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Is there a specific reason why STO is launching now?
BattleFelon
Member UncommonPosts: 483
I just tried the beta and think that Cryptic has a few cool ideas, especially when it comes to space combat. However, this game screams of the same lack of polish and rushed work that plagued AOC and WAR.
Which makes me wonder: why is Cryptic launching STO in Feb instead of letting the project cook a little longer? I can see why AOC and WAR launched prematurely - they needed to beat the WOW expansion coming out only a few months later. From what I'm seeing, STO wouldn't face any real competition till fall 2010 when Cataclysm and possibly the SWTOR is scheduled.
I know a number of members of this site keep a close watch on industry trends, so I'm wondering if there's any word on the street about why Cryptic is rushing STO out the door.
Finally, I'm a little shocked that Cryptic is launching a big MMOG so soon after launching Champions. I know that two different teams are working on the project, but I'm not 100 percent convinced that a medium-sized company like Cryptic can pull this off.
Comments
The reason that any software house releases before the product is finished is that they need the revenue. They can't pay their software monkeys for long before they run out of money.
Plus, they know they have a guaranteed market because of the IP, so there is much less ROI for polishing the game.
I doubt the first responder is correct here as I've heard or seen nothing to lead me to think Cryptic is having financial problems leading to the launch, and while I don't know for sure I did see another post on here about STO and a rather informed poster eluded that Atari is forcing this release not Cryptic but again this is just speculation on my part because I don't know the person who posted that nor the source they got it from but I did just read her post today so it may not be too difficult to find on the STO board.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Hmm, interesting. I do know from some friends who used to work at Atari that the company is notorious for launching games too early, thereby dooming games that may have had a lot of potential. I was mainly just curious to see if there was some big launch that I wasn't aware of, or if Champions was such a huge failure they needed to recoup losses, etc.
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If we assume that no reasonable developer would launch an MMO before it was quite ready, and if we all agree that STO isn't really quite ready for release (no Klingon content being the most notable, yet its so close to being ready) then its fairly safe to assume there are financial reasons behind the early launch.
Most likely the new owners want to see the revenues start to come in before they invest a lot more cash into the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ATARI is the publisher not Cryptic. Its there decision to launch game.
Atari is the owner, but what was your point again? That they aren't a rational MMO developer, maybe not. that could be the issue, but fact remains, someone wants to see some revenue coming in now.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Atari is the owner, but what was your point again? That they aren't a rational MMO developer, maybe not. that could be the issue, but fact remains, someone wants to see some revenue coming in now.
My point being that people are targeting only Cryptic. No one talks about Atari as when to push the product out of doors is there decision.
Atari is the owner, but what was your point again? That they aren't a rational MMO developer, maybe not. that could be the issue, but fact remains, someone wants to see some revenue coming in now.
Because ATARI is 10 times worse then Electronic Arts and they have no clue whatsoever about MMO's and how make them succesful.
Just see what they did to Turbine alone with the whole DDO debacle and lawsuit going on.
They just treat MMO's like single player games. Just something to make a lot of cash as quickly as possible on. And then move on to the next profit.
ATARI has no long term goals and visions and never had. That's why they went almost bankrupt TWICE!
If Cryptic had the choice between ATARI and Electronic Arts. They would have been far better off going with EA. And that says something.
The fact, that Cryptic only got roughly 2 misserable years of development time for an MMO with one of the biggest and richest IP's of all time. Just shows what a total retards those suits at ATARI are!
Everyone that has any knowledge about MMO development, knows you CANNOT develop a succesful MMO in just 2 years!
A succesful high quality Single Player RPG game like Dragon Age or Oblivion already take that amount of time to develop!!
Cheers
Agreed, Atari is much worse than EA ( and I really hate to say that ). I was always PO'd at EA for buying up developers and IP's like candy, but historically, Atari has done much worse than EA in those regards. Unfortunately Atari has had no real direction as a company in years, actually more like decades.
Yes, its called "Hi, we're the publisher, we're not giving you any more money. Release by X or we're going to lose the license and can the game." Which, considering they had to take this thing over from the last dev, who likely lost control from not progressing much at all and likely had to have much of their work scrapped in the process, means Cryptic had about 2 years to suddenly put together the game from a few pre-assembles scraps. Just to keep things in perspective...
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
They need the money for yet another unfinished game. Gotta love some mmo developers these days. These are the kinds of developers that give the mmo genre a bad name.
Go for Final Fantasy XIV! Developer and publisher all-in-one!
Atari is the owner, but what was your point again? That they aren't a rational MMO developer, maybe not. that could be the issue, but fact remains, someone wants to see some revenue coming in now.
Because ATARI is 10 times worse then Electronic Arts and they have no clue whatsoever about MMO's and how make them succesful.
Just see what they did to Turbine alone with the whole DDO debacle and lawsuit going on.
They just treat MMO's like single player games. Just something to make a lot of cash as quickly as possible on. And then move on to the next profit.
ATARI has no long term goals and visions and never had. That's why they went almost bankrupt TWICE!
If Cryptic had the choice between ATARI and Electronic Arts. They would have been far better off going with EA. And that says something.
The fact, that Cryptic only got roughly 2 misserable years of development time for an MMO with one of the biggest and richest IP's of all time. Just shows what a total retards those suits at ATARI are!
Everyone that has any knowledge about MMO development, knows you CANNOT develop a succesful MMO in just 2 years!
A succesful high quality Single Player RPG game like Dragon Age or Oblivion already take that amount of time to develop!!
Cheers
Cryptic is just as much at fault. They seem to have been pushing this whole "develop cheap and quick" thing with CO and STO. Heck, besides actually polishing what is already there and improving already existing features some, I'm not sure Cryptic could do much better than what we have now. They've always have leaned towards pretty shallow games and have never shown a hint of being able to make anything with depth.
Atari is the owner, but what was your point again? That they aren't a rational MMO developer, maybe not. that could be the issue, but fact remains, someone wants to see some revenue coming in now.
Because ATARI is 10 times worse then Electronic Arts and they have no clue whatsoever about MMO's and how make them succesful.
Just see what they did to Turbine alone with the whole DDO debacle and lawsuit going on.
They just treat MMO's like single player games. Just something to make a lot of cash as quickly as possible on. And then move on to the next profit.
ATARI has no long term goals and visions and never had. That's why they went almost bankrupt TWICE!
If Cryptic had the choice between ATARI and Electronic Arts. They would have been far better off going with EA. And that says something.
The fact, that Cryptic only got roughly 2 misserable years of development time for an MMO with one of the biggest and richest IP's of all time. Just shows what a total retards those suits at ATARI are!
Everyone that has any knowledge about MMO development, knows you CANNOT develop a succesful MMO in just 2 years!
A succesful high quality Single Player RPG game like Dragon Age or Oblivion already take that amount of time to develop!!
Cheers
Cryptic is just as much at fault. They seem to have been pushing this whole "develop cheap and quick" thing with CO and STO. Heck, besides actually polishing what is already there and improving already existing features some, I'm not sure Cryptic could do much better than what we have now. They've always have leaned towards pretty shallow games and have never shown a hint of being able to make anything with depth.
They can't push anything out of doors until ATARI gives the green flag. Please atleast get your info right before blindly bashing Cryptic.
Its Atari not Cryptic
But, to be fair, every single MMO that has ever come out started out with bugs and missing content and no end game. Even your beloved WoW was nothing at launch, as it is today.
Atari is the owner, but what was your point again? That they aren't a rational MMO developer, maybe not. that could be the issue, but fact remains, someone wants to see some revenue coming in now.
Because ATARI is 10 times worse then Electronic Arts and they have no clue whatsoever about MMO's and how make them succesful.
Just see what they did to Turbine alone with the whole DDO debacle and lawsuit going on.
They just treat MMO's like single player games. Just something to make a lot of cash as quickly as possible on. And then move on to the next profit.
ATARI has no long term goals and visions and never had. That's why they went almost bankrupt TWICE!
If Cryptic had the choice between ATARI and Electronic Arts. They would have been far better off going with EA. And that says something.
The fact, that Cryptic only got roughly 2 misserable years of development time for an MMO with one of the biggest and richest IP's of all time. Just shows what a total retards those suits at ATARI are!
Everyone that has any knowledge about MMO development, knows you CANNOT develop a succesful MMO in just 2 years!
A succesful high quality Single Player RPG game like Dragon Age or Oblivion already take that amount of time to develop!!
Cheers
Cryptic is just as much at fault. They seem to have been pushing this whole "develop cheap and quick" thing with CO and STO. Heck, besides actually polishing what is already there and improving already existing features some, I'm not sure Cryptic could do much better than what we have now. They've always have leaned towards pretty shallow games and have never shown a hint of being able to make anything with depth.
They can't push anything out of doors until ATARI gives the green flag. Please atleast get your info right before blindly bashing Cryptic.
Cryptic started CO and STO BEFORE they joined Atari. They talked about how they were going to get them out super-quick BEFORE they joined Atari. This was the plan all along. Heck, maybe they joined Atari because they found they both had similar philosophies on games.
I think it's a safe bet that the early release is Atari's doing and not Cryptic's. What people always forget is how small a percentage of box sales MMO developers see; the largest chunk goes to the retailers, second to the publisher, and finally to the developer, leaving as little as 10-15% for Cryptic (I have no idea what kind of deal they have with Atari). Book deals and music deals work more or less the same way.
MMO developers make their money off subscribers, not box sales. If hundreds of thousands of people buy the game but don't subscribe after the first free month, Atari wins, Cryptic loses. Having played a character to lvl 16 in this beta. . . well, without forecasting doom and gloom, I do think Cryptic would be better off in the long run if they could wait six months. And I think they know that. And I think that's why they're pushing the lifetime subscription deal.
Truth.
I've been trolling this game a lot in the last few months but after trying the OB I must say it's not as shallow as I expected it to be.
It's actually fun game with lot of shit to customize.
You can fully customize (looks, gear and skills) your ship, char and 4 BOs, that's a lot of shit to customize.
Only that would probably keep me busy for much longer then 2 months (staying power that I predicted STO will have for the average MMOer.)
And the game play is fun, both space and ground.
I know the ground play has been criticized a lot but I see a big tactical potential for ground PVP considering you have 4 "pets" with many different skills/abilities on top of your own skills.
A lot of room for creative combat there.
So I can really see the potential and what could have been but the reality is the game is unfinished and rushed which always translates to a long term failure.
Once a game launches prematurely it can never catch up to the promissed design it just not how the world works.
So It's just another short term hit and run BS and it pisses me off because its STAR TREK FFS!, how can you screw THAT up.....really.
He/She/They (Atari or Cryptic) or whoever is to be blamed for rushing this out the door should be shot on a public square Cuban Revolution style and the design team should be given another year to finish the god damn game
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Gullermo touched on part of the possible reasons and I'd like to add a bit more.
First off, I don't know if it's true or not, but I had heard Cryptic was running out of time on the Star Trek license and so had to get the game out before the rights expired. If true, that may be the biggest reason.
Secondly, and this is what Guillermo mentioned, Atari may be the main pusher to get the game out early. Atari has done it with every MMO I've ever heard them being involved with. Atari IS being sued by Turbine for not fulfilling their part of DDO's contract, attempting to sabotage DDO at every opportunity, while secretly preparing a new competing D&D MMO. Now Atari is also being sued by Hasbro (owners of the actual D&D license) for secretly selling D&D European rights to Namco (Hasbro's biggest competitors).
So, being in two big lawsuits, along with possibly having to give back a lot of the Namco money they got, Atari may be needing as much emergency money as they can get their hands on just in case things go bad in these lawsuits.
As was said, this seems to be Atari's way of doing business. Invest as little as possible into making the game, push it out early to reduce costs, grab as much money from initial sales as possible, then flee, leaving the developing company holding the bag on the blowback caused by the buggy release.
DDO held on for 3+ years and is now doing alot better ONLY due to the tremendous efforts of Turbine and the loyalty of it's fans. If STO does indeed have a rocky road ahead it'll be Cryptic who has to save it, cause Atari will probably wash their hands of the game once it's launched (even though Cryptic is owned by Atari).
The answer is very simple. It is launching because of the contract agreement that Atari made with Paramount.
This was a rush job to save a failed game, with a deadline. The deadline has come, and it is time to roll it out.
It's because with any large software project most of the money comes from investors. When The development house gets the funding for a project hey need to sign contracts stating that they will deliver a final product by a set date. This is a pledge that the investors will start to see a return on their investment at a given date. No one in their right mind is going to invest millions of dollars into a project and say, "just finish it whenever". They enter into the investment with a legally binding contract stating that they will see a final product and start to see returns by a specific date.
Edit: This does not however totally absolve Cryptic of any mistakes in this regard. Cryptic's huge mistake in the case of STO (and CO for that matter) was seriously underestimating the time it would take them to deliver a final product. This was set by Cryptic and agreed to by the investors back when the project first started 2 years ago.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Well people seem to forget that Atari owns Cryptic. So its doesn't matter they are not just the publisher but they are the owners of Cryptic also. This wasn't a partnership or anything. Atari outright purchased Cryptic.
And the 2010 release date was already set by Cryptic before they where purchased by Atari. So I doubt Atari really had much to say on it other then do whatever you think is best. If you can make a early 2010 launch then go for it.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/atari-acquires-cryptic-studios
And I think the running low on funding is a good bet. They already have a MMO in development for a 2011 release date. So I imagine anything that can be made off STO will be pushed to finish development of the 2011 MMO. Then they are betting on a big turnout for the 2011 MMO to help continue funding / development of the other two MMOs.
I doubt STO will be a huge success. I imagine the 100k sub range will be a good bet. Most of the reviewers that have played the game for an extended period of time are already getting burned out on it. Just check out the Giantbomb open beta endurence run of the game. They are already starting to get burned out and thats just playing a hour a day on the game. They have already said its fallen into the standard / sub-standard MMO genre with rinse and repeat combat missions that feel like you are doing the same thing.
I picture a good 3-6 months of content development for the game they are going to push out over that time. Then it will end up like CO with little content planned and less going on in the game. Such a sad thing to see for such a great IP that could have been huge.
And to the poster that said WoW didn't have enough content at launch and had bugs. While it did have afew bugs most of WoW's issues purely had to do with overloaded servers. Something that noone could have forseen at the time. A game netting over a million subscriptions was simplely unheard of. And as far as the content goes. They had enough content to go from 1-60 and on top of that they had 1-30 content for each of the races. STO isn't even launching with 1/100th the content WoW had at launch. So if you want to do comparisons then lets put the facts out there. Cryptic has already stated that endgame content will follow afew months after release with the launch of "Borg Space" (That is the end game content). By that time most people will have been at level cap for several months. Heck most people will be at level cap within 3 weeks sitting there doing not alot besides some pvp.
I give STO credit because they do have some interesting quests in the game. But theres little there when you look at the whole picture and given Cryptic's track record there more then likely won't be alot there 6 months from now.
I also want to put out there that I think all of Cryptic's real talent and market knowhow was Positron and Lord Recluse. Both of them and most of the original Cryptic team stayed at NCSoft to form a new development studio within it. That might explain why Cryptic's CO and STO has turned out to be complete junk when its all said and done (my option).
Ok fair enough but... if you trying to make a long term game it would be a smart move to set a realistic deadline or at least sign a flexible contract where you can push the launch day for at least few months if it's needed (and it always is).
It really pisses me off that western companies just cant get their shit together when it comes to delivering a quality MMO.
Why would a company sign something they perfectly well know they cant deliver?
When will we ever again see a polished MMO launched (a must for a long term success) from a western company?
SW:TOR perhaps...last chance.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Ok fair enough but... if you trying to make a long term game it would be a smart move to set a realistic deadline or at least sign a flexible contract where you can push the launch day for at least few months if it's needed (and it always is).
It really pisses me off that western companies just cant get their shit together when it comes to delivering a quality MMO.
Why would a company sign something they perfectly well know they cant deliver?
When will we ever again see a polished MMO launched (a must for a long term success) from a western company?
SW:TOR perhaps...last chance.
Go back and read the edit I added while you were posting this.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}