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no XP for monsters at all?
nephillim
Member Posts: 291
i don't see how this could work. i mean.... if all the xp is coming from quests and only quests... then there's gonna have to be a shitload of quests.
i hope this game doesn't pick the 'static' quests option where the same quests can be completed 1000 times by different players. to me this is the worst thing about MMOs today.
D+D Online... the name says it all. it has the potential to be amazing. or, it could just end up being a cookie cutter EQ clone with the D+D brand slapped on it.
[we need a worldwide genocide/ a planetary suicide/ and when the whole damned world is dead/ there''s your f***ing peace]
Comments
I agree. I hate static quests, since they usually get spoiled quickly. However, dynamic quests take work to develope and sometimes with HUGE communities it gets hard to do (since high levels quickly finish the quests).
I'm thinking DnD will have a combination of both static and dynamic quests and I think that is probably the best combination.
As for no XP in monsters.... is that confirmed? 'Cause I think that would suck.
Where did you hear them say this? Was it on their website, an interview, or a magazine? I just never heard anything about no exp from monsters yet but I could have just missed it. It would be kind of strange if they did though. I guess a large number of enjoyable quests (hopefully dynamic ones) would make up for it.
Currently:
Playing: WOW & GW
Tacklebury --}>>>
Well it all depends on how they implement it. If they can get it where the dungeons and quests aren't the same repetitive task over and over again it would be a welcome change to the repetitive killing of identical mobs. Problem with dungeons though is that they can get pretty repetitive if they all look the same and contain many of the same creatures. It will be interesting to see how it turns out and I wish them luck.
Currently:
Playing: WOW & GW
i think instancing and static quests will be the death of this game.
cool combat system or no
[we need a worldwide genocide/ a planetary suicide/ and when the whole damned world is dead/ there''s your f***ing peace]
Tacklebury --}>>>
I would have to agree with the last two posters. While it might seem strange not awarding any XP for monsters (at least immediately anyway), it makes the progression element fit better with pnp D&D.
If you think about it, you don't 'grind' when you play D&D anyway, so it would make sense to not have that in DDO as well. Not being able to kill monsters over and over again also will cut back on extremely fast level progression, since DDO will follow the core D&D rules and only have 20 levels to start.
Oh, and in response to Tacklebury's comment of 1xp per 1gp gained; I know that was in place for AD&D second edition and earlier, but I'm not sure if that made the tranisiton to 3.0 or 3.5. I may be wrong, though--it's been a while since I looked at my books
Tacklebury --}>>>
Tacklebury:
Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat
Most of my experience is in AD&D 2E; I bought all the 3E books when they first came out, but haven't read them / done much playtesting at all
Well, I agree that static quests are bad.
But instancing is a good thing. Nothing is more of a mood breaker than going on a quest and having to wait in line at the monster camp for your turn to complete the quest a la EQ.
I imagine there will be a lot of instanced quests such as CoH missions, where you get a set of level appropriate monsters semi-randomly distributed in a instanced dungeon with a semi-random floor plan.
For example, at lvl 5 an NPC at the local temple will assign you a quest to clean undead out of a tomb. Over the course of lvls 5-10 you'll likely receive several quests of low lvl undead in a tomb. But the exact monster distribution and floorplan will never be the same, though you'll fight a LOT of low lvl undead in tombs and be sick of low lvl undead and tombs by the time you reach lvl 10 and that NPC starts giving you quests of higher lvl undead in crypts (which look slightly different than tombs). All the quests will be loosely connected in a story arc that would culminate in a epic battle vs a liche at some high lvl. A different NPC would likely specialize in giving quests vs humanoid in caves, so you can have some variety if you're sick of undead.
At least thats how its set up in CoH and it would be easily adapted to D&D Online.
but you fail to realise that if there were no static quests then there would be no need for instancing.
instancing is only neccesary when several players can all do the same quest, which results in a dozen players camping a spawn.
think about it. if a quest can be done once and only once, then there will be no camping. however, that won't stop several people all trying to do the quest at once.
but to me that would be great for D+D. you would hear tales from the quest-giver about so-and-so the elf who failed and has never been seen again!!!
[we need a worldwide genocide/ a planetary suicide/ and when the whole damned world is dead/ there''s your f***ing peace]
What definition are you using for instancing?
Instancing is where a small area is created that only you and your group can enter. How can you dislike that? Without instancing there will be incidents where other people steal your kills or otherwise grief you. For example you may have a quest to collect goblin skulls, but when you find some goblins another player with a quest to collect goblin teeth or just out testing his new fireball spell swoops in and kills all the goblins delaying your quest. That sort of thing is avoided with instancing.
Its not practical to provide absolutely unique quests that once accepted by a single person can never be done by anybody again. To do that you would need a random quest generator that provided lousy random quests or multiple quest programmers per player which is not possible.
No, the logical path is to provide quests that can be done by each player once and that spawn an instanced dungeon so that if different players happen to run the quest at the same time they won't be competing for resources.
i really hate instancing, i'm sorry( well, not really)
i always thought the whole point of an MMO is that it's MASSIVELY multiplayer. not *a bit* multiplayer, but MASSIVELY. i really worry about people who are willing to pay £10 a month for a game, and then just play on their own or just with a few people.
the whole point is that it's a virtual world, where you can meet and become friends (or enemies) with anyone. if i'm in a dungeon, i want to be able to see other players. it's just so artificial and seriously takes away from the roleplaying (which is NOT good for D+D). imagine this:
Bob: Hey, Bill, where's Fred. I thought he was meeting us in this dungeon.
Bill: Oh, he's here. You just can't see him because he's in his own private version of the dungeon.
Bob: Lucky sod.
sure, you can invite Fred into your copy of the dungeon, but thats exactly my point.
i mean... what's the point of an MMO which takes the focus away from the MM part????
and also, statics quests. they're the bane of my life. Just say you've finished a quest. took you the best part of a week to finish, and you've gotten a cool named item, say Jeremiah's Toffee Hammer.
'Cool!' you think you yourself. then when you get into town you see that 100 other people have done the same quest, and have all got their own freaken copy of Jeremiah's sodding Toffee Hammer.
oh. let's all pay £10 a month for a game which mightaswell be single-player, or on a 4-player console.
mugs
[we need a worldwide genocide/ a planetary suicide/ and when the whole damned world is dead/ there''s your f***ing peace]
Okay you all need to read more on the DDO site www.ddo.com
1. This is a massive player MMORPg
2. Turbine is trying to keep the feeling as close as possible to the PnP system with only minor changes.
3. There are different types Parties that have a wide range of concepts.
4. But the one think that is if you do not have a party there are solo adventures for people who do not have a party or just want to solo.
I believe that DDO will be a new ages of Roleplaying (Hint,Hint) this game I believe is developed for the Roleplayer in General, and I like it that way. I do not know why this game is scored so low on this site. I believe it should Surpass WOW or any of the other games that are presently out there. I do understand that people are skeptics, but there are always critics out there to bash away at something entirely new.
i love roleplaying. i mean, Wish was awesome. i was so angry when the game got cancelled, because it was the only original game to come out of the MMO industry.
If any of you played Wish in Beta you will know what i mean
the only thing keeping me interested in D+D online is, obviously, the brand name, and the real time combat system.
but honestly.... how can you roleplay in a game with static, infinitley repeatable quests, and dungeons where every player who chooses can have their own private copy of the dungeon.
that's not roleplaying.
thats like the waiting room for an online FPS where you enter a game room.
before anyone suggests it, i'm not here to bash the game. i'm just disappointed.
sure, go with the tried and tested EQ formula, which keeps the mugs happy. but any gamer who wants a seriously in depth roleplaying game should steer clear from these EQ clones.
even if this one does have the oh most holy D+D brand slapped on
[we need a worldwide genocide/ a planetary suicide/ and when the whole damned world is dead/ there''s your f***ing peace]
I see your point Nephillim. Turbine has a very heavy load and a lot to show when it uses such a Big roleplaing name like D&D. I myself am a hardcore D&D fanatic, but I believe that Turbine can get the job done and hopefully prove to all of us and give us the feeling of Awe when we first log into the game.
Nephilim, I totally see where you are coming from here, and understand completely. I come from a hardcore PnP background, and would love it if MMOs were able to create a more 'real' experience than is currently out there.
HOWEVER, it just can't happen right now. Sure, static repeatable quests suck, and instancing (while not altogether bad) has it's problems, having original, one-time-and-they're-done quests is just too much to ask out of a development team. In an MMO, where players chew through content at unbelievable speeds, they just would not be able to keep up with the demand for more.
Yes, instancing does seem to take away 'the point' of MMO's, but I also think that it is also a step forward in adding a little extra immersion to a quest instead of having 15-20 players all standing in the same area, waiting for the boss mob to spawn again.
Just my thoughts on the matter--game on.
Okay I have been doing some research and this is what I have come up with. There is going to be XP for killing random monsters, but not as much or very little exp. will be given. Put it this way it will take you a very long time to lvl if you wanted to do the EQ GRIND on random spawns or monsters.
This leads to doing more quests, and this does not mean the quests are going to be the same. There are going to be quests for every lvl...and there are going to be lots of quests all over the place. Solo players and parties will have plenty to do when it comes to gaining exp and lvling, but the thing is there should be more "Roleplaying" than anything else.
PNP Example:
We all get together each weekend to Roleplay D&D. Before you know it the night has turned into morning due to the fact that we are just roleplaying our character. Basically giving our characters life. Until we noticed that we have not gained any experience or the quest we were suppost to do that night took a side step for another night. Well put it this way we did not complete the quest for about 2 weeks just because we were "Roleplaying"
It took us 3 game sessions to finally complete a quest. I know it will not take this long in DDO but I believe I want to take the same feeling as PNP into DDO. Again this is just my opinion.
Hey Alkanphel, not trying to rain on the parade or anything here (honestly), but I don't think you should get your hopes up regarding how much RPing there will be going on in DDO.
Roleplaying isn't really something that can really be 'put in' by the developers--it's pretty much all up to the players themselves. Now if you have a group of players all ready and raring to go, that's cool too, but I wouldn't be surprised if you will be in the distinct minority RP wise. In my opinion, it's hard to try and roleplay when 95% of the other players around you don't give a hoot one way or another.
Don't get me wrong--I'm sure as hell going to play this game, because it's D&D, dangit! But still, I'm not getting my hopes up by thinking that it will be a reasonable recreation of the PnP experience for me.
Then again, I'm just bitter this morning.
no xp for monster kills?? what kinda' game is this now?
doesn't sounds like D&D to me at all.... this calls for a huge major suckage gage!
If xp is only going to be given for completion of quests and not for creature destruction then why even make the game. PnP D&D has always been about killing creatures to further the goals set forth at the start of the campaign. You may accomplish many subquests on the path of the fulfillment of the overall goal, but those quests involved slaying monsters. A rangers main ability is his/her skill against specific monsters, what good is this ability if it does not help them advance to greater power and even greater enemies?
Just my 2cp worth....
I guess we shall see when it comes out
Thought I might introduce a little reality into this discussion... Awarding exp at the end of a dungeon sounds great... but this isn't pen and paper this is an online game.
pray tell, what happens when you go link dead halfway though?
I think the MAIN reason they have it set up this way is to prevent monster grinding. True, D&D is about going through an exciting adventure, and besting foes in the process (and getting XP for it), but in pnp does a DM really let you spend your time mindlessly hacking away at the same foes over and over again just so you can get XP? Furthermore, does the DM magically make these foes reappear over and over again for the same reason? Nope.
Just because this game is an MMO doesn't mean that it has to abide by the tired conventions all games of this genre have used to date. I think another reason they have made the experience 'adventure oriented' is to slow down level progression a bit. After all, the game only has 20 character levels right now...
In the end, does it really matter where the XP comes from? You're still getting it, no?