Go play and FPS game if you want to kill other players. This statement is one that is in almost every PvE vs. PvP debate. At first it angered me, but now I realize that it's just so absurd of an argument that taking it seriously would be doing myself a disservice. It makes zero sense to tell someone to play a game in a different genre. We're playing mmos because we like the MM part of it. We like the combat system, we like the world, we like the community, etc. Why should we go play an FPS game, but you shouldn't leave and go play a non-mmo RPG game?
Hahaha, this part made me smile. I have nothing against PvP, and I enjoy the thrill of PKing.
When everyone has similar gear and is the same level, the only thing left is skill. Knowledge of all the game mechanics/classes/abilities, how quickly you can respond and counter, how well you work with a team, and how quickly you can actually click all those buttons...its all skill. The best challenge is when your opponent has better gear than you and you still win. Maybe you beat him because he sucked? Who knows. But you still won when the odds weren't in your favor.
It's a very small amount of skill compared to the level/gear requirement. A group of trained monkeys on voice chat will probably have an edge over most PUGs, even if there are some good players in there. Mostly, because the "strategy" generally boils down to exploiting the few over-powered skills or classes.
I like PvP. It's more interesting than grinding it out against predicable AI. But, most of the combat systems out there don't require much skill. Put two, equally geared, leveled, and organized groups against each other and it's probably going to come down to the "rolls". There's not much room in there to make things happen. You mash through your skills...and that's about it. Most of the youtube stuff comes from an organized group stomping on a bunch of noobs or PUGs.
A vast majority of MMO players have no vested interest in justice. Why would they? The game developers can come up with silly and generic systems that try to create or encourage justice, but it never works. Where there is no justice, there is simply anarchy. Some players may like that and some might not.
Which is why open rulesets are often abandoned in favor of PvE rulesets. It's simply too much trouble to try to design, organize, and maintain a system that encourages proper gameplay and punishes improper gameplay. It's far easier to simply slap a ruleset of hard restrictions to gameplay options to prevent certain groups of players from taking things too far and using their freedom to what can be best described as oppressing other players.
Essentially, it's the extremist PvPers who have created the necessity for non-PvP rulesets. Most players that play on non-PvP ruleset servers or games are not carebear, or even non-PvPer, they just prefer to avoid the extremist PvP crowd that seems to have a habit of taking things too far.
Totally agree.
Just because a game allows you to attack and kill another person, doesn't mean that is, or should be the focus of that game.
Some people want the freedom of an open world without it being constant warfare, or homicides. Its a shame good games like UO felt forced to include a non pvp option because some people can't handle freedom (refer to homicidal maniacs).
In games like Darkfall I understand this mentality. It is what that game is. A FFA competition between players grinding in that world, i get that, and even embrace such play styles. Its just another kind of game.
What some of us would like is the freedom of FFA PvP and Loot, but in a world that doesn't encourage or support a homicidal maniacs lifestyle. War, Murder, Oppression should be a last option at great cost, not just a FPS Flag that turns your RPG into a Bloodbath.
Self proclaimed Hardcore PvP Players fail to see a difference between the two styles, just cause a game has FFA PvP doesn't automatically make it that games focus.
Both are legit game styles in my opinion.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
Go to Compton, Los Angeles, take a street corner away from the drug dealers and try to hold it. That's hardcore. What you're talking about is mashing buttons.
carebear alert
Self deluded wanna-be tough guy alert.
OP, intersting read. I would offer that the term 'hardcore pvper' is about as humorous and meaningless as 'carebear'. Both have been abused so badly its no longer really funny. I hope you find the vindication you are looking for from your articles.
Comments
Hahaha, this part made me smile. I have nothing against PvP, and I enjoy the thrill of PKing.
It's a very small amount of skill compared to the level/gear requirement. A group of trained monkeys on voice chat will probably have an edge over most PUGs, even if there are some good players in there. Mostly, because the "strategy" generally boils down to exploiting the few over-powered skills or classes.
I like PvP. It's more interesting than grinding it out against predicable AI. But, most of the combat systems out there don't require much skill. Put two, equally geared, leveled, and organized groups against each other and it's probably going to come down to the "rolls". There's not much room in there to make things happen. You mash through your skills...and that's about it. Most of the youtube stuff comes from an organized group stomping on a bunch of noobs or PUGs.
Which is why open rulesets are often abandoned in favor of PvE rulesets. It's simply too much trouble to try to design, organize, and maintain a system that encourages proper gameplay and punishes improper gameplay. It's far easier to simply slap a ruleset of hard restrictions to gameplay options to prevent certain groups of players from taking things too far and using their freedom to what can be best described as oppressing other players.
Essentially, it's the extremist PvPers who have created the necessity for non-PvP rulesets. Most players that play on non-PvP ruleset servers or games are not carebear, or even non-PvPer, they just prefer to avoid the extremist PvP crowd that seems to have a habit of taking things too far.
Totally agree.
Just because a game allows you to attack and kill another person, doesn't mean that is, or should be the focus of that game.
Some people want the freedom of an open world without it being constant warfare, or homicides. Its a shame good games like UO felt forced to include a non pvp option because some people can't handle freedom (refer to homicidal maniacs).
In games like Darkfall I understand this mentality. It is what that game is. A FFA competition between players grinding in that world, i get that, and even embrace such play styles. Its just another kind of game.
What some of us would like is the freedom of FFA PvP and Loot, but in a world that doesn't encourage or support a homicidal maniacs lifestyle. War, Murder, Oppression should be a last option at great cost, not just a FPS Flag that turns your RPG into a Bloodbath.
Self proclaimed Hardcore PvP Players fail to see a difference between the two styles, just cause a game has FFA PvP doesn't automatically make it that games focus.
Both are legit game styles in my opinion.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
carebear alert
Self deluded wanna-be tough guy alert.
OP, intersting read. I would offer that the term 'hardcore pvper' is about as humorous and meaningless as 'carebear'. Both have been abused so badly its no longer really funny. I hope you find the vindication you are looking for from your articles.
edit: Well said, Lexiscat.