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Is "Mourning" the real "scam" I put DnL as an example in my scam scenario question??
Zaxx99
Member Posts: 1,761
Mourning.
Great promises and very attractive features and screenshots. No real movies of value.
Release date estimated at 2/25/05. That's barely two weeks away.
They have been taking pre-orders for a long time now at a 40% discount for $29.95
Like I mentioned in my "rip-off" scam of a promising mmo using DnL as an example... here we have a case of an overseas (Romania I think) game that is taking pre-orders long before release. Noone at any Electronic Botique store or Best Buy has ever even heard of this game nor do they have it in their system.
I would be VERY leary of pre-ordering this game, even though it looks like a great game with a lot of the challenging gameplay I seek.
Well still no official word on release date or how it will be aquired (download, box or what) two weeks before the promised release date. This release date is not just on this website, but on the official Mourning website... 2/25/05.
Another big thing that would scare me away is the fact that the two unofficial Mourning links listed on this wesbite under Mourning links are not accessible. Clicking either one now gives a fatal error or "website not found" error. Yikes!
Sooooo, I am starting to wonder now if my theory of a big promising mmo game that is actually an overseas ripoff question wasn't such a stupid question afterall. I wonder how many people have pre-paid the $29.95 for this game. And even if the game is downloaded and released and is bug-infested and non-playable for say 3 days before they can it. Or even a month of pretty un-playable gameware... the $29.95 times the number of orders would still in my terms be a complete rip-off. If they released and sent out a download of a completely crappy and/or unplayable game... I highly doubt that people would get their money back from debit cards and most credit cards. Maybe... but it would be a pain in the arse. The scam game-maker would likely keep a huge percentage of all the money collected.
Sorry to be posting about this again... but if a game scam like I mention is an earthquake, then Mourning is starting to send out pre-earthquake tremmors. I would also highly discourage anyone from pre-paying them $29.95 before a real game or much more info is released from their very own website. Surely someone agrees with me here.
- Zaxtor
Comments
if you look on there web site most places do not charge till the product is shipped
Have some advice for you, if you feel you got burned in your recent mmorpg experaincs,
rather it be shadowbane, horizons or whatever else didn't meet your expectations, might i suggest you wait till there is a free trial? That way whatever the game happens to be, has some release time under there belt and many of the newly released issues are some what smoothed out and enough patches are in to fix whatever problems were faced at launch.
There are alot of players that do not need the "new game smell" and will gladly wait a few months to see how the game is doing, that might be something you might consider......
I've been watching Mourning for awhile, and I can't place any credence in the scam theory. Years of making screen mock-ups, having pretend dev chats, maintaining a collection of forums and having pretend testers post, is just too large of a conspiracy theory for me to swallow.
However, the release date only 2 weeks away does look like a fantasy. And the secrecy games and disorganization demonstrated by the company in the run-up has been very unsettling. More like the antics of a bunch of giggling teenagers than of a professional development staff. They would have noone to blame but themselves if a conspiracy theory did take root. (further evidence against a scam is that I'd expect scammers to be far more organized)
Their ideas and promises have always been really compelling, and so I'm still watching and hoping. (I have my pre-order in; I'm willing to bet $30 on the chance) But my current sense is that those of us that have been waiting for Mourning are in for a whopper of a disappointment.
I wonder if it's because they changed their name. It wasn't always "Mourning". I believe (could be wrong) the name of the game was originally Realms of Torment or something. Maybe it's still in EB Games or BB under that name. Most of these companies deal with the UPC number once it's been added to the system, so it's possible the name was never updated in their systems?
Doesn't mean much but here's something for your conspiracy to chew on;
Press Release/Info
who is realmsofkrel.com
Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
15111 N Hayden Rd., Suite 160
PMB353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: REALMSOFKREL.COM
Created on: 09-Feb-04
Expires on: 09-Feb-07
Last Updated on: 10-Feb-04
Administrative Contact:
Private, Registration REALMSOFKREL.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
15111 N Hayden Rd., Suite 160
PMB353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax --
Technical Contact:
Private, Registration REALMSOFKREL.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
15111 N Hayden Rd., Suite 160
PMB353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax --
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.ISPEDIA.COM
NS2.ISPEDIA.COM
The previous information has been obtained either directly from the registrant or a registrar of the domain name other than Network Solutions. Network Solutions, therefore, does not guarantee its accuracy or completeness.
----------------------------------------
My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
Zaxtor - you are without doubt a total pen#s.
First one of your friends (RPGPorkster) posts the ridiculous "Morning is a scam" post in the Mourning forum on this site. Then you did the same for DnL.
Now you post the "scam" theory in relation to Mourning!! Its obvious from the multiple replies the previous posts got that there is NO scam.
You obviously have a hidden agenda in rubbishing these two games. Now that ppl realise this you should stop these posts before complaints about your behaviour reach the admins.
Stav1.... Thanks for the personal attacks.
If you can't see why I am strongly advising people to not pre-pay the $30 for "Mourning" then so be it. People are free to make their own decisions.
I want to play Mourning as much as anyone here I think. I have many previous posts over the past several months stating how I think the game will rock. So I have no interest in hurting it. But when it is only 2 weeks until the launch date they have posted on their own website and still no details and the two links below the official website link give a error or a "website not found" page.. then that does seem to cause a little concern for me.
In the previous thread I stated simply a "situational question" where I used DnL as an example based on its high interest level. Many people posted that you were basically a jerk there to continue to insult me and say idiotic things like "Where's your proof?" when it was explained right from the start and many times after it was simpy a "What If" question.
So maybe I am a penis to make people stop and think before they pre-order all these games that no big US games merchants have ever even heard of. Maybe so. But atleast with games like EQ2, WoW, and even Saga Of Ryzom merchants like "Electronics Botique, Software Etc, and Best Buy" had them in their systems for many months or even years before release. With a game like "Mourning" not even PC games specialty shops have even heard of the game to be released in 2 weeks, much less have them in their system. 2 of the 3 website links for the game on this website produce nothing but errors with no website found.
So yes, maybe I am a penis to try and make people stop and think before just sending an unknown company their hard earned money before the game even releases or before they have played it. But my question to you is what will YOU be if in fact a game such a Mourning turns out to be nothing but a scam, or huge disappointment? What If I'm wrong? Fine I'm a huge jerk for asking the question just to try and make people think that there are rip-off artists out there. But if you are wrong, hmmmmm...
- Zaxtor
Most MMOG's seem to push back their release dates, so it wouldn't surprise me if Mourning delayed theirs also. I'd rather they did that than try to release a flawed product.
As far as preordering an unfinished product goes, can you say STUPID.
To save $10 or so is not worth it. A lot of things can happen between now and then.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
it could very well be a scam, though I doubt such dedication to a game for that purpose is highly unlikel.
many of these new mmorpgs are not official and are not even going to be rated by ESRB
this usually means that it is an independant company. these are usually developed by chinese and korean game developers or other non-mainstream game makers.
so don't expect MU Online or KAL Online or some other asian mmorpg to show up in your favorite gaimg magazine or retailer anytime soon.
gunbound for example was not in any official store or anything (possibly because its free at this point).
so yeah, thats the story.
Proud R.P.Gamer and Star Wars Fanatic
Hypotheticals like this are eminently disastrous to your own reputation, and they sully the reputation of others. You really need to stop making these wild accusations unless you have valid proof of fraud, otherwise you are bordering libel and making yourself look like a fool.
This scam nonsense has gone far enough.
I am a Mourning beta tester. I have played the game and seen it with my own two eyes. Do I have doubts about the Feb 25 release? Yes, I do, though the devs continue to say it is on track. Anyone who continues to propagate these ridiculous rumors should be absolutely ashamed of themselves... and their libelous attacks on a legitimate company made of genuinely good people who take pride in their work as well.
You can make up all the excuses you want, but creating a massive-scale game over a period of several years just to rip off a handful of credit card holders would be a ridiculous way to try and make money. Besides that, they would never get away with it. The tracks of this company are a mile wide all over the internet, including personal names and company addresses. Your theories, sir, are completely invalid, and if you claim to support Mourning in any way, you're lying to yourself.
A big
to all the liars and Chicken Littles out there...
http://www.krelslibrary.org
THE SOURCE for the truth about Mourning
@Zaxtor99
do you have any proof for your proposition that Mourning is a scam? Like others said you can hurt badly the reputation of someone even if he has done nothing with such nonsense.
And another point. If the homepage says release will be for example 33th, so why are you so upset about, that there is no other post, that the release will be on that day? Why should the devs tell everybody everyday, yes we will release this game on this date. If you have a date, good what want you more ??????
_____________________________
Three can hide a secret as long two of them are dead.
-= Benjamin Franklin =-
Channel Manager www.gamesdynamite.de
Okay skull, thanks for your input.
However, a game that asks for pre-orders and then doesnt provide any information on their own website just before release is very ummmmm well "Scam" isn't the right word here. It is very hmmmmmmm UN-PROFESSIONAL. Let's put it that way. And two links that are ummm Mourning supporting websites are down. Your tiamat admin guy over there trying to give the current news and state of the game made a post on your website that sounds as if it was written by a 2nd grader. Read it for crying out loud! Ugh. Here's the link to this great admins post to the whole Mourining public:
http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=136f1ae1de4df6e5da6c6cb332186316&threadid=16993
In case you don't want to read this whole spill by him in his post just the other day... here is a small sample of it word for word.. and this mind you is coming from Mourning's Lead Designer, Community Manager and Public Relations Manager, tiamat:
" On a second note, I want to ask all of you a question.. what did we did to get ourselves marked as unresponsive, lacking feedback and so on?!! when did you wanted to talk with us, and we ignored you?!! when some of you saw any of us online and alive, tried to talk with us and we didn't responded?!!"
Ugh. Okay look, I understand that an mmo takes a long ass time to produce and put together. That's understandable. And when I say "scam" I don't actually mean I think they are doing all that they've done to try and make a million bucks and give nothing in return. But look at it this way, from the common consumers point of view... If I wait on a new product promised on a certain date, and get it and say it doesnt work worth a damn and crashes and has only some or none of the features or elements promised... whether it be a new Sears Craftsman powertool or whether it be a new mmorpg, then I as the consumer am gonna feel "scammed". Also if I pre-pay for this thing, and then get news that it won't be on the shelves on the promised date and instead it will be 6 months, 9 months, or maybe a year later... I might also feel "scammed". I also understand that "big news" is coming on the Mourning website soon... but uhhh this "big news" has been being promised for many weeks now. Still nothing. Just a few more days they keep saying over and over and over and over... Meanwhile the expected release date is closing in very quickly. Don't they understand that the longer the wait and the closer they get to the release date, the worse the consumers are gonna take some news like "Hey it's not done yet, but for the good of the game we need to make sure it's finished without flaws" ??
Just my take on what I see. Don't take my obviously understandable concerns here personally. I know you love the game you hold so tight. But perhaps if you could let go just a little you might see my rational. Or madness as some of you call it. Whatever. All I see is a game not ready for release anytime soon and still asking for money to be pre-paid and admins that put out posts that look like a 2nd grader posted them. Not good. Not good at all the way I see it. Sorry.
I honestly and sincerely do wish the best for Mourning. I hope that it succeeds, but its gonna take a lot more, I mean a hella lot more then what I see now to do that. I'm not the only one concerned here that has been following the games progress trust me on that. Peace....
- Zaxtor
I was under the impression that the dev's of Mourning were from Romania? That would mean that, get this, it's hard to figure out.. perhaps they are not fluent in english.
Oh, and that whois query.. all it means is that they chose to make their registration details private. It's an option most registrars offer for an additional price, big deal.
Okay, that's great. So this is coming from a public spokesperson for the company on an english website... So what am I, the consumer supposed to gather from this? ...Perhaps if I buy the game and I walk up to an NPC I might get an NPC saying something to the effect of "Hallo. My name is Guish Juyid. If you wanted to buyish something forget please just click no that gold and an item and things will be grand!" If they can't get this correct, how am I, the common consumer supposed to think that they care enough about it to not scramble the game coding and details as much as they do their English conversion? Shouldn't they care enough to perhaps have a translator? Do they really expect to compete in the very competitive mmo market with this kind of public interaction? And this is just how he talked. Fine. He's Romanian and cannot speak Enlish well. Great. Super. What about the details of the games release already? Why take prepays when the game is obviously much farther away from being complete then they promise on the pre-pay page? Why are there no real in-game movies or new screenshots so close to release? Why the secrecy? I suppose all of these questions are just 'cuz I'm a jerk and he's a Romanian too right? Whatever.
- Zaxtor
He isn't a spokesperson, he's a lead designer. It isn't his job to speak English well.
As for the ingame NPC speech, they have other people doing it. It's certainly better than, say, Lineage 2 was at launch in terms of translation. Flaming people on their english skills in the "borderless" world of the internet is pretty damn stupid (aside from people who are just ignorant and use netspeak for everything)
Really, if you knew a damn thing about Mourning you would almost cetainly know the situation with the developers already.
As for your further extrapolation of one man's admittedly substandard mastery of english, suggesting that the game code would reflect this with errors and bugs... I can see you're grasping at straws. What in the world would English skills have to do with the code?
As for public interaction, it's always been positive until the recent idiocy coming from such various sources as the SA goons, various forum communities from "other" games, and Chicken Little herself. Tiamat/Adonys has always been a great person to talk to on IRC or yahoo and other devs make themselves available for chatting too.
As for new screens, many can be found on the IGN weekly peeks and at www.mourning.de, which is updated far more often than the english website. I can't honestly say I know why that is, when the devs are more active on the english forums.
Basically you have gone from "omg Mourning is a scam" to "oh wait, Mourning just sucks". Neither is true, and you seem to obviously know nothing about what's going on over there. So you want to hear my input?
Keep your mouth shut about things you don't know.
http://www.krelslibrary.org
THE SOURCE for the truth about Mourning
Ive been following this for quite some time now but never felt the need to reply any of this but this battle thats going on here and on the mourning forums is something that you can only laugh about. Oh, and cause i know the elitist attitude of some people let me put something straight first: Ive been following the development of Mourning since day one but never felt the need to post anything on theirs or this forum here.
Anyway, i dont think Mourning is a scam. I think that the idea of the game is great. The feature list sure is impressing and i think nobody would have a problem with the game not beeing released on the 25th of February if the devs needed more time. I am aware that the devs native language isnt english, neithter is mine as you might be able to tell already, but i honestly think its not about their lack of vocabulary. Its the way they treat people, the community and the testers. I just think they arent honest about the state the game is in. I mean, look at the screens, look at the lack of updates, look at the state the beta actually is in (yes i know about this). In no way i can see this game beeing released anytime soon. Its not a matter of different oppinions its just a matter of common sense. Even the biggest developer fanboi will have to admit that this is a fact. Oh and btw: Whats with this uberannouncement that was supposed to be posted at monday? (the message was later edited to say "early next week"). Its supposed to be something revolutionary... really looking forward to it.
Dont get me wrong, i like the idea behind this game. I am certainly going to play it if it comes out with the promised features - if it ever will...
Wow, all I can say is Wow lol
I guess 8 years ago that little Turbine company and their game Asherons Call could have applied here then as well
Nice to see the smaller gamers come out and attempt to make something of themselves. Hell even with MS backing it, it was extremely quiet LOL
However, interesting to also note that there wasn't really much information on that game until the servers basically opened also abit over 6 years ago.
I don't remember scam theories during that time, though lol but it was also "hush hush"
Keep your theories Zax
the expression is, good publicity or bad, they will still go and see for themselves.
One player's great game is another players derisive snort!
http://www.darthmyr.com for free guild forums
It seems obvious that zaxtor99 has something against Mourning personally. First, he uses false words like pre-pay. Secondly, what are you to tell people whats professionalism and whats not? Everyone needs to make their own conclusions. I think you're just trying to manipulate people to believe something bad about Mourning. Almost everything you have questioned has been answered properly.
---------------
MMORPG genre=trend=lots of subscriptions/bad games
Hi everybody.
Can we please stop all this. I think this is what he wants, that we take all that personally and attack eachother.
This Thread will now be monotorised and we don´t want our community members to flame someone or use bad language. So if someone of our members offend our community rules, this can cause a temp ban. We are an open community and I think a very good community and we don´t want to flame others, even if they something we don´t like.
I was authorized by Dan Antonescu the Lead Designer of Mourning.
So please ignore this thread, because this will lead to nothing except offend each other.
Thanks for reading
_____________________________
Three can hide a secret as long two of them are dead.
-= Benjamin Franklin =-
Channel Manager www.gamesdynamite.de
Umm... you were authorized to do what exactly? There must be a reason people start to discuss this manners outside the mourning forum, no? I dont need to type anything else cause someone just summed it all up at the mourning forums:
http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=8157bda1036511e335367cf7008f4e25&threadid=17088
- Lady Pashta
Im not worried about a possible scam at all. Im worried about the quality of the product and missing features. As long as nobody is able to preview anything im not going to preorder.
Good points, BUT, there was hardly the forum communities and pre game support that most games use now as a means of advertisement and drumming up pre game sales. If you put your foot in the water, you better get the rest of the way in with something like this and not decide to take it all back and NOT continue to publicate information after you have drawn a fan base and put the marketting tools out, such as official forums, public beta tests, and so on. If they cut a release date and that date is nearing and they aren't making any statements on it then I would say there is an issue. Not a scam issue, just a horrible lack of professionality issue. But after reading the lead designers post in regard to this issue, I have to say, the company does lack professionalism.
A scam, sounds highly improbable to me, however, it does look to me like a company with some problems they haven't worked out or don't know the answer too. Perhaps there are internal problems that are causing question on wether the game is going to happen or not. Hard to say, honestly, unless its made by about 1 of 3 companies anymore, as far as I am concerned its vaporware til it makes it to the shelves. To many companies tried to cash in on the idea of being able to pull down a monthly fee when UO and EQ made it big and they saw the success it had.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
No doubt Fadeus, they would be better served to invest in a PR person. However, that appears to not be the case, as the developers/official team seems to be all things at one time.
Not possible, but they are attempting it.
And you are right, times have changed since 8 years ago and this is a very competitive market.
Scam theory, I scoff at it. Small company attempting to make a name for themselves with what appears to be a very good one, if they pull it off?
Recommendation, they need to step back, get a Community Liason person and let the lead developer and team go back to being just that.
Unfortunately, an image they are projecting isn't a very good one. The community itself seems very devout to this game. Those outside looking in for the first time, it is not appealing. Any small start up company truly are not in a position to alienate a potential player base. Not financially, at least. Unless they have one major backer that is hidden somewhere
And with a release date purportedly just a few short weeks away (this on the main page of this site alone), I can now see how others coming in to take a look for the first time.
Now, the question begs to be answered, what image do they want to truly present in light of this?
One player's great game is another players derisive snort!
http://www.darthmyr.com for free guild forums
Well said, I think that pretty much sums it up.
Them scolding their users for "losing hope" so to speak isn't the image they are looking for, I hope.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World