The game actually seamlessly encourages grouping a lot. In fact I've been in many groups so far without ever having to look for one. What happens is if you go into a mission the same time as other players you'll be auto grouped with them(You can opt out if you want). The group play is a blast in space as it's pretty hard for one player to bork things up on you. This is a major plus for this game. As for ground group play it needs a little work but is still enjoyable.
Bren
The underlined part is great because I still remember countless times of being killed in SWG because of some idiot in the group using an area attack on pickets.
Best part about this game? It uninstalls really quickly. Was hoping for a Star Trek game (Exploring, Diplomacy, Talking to crew members, walking through my own ship). But I get a glorified space combat game with star trek skins. And not a very good one either. Goodbye Cryptic and good riddance.
Corporation, n: An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
I have a feeling that once the MMO market truly becomes saturated, you'll see more and more companies willing to settle for niche markets like hardcores, rabid roleplayers and pvp gankers without forcing them to suffer any casual content at all. I'm looking forward to that day, so that I can have a casual game with absolutely no hardcore content to ruin my experience.
Best part about this game? It uninstalls really quickly. Was hoping for a Star Trek game (Exploring, Diplomacy, Talking to crew members, walking through my own ship). But I get a glorified space combat game with star trek skins. And not a very good one either. Goodbye Cryptic and good riddance.
Yeh! You showed them! GRRRRR! (shakes fist at screen)
I have a feeling that once the MMO market truly becomes saturated...
Truly becomes saturated? It's already ridiculous how many there are between the amount of p2p and f2p ones out there.
Think we've already reached that point myself. Which is why within the next year or so you're probably going to see some close their doors or venture into a different marketing scheme like DDO did to try and stay afloat.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Best part about this game? It uninstalls really quickly. Was hoping for a Star Trek game (Exploring, Diplomacy, Talking to crew members, walking through my own ship). But I get a glorified space combat game with star trek skins. And not a very good one either. Goodbye Cryptic and good riddance.
So, you'd prefer The Sims Online with a Star Trek skin?
Honestly, when I first visualized a Star Trek MMO, I was of similar mind to you in what I thought that would be like. Crewing a ship that is exploring the galaxy, working at a station or department, trips to Ten-Forward, the holodeck, etc. Then, I thought about it a little bit more - how exactly that would work, and what playing such a game would be like day to day. I now find it hard to believe that such a game wouldn't be the more boring MMO in existance, with only some of the most hardcore "Bravo Fleet" types remaining subscribed. Definitely not a recipe for a commercially successful MMO.
In any event, I see more differences than similarities between STO and CO.
I guess what bugs me most about space combat is that it is basically like 'normal' MMO combat. Rather than making a ship that you command, it's like switching power sets and changing the skin of your avatar from humanoid to , well, space ship. Does that make sense? Well, what I mean to say is that the ship plays like a normal MMO toon - third person, a quickbar, items to slot and some extra abilities (your bridge officers). And even on high settings space looks very underwhelming, somehow. Ground combat was ok, so far - just very standard MMO fare. We'll see where it goes from here - at least the tutorial mission was, so far, quite ok - but that doesn't say much about the game as a whole, does it..
well its 100% obvious that you havent played champions and sto at all. as the 2 play nothing alike. yes your ground crew can use hyposprays and tricorders to heal, they can also shoot guns and fight in hand to hand. ships fight in styles based on how you arm them weaponry wise and what kind of foe youre fighting. please play the game before you judge it.
Bah! MMO elitists the lot of you! Seriously, I love this game. Maybe it will get repetitive, I never played CO,
But your gonna comment on the thread anyway when the topic is something you have no idea about.
Nice!
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
There are no tradeskills whatsoever.. No cooking? No engineering? No hobbies or anything to pass the time like other traditional MMO's.. No Klingon PvE content? C'mon, really! Can you imagine WoW without the Horde? or Star Wars without the Empire or Sith to play? I like a fluid world where you don't have to "zone" into every place you go.. So to go from Sector 2 to Sector 3 (even tho it's right next door), you have to zone into it? Last time I had to deal with that on a regular bases was EQ1..Are there fleet battles? Similar to fantasy game raids, where it's 5, 10 or 20 vs equal numbers npc ships? From what I heard as well, is that the shards? (instances) can only handle approx 50 people.. I guess that means the most PvP action STO is ever going to see is 25 v 25.. Shame.. I enjoy the PvP time doing Wintergrasp, Alteric Valley type bg's in WoW.. Even in PvP, is there a purpose or rewards? If the Klingons win a battle do they get to own a certain sector of space, or vice versa?
Sounds like someone missed the boat on a lot of what makes a "MMORPG" fun..
I guess what bugs me most about space combat is that it is basically like 'normal' MMO combat. Rather than making a ship that you command, it's like switching power sets and changing the skin of your avatar from humanoid to , well, space ship. Does that make sense? Well, what I mean to say is that the ship plays like a normal MMO toon - third person, a quickbar, items to slot and some extra abilities (your bridge officers). And even on high settings space looks very underwhelming, somehow. Ground combat was ok, so far - just very standard MMO fare. We'll see where it goes from here - at least the tutorial mission was, so far, quite ok - but that doesn't say much about the game as a whole, does it..
well its 100% obvious that you havent played champions and sto at all. as the 2 play nothing alike. yes your ground crew can use hyposprays and tricorders to heal, they can also shoot guns and fight in hand to hand. ships fight in styles based on how you arm them weaponry wise and what kind of foe youre fighting. please play the game before you judge it.
[Mod Edit]
Beta tester of CO, even had a subcription for a month, so just keep such comments behind your teeth where they belong. By the way, where did I mention CO...?
As for my comment:
Animation work, esthetics, even some artwork, much of the underlying combat dynamics - all taken from CO. And that is really no surprise, because, well, they used the same engine and tool kit.
The point of my post was that instead of piloting a ship, your ship is like a normal MMO avatar. This is actually something that is very very obvious in beta right now, because sometimes your will beam to the surface and appear as space ship, not as humanoid (or vice versa). Makes for a good laugh, the first time around. But after that it's a bit sobering.
I would have preferred are more space-sim-type approach to the ship-aspect of the game. The way it is now it is just too obvious that they picked the path of least resistance, which doesn't earn them my respect (not that they care, by hey ^^). I suppose they will prove me wrong if it turns out that theirimplementation of space combat has a long-lasting appeal, but it looks like something that may get old very fast.
Over the course of the last five years mmo design has turned on its head imo. The evolution of the mmo has been crippled by its own success in effect.
Go back ten years and designers had few pre-concieved notions of what an mmo was - they began with a theme or game concept and approached the project by considering 'how could we make that theme/concept' into a game that is massively multiplayer? In this case the design evolves out of the theme and becomes a game with a largely unique flavlour and style.
Today that approach is reverse, now the deisgn is looked at as "we want an mmo so it has to have x,y,z.... errr now we need some theme or concept to make an excuse for people to play!" with this approach mmo studios design a bunch of generic game modules independently of one another....they bolt them together without any real thought or consideration of why the player might be using them or indeed even if those modules should exist in the intended environment....then far later in the day than is healthy they apply a graphical reskin to the world and regurgitate a bunch of innane text contrived to fit the generic game mechanics their modules permit. The result is an increasing lack of imagination, distinction and variety in these games, they arrive looking suspiciously like other games but with each iteration the connection to the theme, the games soul, is diminished.
The sad cnsequence for gamers is that games of old while infused with a greater sympathy for their designated theme, are constrained by the technical and creative limitations of their time. More modern mmo's are conversely constrained by a lack of consideration of the unifying theme till too late in the day, that and the lazy conciet that all they really need to do is look at WoW. Till we see a courageous studio take a lead the similarity between mmo's even with entirely different theme's will be increasingly evident - a graphical reskin/update but with the same strengths, same weakenesses, same reliance on staple mechanics but even less soul as those mmo's that already exist.
this game is a major let down same structure as WoW and Champions and as everyone knows wow is the superior game
doesn't even feel like a sci fi game figures cryptic is just milking the name it's a shame i would have loved a good star trek MMO
That's what I wanted, but - honestly? I am really enjoying the space combat. It is done very well. Not perfect, and some things could be added, but it is fun for me.
No - no one has commandeered my PC and is posting in my name.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter That's what I wanted, but - honestly? I am really enjoying the space combat. It is done very well. Not perfect, and some things could be added, but it is fun for me. No - no one has commandeered my PC and is posting in my name.
Is it fun enough to play for a year or just fun like WAR for 3 weeks? (I really want to know).
As I see it is the biggest problem most likely that there is no way they can make the Trekkies happy with this game and they are really the ones the game should be for. That is the same mistake Mythic did with the Warhammer IP.
Hopefully can they get MMO fans to play it instead if it is fun enough in the long term but there are millions of Trekkies and it is a shame to make a hasty game that isn't aimed on them.
The first important thing to do when you are making a MMO is figuring out who your potential customer base is and how to make them happy. Cryptic by themselves have a rather small fan base, at least compared to Star trek so in my opinion does it sounds like they should have focused more on the fans.
But that is just based on beta reviews and a few threads here, I am not in the beta and I could be wrong, maybe the game is great for the Trekkies.
Dangit, this mmo plays like a mmo. We been tricked!
QFT
I think most people were expecting a 'Galaxy/Starship Simulator'
Every MMO follows the same recipe
1) Create Toon
2) Go to X
3) Get mission (generic set up of missions)*See Below*
4) Complete Mission
5) Get reward, go to Step 2 and repeat ad infinitum
**Missions**
Mission will vary in accordance to the type of game you ahve, so for Fantasy this will involve going to Location Y killing Z and retunring to Quest Giver.
For Sci-Fi this will involve , travelling to Location Y Killing Z and hailing Questgiver on 'Future tech' to hand in and obtain more gear, for Variety in Sci-Fi though we can make quests Vehicle or Player skinned missions.
HELLO!!!
Was anyone REALLY expecting anything ground breaking? honestly? deep doen in your heart of hearts with everything you have read in teh past 6 months, did you honestly think it would be anything other than this?
The only thing mission from STO is Faction grinding which is the new 'MUST HAVE' for MMO's, maybe they will add it in later, heck they got 'player housing' started, ok its jsut a bridge atm but they can expand on that in future, just like ANY OTHER MMO has been doing since launch, for gawds sake, even WoW *shudder* wasnt as complete as it is now at launch, even EvE was an ugly duckling that has grown.
AS long as the game has enough subs to support it, enough people playing it then it will be enhanced, jsut as long as they dont do an SoE
Over the course of the last five years mmo design has turned on its head imo. The evolution of the mmo has been crippled by its own success in effect. Go back ten years and designers had few pre-concieved notions of what an mmo was - they began with a theme or game concept and approached the project by considering 'how could we make that theme/concept' into a game that is massively multiplayer? In this case the design evolves out of the theme and becomes a game with a largely unique flavlour and style. Today that approach is reverse, now the deisgn is looked at as "we want an mmo so it has to have x,y,z.... errr now we need some theme or concept to make an excuse for people to play!" with this approach mmo studios design a bunch of generic game modules independently of one another....they bolt them together without any real thought or consideration of why the player might be using them or indeed even if those modules should exist in the intended environment....then far later in the day than is healthy they apply a graphical reskin to the world and regurgitate a bunch of innane text contrived to fit the generic game mechanics their modules permit. The result is an increasing lack of imagination, distinction and variety in these games, they arrive looking suspiciously like other games but with each iteration the connection to the theme, the games soul, is diminished. The sad cnsequence for gamers is that games of old while infused with a greater sympathy for their designated theme, are constrained by the technical and creative limitations of their time. More modern mmo's are conversely constrained by a lack of consideration of the unifying theme till too late in the day, that and the lazy conciet that all they really need to do is look at WoW. Till we see a courageous studio take a lead the similarity between mmo's even with entirely different theme's will be increasingly evident - a graphical reskin/update but with the same strengths, same weakenesses, same reliance on staple mechanics but even less soul as those mmo's that already exist.
Originally posted by Loke666 Is it fun enough to play for a year or just fun like WAR for 3 weeks? (I really want to know).
That is a very good question. Now, I played WAR for a year - almost exclusively PvP in T1 & T2, so I might have different ideas of fun than you.
Ask me on Monday. I want to get in a lot of space combat to see if it gets old. If I am still enjoying it by then - I will probably buy this game.
You heard me right. As I see it is the biggest problem most likely that there is no way they can make the Trekkies happy with this game and they are really the ones the game should be for. That is the same mistake Mythic did with the Warhammer IP. No question, this game breaks the IP a LOT, but if you just think about it as a space combat game, and forget about Trek, the space combat is very good. The ground combat kinda blows, and it feels less like Trek, as well. I'd feel a lot better about the game if they hadn't taken the Trek license, no doubt. Hopefully can they get MMO fans to play it instead if it is fun enough in the long term but there are millions of Trekkies and it is a shame to make a hasty game that isn't aimed on them. I completely agree. I doubt serious Trek fans will like this game much. There is so much lacking, and so much not-Trek. The first important thing to do when you are making a MMO is figuring out who your potential customer base is and how to make them happy. Cryptic by themselves have a rather small fan base, at least compared to Star trek so in my opinion does it sounds like they should have focused more on the fans. No question. A great Trek MMORPG would hold 500,000 subs easily, IMO. No way this game will.
But that is just based on beta reviews and a few threads here, I am not in the beta and I could be wrong, maybe the game is great for the Trekkies.
Sadly, no.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Is it fun enough to play for a year or just fun like WAR for 3 weeks? (I really want to know).
for me its gonna be "3 weeks". All Cryptic games are action packed beat-em-ups, thats what they do (even with star trek apparently). I have had fun with it, but playing for a whole year??.....doing what? I can see this being like CoH, a game that people resub to when they feel like kicking some ass.
Both Cryptic and the players would be better off if this game were f2p. Then people wouldnt have to worry about whether this is worthy of their $$$ ( I dont think it is). They could just play the game and have fun.....and occasionaly throw a few bucks Cryptics way.
From what I can see, there looks like to be two camps on what they expected (or wanted) Star Trek Online to be.
A) Something similar to Earth and Beyond (aka wow clone) with the Star Trek theme
Something similar to Eve Online (sandbox) with the Star Trek theme
So far from what I gather (from comments), it doesn't come close to either of those. I haven't played the beta yet so I cannot comment on what I see. Anyone agree/disagree?
So.. From what I'm gathering... There are no tradeskills whatsoever.. No cooking? No engineering? No hobbies or anything to pass the time like other traditional MMO's.. Nope, none of those. Although crafting always seems to turn into just a big time sink with no rewards at the end in almost every MMORPG. If you think about it, crafting, along with many things I'll be pointing out, seem like great ideas but if you think about it, were they ever implemented in a way that made them great? No Klingon PvE content? C'mon, really! Can you imagine WoW without the Horde? or Star Wars without the Empire or Sith to play? I've been playing a Klingon almost exclusively since I could. Klingons are there they're just in PVP battlegrounds and not ganking you on your missions. So far, the "cloak + more damage + flimsier" vs "no-cloak but sturdier" dynamic between feds and klingons is pretty cool- imagine two opposing sides that are actually different in a perceivable way. That's something new. I like a fluid world where you don't have to "zone" into every place you go.. So to go from Sector 2 to Sector 3 (even tho it's right next door), you have to zone into it? Last time I had to deal with that on a regular bases was EQ1.. It's something I don't like about the game, but it's not a gamebreaker. I ejoyed ffxi and it was zone-heavy. So far, for me at least, the loading screens have only taken a second or two each, so that at least is not that bad. Are there fleet battles? Similar to fantasy game raids, where it's 5, 10 or 20 vs equal numbers npc ships? Yes so far I've been in one. It was an open-pve quest ala Warhammer and it felt quite epic. From what I heard as well, is that the shards? (instances) can only handle approx 50 people.. I guess that means the most PvP action STO is ever going to see is 25 v 25.. Shame.. I enjoy the PvP time doing Wintergrasp, Alteric Valley type bg's in WoW.. In my experience any PVP battle over 50 people (like the concept of ORVR in Warhammer) is just a gang-up gank fest. It seems epic and awesome as an idea but I've never seen it implemented well. I'm not sure what the limit on players for BGs is, but I've already been in many 10vs10s (and that's after only playing a day, btw- you don't have to be max level or 35 like for alteric valley or wintergrasp). Even in PvP, is there a purpose or rewards? If the Klingons win a battle do they get to own a certain sector of space, or vice versa? Nope, nothing like that but again I've never seen that concept actually implemented in a way that was meaningful or fun. Again, seems great but in actual practice, not so much. Sounds like someone missed the boat on a lot of what makes a "MMORPG" fun.. Well it certainly is different which is ironic considering the amount of posts on these forums saying it's the same old thing.
So far my only complaint is in regard to loading screens which I can deal with. Just got done customizing my ship very nice that you can mix and match parts for a little originality in your design. Also like the way they have handled the NPC officers though I can see where this may worry some about group play.
The tutorial missions were both fun and informative, enough to not bore me in any way.
I also like the Space station they set you on after, earth space-dock could be a decent enough social hub if used. Clubs and lounges etc... whether people will take the time to socialize is something I can't guess at.
I can see the solo player references to an extent though I do see quite a few people around me most of the time, reminding me it's an MMO. In the end that's up the end-user whether they will group or not, which is nice IMO.
I haven't gotten to deep into the game yet, but on the surface I like what I see, though I have never been a trek fan. WHich could be changed you never know, I do like the game so far and the theme.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
While in Champs Beta I noticed many elements that could be tweaked into STO and I pointed those assets out to many friends. Well two were in closed and told me I was correct and that many more elements of CO were there. This is no big deal if they fit and are correct but sadly every person I know says what the OP says and many of the critics here. I know many that LOVE the IP and will be happy. i have owned all but one game of this IP and soem are horrid but I still played them. I am unsure at this point if this will be my second missed Trek game...sad to say but if I can't get into Beta there is no way I am spending 50 or more on this game.
So.. From what I'm gathering... There are no tradeskills whatsoever.. No cooking? No engineering? No hobbies or anything to pass the time like other traditional MMO's.. Nope, none of those. Although crafting always seems to turn into just a big time sink with no rewards at the end in almost every MMORPG. If you think about it, crafting, along with many things I'll be pointing out, seem like great ideas but if you think about it, were they ever implemented in a way that made them great? Yes. In several games (Ryzom, early DAOC) all the best items were player made. If what the players make is better than the regular drops, then a good market develops. This becomes a great fun factor, to supply the market and compete with other crafters. From what I heard as well, is that the shards? (instances) can only handle approx 50 people.. I guess that means the most PvP action STO is ever going to see is 25 v 25.. Shame.. I enjoy the PvP time doing Wintergrasp, Alteric Valley type bg's in WoW.. In my experience any PVP battle over 50 people (like the concept of ORVR in Warhammer) is just a gang-up gank fest. It seems epic and awesome as an idea but I've never seen it implemented well. I'm not sure what the limit on players for BGs is, but I've already been in many 10vs10s (and that's after only playing a day, btw- you don't have to be max level or 35 like for alteric valley or wintergrasp). Again, DAOC has epic battles around the keeps. It is really exciting to look out at 200 players all trying to get to you In Ryzom, same thing, large battles over a keep. Even in PvP, is there a purpose or rewards? If the Klingons win a battle do they get to own a certain sector of space, or vice versa? Nope, nothing like that but again I've never seen that concept actually implemented in a way that was meaningful or fun. Again, seems great but in actual practice, not so much. Not sure what games you have played, in DAOC the sides get a boost if they can capture "relics" that live in the keeps. Everyone on that side gets a decent buff based on what relic they capture. In CoH, you can go into a PvP zone and rack up points for your side that gives you, and all on your side, bonuses. In Ryzom, capturing a keep provides extra crafting resources and other bonuses for whoever owns it. Sounds like someone missed the boat on a lot of what makes a "MMORPG" fun.. Well it certainly is different which is ironic considering the amount of posts on these forums saying it's the same old thing.
Traditionally, Cryptic produces shallow, RPG-lite, action oriented games. I really liked CoH, and watched it change a lot over the years. STO will probably change a lot too.
Worst MMO ever released? LMAo I don't know of any game worse than Dark and Light. I find the game fun as do many others, this looks like pure sensationalism of your own opinion. Here I thought you were really trying to discuss things in a respectful manner (after your responses in your thread). Now its blatantly obvious you're stirring the pot, any reason you're doing so outside of boredom?
Mind saying what they destroyed (so we have a clear picture of what you're referring to)?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
About the game being similar to CO, I must say that CO combat feels much less clunky than STO's ground combat from what I've seen so far.
Check my blog on mmorpg.com.
The underlined part is great because I still remember countless times of being killed in SWG because of some idiot in the group using an area attack on pickets.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Best part about this game? It uninstalls really quickly. Was hoping for a Star Trek game (Exploring, Diplomacy, Talking to crew members, walking through my own ship). But I get a glorified space combat game with star trek skins. And not a very good one either. Goodbye Cryptic and good riddance.
Corporation, n: An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
I have a feeling that once the MMO market truly becomes saturated, you'll see more and more companies willing to settle for niche markets like hardcores, rabid roleplayers and pvp gankers without forcing them to suffer any casual content at all. I'm looking forward to that day, so that I can have a casual game with absolutely no hardcore content to ruin my experience.
Yeh! You showed them! GRRRRR! (shakes fist at screen)
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Truly becomes saturated? It's already ridiculous how many there are between the amount of p2p and f2p ones out there.
Think we've already reached that point myself. Which is why within the next year or so you're probably going to see some close their doors or venture into a different marketing scheme like DDO did to try and stay afloat.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So, you'd prefer The Sims Online with a Star Trek skin?
Honestly, when I first visualized a Star Trek MMO, I was of similar mind to you in what I thought that would be like. Crewing a ship that is exploring the galaxy, working at a station or department, trips to Ten-Forward, the holodeck, etc. Then, I thought about it a little bit more - how exactly that would work, and what playing such a game would be like day to day. I now find it hard to believe that such a game wouldn't be the more boring MMO in existance, with only some of the most hardcore "Bravo Fleet" types remaining subscribed. Definitely not a recipe for a commercially successful MMO.
In any event, I see more differences than similarities between STO and CO.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
well its 100% obvious that you havent played champions and sto at all. as the 2 play nothing alike. yes your ground crew can use hyposprays and tricorders to heal, they can also shoot guns and fight in hand to hand. ships fight in styles based on how you arm them weaponry wise and what kind of foe youre fighting. please play the game before you judge it.
[Mod Edit]
this game is a major let down
same structure as WoW and Champions and as everyone knows wow is the superior game
doesn't even feel like a sci fi game
figures cryptic is just milking the name it's a shame
i would have loved a good star trek MMO
But your gonna comment on the thread anyway when the topic is something you have no idea about.
Nice!
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
So.. From what I'm gathering...
There are no tradeskills whatsoever.. No cooking? No engineering? No hobbies or anything to pass the time like other traditional MMO's.. No Klingon PvE content? C'mon, really! Can you imagine WoW without the Horde? or Star Wars without the Empire or Sith to play? I like a fluid world where you don't have to "zone" into every place you go.. So to go from Sector 2 to Sector 3 (even tho it's right next door), you have to zone into it? Last time I had to deal with that on a regular bases was EQ1..Are there fleet battles? Similar to fantasy game raids, where it's 5, 10 or 20 vs equal numbers npc ships? From what I heard as well, is that the shards? (instances) can only handle approx 50 people.. I guess that means the most PvP action STO is ever going to see is 25 v 25.. Shame.. I enjoy the PvP time doing Wintergrasp, Alteric Valley type bg's in WoW.. Even in PvP, is there a purpose or rewards? If the Klingons win a battle do they get to own a certain sector of space, or vice versa?
Sounds like someone missed the boat on a lot of what makes a "MMORPG" fun..
well its 100% obvious that you havent played champions and sto at all. as the 2 play nothing alike. yes your ground crew can use hyposprays and tricorders to heal, they can also shoot guns and fight in hand to hand. ships fight in styles based on how you arm them weaponry wise and what kind of foe youre fighting. please play the game before you judge it.
[Mod Edit]
Beta tester of CO, even had a subcription for a month, so just keep such comments behind your teeth where they belong. By the way, where did I mention CO...?
As for my comment:
Animation work, esthetics, even some artwork, much of the underlying combat dynamics - all taken from CO. And that is really no surprise, because, well, they used the same engine and tool kit.
The point of my post was that instead of piloting a ship, your ship is like a normal MMO avatar. This is actually something that is very very obvious in beta right now, because sometimes your will beam to the surface and appear as space ship, not as humanoid (or vice versa). Makes for a good laugh, the first time around. But after that it's a bit sobering.
I would have preferred are more space-sim-type approach to the ship-aspect of the game. The way it is now it is just too obvious that they picked the path of least resistance, which doesn't earn them my respect (not that they care, by hey ^^). I suppose they will prove me wrong if it turns out that theirimplementation of space combat has a long-lasting appeal, but it looks like something that may get old very fast.
Over the course of the last five years mmo design has turned on its head imo. The evolution of the mmo has been crippled by its own success in effect.
Go back ten years and designers had few pre-concieved notions of what an mmo was - they began with a theme or game concept and approached the project by considering 'how could we make that theme/concept' into a game that is massively multiplayer? In this case the design evolves out of the theme and becomes a game with a largely unique flavlour and style.
Today that approach is reverse, now the deisgn is looked at as "we want an mmo so it has to have x,y,z.... errr now we need some theme or concept to make an excuse for people to play!" with this approach mmo studios design a bunch of generic game modules independently of one another....they bolt them together without any real thought or consideration of why the player might be using them or indeed even if those modules should exist in the intended environment....then far later in the day than is healthy they apply a graphical reskin to the world and regurgitate a bunch of innane text contrived to fit the generic game mechanics their modules permit. The result is an increasing lack of imagination, distinction and variety in these games, they arrive looking suspiciously like other games but with each iteration the connection to the theme, the games soul, is diminished.
The sad cnsequence for gamers is that games of old while infused with a greater sympathy for their designated theme, are constrained by the technical and creative limitations of their time. More modern mmo's are conversely constrained by a lack of consideration of the unifying theme till too late in the day, that and the lazy conciet that all they really need to do is look at WoW. Till we see a courageous studio take a lead the similarity between mmo's even with entirely different theme's will be increasingly evident - a graphical reskin/update but with the same strengths, same weakenesses, same reliance on staple mechanics but even less soul as those mmo's that already exist.
That's what I wanted, but - honestly? I am really enjoying the space combat. It is done very well. Not perfect, and some things could be added, but it is fun for me.
No - no one has commandeered my PC and is posting in my name.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Is it fun enough to play for a year or just fun like WAR for 3 weeks? (I really want to know).
As I see it is the biggest problem most likely that there is no way they can make the Trekkies happy with this game and they are really the ones the game should be for. That is the same mistake Mythic did with the Warhammer IP.
Hopefully can they get MMO fans to play it instead if it is fun enough in the long term but there are millions of Trekkies and it is a shame to make a hasty game that isn't aimed on them.
The first important thing to do when you are making a MMO is figuring out who your potential customer base is and how to make them happy. Cryptic by themselves have a rather small fan base, at least compared to Star trek so in my opinion does it sounds like they should have focused more on the fans.
But that is just based on beta reviews and a few threads here, I am not in the beta and I could be wrong, maybe the game is great for the Trekkies.
QFT
I think most people were expecting a 'Galaxy/Starship Simulator'
Every MMO follows the same recipe
1) Create Toon
2) Go to X
3) Get mission (generic set up of missions)*See Below*
4) Complete Mission
5) Get reward, go to Step 2 and repeat ad infinitum
**Missions**
Mission will vary in accordance to the type of game you ahve, so for Fantasy this will involve going to Location Y killing Z and retunring to Quest Giver.
For Sci-Fi this will involve , travelling to Location Y Killing Z and hailing Questgiver on 'Future tech' to hand in and obtain more gear, for Variety in Sci-Fi though we can make quests Vehicle or Player skinned missions.
HELLO!!!
Was anyone REALLY expecting anything ground breaking? honestly? deep doen in your heart of hearts with everything you have read in teh past 6 months, did you honestly think it would be anything other than this?
The only thing mission from STO is Faction grinding which is the new 'MUST HAVE' for MMO's, maybe they will add it in later, heck they got 'player housing' started, ok its jsut a bridge atm but they can expand on that in future, just like ANY OTHER MMO has been doing since launch, for gawds sake, even WoW *shudder* wasnt as complete as it is now at launch, even EvE was an ugly duckling that has grown.
AS long as the game has enough subs to support it, enough people playing it then it will be enhanced, jsut as long as they dont do an SoE
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
Good post, I agree.
Sadly, no.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Is it fun enough to play for a year or just fun like WAR for 3 weeks? (I really want to know).
for me its gonna be "3 weeks". All Cryptic games are action packed beat-em-ups, thats what they do (even with star trek apparently). I have had fun with it, but playing for a whole year??.....doing what? I can see this being like CoH, a game that people resub to when they feel like kicking some ass.
Both Cryptic and the players would be better off if this game were f2p. Then people wouldnt have to worry about whether this is worthy of their $$$ ( I dont think it is). They could just play the game and have fun.....and occasionaly throw a few bucks Cryptics way.
From what I can see, there looks like to be two camps on what they expected (or wanted) Star Trek Online to be.
A) Something similar to Earth and Beyond (aka wow clone) with the Star Trek theme
So far from what I gather (from comments), it doesn't come close to either of those. I haven't played the beta yet so I cannot comment on what I see. Anyone agree/disagree?
So far my only complaint is in regard to loading screens which I can deal with. Just got done customizing my ship very nice that you can mix and match parts for a little originality in your design. Also like the way they have handled the NPC officers though I can see where this may worry some about group play.
The tutorial missions were both fun and informative, enough to not bore me in any way.
I also like the Space station they set you on after, earth space-dock could be a decent enough social hub if used. Clubs and lounges etc... whether people will take the time to socialize is something I can't guess at.
I can see the solo player references to an extent though I do see quite a few people around me most of the time, reminding me it's an MMO. In the end that's up the end-user whether they will group or not, which is nice IMO.
I haven't gotten to deep into the game yet, but on the surface I like what I see, though I have never been a trek fan. WHich could be changed you never know, I do like the game so far and the theme.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
While in Champs Beta I noticed many elements that could be tweaked into STO and I pointed those assets out to many friends. Well two were in closed and told me I was correct and that many more elements of CO were there. This is no big deal if they fit and are correct but sadly every person I know says what the OP says and many of the critics here. I know many that LOVE the IP and will be happy. i have owned all but one game of this IP and soem are horrid but I still played them. I am unsure at this point if this will be my second missed Trek game...sad to say but if I can't get into Beta there is no way I am spending 50 or more on this game.
Traditionally, Cryptic produces shallow, RPG-lite, action oriented games. I really liked CoH, and watched it change a lot over the years. STO will probably change a lot too.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Worst MMO ever released? LMAo I don't know of any game worse than Dark and Light. I find the game fun as do many others, this looks like pure sensationalism of your own opinion. Here I thought you were really trying to discuss things in a respectful manner (after your responses in your thread). Now its blatantly obvious you're stirring the pot, any reason you're doing so outside of boredom?
Mind saying what they destroyed (so we have a clear picture of what you're referring to)?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson