Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
So you think you are a true PvPer?
Deewe
Member UncommonPosts: 1,980
In fact there are very very few true PvPers playing MMO. This because the game mechanics does not promote it.
First of all you should not be able to see the health bar of your opponent. At most only a general status like: healthy / wounded / dying.
Then the equipment look of a character should not tell you his class and even less his stats. Just looking at a person should not tell you if you're going to kick his ass or other wise.
Levels (when existing) needs to be hidden. You must not know before hand if you overpower someone or not.
Death for your character should be painful, as much as you want to avoid it by all costs.
When everything is known and easy there is quite few room for surprises and the fun of an encounter is removed.
Comments
Meh, I somewhat agree.
I think there needs to be a death penalty, but nothing too insane. Losing your items is fine, but nothing like losing days of skill gain. That just discourages actual fighting and encourages running and ganking.
The Official God FAQ
Play Darkfall and you have what you search.
Your skills are hidden. No one can see what skills you leveled.
No equipment witch tells you something about the player before you
Death is painfull. You loose all your equipment what you wear and stuff in you bag to your opponent.
Its a pity that most people dont know how great darkfall for pvper is.
It's a little known fact that I - and only I - know the correct definition of a true PVPer.
True story.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
hmm, true pvp, thats always a bit vague as many games claim to have it... personally i dont really like games with levels all that much, they get in the way of what i consider to be true pvp, as for not being able to see your opponents health.. .. well, why not? why shouldnt there be visible indications of your oponents current condition, at the same time, one thing i do disagree with, is artificial balancing, and no loss of equipment. If your fighting and you lose, then the winner, should be able to take whatever is left on the body etc. pvp without risk is pointless imo.. and where there is no risk, there is generally very little excitement..
I don't think I'm a real pvper then lol - if I lost hard earned items due to dying once in pvp. I'd hella /ragequit! I can't imagine how frustrating that'd be. I played UO years and years ago, and that was brutal. I much prefer battleground "carebare" pvp - where pvp is more relaxing than anything. Die? np, respawn in 10 seconds and go at it again!
Personally I don't play to be stressed out, I play to relax and have a good time.
I'm not saying what you enjoy from pvp is wrong, I just don't ever see myself being interested in it.
Also things like heavy death penalties from PvP, not seeing their level, ability to hide gear etc. - well look at Aion. This game was heralded as the next big thing, it was gorgeous, fluid - amazing looking game. But at the end of the day, no on pvp's seriously. They grind mobs and run at the slightest chance of dying. Losing AP means wasted time and therefore the higher ranked people only fight unless they know they are going to win.
Yes, thats a strategy - I know. IRL a strategist would never go into a fight they most likely won't win - but for me, diving in and going out in a blaze of glory, or losing to an opponent learning from my mistakes and jumping right back in to take another crack at it is the most fun.
A lot of this discussion is BS.
The lack of full drop in games like AoC and FoM allows you to get back to the fight immediately after death. Because of that, I was able to fight the war in FoM around New Years for about 16 hours straight without having to back out because I had no gear left (just no money for ammo at some point). I guess fighting somebody once, losing, then ducking out all day to recoup is more hardcore than PvPing for a looooong period of time in-general. *roll eyes*
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Do you find a lot of people playing naked or with just basic equipment a lot? I would think losing all of your equipment upon death would promote this kind of play, especially if you know you'll be in a lot of zerg pvp.
Do you find a lot of people playing naked or with just basic equipment a lot? I would think losing all of your equipment upon death would promote this kind of play, especially if you know you'll be in a lot of zerg pvp.
You very rarely see people fighting naked. Equipment comes easy enough that a smart player will have many replacement sets in his bank. It puts you at a severe disadvantage to play naked anyway.
But yes, Darkfall is the game you seek OP. It is every bit as hardcore as what you describe to be true PvP.
Its just not hardcore enough unless there are mechanics in the game that make you stop PvPing. Isn't that what PvP is all about? The penalties that make you do something else besides actually fighting people=)
The NFL should make people play without pads, so only the real athletes will play. The losing team gets their legs broken so they can't play for around 6 months. That'll teach them to play better right? Only TRUE athletes will play then. Thats what the NFL needs...less playing and more sitting around and recouperating. It would make the game much much better=)
Theres no true PvPers. Theres just people who don't need penalties to have fun and those that have a lot of time on their hands and feel the game needs to stop them from playing to give their life purpose.
I disagree Josher. True PvPers will fight regardless of the penalties. In fact, we enjoy the potential of losing things because it makes the fight actually exciting. Fighting when you have something to lose actually makes the adrenaline flow...
Where is the thrill in fighting other players when you have absolutely nothing to lose or gain other than nearly meaningless honor points or other equally trivial rewards? I personally play games to have fun and I don't have as much fun doing anything in MMOs as I do fighting real opponents for real risk/reward.
PvP =/= Hardcore
- Shijeer
PvP in the majority of MMOs is rubbish - it's riskless and worthless. If you instituted a harsh death penalty, allowed looting of the defeated and allowed equipment damage, 99% of so-called PvP would dry up overnight.
Gear in full loot games is nothing like gear in more traditional games.
In a (good) game with full loot gear is a commodity, not something you spend countless hours trying to obtain. You come into battle with what you're willing to risk and what's best for that particular situation.
Yes, knowing you lose a lot of time if you lose makes it more exciting. It might not be "good" excitement though. Most people still have fun and can get excited about a game without the potential loss of time. Its the reason some games have millions playing and others don't. Everyone has their own definition of fun in a videogame and its ussually related to their real life responsibilities.
Time is far more valuable for some people, which makes games that have penalties related to time loss not a fun experience. Most people value their time. Others don't. Fun is subjective.
It's even more of a pity they won't do a free trial for those who are PKcurious. I loved Shadobane (when it functioned) and my first MMORPG was UO, and would like to see if Darkfall would fit the bill for something I'd like to play. But I'm a rather picky gamer nowadays, and after getting burned by Hellgate: London and Tabula Rasa at the same time, I don't buy until I try. *shrugs* Sucks for me, but happy for those who enjoy the game.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
I would agree with the "carebear" pvp crowd. I think harsh death penalties are counter-productive. I would love to lose days worth of gear and play time because I died to lag, latency, being ganked or even just beaten fair and square. I hate losing, dying is enough of a penalty for me and winning is enough of a rush.
Skaroth
See the violence inherent in the system!
I agree, loosing Xp or equipment isn't seen kindly even by hardcore PvPers. Having to spend minutes++ just running back to get a corpse isn't even better.
What I would introduce in terms of PvP, is once you are dead your character is locked out from PvP for lets say 15 minutes.
You can still PvE but you can't jump back into the fight as if nothing happened with the same character.
So it's a sort of time sink but you can switch to others characters or go on doing some PvE, crafting, socialization...
This would add depth to PvP, players would be more careful and tactics would start emerging.