a cold harsh universe." So if you jump into the game, without preparing yourself to enter a cold harsh universe, then you'll hit a brick-wall and absolutely dislike the game and it's community. Those people who make EvE the best MMO of the last years are those, who fill the cold harsh universe with life and death, not love.
Yeah sure, I agree. But what makes it the best community? I mean if the community is full of scammers, griefers and people who smacktalk then how is that best community?
Best for scammers, griefers and smacktalkers maybe.
I mean, does anyone here deny that Eve has alot of those kind of people? If you do then I can see how you think the community is good, if you dont then I cant.
I play Eve because it is a "free" universe and it is interesting to see what kind of people will prosper in such an anarchistic type of game and I like the adrenaline rush when doing bussiness in lowsec because I know there are alot of bad people that wants to kill me "just because". But the sideeffect of playing in an anarchistic virtual society is that there are alot of bad people there and that cant possibly make the community good.
Eve is an interesting experiment in human nature and what would happen if most or all laws and rules would break down and the result is that chaos, selfishness and arrogance dominates and those elements are not what I would want in a good community.
Take a game like WAR as another example. On the PvP servers there one could go to the other side and grief people yet that happened very rarely since there was little reward for it and your victim lost very little when you do gank him. So that resulted in a rather friendly atmosphere where people fought each other but did not go to great lengths to grief others and that is because the game mechanics did not reward such behaviour (but it was possible).
Eve rewards such behaviour, both by giving you loot/salvage and by the possibility to inflict alot of damage on your victims. So in a sense the game mechanics support that behaviour and that, imo, leads to a bad community full of griefers.
There is another big misunderstanding here i think, its about the "Its your own fault" that gets thrown around alot concerning eve. People take that as a offense and read "You shouldnt go into lowsec/nullsec/jita if not looking for pvp" into it, and indeed that is the short version that gets used because there are a myriad reasons for your problems with pirates, griefers etc that could be avoided by not being in the place when it hits the fan.
But really, thats not what it means. When i say "Its your own (damn) fault" i mean that literally. Like when someone crosses a street without looking left and right for cars and then getting hit by a car. Sure i feel bad for him, but if he starts screaming how its the drivers/street/government fault, i start loosing sympathy and might say something glib like well "dont cross streets then if you cant handle it".
The key part of my long post was not that its your, the players fault, if you get ganked/scammed/suicided by some madman. The key part was that it basicly never happens to me, arguably a experienced player, in many years just because im more knowledgeable in gamemechanics and take basic precautions. In other words i do look if there is a car coming before i cross a street.
There are many many tools and behaviors available to you to ensure your safety, but you need to piece them together, to form a picture that makes sense. This is not the thread to discuss these measures as it would be offtopic, i just wanted to point out that the eve community is maybe not half as harsh as you may think, we are just very tired of explaining basic safety measures(many of which are rather obvious) again and again, and just saying "stay out of lowsec if you cant handle loosing ships" is so much easier. And you will loose ships, but you will loose them because you do something wrong, or have very bad luck, not because of the evil pirates.
I understand what you say but dont agree with it. And your example was flawed because those cars do not have the intent to run you over, pirates do. Another better RL example would be if you go to a bad neighborhood and you get mugged/raped/killed. Is it the person who commited these acts that is at fault or you who went into a bad neighborhood.
With your reasoning it would be your fault, but society would punish the violator so by societies laws and my opinion it is never the victims fault. The victim maybe be irresponsible but ultimately if you commit the crime you cannot blame the victim.
In Eve those crimes carry little consequence. Having low security status means little since you can have alts that does your bussiness in high sec and you can have stations in 0.0 space and the bounty system is flawed since game mechanics does not make it easy to find and hunt down low sec people, nor do NPCs care about those people in lowsec space.
So your RL comparison is flawed. Eve is more like an anarchistic society with little consequence for bad behaviour.
Again not saying that Eve should be this or that but rather that the game mechanics in Eve fosters bad behaviour, by rewarding it, and having little consequences for it and that, imo, leads to a bad community. Full of people looking to gank, cheat and scam people.
Could you avoid those people? Yeah sure, but none the less they are part of the community.
You make a big mistake: good community != friendly community
That's where you fail, and that's why you don't understand, that the community is absolutely great in that.
Actually, the community of EvE Online is way more friendly then that of all other MMOs I've played or tried: Neocron, DAoC, WAR, AoC, Fallen Earth and even WoW.
I'm a PvP-player and I don't expect players in a PvP-centric MMO to be friendly for most of the time while shooting at each other, but the community of EvE is very friendly actually outside the game itself when it's not about politics.
And a person is not unfriendly at all, just because they kill you in the game. That would be like saying: All FPS-players are unfriendly.
That's why I said there before, that the community of EvE is actually a perfect match for the game, as the game is designed to be a harsh and cold universe.
I understand what you say but dont agree with it. And your example was flawed because those cars do not have the intent to run you over, pirates do. Another better RL example would be if you go to a bad neighborhood and you get mugged/raped/killed. Is it the person who commited these acts that is at fault or you who went into a bad neighborhood. Thats not really fair. Name me any game where there are not people getting a kick out of ruining another persons gameplay, thats not something thats inherent in eve, thats something inherent in the internet. You will find trolls on every forum, on every service in the internet, anonymity simply brings out the worst in some. And your example is also wrong, because mugging people is against the law in RL, while in eve being a pirate is a fully intended feature of the game. Pirates and indeed PVPers are needed in eve just like carnivores are needed in nature, the games economy would literally crumble within days without them. With your reasoning it would be your fault, but society would punish the violator so by societies laws and my opinion it is never the victims fault. The victim maybe be irresponsible but ultimately if you commit the crime you cannot blame the victim. And this is the difference, piracy is a crime not by OOG context, but only by IG context and even then only with certain npc entities. I agree a car accident may not be the best real life comparsion, but you must understand that pirates have a right to exist in this game. They have just the same right to exist as miners, agent runners or manufacturers. You dont complain if your undercut by a competitor(or even driven out of buisness), so why do you complain if you are ambushed by a pirate? The rules concerning pvp here are not that different from alot of other games PVP servers, infact they are less harsh. Only the death penalty is higher. In Eve those crimes carry little consequence. Having low security status means little since you can have alts that does your bussiness in high sec and you can have stations in 0.0 space and the bounty system is flawed since game mechanics does not make it easy to find and hunt down low sec people, nor do NPCs care about those people in lowsec space. I disagree, it makes every difference. Simply by being a pirate you become a distrusted outcast, and most non pirate corps wont even consider letting you join them. If you have been in a pirate corp for any length of time, it will take many months in a known non-pirate corp before people will stop eyeing you with suspicion, and even then there will always be the stigma. Trust me, it is a high price to pay considering how small a part of the game piracy is in the bigger picture. So your RL comparison is flawed. Eve is more like an anarchistic society with little consequence for bad behaviour. The consequences of your behavior get decided by your fellow pod pilots, not by the gamedesigners. A charming pirate who is selective of his targets might very well be more liked in his area than a ruthless industrial who plays the market and in the end ruins alot more peoples income but has a +10 security standing. No gameengine is able to recognize such a distinction, and its one of the reasons many eve players are ok with the current mechanics. Again not saying that Eve should be this or that but rather that the game mechanics in Eve fosters bad behaviour, by rewarding it, and having little consequences for it and that, imo, leads to a bad community. Full of people looking to gank, cheat and scam people. Could you avoid those people? Yeah sure, but none the less they are part of the community. Eve does not foster bad behavior anymore than other online games, be aware though that pirating isnt considered bad behavior in the sense item duping or ninja looting is considered bad behavior in other games. Its a intended and valid part of gameplay. Many people are drawn to the image of being a pirate, and even if i repeat myself, you cant be a pirate that doesnt shoot at people from time to time. And yes, you are even entitled to enjoy the shooting part. I know its not fun being blown out of the sky by a pirate, but its not fun being pounded into the ground by a (Class x) in WoW either. But i dont diss their community for that(i diss them for other things). What people in realitly have issues with is not the unconsentual pvp(which you get on pretty much every games pvp servers) but the death penalty, and thats not something that anyone can help you with(apart from yourself, by being more careful). Scamming on the other hand for example has been made harder and harder by ccp. Contracts have the value you bid on now not only written in numbers, but also in words. Blueprints are clearly marked as copys and if you direct trade a ship there comes a popup clearly stating that the ship might not contain the mods/rigs the seller advertised and you shouldnt do it this way. And lastly, things like abusive language etc are clearly against CCPs terms of service, and WILL result in consequences i have seen it too often to doubt that. You just have to realize things like human error do happen, and your cant manually check the bios of well over half a million chars. If you petition it, and if need be escalate it, you WILL see the bio removed. Just be aware that GMs are sometimes overworked especially after patches etc so it might take a bit. P.S.: Its a myth that eves community is a bunch of ruthless people, they come from every part of society just like in other games. Its the same stereotype applied to people playing FPS in the media, just this time it comes from computer literate people who should know it better imho. Once you realize that that eveil pirate who killed you is in reality a very nice guy just having a jolly time it takes alot of sting out of your loss, and maybe you even realize that your are playing a game, and that while nobody enjoys loosing games, you cant win all the time either or it wouldnt be any fun.
I am really trying to convince myself to give EvE a go, I had a dabble about 1-2 years ago but RL meant I had to stop. The community of a game is really important to me, I am not going to play this game if my time will be spent flying around space on my own with only utter anti-social jerks in the chat channels to talk to. I have read pretty much every post on this topic and it just sounds like a big mix of harsh and cruel gameplay and friendly enjoyable gameplay.
If the above is correct, is it easy to get into the friendly and enjoyable part? I have played other games with big risk and while I will do my best to avoid it, I can certainly handle it.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
I am really trying to convince myself to give EvE a go, I had a dabble about 1-2 years ago but RL meant I had to stop. The community of a game is really important to me, I am not going to play this game if my time will be spent flying around space on my own with only utter anti-social jerks in the chat channels to talk to. I have read pretty much every post on this topic and it just sounds like a big mix of harsh and cruel gameplay and friendly enjoyable gameplay. If the above is correct, is it easy to get into the friendly and enjoyable part? I have played other games with big risk and while I will do my best to avoid it, I can certainly handle it.
Personally i find it really easy. I changed corps maybe 5 times in as many years, and i have never been put off by the members. Most people that have issues with this are simply lazy, they stay in the npc corps where everyone from iskspammer to farmbot starts out and then complain about the corpchat. Or they decide they want to try out a playercorp, and 5 min laters they took the first recruitment offer they saw in local and are appalled to find out its a bunch of jerks. Its really easy steps to find a good corp:
1. Decide what you want to do, or sometimes more important, what you dont want to do.
2. Join the ingame recruitment channel, thats how i found my corp, its a good place to start looking.
3. Visit the recruitment subforum on the official forums, just take a look at what is going on, what kind of corps are out there. Rule of thumb, if a prospective corp cant even be bothered to have a forum thread you shouldnt be bothered to go to the trouble checking them out some other ways.
4. Most corps looking for new members have a public channel, i typically hang out in such a place anywhere between a couple days or weeks(dont rush things, get to know the guys first).
5. Talk with the recruitment guys/girls, not just about joining the corp, but the game in general, are they a friendly bunch?
6. Ask specific questions. Is profanity tolerated in corpchat, how is the maturity of the members, is the CEO trying to boss people around or is he a laidback fellow, are there mandatory corp ops/activities, if so why?
Rinse and repeat, the most important thing is really just talking to the guys. Start with some corpdescribtion that rings a bell for you, for me it was a remark in a recruitmentpost that the corp is compromised of mostly older gamers with families and jobs that dont put pressure on members and recognize RL comes first.
So yeah imho finding a good corp with nice people is easy, there are plenty out there. Just dont expect it to come to you without a bit of effort or looking around on your part.
P.S.: Try to aim for a corp with less than 50 members and between 5-10 active at a time. Thats a sweetspot where you always have someone to talk too, yet not so many that you hardly recognize some faces.
Uhm what? My post is not about what is wrong in Eve, it is what it is, but to say that it has the best community despite all the people that would go to great lenghts to grief you, is for me ridicilous.
Want people to behave themselves? Where did I say that? People can behave as they wish (and as the devs allow them to) but if they behave like asses I dont see that being a reason for winning best community award.
People say that Eves community is mature but age does not automatically imply maturity. I dont feel it is mature for people to have sick and offensive bios like: I creampied your mother (real example).
I dont think it is sign of a good community to have 100 variations of Satans Desciples as corp name.
Or to pod people just for the heck of it.
Or to have corps that scam people of their money (Eve Intergalactic Bank)
Do I think it needs to be changed? I dont know, that is not the point, but the best community it is not. Not by my definition anyway.
OK, let's examine your post.
You dislike offensive bio's. So do I, along with craptastic names, (corp or character) so follow my lead, don't read their bio's and block their names when they offend you. I've never spent a minute talking with people like you describe, fortunately there's usually 25K other people to converse with you. That said, the few people that do this do not make for a bad community. (most BIO's are pretty interesting, and some are downright helpful).
Podding people is no big deal, cost you very little unless of course, you are wearing expensive implants that you can't afford to lose. I don't go out of my way to pod others, but if the target presents itself, I'll take the shot.
As for the EVE Banking scam, that was again the actions of a a few, and just like in real life, there are bad apples. Doesn't mean the majority of the players are decent.
You seem to focus so much on the bad people do, and never on the good they have in them. I've been helped by far more people in EVE than been annoyed by, more so than any other game I've played..
It appears you feel a good community constitutes a bunch of alterusitc do-gooders and that most certainly doesn't describe EVE.
However, learrn how to manueveur (and even maniupulate) the community and you'll have a terrfiic time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am really trying to convince myself to give EvE a go, I had a dabble about 1-2 years ago but RL meant I had to stop. The community of a game is really important to me, I am not going to play this game if my time will be spent flying around space on my own with only utter anti-social jerks in the chat channels to talk to. I have read pretty much every post on this topic and it just sounds like a big mix of harsh and cruel gameplay and friendly enjoyable gameplay. If the above is correct, is it easy to get into the friendly and enjoyable part? I have played other games with big risk and while I will do my best to avoid it, I can certainly handle it.
Personally i find it really easy. I changed corps maybe 5 times in as many years, and i have never been put off by the members. Most people that have issues with this are simply lazy, they stay in the npc corps where everyone from iskspammer to farmbot starts out and then complain about the corpchat. Or they decide they want to try out a playercorp, and 5 min laters they took the first recruitment offer they saw in local and are appalled to find out its a bunch of jerks. Its really easy steps to find a good corp:
1. Decide what you want to do, or sometimes more important, what you dont want to do.
2. Join the ingame recruitment channel, thats how i found my corp, its a good place to start looking.
3. Visit the recruitment subforum on the official forums, just take a look at what is going on, what kind of corps are out there. Rule of thumb, if a prospective corp cant even be bothered to have a forum thread you shouldnt be bothered to go to the trouble checking them out some other ways.
4. Most corps looking for new members have a public channel, i typically hang out in such a place anywhere between a couple days or weeks(dont rush things, get to know the guys first).
5. Talk with the recruitment guys/girls, not just about joining the corp, but the game in general, are they a friendly bunch?
6. Ask specific questions. Is profanity tolerated in corpchat, how is the maturity of the members, is the CEO trying to boss people around or is he a laidback fellow, are there mandatory corp ops/activities, if so why?
Rinse and repeat, the most important thing is really just talking to the guys. Start with some corpdescribtion that rings a bell for you, for me it was a remark in a recruitmentpost that the corp is compromised of mostly older gamers with families and jobs that dont put pressure on members and recognize RL comes first.
So yeah imho finding a good corp with nice people is easy, there are plenty out there. Just dont expect it to come to you without a bit of effort or looking around on your part.
P.S.: Try to aim for a corp with less than 50 members and between 5-10 active at a time. Thats a sweetspot where you always have someone to talk too, yet not so many that you hardly recognize some faces.
Appreciate it, thanks Rocketeer. Just having to wait for a reply from the EvE service team because I lost my password and the password recovery emails wont show up lol.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
I am really trying to convince myself to give EvE a go, I had a dabble about 1-2 years ago but RL meant I had to stop. The community of a game is really important to me, I am not going to play this game if my time will be spent flying around space on my own with only utter anti-social jerks in the chat channels to talk to. I have read pretty much every post on this topic and it just sounds like a big mix of harsh and cruel gameplay and friendly enjoyable gameplay. If the above is correct, is it easy to get into the friendly and enjoyable part? I have played other games with big risk and while I will do my best to avoid it, I can certainly handle it.
It really is all about finding the right corp to join IMO. I've perhaps been very lucky, but all of the corps I've been in had mostly good people, with only a very few exceptions. My experience has also been that the PVP-focused corps tend to be more fun and have nicer people than the ISK-focused corps. That's "tend", by the way. It's not a hard and fast rule.
You may have to try 2 or 3 or 4 corps out before you really find the one that suits you. Dont worry, this is quite normal. As said above, try and narrow your search to corps that are strongly focused on the type of activity you're interested in, be that mining, piracy, or whatever.
Equally importantly, you need to consider what you can offer a corp. Corps above all value people who log in, participate and contribute. Personal SP and wealth are less important than this (although it helps a great deal if you are at least self-sufficient).
If you want to join a mining corp, then put some time in to learning what minerals are important and why, how hauling works & so forth.
If you want to join a PVP corp, try and get some PVP experience, with Faction Warfare, Red vs Blue, Agony Unleashed or even just taking a Rifter in to lo-sec and looking for opportunities.
Consider joining EVE University so that you know the basics of the game. Although corps exist to help their members, it is good to make an effort to reduce the number of noob questions you will ask. EvE players will respect you far more if you've made an effort to find out what you want to know. Few people are despised as much as those who dont even try to do this.
In short, dont worry too much about your skillpoints. Focus on being able to be a good team member, and your corp will value you.
Caveat: Even good corps can sometimes have bad people in them. Keep your personal belongings in your own hangar as much as possible. Dont lend people (or corps) ISK you can't afford to not get back. You will have to trust people to get ahead in EVE, but you should always be mindful not to trust them more than you really have to.
I am really trying to convince myself to give EvE a go, I had a dabble about 1-2 years ago but RL meant I had to stop. The community of a game is really important to me, I am not going to play this game if my time will be spent flying around space on my own with only utter anti-social jerks in the chat channels to talk to. I have read pretty much every post on this topic and it just sounds like a big mix of harsh and cruel gameplay and friendly enjoyable gameplay. If the above is correct, is it easy to get into the friendly and enjoyable part? I have played other games with big risk and while I will do my best to avoid it, I can certainly handle it.
It really is all about finding the right corp to join IMO. I've perhaps been very lucky, but all of the corps I've been in had mostly good people, with only a very few exceptions. My experience has also been that the PVP-focused corps tend to be more fun and have nicer people than the ISK-focused corps. That's "tend", by the way. It's not a hard and fast rule.
You may have to try 2 or 3 or 4 corps out before you really find the one that suits you. Dont worry, this is quite normal. As said above, try and narrow your search to corps that are strongly focused on the type of activity you're interested in, be that mining, piracy, or whatever.
Equally importantly, you need to consider what you can offer a corp. Corps above all value people who log in, participate and contribute. Personal SP and wealth are less important than this (although it helps a great deal if you are at least self-sufficient).
If you want to join a mining corp, then put some time in to learning what minerals are important and why, how hauling works & so forth.
If you want to join a PVP corp, try and get some PVP experience, with Faction Warfare, Red vs Blue, Agony Unleashed or even just taking a Rifter in to lo-sec and looking for opportunities.
Consider joining EVE University so that you know the basics of the game. Although corps exist to help their members, it is good to make an effort to reduce the number of noob questions you will ask. EvE players will respect you far more if you've made an effort to find out what you want to know. Few people are despised as much as those who dont even try to do this.
In short, dont worry too much about your skillpoints. Focus on being able to be a good team member, and your corp will value you.
Caveat: Even good corps can sometimes have bad people in them. Keep your personal belongings in your own hangar as much as possible. Dont lend people (or corps) ISK you can't afford to not get back. You will have to trust people to get ahead in EVE, but you should always be mindful not to trust them more than you really have to.
Its answers like the above, and previous reply to my first post, who give the impression that EvE does have a nice community. You get the odd a-hole. Big deal? You get them in every game, I havent even got round to playing this game yet and I can already tell its going to have a nice community. People just get hung up on the few bad things that happen to them and they end up forgetting about all the good things. Just have to wait for the service team to reply about my password and then I can give it a whirl. The forgot password automatic emails dont work
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
I tried the EvE trial about 6 times before finally committing to the game, and I haven’t been disappointed. My current character is just over 1 year old and I’ve recently landed in a great Corp that’s full of very friendly and mature players.
All of the drama you hear about EvE is largely overblown or (almost) entirely avoidable. I’m not particularly experienced in PvP, but I’m getting there, and virtually all of my encounters have been along the lines of: I get blown up. I say GF in local and ask for some advice. I get advice, as well as money and/or ships on occasion. In one instance my attacker gave me money to replace the ship and modules I’d lost and then invited me into his Corp. On another I became friends with the guy and he gave me other fitting advice later on.
I can say with confidence that the reason my experience has been positive is largely due to my approach. If I choose to fly around in low sec I accept that I may be attacked. If that happens, I don’t bitch and moan about it, I accept it and ask how I can improve myself. I have a sneaking suspicion that those who relate these horrible stories are probably whiners, or extremely confrontational, when they’re attacked in a similar situation – and in EvE if you choose to put yourself at risk and then cry about getting blown up you’ll get no sympathy. If you’re honestly looking to improve yourself, and realize that in the end it’s just a videogame, you’ll meet lots of friendly people.
Also, about the whole podding thing: If you’re smart, and keep your clone up-to-date, getting podded isn’t that big of a deal. If you have expensive implants use a jump clone when doing something dangerous, or do your best to avoid said danger. Of course it will happen that you lose something valuable (ship, implants, whatever), but it’s that sense of real loss that makes EvE fun – your actions, and the actions of others, have real consequence.
In any event, I’ve come from playing WoW and CoX for many years and can honestly say that the EvE community is far, far better than both of those games. This game is about thinking, strategy, some patience and (ironicly enough, based on some of the above comments) your ability to relate to others. It’s not for everyone, but if you do enjoy it, it can become the best game you’ve ever played. I hope you choose to give it a try and find out for yourself.
I am really trying to convince myself to give EvE a go, I had a dabble about 1-2 years ago but RL meant I had to stop. The community of a game is really important to me, I am not going to play this game if my time will be spent flying around space on my own with only utter anti-social jerks in the chat channels to talk to. I have read pretty much every post on this topic and it just sounds like a big mix of harsh and cruel gameplay and friendly enjoyable gameplay. If the above is correct, is it easy to get into the friendly and enjoyable part? I have played other games with big risk and while I will do my best to avoid it, I can certainly handle it.
It really is all about finding the right corp to join IMO. I've perhaps been very lucky, but all of the corps I've been in had mostly good people, with only a very few exceptions. My experience has also been that the PVP-focused corps tend to be more fun and have nicer people than the ISK-focused corps. That's "tend", by the way. It's not a hard and fast rule.
You may have to try 2 or 3 or 4 corps out before you really find the one that suits you. Dont worry, this is quite normal. As said above, try and narrow your search to corps that are strongly focused on the type of activity you're interested in, be that mining, piracy, or whatever.
Equally importantly, you need to consider what you can offer a corp. Corps above all value people who log in, participate and contribute. Personal SP and wealth are less important than this (although it helps a great deal if you are at least self-sufficient).
If you want to join a mining corp, then put some time in to learning what minerals are important and why, how hauling works & so forth.
If you want to join a PVP corp, try and get some PVP experience, with Faction Warfare, Red vs Blue, Agony Unleashed or even just taking a Rifter in to lo-sec and looking for opportunities.
Consider joining EVE University so that you know the basics of the game. Although corps exist to help their members, it is good to make an effort to reduce the number of noob questions you will ask. EvE players will respect you far more if you've made an effort to find out what you want to know. Few people are despised as much as those who dont even try to do this.
In short, dont worry too much about your skillpoints. Focus on being able to be a good team member, and your corp will value you.
Caveat: Even good corps can sometimes have bad people in them. Keep your personal belongings in your own hangar as much as possible. Dont lend people (or corps) ISK you can't afford to not get back. You will have to trust people to get ahead in EVE, but you should always be mindful not to trust them more than you really have to.
Its answers like the above, and previous reply to my first post, who give the impression that EvE does have a nice community. You get the odd a-hole. Big deal? You get them in every game, I havent even got round to playing this game yet and I can already tell its going to have a nice community. People just get hung up on the few bad things that happen to them and they end up forgetting about all the good things. Just have to wait for the service team to reply about my password and then I can give it a whirl. The forgot password automatic emails dont work
Disclaimer: I am a horrible ganking griefer who exists purely to stamp on new players, kick puppies and generally do evil.
Comments
I dont know if this is sarcasm or not but this is clear sign that Eves community is crap. If someone ganks/griefs you it is YOUR (the "victims" fault). It was your fault that you went into lowsec and get podded. Nevermind that podding someone is complete unneccessary and only mostly to hurt the other guy.
But that is irrelevant, it is your fault that you got griefed. High sec ganking is the same, it is your fault for not paying enough attention when someone kamikazes your (defenceless) industrial to get your BPOs. Or that you had a corp thief that took everything you stored in corp hangars. That is your fault too. I mean, you should be telepathic and know who is a thief and who is not.
That is the sentiment most people have in this game. It is always the victims fault, never the aggressors. He is just enjoying the game (on your expense).
By that I dont mean Eve is a bad game, I wouldnt play it if it was, but the community is rotten. However that is not specific for Eve, all FFA full loot PvP games, are usually like that. Probably the nature of internet which brings out the worst of people. The flipside to this is that with all the maggots in the game, being good is noticeable and actually means something. Because there is some truth to the old saying that without Evil, Good would not exist. However Evil can still exist without Good, and Eve is a perfect example of that.
I mean, how many anti-griefing corps (people that hunt griefers) are there out there? A handful? Compared to the houndreds of griefing corps?
My gaming blog
The first time I got killed was by someone flipping my cans when I was just a new player.
It made me curious how long some long term player would camp a newbie in a starter ship and it seems the answer was at least close to 2 hours. After getting flipped a few times, switching ships to something that could hold my ore and prevent more flipping, I figured the knowledge was worth more than the actual ore I lost was going to lose, so I prepared as best I could and opened a can knowing what was going to happen. Even though I could not see my aggressor anywhere I was pretty sure I would die as that is how a decent trap is set.
When I died 30 seconds later, I started a conversation with my attacker to talk about what happened and it was a rather nice conversation. I learned a lot about the game in the next half hour. I learned about cloaked covert operation ships, drones, security ranks, etc.
Personally I think camping newbies is griefing and not something I would ever do, but eve isn't a game about chivalry or some fairness code of conduct. That is how the game works for a reason. Most griefers in other games wouldn't take time to educate a newbie they just slaughtered.
I'm not sure if it is the best community, but there are a number of positive things in the game. The rookie channel with volunteer helpers answering questions, eve-university that accepts newbies with the sole intention of teaching the game, etc. All very positive aspects about the games community.
I dont know if this is sarcasm or not but this is clear sign that Eves community is crap. If someone ganks/griefs you it is YOUR (the "victims" fault).
It was your fault that you went into lowsec and get podded.
Well yeah? It's a game it's not like someone runs across the street and get killed, and someone says "blame yourself"... Again refer to my green text above.
You chosed to do that... oh I didn't know I could get podded, what is lowsec?
One should not really feel that butthurt about it.
Nevermind that podding someone is complete unneccessary and only mostly to hurt the other guy.
That offends you? When you get podded? (I only see it as I (may) lost some stuff.)
But that is irrelevant, it is your fault that you got griefed. High sec ganking is the same, it is your fault for not paying enough attention when someone kamikazes your (defenceless) industrial to get your BPOs.
Could it be avoided by paying attention or by just doing "the right thing" or could it not have been? If so, even here teh biggest reason for that to not exist in other games is solely due to those options being nonexistant.
Or that you had a corp thief that took everything you stored in corp hangars. That is your fault too. I mean, you should be telepathic and know who is a thief and who is not.
It's a game with alot of possibilies, and things to do,. This don't occur in other games? People running off with the raidvault, a guildleader scamming a former guild. I trust in that you are not that naive.
Yeah, in eve this add a layer to the gameplay... And oddly the community can themself punish this character.
That is the sentiment most people have in this game. It is always the victims fault, never the aggressors. He is just enjoying the game (on your expense).
You know there is alot of aggressors that have lost aswell, it's their fault aswell, for losing their ship that is.People are telling all the time, don't use what you can't afford to lose, that is not being rude that is an honest tip. Yet that guy goes out and get's killed, whines about he can't afford to lose it. They say, don't do that you will lose your ship. Yet the guy goes out does just that and lose the ship.
IMO I can blame the guy, this is a game and pixels are cheap.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I dont know if this is sarcasm or not but this is clear sign that Eves community is crap. (Now, now, one person's glib reply isn't a sign of anything, other than a response to what he probably feels is QQing.) If someone ganks/griefs you it is YOUR (the "victims" fault). (It almost always is though) It was your fault that you went into lowsec and get podded. (No one made you go into low sec right, you knew the risks before you ever went there, game even pops up a reminder before you do) Nevermind that podding someone is complete unneccessary and only mostly to hurt the other guy. (While I agree that podding is a bush league tactic and I don't try to do it, the game permits and encourages it so there's no point to raging against the darkness, there are techniques you can employ to make podding almost impossible)
But that is irrelevant, it is your fault that you got griefed. (Yes, again, it is) High sec ganking is the same, it is your fault for not paying enough attention when someone kamikazes your (defenceless) industrial to get your BPOs. (Seriously, don't move BPO's in an industrial, I move all my valuable stuff in heavily resistantance tanked Battlecruisers that can withstand huge alpha strikes. Most poeple don't even bother to scan them. And never travel via autopilot, always stay at the helm and warp to 0) Or that you had a corp thief that took everything you stored in corp hangars. That is your fault too. I mean, you should be telepathic and know who is a thief and who is not. (While I don't agree with the mechanics of this either, it is part of the game, and the defense to it is to never store all your eggs in one basket. This really has nothing to do with the overall community of the game though)
That is the sentiment most people have in this game. It is always the victims fault, never the aggressors. He is just enjoying the game (on your expense). And they are quite correct. Almost all losses are avoidable on your part if the proper precautions are taken. I generally don't lose, as I'm careful with what I fly, where I fly it, and what I put on or in it. And I never lose what I can't afford to.
By that I dont mean Eve is a bad game, I wouldnt play it if it was, but the community is rotten. (None of your points so far really deal with the overall community, just your unhappiness on how the play style of some players negatively impacts you, but they are playing the role that CCP intended them to.) However that is not specific for Eve, all FFA full loot PvP games, are usually like that. Probably the nature of internet which brings out the worst of people. (No, in EVE, killing other playes, griefing other players, making other players cry is strongly encouraged by the game mechanics. It also teaches a person how to fly smart and safe, something I've been doing for over 2.5 years now) The flipside to this is that with all the maggots in the game, being good is noticeable and actually means something. (What you need to understand is those "maggots" you hate are just gamers, not bad people, and in fact, it is rarely personal, they are just playing the game as it was intended) Because there is some truth to the old saying that without Evil, Good would not exist. However Evil can still exist without Good, and Eve is a perfect example of that. (EVE is a perfect example of the many shades of gray. One person's good guy is another porson's greatest demon. I'm basically a benign player who does not go out of his way to kill people, however I've killed my share of lone miners and salvagers, and while I felt bad about it, I still killed them. There is no real good and evil in a game like EVE, since the consequences are virutal, and not part of real life.
I mean, how many anti-griefing corps (people that hunt griefers) are there out there? A handful? Compared to the houndreds of griefing corps? Well, there's an entire alliance (CVA) that works hard to prevent the griefing of those in its borders, and every alliance protects its members from those who would attack it.
As for corporations to hunt griefers, there's been many, but its largely unprofitable, and in EVE, profit is the number one driving force of almost all activites. (as it should be)
You play EVE, but you really don't understand EVE. You wan't the game to be something its not, you want the players to behave themselves, and get angry when they don't conform to your standards of morality and fair play.
Me, I take the high ground as much as I can, despise ganking pirates as much as you do, but the difference is, I don't expect them to be anything other than what they are, and I adjust my play style accordingly to stay out of their way.
When I do screw up and lose a ship, I always respond with "good fight" even if I was killed 25-1. Never hurts to go out with a little class.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is another big misunderstanding here i think, its about the "Its your own fault" that gets thrown around alot concerning eve. People take that as a offense and read "You shouldnt go into lowsec/nullsec/jita if not looking for pvp" into it, and indeed that is the short version that gets used because there are a myriad reasons for your problems with pirates, griefers etc that could be avoided by not being in the place when it hits the fan.
But really, thats not what it means. When i say "Its your own (damn) fault" i mean that literally. Like when someone crosses a street without looking left and right for cars and then getting hit by a car. Sure i feel bad for him, but if he starts screaming how its the drivers/street/government fault, i start loosing sympathy and might say something glib like well "dont cross streets then if you cant handle it".
The key part of my long post was not that its your, the players fault, if you get ganked/scammed/suicided by some madman. The key part was that it basicly never happens to me, arguably a experienced player, in many years just because im more knowledgeable in gamemechanics and take basic precautions. In other words i do look if there is a car coming before i cross a street.
There are many many tools and behaviors available to you to ensure your safety, but you need to piece them together, to form a picture that makes sense. This is not the thread to discuss these measures as it would be offtopic, i just wanted to point out that the eve community is maybe not half as harsh as you may think, we are just very tired of explaining basic safety measures(many of which are rather obvious) again and again, and just saying "stay out of lowsec if you cant handle loosing ships" is so much easier. And you will loose ships, but you will loose them because you do something wrong, or have very bad luck, not because of the evil pirates.
The reason why so many people think , that EvE is horrible and the community doesn't deserve this reward is, that people don't understand EvE.
EvE is a FFA PvP game. The developers of EvE say it themselves over and over again: "EvE was not designed to look like a cold harsh universe, it was designed to be a cold harsh universe."
So if you jump into the game, without preparing yourself to enter a cold harsh universe, then you'll hit a brick-wall and absolutely dislike the game and it's community.
Those people who make EvE the best MMO of the last years are those, who fill the cold harsh universe with life and death, not love.
the reason i think EVE has won this award is because the community extends beyond just a chat channel and forum. You have the magazine, radio stations, the machima, blogs, eve files, eve central, scrapheap, kugutsumen etc etc etc... the list goes on and on.
The players thrive off the meta game and this builds the community even more.
It's nice to get community recognition but the way they choose to portray it... poorly done.
Read through this thread of replies -- both the angry ones as well as the justification posts.
*IF* <condition one> *IF* <condition two> then it's good.
As in: *IF* you are this type of player.... *IF* you can handle the harsh raw nature of play... *THEN* the community is good.
Read the article for why they chose EVE instead of applying unstated justifications. If they chose the aspects you outlined, then it would be a top contender but the criteria they used... It reads like "Welcome to Hello Kitty!" more than the EVE community.
To put it another way -- we sure as hell don't need the types of folks this article will attract coming in the game. This game is not for those looking for a warm, friendly community full of sunshine and well wishes to all... As such it is misleading to those who look to community reviews for deciding upon online games.
If you want nice and sweet play time; try a different game; *NOT* EVE.
You play EVE, but you really don't understand EVE. You wan't the game to be something its not, you want the players to behave themselves, and get angry when they don't conform to your standards of morality and fair play.
Me, I take the high ground as much as I can, despise ganking pirates as much as you do, but the difference is, I don't expect them to be anything other than what they are, and I adjust my play style accordingly to stay out of their way.
When I do screw up and lose a ship, I always respond with "good fight" even if I was killed 25-1. Never hurts to go out with a little class.
Uhm what? My post is not about what is wrong in Eve, it is what it is, but to say that it has the best community despite all the people that would go to great lenghts to grief you, is for me ridicilous.
Want people to behave themselves? Where did I say that? People can behave as they wish (and as the devs allow them to) but if they behave like asses I dont see that being a reason for winning best community award.
People say that Eves community is mature but age does not automatically imply maturity. I dont feel it is mature for people to have sick and offensive bios like: I creampied your mother (real example).
I dont think it is sign of a good community to have 100 variations of Satans Desciples as corp name.
Or to pod people just for the heck of it.
Or to have corps that scam people of their money (Eve Intergalactic Bank)
Do I think it needs to be changed? I dont know, that is not the point, but the best community it is not. Not by my definition anyway.
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Yeah sure, I agree. But what makes it the best community? I mean if the community is full of scammers, griefers and people who smacktalk then how is that best community?
Best for scammers, griefers and smacktalkers maybe.
I mean, does anyone here deny that Eve has alot of those kind of people? If you do then I can see how you think the community is good, if you dont then I cant.
I play Eve because it is a "free" universe and it is interesting to see what kind of people will prosper in such an anarchistic type of game and I like the adrenaline rush when doing bussiness in lowsec because I know there are alot of bad people that wants to kill me "just because". But the sideeffect of playing in an anarchistic virtual society is that there are alot of bad people there and that cant possibly make the community good.
Eve is an interesting experiment in human nature and what would happen if most or all laws and rules would break down and the result is that chaos, selfishness and arrogance dominates and those elements are not what I would want in a good community.
Take a game like WAR as another example. On the PvP servers there one could go to the other side and grief people yet that happened very rarely since there was little reward for it and your victim lost very little when you do gank him. So that resulted in a rather friendly atmosphere where people fought each other but did not go to great lengths to grief others and that is because the game mechanics did not reward such behaviour (but it was possible).
Eve rewards such behaviour, both by giving you loot/salvage and by the possibility to inflict alot of damage on your victims. So in a sense the game mechanics support that behaviour and that, imo, leads to a bad community full of griefers.
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I understand what you say but dont agree with it. And your example was flawed because those cars do not have the intent to run you over, pirates do. Another better RL example would be if you go to a bad neighborhood and you get mugged/raped/killed. Is it the person who commited these acts that is at fault or you who went into a bad neighborhood.
With your reasoning it would be your fault, but society would punish the violator so by societies laws and my opinion it is never the victims fault. The victim maybe be irresponsible but ultimately if you commit the crime you cannot blame the victim.
In Eve those crimes carry little consequence. Having low security status means little since you can have alts that does your bussiness in high sec and you can have stations in 0.0 space and the bounty system is flawed since game mechanics does not make it easy to find and hunt down low sec people, nor do NPCs care about those people in lowsec space.
So your RL comparison is flawed. Eve is more like an anarchistic society with little consequence for bad behaviour.
Again not saying that Eve should be this or that but rather that the game mechanics in Eve fosters bad behaviour, by rewarding it, and having little consequences for it and that, imo, leads to a bad community. Full of people looking to gank, cheat and scam people.
Could you avoid those people? Yeah sure, but none the less they are part of the community.
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You make a big mistake: good community != friendly community
That's where you fail, and that's why you don't understand, that the community is absolutely great in that.
Actually, the community of EvE Online is way more friendly then that of all other MMOs I've played or tried: Neocron, DAoC, WAR, AoC, Fallen Earth and even WoW.
I'm a PvP-player and I don't expect players in a PvP-centric MMO to be friendly for most of the time while shooting at each other, but the community of EvE is very friendly actually outside the game itself when it's not about politics.
And a person is not unfriendly at all, just because they kill you in the game. That would be like saying: All FPS-players are unfriendly.
That's why I said there before, that the community of EvE is actually a perfect match for the game, as the game is designed to be a harsh and cold universe.
I am really trying to convince myself to give EvE a go, I had a dabble about 1-2 years ago but RL meant I had to stop. The community of a game is really important to me, I am not going to play this game if my time will be spent flying around space on my own with only utter anti-social jerks in the chat channels to talk to. I have read pretty much every post on this topic and it just sounds like a big mix of harsh and cruel gameplay and friendly enjoyable gameplay.
If the above is correct, is it easy to get into the friendly and enjoyable part? I have played other games with big risk and while I will do my best to avoid it, I can certainly handle it.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
Personally i find it really easy. I changed corps maybe 5 times in as many years, and i have never been put off by the members. Most people that have issues with this are simply lazy, they stay in the npc corps where everyone from iskspammer to farmbot starts out and then complain about the corpchat. Or they decide they want to try out a playercorp, and 5 min laters they took the first recruitment offer they saw in local and are appalled to find out its a bunch of jerks. Its really easy steps to find a good corp:
1. Decide what you want to do, or sometimes more important, what you dont want to do.
2. Join the ingame recruitment channel, thats how i found my corp, its a good place to start looking.
3. Visit the recruitment subforum on the official forums, just take a look at what is going on, what kind of corps are out there. Rule of thumb, if a prospective corp cant even be bothered to have a forum thread you shouldnt be bothered to go to the trouble checking them out some other ways.
4. Most corps looking for new members have a public channel, i typically hang out in such a place anywhere between a couple days or weeks(dont rush things, get to know the guys first).
5. Talk with the recruitment guys/girls, not just about joining the corp, but the game in general, are they a friendly bunch?
6. Ask specific questions. Is profanity tolerated in corpchat, how is the maturity of the members, is the CEO trying to boss people around or is he a laidback fellow, are there mandatory corp ops/activities, if so why?
Rinse and repeat, the most important thing is really just talking to the guys. Start with some corpdescribtion that rings a bell for you, for me it was a remark in a recruitmentpost that the corp is compromised of mostly older gamers with families and jobs that dont put pressure on members and recognize RL comes first.
So yeah imho finding a good corp with nice people is easy, there are plenty out there. Just dont expect it to come to you without a bit of effort or looking around on your part.
P.S.: Try to aim for a corp with less than 50 members and between 5-10 active at a time. Thats a sweetspot where you always have someone to talk too, yet not so many that you hardly recognize some faces.
EVE has the best community?
should be a joke
btw maybe immature adults have better humor than wow kids
Uhm what? My post is not about what is wrong in Eve, it is what it is, but to say that it has the best community despite all the people that would go to great lenghts to grief you, is for me ridicilous.
Want people to behave themselves? Where did I say that? People can behave as they wish (and as the devs allow them to) but if they behave like asses I dont see that being a reason for winning best community award.
People say that Eves community is mature but age does not automatically imply maturity. I dont feel it is mature for people to have sick and offensive bios like: I creampied your mother (real example).
I dont think it is sign of a good community to have 100 variations of Satans Desciples as corp name.
Or to pod people just for the heck of it.
Or to have corps that scam people of their money (Eve Intergalactic Bank)
Do I think it needs to be changed? I dont know, that is not the point, but the best community it is not. Not by my definition anyway.
OK, let's examine your post.
You dislike offensive bio's. So do I, along with craptastic names, (corp or character) so follow my lead, don't read their bio's and block their names when they offend you. I've never spent a minute talking with people like you describe, fortunately there's usually 25K other people to converse with you. That said, the few people that do this do not make for a bad community. (most BIO's are pretty interesting, and some are downright helpful).
Podding people is no big deal, cost you very little unless of course, you are wearing expensive implants that you can't afford to lose. I don't go out of my way to pod others, but if the target presents itself, I'll take the shot.
As for the EVE Banking scam, that was again the actions of a a few, and just like in real life, there are bad apples. Doesn't mean the majority of the players are decent.
You seem to focus so much on the bad people do, and never on the good they have in them. I've been helped by far more people in EVE than been annoyed by, more so than any other game I've played..
It appears you feel a good community constitutes a bunch of alterusitc do-gooders and that most certainly doesn't describe EVE.
However, learrn how to manueveur (and even maniupulate) the community and you'll have a terrfiic time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally i find it really easy. I changed corps maybe 5 times in as many years, and i have never been put off by the members. Most people that have issues with this are simply lazy, they stay in the npc corps where everyone from iskspammer to farmbot starts out and then complain about the corpchat. Or they decide they want to try out a playercorp, and 5 min laters they took the first recruitment offer they saw in local and are appalled to find out its a bunch of jerks. Its really easy steps to find a good corp:
1. Decide what you want to do, or sometimes more important, what you dont want to do.
2. Join the ingame recruitment channel, thats how i found my corp, its a good place to start looking.
3. Visit the recruitment subforum on the official forums, just take a look at what is going on, what kind of corps are out there. Rule of thumb, if a prospective corp cant even be bothered to have a forum thread you shouldnt be bothered to go to the trouble checking them out some other ways.
4. Most corps looking for new members have a public channel, i typically hang out in such a place anywhere between a couple days or weeks(dont rush things, get to know the guys first).
5. Talk with the recruitment guys/girls, not just about joining the corp, but the game in general, are they a friendly bunch?
6. Ask specific questions. Is profanity tolerated in corpchat, how is the maturity of the members, is the CEO trying to boss people around or is he a laidback fellow, are there mandatory corp ops/activities, if so why?
Rinse and repeat, the most important thing is really just talking to the guys. Start with some corpdescribtion that rings a bell for you, for me it was a remark in a recruitmentpost that the corp is compromised of mostly older gamers with families and jobs that dont put pressure on members and recognize RL comes first.
So yeah imho finding a good corp with nice people is easy, there are plenty out there. Just dont expect it to come to you without a bit of effort or looking around on your part.
P.S.: Try to aim for a corp with less than 50 members and between 5-10 active at a time. Thats a sweetspot where you always have someone to talk too, yet not so many that you hardly recognize some faces.
Appreciate it, thanks Rocketeer. Just having to wait for a reply from the EvE service team because I lost my password and the password recovery emails wont show up lol.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
It really is all about finding the right corp to join IMO. I've perhaps been very lucky, but all of the corps I've been in had mostly good people, with only a very few exceptions. My experience has also been that the PVP-focused corps tend to be more fun and have nicer people than the ISK-focused corps. That's "tend", by the way. It's not a hard and fast rule.
You may have to try 2 or 3 or 4 corps out before you really find the one that suits you. Dont worry, this is quite normal. As said above, try and narrow your search to corps that are strongly focused on the type of activity you're interested in, be that mining, piracy, or whatever.
Equally importantly, you need to consider what you can offer a corp. Corps above all value people who log in, participate and contribute. Personal SP and wealth are less important than this (although it helps a great deal if you are at least self-sufficient).
If you want to join a mining corp, then put some time in to learning what minerals are important and why, how hauling works & so forth.
If you want to join a PVP corp, try and get some PVP experience, with Faction Warfare, Red vs Blue, Agony Unleashed or even just taking a Rifter in to lo-sec and looking for opportunities.
Consider joining EVE University so that you know the basics of the game. Although corps exist to help their members, it is good to make an effort to reduce the number of noob questions you will ask. EvE players will respect you far more if you've made an effort to find out what you want to know. Few people are despised as much as those who dont even try to do this.
In short, dont worry too much about your skillpoints. Focus on being able to be a good team member, and your corp will value you.
Caveat: Even good corps can sometimes have bad people in them. Keep your personal belongings in your own hangar as much as possible. Dont lend people (or corps) ISK you can't afford to not get back. You will have to trust people to get ahead in EVE, but you should always be mindful not to trust them more than you really have to.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
It really is all about finding the right corp to join IMO. I've perhaps been very lucky, but all of the corps I've been in had mostly good people, with only a very few exceptions. My experience has also been that the PVP-focused corps tend to be more fun and have nicer people than the ISK-focused corps. That's "tend", by the way. It's not a hard and fast rule.
You may have to try 2 or 3 or 4 corps out before you really find the one that suits you. Dont worry, this is quite normal. As said above, try and narrow your search to corps that are strongly focused on the type of activity you're interested in, be that mining, piracy, or whatever.
Equally importantly, you need to consider what you can offer a corp. Corps above all value people who log in, participate and contribute. Personal SP and wealth are less important than this (although it helps a great deal if you are at least self-sufficient).
If you want to join a mining corp, then put some time in to learning what minerals are important and why, how hauling works & so forth.
If you want to join a PVP corp, try and get some PVP experience, with Faction Warfare, Red vs Blue, Agony Unleashed or even just taking a Rifter in to lo-sec and looking for opportunities.
Consider joining EVE University so that you know the basics of the game. Although corps exist to help their members, it is good to make an effort to reduce the number of noob questions you will ask. EvE players will respect you far more if you've made an effort to find out what you want to know. Few people are despised as much as those who dont even try to do this.
In short, dont worry too much about your skillpoints. Focus on being able to be a good team member, and your corp will value you.
Caveat: Even good corps can sometimes have bad people in them. Keep your personal belongings in your own hangar as much as possible. Dont lend people (or corps) ISK you can't afford to not get back. You will have to trust people to get ahead in EVE, but you should always be mindful not to trust them more than you really have to.
Its answers like the above, and previous reply to my first post, who give the impression that EvE does have a nice community. You get the odd a-hole. Big deal? You get them in every game, I havent even got round to playing this game yet and I can already tell its going to have a nice community. People just get hung up on the few bad things that happen to them and they end up forgetting about all the good things. Just have to wait for the service team to reply about my password and then I can give it a whirl. The forgot password automatic emails dont work
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
Bazzyrick,
I tried the EvE trial about 6 times before finally committing to the game, and I haven’t been disappointed. My current character is just over 1 year old and I’ve recently landed in a great Corp that’s full of very friendly and mature players.
All of the drama you hear about EvE is largely overblown or (almost) entirely avoidable. I’m not particularly experienced in PvP, but I’m getting there, and virtually all of my encounters have been along the lines of: I get blown up. I say GF in local and ask for some advice. I get advice, as well as money and/or ships on occasion. In one instance my attacker gave me money to replace the ship and modules I’d lost and then invited me into his Corp. On another I became friends with the guy and he gave me other fitting advice later on.
I can say with confidence that the reason my experience has been positive is largely due to my approach. If I choose to fly around in low sec I accept that I may be attacked. If that happens, I don’t bitch and moan about it, I accept it and ask how I can improve myself. I have a sneaking suspicion that those who relate these horrible stories are probably whiners, or extremely confrontational, when they’re attacked in a similar situation – and in EvE if you choose to put yourself at risk and then cry about getting blown up you’ll get no sympathy. If you’re honestly looking to improve yourself, and realize that in the end it’s just a videogame, you’ll meet lots of friendly people.
Also, about the whole podding thing: If you’re smart, and keep your clone up-to-date, getting podded isn’t that big of a deal. If you have expensive implants use a jump clone when doing something dangerous, or do your best to avoid said danger. Of course it will happen that you lose something valuable (ship, implants, whatever), but it’s that sense of real loss that makes EvE fun – your actions, and the actions of others, have real consequence.
In any event, I’ve come from playing WoW and CoX for many years and can honestly say that the EvE community is far, far better than both of those games. This game is about thinking, strategy, some patience and (ironicly enough, based on some of the above comments) your ability to relate to others. It’s not for everyone, but if you do enjoy it, it can become the best game you’ve ever played. I hope you choose to give it a try and find out for yourself.
Good luck, and fly safe!
It really is all about finding the right corp to join IMO. I've perhaps been very lucky, but all of the corps I've been in had mostly good people, with only a very few exceptions. My experience has also been that the PVP-focused corps tend to be more fun and have nicer people than the ISK-focused corps. That's "tend", by the way. It's not a hard and fast rule.
You may have to try 2 or 3 or 4 corps out before you really find the one that suits you. Dont worry, this is quite normal. As said above, try and narrow your search to corps that are strongly focused on the type of activity you're interested in, be that mining, piracy, or whatever.
Equally importantly, you need to consider what you can offer a corp. Corps above all value people who log in, participate and contribute. Personal SP and wealth are less important than this (although it helps a great deal if you are at least self-sufficient).
If you want to join a mining corp, then put some time in to learning what minerals are important and why, how hauling works & so forth.
If you want to join a PVP corp, try and get some PVP experience, with Faction Warfare, Red vs Blue, Agony Unleashed or even just taking a Rifter in to lo-sec and looking for opportunities.
Consider joining EVE University so that you know the basics of the game. Although corps exist to help their members, it is good to make an effort to reduce the number of noob questions you will ask. EvE players will respect you far more if you've made an effort to find out what you want to know. Few people are despised as much as those who dont even try to do this.
In short, dont worry too much about your skillpoints. Focus on being able to be a good team member, and your corp will value you.
Caveat: Even good corps can sometimes have bad people in them. Keep your personal belongings in your own hangar as much as possible. Dont lend people (or corps) ISK you can't afford to not get back. You will have to trust people to get ahead in EVE, but you should always be mindful not to trust them more than you really have to.
Its answers like the above, and previous reply to my first post, who give the impression that EvE does have a nice community. You get the odd a-hole. Big deal? You get them in every game, I havent even got round to playing this game yet and I can already tell its going to have a nice community. People just get hung up on the few bad things that happen to them and they end up forgetting about all the good things. Just have to wait for the service team to reply about my password and then I can give it a whirl. The forgot password automatic emails dont work
Disclaimer: I am a horrible ganking griefer who exists purely to stamp on new players, kick puppies and generally do evil.
Ask anyone.
Give me liberty or give me lasers